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WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 07:27 PM
Well, here's the straight talk. I don't want to hear a single god-damn complaint or any crap for what I post here. I'm going to tell you all the truth and you can decide what to do with it.

As some of us have been saying for several months, you crazy assholes that are out there every day talking about "the truth about 9/11" and conspiracies, those of you who are so happy when a liberal says something even remotely nice about Ron Paul that you start advertising it to the world, and those of you who want to tell everyone that Ron Paul wants to legalize dope and prostitution... yea, you've blown all hope of Ron Paul winning the Republican primary.

I'm at the Presidency IV conference in Orlando. It's the Republican Party of Florida's big event (culminating in the debate tomorrow night). I've been talking to people all day. Most of them hardly know anything about Ron Paul except for what the COMPLETE FUCKING NUTS among us talk about. Yea, they all think he's a crazy guy that should be running as a democrat.

You can vote in all of the straw polls and give him all the money you have. It's not going to help. Ron Paul has been defeated by his own supporters.

To all the idiots that couldn't keep their fucking mouths shut and simply hand out literature (from the campaign - not your crazy shit), thanks a million! You've ensured that either Rudy or Hillary will be the next President of the United States...

Alabama Supporter
10-20-2007, 07:30 PM
hehe. I guess those guys will be supporting a pro-abortion Rudy?

bbachtung
10-20-2007, 07:30 PM
Thanks for the uplifting post.

With supporters like you who needs Giuliani?

Just because 4,000 party stalwarts in Florida don't like Ron Paul doesn't mean that the world is ending; Ron Paul gains new supporters every day.

SpicyItalian739
10-20-2007, 07:31 PM
I agree.

We were talking about if Birthday Cake Remix from Coldstone was the best ice cream, right?

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 07:32 PM
Thanks for the uplifting post.

With supporters like you who needs Giuliani?

Just because 4,000 party stalwarts in Florida don't like Ron Paul doesn't mean that the world is ending; Ron Paul gains new supporters every day.

Uplifting? You blame the messenger? How do you think I feel walking among the sea of Rudy and Mitt stickers and signs? Yea, it's pretty damn depressing...

TVMH
10-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Don't be such a defeatist, Will; besides, how do you know that the "9/11 connection" isn't being promulgated by agent provocateurs?

Keep your eyes on the prize. Don't get distracted by the negative reactions of those who've never heard of Dr. Paul, rather, do your best to correct these misunderstandings.

Stick with the constitutional aspect of Dr. Paul's political philosophy...it really does work.

SpicyItalian739
10-20-2007, 07:34 PM
Uplifting? You blame the messenger? How do you think I feel walking among the sea of Rudy and Mitt stickers and signs? Yea, it's pretty damn depressing...

If a few crazies had that much power over this campaign then it was too weak to win anyways. STOP admitting defeat, and get back to work.

How do you think Washington and his troops felt after the majority of them froze to death? Defeated, or did they push forward? We all know the answer, and we all benefit from the results.

ItsTime
10-20-2007, 07:34 PM
I guess you people in FL really dropped the ball if the 9/11 truth nut jobs are doing a better job at handing out their lit. The support here in NH is doing just fine.

I suggest people in FL work twice as hard now to fix the things they didnt do right in the first place.


Uplifting? You blame the messenger? How do you think I feel walking among the sea of Rudy and Mitt stickers and signs? Yea, it's pretty damn depressing...

winston_blade
10-20-2007, 07:35 PM
I understand what you mean. I think you're a little too angry though. Calm down a little. Now, I understand that 9/11 troofers get on everyone else's nerves, but we can't help what they do. RP has been officially separated from the 9/11 movement, even in the MSM. Not too much to worry about man. I think we still have a shot at winning, but to be honest, I never thought RP could win Florida anyway.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:36 PM
Will,

looks like I will see you up there tomorrow.
or are you even Will? I didn't know Will was going to Orlando I thought only Hector was :D

Noog
10-20-2007, 07:36 PM
I know the truthers don't help, but do your best to promote RP.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Don't be such a defeatist, Will; besides, how do you know that the "9/11 connection" isn't being promulgated by agent provocateurs?

Keep your eyes on the prize. Don't get distracted by the negative reactions of those who've never heard of Dr. Paul, rather, do your best to correct these misunderstandings.

Stick with the constitutional aspect of Dr. Paul's political philosophy...it really does work.

Two things: 1 - Many HAVE heard of him. The problem is that they've heard of him from the nuts among us. 2 - I AM talking about his adherance to the Constitution. I'm talking about TRUE conservatismn and the "republican platform". I'm NOT talking about the war, drugs, of black helicopters. None-the-less, the damage has already been done.

For the guy that thinks we can win the primary by ignoring the party - you're out of your mind. We MUST win over the "stalwarts". Those are the people that get MANY other people to vote. We will NEVER win unless we convince a large number of them that Ron Paul is not only sane but the right guy.

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 07:38 PM
Xanax time

bbachtung
10-20-2007, 07:38 PM
Keep in mind that this is a convention day for which each of the four speakers (McCain, Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson) paid $100,000 for the privilege of attending. The people who showed up there represent a tiny portion of Florida primary voters.

As for the Rudy and Romney bumper stickers and signs being everywhere, just imagine how the other guys' supporters feel when they are surrounded by RP fans at almost every other event? That should cheer you up.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Will,

looks like I will see you up there tomorrow.
or are you even Will? I didn't know Will was going to Orlando I thought only Hector was :D

I saw Hector at the rally. And yes, I am Will and I am at the convention. I'm looking forward to the debate tomorrow but I know I'm going to be pissed when they treat Dr. Paul like shit again...

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 07:39 PM
The only person killing any of Ron Pauls chances are the GOP themselves,and if they choose that route.Then we can watch the GOP flounder like a fish out of water.

RP Supporter
10-20-2007, 07:42 PM
A good chunk of Paul’s support will come from new and “unconventual” Republicans. He’s not going to be well liked by the traditional Republicans nearly as much. It’s important to keep in mind however, that the Traditional Republicans will be split seven different ways. Look at the Conservatives for example, how divided they are. But Libertarians as a group are largely, with perhaps some exceptions, united behind Ron Paul.

To sum it up: The people who attend those conventions are not the people the campaign is putting the highest emphasis on courting.

Still, I will agree that perhaps when trying to appeal to older and more traditional voters, chanting that 9/11 was an inside job or advocating pot legislation might not be the best recruiting tactic. For other audiences, however, these things might win people over. Just play to whatever crowd your in, and emphasize the positions of Dr. Paul that they’ll be more likely to be in agreement with.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:42 PM
I saw Hector at the rally. And yes, I am Will and I am at the convention. I'm looking forward to the debate tomorrow but I know I'm going to be pissed when they treat Dr. Paul like shit again...

I will be there tomorrow, I am still waiting on my shipment to arrive, so I don't have anything but what I have printed, want em to bring a stack of paper and my printer, or you have enough materials? :)

stevedasbach
10-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Will has told us what he's hearing. Don't shoot the messenger. Figure out how to use the information to better promote Dr. Paul.

brandon
10-20-2007, 07:48 PM
The "message" was extremely baised and filled with hate.

Try to open your mind a little Will, and not be a giant dick.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:49 PM
brandon,
he is telling what he is being told.

come on now, we have to change the persection, not reinforce it!

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 07:50 PM
Numbers 13

Moses Sends Spies into canaan

32And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

33And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.


Numbers 14

The peopel of Israel get scared becaause 10 spies said canaan was full of giants and great warriors

2And all the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron: and the whole congregation said unto them, Would God that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would God we had died in this wilderness!

God gets pissed, and promises, none of the complainers will see canaan, but promises still to deliver canaan to Joshua and Caleb, the two spies who saw the benefits of winning, and believed the battle would be worth it:

22Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;

23Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

tehn the peopel wake the next morning, and say "hey, lets go ahead and go in, but God says NO, because they slandered him for the last time. They are doomed

40And they rose up early in the morning, and gat them up into the top of the mountain, saying, Lo, we be here, and will go up unto the place which the LORD hath promised: for we have sinned.

41And Moses said, Wherefore now do ye transgress the commandment of the LORD? but it shall not prosper.

42Go not up, for the LORD is not among you; that ye be not smitten before your enemies.

Basically, what I am saying, is pack your shit, go home, and vote for Rudy.

I have seen canaan, and it is full of milk and honey, and you detractors can go to hell.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:52 PM
newend,

you are wrong, Will is actually providing motivation to correct the wrongs that are in place. not running scared. I will be joining to stand up and fight :)

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 07:52 PM
Will has told us what he's hearing. Don't shoot the messenger. Figure out how to use the information to better promote Dr. Paul.

People saying that stuff are brainwashed and just repeating the hit pieces they were forced to repeat after they watch 5 seconds of news.We need to focus on getting more positive news storys done for sure.

I understand what he is saying. These people are easily brainwashed,maybe we need to let the gop just die to be honest.Its not the poor people there,its THE GOP making a concerted effort to discredit Ron Paul. Heads need to be banged together,but if the GOP keeps this up,i hope they do lose. Registered Republican.

The best way to fight this mis information,is to hold the GOP accountable and remind them they will lose without us.I have no loyalty to the Republican Party.THE GOP has made it loud and clear.They will mock and misrepresent Ron Pauls Message.The GOP is creating there own noose.

The GOP has only one choice to save their party his name is RON PAUL. Thats how i would present my argument to hard headed brainwashed republicans.Give them a REALITY CHECK.

brandon
10-20-2007, 07:53 PM
He could have relayed the message without calling Paul supporters "COMPLETE FUCKING NUTS" and "crazy assholes"

And what was the message anyway? That the GOP doesn't know much about Paul? Wow thanks dude, we had no idea. Maybe now we will try to set up a grassroots effort to support paul or something, in light of this news you just brought to our attention for the first time.

LibertyEagle
10-20-2007, 07:53 PM
Don't be such a defeatist, Will; besides, how do you know that the "9/11 connection" isn't being promulgated by agent provocateurs?



I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing these kind of BS excuses. You know darn well that we don't need provocateurs. The We are Change people are perfect examples.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:53 PM
understand fully, we have to tell the good, not expand the bad :)


People saying that stuff are brainwashed and just repeating the hit pieces they were forced to repeat after they watch 5 seconds of news.We need to focus on getting more positive news storys done for sure.

I understand what he is saying. These people are easily brainwashed,maybe we need to let the gop just die to be honest.Its not the poor people there,its THE GOP making a concerted effort to discredit Ron Paul. Heads need to be banged together,but if the GOP keeps this up,i hope they do lose. Registered Republican.

Lord Xar
10-20-2007, 07:56 PM
I would like to hear from others in Miami. The people I have talked to regarding Ron Paul all support him for the issues, I have NOT come across any speaking 9/11 truther stuff and such....

So I am not really sure where you are coming from. "IF" these people "at" the convention ONLY know Ron Paul from Ron Paul supporters is VERY SUSPECT considering these people are "at" the convention therefore most likely watched the debates and seen for themselves that Ron Paul is not a weirdo... so I gotta tell you -- I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't match. ALSO, "IF" a Republican is supporting Ghouliani, then 'intelligence' is not in the forfront of their frontal lobes - you know what I mean.. other than his war stance, he is a complete democrate.

Also, for ANYBODY to say Ron is a Democrate is completely misinformed... and probably has no idea what a true republican is...

I don't know.. I am not calling you out -- but I will wait till I see and hear from another from the convention...

EvilTwinkie
10-20-2007, 07:57 PM
Dude youre in the belly of the beast, what do you expect. These are the people who were not level headed and unbiased to begin with. They were already going to vote Authoritarian or Neo-conservative. Do all of us really know every positive point about everyone running? I sure dont because Im partial to Paul. If i rationalize not voting for Giuliani because he wore a dress in a saturday night live skit, then I can imagine A fan of 9/11 Rudy not knowing anything about Paul other than the truthers like him. Not the fault of truthers dude, they wouldnt have voted for Paul anyway.

The goal is to build the party and convert the level headed folks and crowd out the Neo-conservatives, dont bother converting them. We dont represent them.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 07:58 PM
Lord Xar,

He's in orlando, not miami, but the Miami group is prety level headed, DEan is doing a good job.
However, there IS a truther group for ron paul as well, here outside of miami, have not personally met any of them.


I would like to hear from others in Miami. The people I have talked to regarding Ron Paul all support him for the issues, I have NOT come across any speaking 9/11 truther stuff and such....

So I am not really sure where you are coming from. "IF" these people "at" the convention ONLY know Ron Paul from Ron Paul supporters is VERY SUSPECT considering these people are "at" the convention therefore most likely watched the debates and seen for themselves that Ron Paul is not a weirdo... so I gotta tell you -- I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't match. ALSO, "IF" a Republican is supporting Ghouliani, then 'intelligence' is not in the forfront of their frontal lobes - you know what I mean.. other than his war stance, he is a complete democrate.

Also, for ANYBODY to say Ron is a Democrate is completely misinformed... and probably has no idea what a true republican is...

I don't know.. I am not calling you out -- but I will wait till I see and hear from another from the convention...

dircha
10-20-2007, 07:58 PM
Ron Paul said in the Human Events interview that those who really control the government are conspiring to form a North American Union against the will of the people, and that what we are seeing happen here today is just like what happened in Europe in the lead up to the European Union.

And as I recall Ron Paul said in the News Hour interview that the CIA functions essentially as a secretive shadow government and should be eliminated.

Now, he has said that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job, but I'm sorry, you're just not going to be able to market Ron Paul as a more conservative version of Fred Thompson, if that's what you're trying to do.

I think you need to sit down and think about what Ron Paul's candidacy means to YOU. And then you need to think about how you can frame your conservations with others to communicate his message effectively.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:00 PM
there is a difference in this, and just shouting people down as happens with many "truthers" its not a battle of who can shout the loudest, but who can win over the most votes!


Ron Paul said in the Human Events interview that those who really control the government are conspiring to form a North American Union against the will of the people, and that what we are seeing happen here today is just like what happened in Europe in the lead up to the European Union.

And as I recall Ron Paul said in the News Hour interview that the CIA functions essentially as a secretive shadow government and should be eliminated.

Now, he has said that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job, but I'm sorry, you're just not going to be able to market Ron Paul as a more conservative version of Fred Thompson, if that's what you're trying to do.

I think you need to sit down and think about what Ron Paul's candidacy means to YOU. And then you need to think about how you can frame your conservations with others to communicate his message effectively.

LibertyEagle
10-20-2007, 08:02 PM
He could have relayed the message without calling Paul supporters "COMPLETE FUCKING NUTS" and "crazy assholes"

And what was the message anyway? That the GOP doesn't know much about Paul? Wow thanks dude, we had no idea. Maybe now we will try to set up a grassroots effort to support paul or something, in light of this news you just brought to our attention for the first time.

Oh please. Don't act like this is the first time you've heard any of this. I have seen plenty of it on this board.

Like Will said, the damage is done. Can we just try not to compound it further and engage our brains a little more from here on out?

Frankly, I understand him being upset. I would imagine most of us would be if we were there working on the ground and hearing this stuff with our own ears. He just blew off some steam is all. No big deal.

Let's just figure out how to best move forward.

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Great Analogy NewEnd!

My Azz will be there in Orlando tomorrow . . .

I am SOOOOO Psyched!@!!!!!

P.S. As of Friday I BE A REPUBLICUN!!

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 08:04 PM
The "message" was extremely baised and filled with hate.

Try to open your mind a little Will, and not be a giant dick.

Biased? Hate? Give me a break! I'm a staunch supporter. Let me guess, you think I'm actually a Fox news guy working for Bush to infiltrate the Paulites? Stop huffing paint and actually pay attention to what's going on....

FloridaJohn
10-20-2007, 08:05 PM
Here's the thing most people forget about Florida. There's the peninsula, and there's the panhandle. I am a native of the panhandle, but I currently reside in north central Florida. The two parts are culturally distinct, and the Republican types that are probably at the Orlando convention forget that their brothers to the west have a much wider libertarian streak. Towns like Pensacola, Tallahassee and Panama City while not as large as Miami, will show some solid support for Congressman Paul that will surprise a lot of people. Northwest Florida is ripe for the picking if we can make people there aware of Ron Paul and his positions. His message of being left alone will resonate there - so don't forget that part of Florida when assessing the support in the state as a whole.

Dary
10-20-2007, 08:05 PM
>I don't want to hear a single god-damn complaint or any crap for what I post here.

Wow.

>Ron Paul has been defeated by his own supporters.

Yeah. It's over Will. You might as well go home.

>We will NEVER win unless we convince a large number of them that Ron Paul is not only sane but the right guy.

We lose, they lose. If you need to convince them of anything THAT is what you need to convince them of.

>The problem is that they've heard of him from the nuts among us.

I doubt that very much. They've heard it from Sean, Rush, Boortz and other radio wave liars who continually spew this nonsense even though Ron has repeatedly denied being a part of it.

Hang in there Will. Reinforcements are on their way.

Perry
10-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Well, here's the straight talk. I don't want to hear a single god-damn complaint or any crap for what I post here. I'm going to tell you all the truth and you can decide what to do with it.

As some of us have been saying for several months, you crazy assholes that are out there every day talking about "the truth about 9/11" and conspiracies, those of you who are so happy when a liberal says something even remotely nice about Ron Paul that you start advertising it to the world, and those of you who want to tell everyone that Ron Paul wants to legalize dope and prostitution... yea, you've blown all hope of Ron Paul winning the Republican primary.

I'm at the Presidency IV conference in Orlando. It's the Republican Party of Florida's big event (culminating in the debate tomorrow night). I've been talking to people all day. Most of them hardly know anything about Ron Paul except for what the COMPLETE FUCKING NUTS among us talk about. Yea, they all think he's a crazy guy that should be running as a democrat.

You can vote in all of the straw polls and give him all the money you have. It's not going to help. Ron Paul has been defeated by his own supporters.

To all the idiots that couldn't keep their fucking mouths shut and simply hand out literature (from the campaign - not your crazy shit), thanks a million! You've ensured that either Rudy or Hillary will be the next President of the United States...

Gee...it's amazing the official campaign hasn't "discovered" you yet.
I think you are the nut and I don't think you're helping the campaign much either.

ItsTime
10-20-2007, 08:06 PM
I have heard this a lot from people in FL. I want to know how did the truthers out move the Paul supporters? There are tons of truthers in my area of NH. However, I rarely hear anyone that has heard of Paul equate him with a truther. The first thing they bring up is his stance on taxes, which everyone loves!

What happened in FL to make this happen? Was it the 2000 election boiled over into 9/11 truthers? I could see that happening. But how did they get their message out and equating it with Paul before the Libertarians?


Oh please. Don't act like this is the first time you've heard any of this. I have seen plenty of it on this board.

Like Will said, the damage is done. Can we just try not to compound it further and engage our brains a little more from here on out?

Frankly, I understand him being upset. I would imagine most of us would be if we were there working on the ground and hearing this stuff with our own ears. He just blew off some steam is all. No big deal.

Let's just figure out how to best move forward.

mavtek
10-20-2007, 08:07 PM
Ok Will what you're saying is the crazy Neocon Republicans at that convention have been watching Bill O and Sean Hannity religiously and believe that Ron is a 9/11 truther. Did they also believe that what we are doing in Iraq is the correct course? When you asked them about the WMD's that were never found did they tell you we'll find them eventually? Did they tell you we have to spend the next 50 years squashing Islamo Fascism? Did they say Iraqi's are better off now cause they are free? Did they say Ron Paul blamed 9/11 on us?

As George Carlin would say "Holy Shit!"

And you think 9/11 truthers are nuts?

It was my impression that we were going into this knowing we weren't going to get the Neocon vote. Was I incorrect? I was under the impression we were to be going after the moderate to independent Republicans, Libertarians, and a few Democrats? If we have 5 people running we need 25% of the vote, and we can get that by getting those Apathetic off the couches.

SO GET TO WORK!

LibertyEagle
10-20-2007, 08:08 PM
Ron Paul said in the Human Events interview that those who really control the government are conspiring to form a North American Union against the will of the people, and that what we are seeing happen here today is just like what happened in Europe in the lead up to the European Union.

And as I recall Ron Paul said in the News Hour interview that the CIA functions essentially as a secretive shadow government and should be eliminated.

Now, he has said that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job, but I'm sorry, you're just not going to be able to market Ron Paul as a more conservative version of Fred Thompson, if that's what you're trying to do.

I think you need to sit down and think about what Ron Paul's candidacy means to YOU. And then you need to think about how you can frame your conservations with others to communicate his message effectively.

Actually dircha, nothing that Ron has said is any more controversial than what Phyllis Schlafly, an old Right stalwart, has been saying for years! Nor, is it any more controversial than what Barry Goldwater said, way back in 1964. The only difference is that Ron needs to explain his position a little better. He did much better at this at the Values Voter Summit.

The thing we must not do is to put words in his mouth and saddle him with positions that he does not hold. We darn sure don't want our actions to be more of a detriment than they are a benefit. I know none of us wants that.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 08:10 PM
Lord Xar,

He's in orlando, not miami, but the Miami group is prety level headed, DEan is doing a good job.
However, there IS a truther group for ron paul as well, here outside of miami, have not personally met any of them.


Actually, Dean is NOT level-headed. As a matter of a fact, he was mentioned at my table during the Governor's luncheon. The vice-mayor of Miami Lakes was telling me that "this guy came to a meeting and was saying all kinds of crazy stuff". When I asked her the guys name, she said Dean. I've talked to Dean several times and read several of his emails - he's nuts. At one point he was sending emails to everyone trying to get them to support a Kusinich bill calling for the impeachment of Vice President Cheney. Ron Pauls name was mentioned in every email. Furthermore, Dean is telling everyone that he's running for Congress as a "Ron Paul democrat". The party people from Miami think he's as crazy as Charlie Manson...

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 08:11 PM
understand fully, we have to tell the good, not expand the bad :)

I Agree ,but if it gets to the point where you cant,then we have to pull out the Heavy Artillery;) in the end if the GOP turns their backs on Ron Paul,then i know im turning my backs on the GOP;)

UCFGavin
10-20-2007, 08:12 PM
i'm in the orlando meetup groups and whatnot and while i'm not as active as i would like to be, i haven't met any truthers.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:13 PM
hrm, I have only met him once and gotten some mails, none were bad I have only been a member for a short time however.

learn something all the time :)

Actually, Dean is NOT level-headed. As a matter of a fact, he was mentioned at my table during the Governor's luncheon. The vice-mayor of Miami Lakes was telling me that "this guy came to a meeting and was saying all kinds of crazy stuff". When I asked her the guys name, she said Dean. I've talked to Dean several times and read several of his emails - he's nuts. At one point he was sending emails to everyone trying to get them to support a Kusinich bill calling for the impeachment of Vice President Cheney. Ron Pauls name was mentioned in every email. Furthermore, Dean is telling everyone that he's running for Congress as a "Ron Paul democrat". The party people from Miami think he's as crazy as Charlie Manson...

TVMH
10-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Two things: 1 - Many HAVE heard of him. The problem is that they've heard of him from the nuts among us. 2 - I AM talking about his adherance to the Constitution. I'm talking about TRUE conservatismn and the "republican platform". I'm NOT talking about the war, drugs, of black helicopters. None-the-less, the damage has already been done.

For the guy that thinks we can win the primary by ignoring the party - you're out of your mind. We MUST win over the "stalwarts". Those are the people that get MANY other people to vote. We will NEVER win unless we convince a large number of them that Ron Paul is not only sane but the right guy.

1) For those that have heard of him and have an incorrect understanding of his philosophy, it becomes encumbent upon you to set them straight. If they refuse to listen to reason and logic, I see no reason to waste time with them...they would likely never vote for Dr. Paul anyway.

2) I know item #2 wasn't addressed to me, but I don't think Dr. Paul's major support is going to come from the stalwarts; this is a losing battle, IMO, because I would imagine that the stalwarts are all for bigger government, as long as they get to call the shots.

Once again, keep your eye on the target...the target is not people will not listen to reason...the target is people who are fed up with "politics as usual"...what was the turnout in the last general election? Something like 25%?

I understand your frustration, as I have felt that same frustration myself; but I no longer get frustrated because I don't waste my time with people who won't listen to reason.

Lord Xar
10-20-2007, 08:14 PM
For clarification, 'that dean' is not ME - hahhahaha, as my name is also Dean.

Well, listen.... Will, I have no fault with you and what you are experiencing.. but what you are saying is what the MSM says and we do have some kooks among us... but what can be done.. I mean, what were you doing at that table? where you representing Ron Paul?

I think that if people want to form opinions based on what some kook says, what can you do... if ANYBODY YOUTUBED RON PAUL or went to his site, they'd see what he is about...

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 08:15 PM
So eh . . . if I'm interviewed tomorrow . . . it's ixnay on the Ilding seven Bay?

Can I talk about the Jesuit's sinking of the Titanic?

C'mon . . . there gotta be ONE conspiracy to add some zest to the mix???!!!???

Dary
10-20-2007, 08:15 PM
I want to know how did the truthers out move the Paul supporters?

They haven't.


What happened in FL to make this happen?

It hasn't.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:16 PM
They haven't.



It hasn't.

sounds like it has in certain areas :(

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Well i can give a list of crazy people right in the GOP ,they are republicans.Does that make all republicans crazy???

Maybe we should be passing out straight jackets to these republicans at his table;) Crazy people calling people crazy hmmmm,sounds like some republicans need some padded rooms..

LibertyEagle
10-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Actually, Dean is NOT level-headed. As a matter of a fact, he was mentioned at my table during the Governor's luncheon. The vice-mayor of Miami Lakes was telling me that "this guy came to a meeting and was saying all kinds of crazy stuff". When I asked her the guys name, she said Dean. I've talked to Dean several times and read several of his emails - he's nuts. At one point he was sending emails to everyone trying to get them to support a Kusinich bill calling for the impeachment of Vice President Cheney. Ron Pauls name was mentioned in every email. Furthermore, Dean is telling everyone that he's running for Congress as a "Ron Paul democrat". The party people from Miami think he's as crazy as Charlie Manson...

Who is this "Dean" you're talking about? :confused:

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Ok, many of you didn't fully read what I posted. I'm not ONLY talking about the truthers. I'm also talking about the other people that try to promote Ron Paul using the most libertarian issues such as the legalization of drugs and prostitution, hemp, and all the other things that the olrder, more conservtive folks don't agree with. We COULD have been talking about the Constitution, his honesty, his service, and so MANY other qualities that the social conservatives and older people relate to and respect. Instead, so many of "us" talk about the more radical issues and completely alienate the people that we REALLY need to win this thing.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Who is this "Dean" you're talking about? :confused:

it is one of the FL meetup organizers, it was somewhat of an inside chat between Will and I, shoudl have called the name in PM only. But that is done now....

TruckinMike
10-20-2007, 08:18 PM
I've already turned my back on the GOP --- I'm with Ron Paul, or going down with the ship. I will NEVER vote for one of those SOB's again!

Truckinmike, stock up on ammo, we may need it..:eek::D:eek:

Its like gold, the prices have tripled in the past year and a half. You could by south African 308 surplus for 15 cents a round, now its 55cents around!!! It can be used as barter for the coming collapse ....tin foil not included.:D

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 08:22 PM
Well i can give a list of crazy people right in the GOP ,they are republicans.Does that make all republicans crazy???


A Friggin MEN!!!

It's okay for the Neocons to threaten to turn Iran into a Sea Of Glass but god forbid we seek the truth about an event that's 'Official Report' stinks to high heaven!!

Nobody despises people for still looking into the Kennedy asassination, in fact it's become a religion for some.

In fact, Joe Scarborough compared Ron Paul to Bobby Kennedy Thursday because HE SPOKE OUT!!!

Trassin
10-20-2007, 08:23 PM
Is there any way we can just lock the truthers in a dungeon somewhere for about the next 3 months or so? I hear the CIA has a really neat program set up that we might be able to borrow. ;)

michaelwise
10-20-2007, 08:25 PM
Any sane individual, or or person with an IQ higher than 75, should realize that Ron Paul is not Santa Clause, and will not deliver to them everything on their wish list. What He will guarantee is Secure Borders, and an End to the Iraq War. Isn't that enough?

partypooper
10-20-2007, 08:27 PM
Instead, so many of "us" talk about the more radical issues and completely alienate the people that we REALLY need to win this thing.

so do you think that, in florida, perception of dr paul among relevant population (i.e. mainstream republicans) is beyond repair?

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 08:28 PM
Is there any way we can just lock the truthers in a dungeon somewhere for about the next 3 months or so? I hear the CIA has a really neat program set up that we might be able to borrow. ;)

Wrong century Pope Trassin!

richard1984
10-20-2007, 08:28 PM
Well, here's the straight talk. I don't want to hear a single god-damn complaint or any crap for what I post here. I'm going to tell you all the truth and you can decide what to do with it.

As some of us have been saying for several months, you crazy assholes that are out there every day talking about "the truth about 9/11" and conspiracies, those of you who are so happy when a liberal says something even remotely nice about Ron Paul that you start advertising it to the world, and those of you who want to tell everyone that Ron Paul wants to legalize dope and prostitution... yea, you've blown all hope of Ron Paul winning the Republican primary.

I'm at the Presidency IV conference in Orlando. It's the Republican Party of Florida's big event (culminating in the debate tomorrow night). I've been talking to people all day. Most of them hardly know anything about Ron Paul except for what the COMPLETE FUCKING NUTS among us talk about. Yea, they all think he's a crazy guy that should be running as a democrat.

You can vote in all of the straw polls and give him all the money you have. It's not going to help. Ron Paul has been defeated by his own supporters.

To all the idiots that couldn't keep their fucking mouths shut and simply hand out literature (from the campaign - not your crazy shit), thanks a million! You've ensured that either Rudy or Hillary will be the next President of the United States...

[yeah...here's my "edit":]

I'm sorry, but this is what I want to say:

F*ck you!!!
You're a p*ssy-*ss b*tch who can't stand on your own two feet!
You're a quitter, you're a p*ssy, and you s*ck.

If people have that impression then set them straight!!!!
Don't implode like some weak-*ss f*got!

Stand up to those who are WRONG and tell them so!
If YOU know that they're wrong, then let them know!

Stop blaming us, and find out where they got their inane ideas!

Don't wuss out like some p*ssy-*ss f*got!

I'm sorry...I'm not usually such an *ssh*le, but this is a pathetic, wussy post.

Grow up, bro!

Stand up for your rights!!!

Sounds to me like you're giving in to what people tell you.
Sounds to me like you're weak.
Sounds to me like you're blaming every one but yourself--the one who was actually there and who could have actually changed people's minds!!

So buck-up dude.
Stop being a little girl!

You're so much worse than all of those "conspiracy" theorists....
At least they have balls...p*ssy....

(Again...your post just rubbed me the wrong way. You PISSED ME OFF, bro!!!! :mad: ...you sound like a p*ssy to me.... :mad:)



I love ya!!!

GO RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D


(edit: I'm going to edit this here soon.... I feel bad for posting such a shitty-ass post. Please forgive me...:D)


People who don't feel compelled to ARGUE AGAINST THE RETARDED NEOCONS aren't worth their weight in dirt....
Let's play make-believe: Let's all make-believe that we're "Ron Paul"! Then we might make some progress!!!
(and I don't care if I get banned...this is pathetic....)

Dary
10-20-2007, 08:28 PM
We COULD have been talking about the Constitution, his honesty, his service, and so MANY other qualities that the social conservatives and older people relate to and respect. Instead, so many of "us" talk about the more radical issues and completely alienate the people that we REALLY need to win this thing.

Will, do you think that Ron's position on these issues would have never come out anyway. Maybe it is good that they are out there in the open now so that we can go about the business of helping those out who don’t understand the greater significance and why Ron takes the position that he does on these issues.

I’ve seen previous debates where Ron was asked questions regarding these controversial issues and he never backed down from his positions.

Keep the faith man. In many ways (even with all the work we’ve done) were are only just getting started.

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 08:30 PM
Group Hug and spread the love,if not ill tazer you all and throw flowers;)

reaver
10-20-2007, 08:31 PM
Any sane individual, or or person with an IQ higher than 75, should realize that Ron Paul is not Santa Clause, and will not deliver to them everything on their wish list. What He will guarantee is Secure Borders, and an End to the Iraq War. Isn't that enough?

I don't wanna pay taxes to the UN through the treaty named LOST.

TVMH
10-20-2007, 08:32 PM
I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing these kind of BS excuses. You know darn well that we don't need provocateurs. The We are Change people are perfect examples.

I'm not sure you get my meaning when I say "agent provocateurs".

I am talking about people from the "opposition" posing as supporters of Dr. Paul and spouting ridiculous positions in order to discredit Dr. Paul (much the same was as COINTELPRO was rumored to have done).

thomj76
10-20-2007, 08:33 PM
We have some people heading down tomorrow (including me). Don't hate on Will, he is just calling it like he sees it. Florida is in a weird place right now. We are effectively 3/4's disenfranchised (no Demo delegates, and only 1/2 GOP delegates). The information that is given out in Florida is representative also of a huge NY displacement (snowbirds). Consequently, it is rife with rudybots. It doesn't take a headbone scientist to know that how we have to approach things in Florida is different than how it is done in NH.

My point is this: Know your audience. Grab people's attention with things that 80% of people will agree with. Ron Paul has never voted to raise taxes. Ron Paul has never voted for an unbalanced budget. He is a military veteran, and as an OBGYN has delivered over 4,000 babies. His position in a nutshell is that he does not vote for things that are unconstitutional.

If you get real specific without knowing your audience, then the chances increase that they will not know what you are talking about, or will disagree with the statement.

Be respectful, thoughtful, balanced, and follow through.

me3
10-20-2007, 08:33 PM
richard1984, that's way out of line. On a public forum representing Dr. Paul's grassroots. Is that how you want people who come to this forum for the first time to see us?

Stuff like that should be sent by PM.

I want Ron Paul to win, but all of the self-indulgent people are doing their damnedest to make it hard.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm not sure you get my meaning when I say "agent provocateurs".

I am talking about people from the "opposition" posing as supporters of Dr. Paul and spouting ridiculous positions in order to discredit Dr. Paul (much the same was as COINTELPRO was rumored to have done).

yes it was understood, and you are wrong, there are many legit supports that spout this endlessly.

Alabama Supporter
10-20-2007, 08:34 PM
LMAO Richard 1984.

Will, I wouldn't expect the GOP establishment in Florida to even like Ron Paul. These people are for Rudy and Mitt because those are the guys that will line their wallets.

RP has launched a new ad campaign to really define his candidacy, and I think they will be successful in carving out his image with the ad buys.

michaelwise
10-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Ron Paul Is Not Santa Clause! Everybody's not going to get what they want! What everybody will get is; Secure Borders, and an End to the Iraq War! Isn't that enough?

Trassin
10-20-2007, 08:38 PM
Wrong century Pope Trassin!

Hehe, Pope Trassin. First thing I would do is open up the Vatican's secret archives to every theologian who wanted to take a look. Then I would sit back and watch Christianity break into a million different sects and collapse upon itself.

Edit: I take that back, first thing I would do is lock all the truthers up in a dungeon for the next 3 months, then I would do the other.

TVMH
10-20-2007, 08:43 PM
Ok, many of you didn't fully read what I posted. I'm not ONLY talking about the truthers. I'm also talking about the other people that try to promote Ron Paul using the most libertarian issues such as the legalization of drugs and prostitution, hemp, and all the other things that the olrder, more conservtive folks don't agree with. We COULD have been talking about the Constitution, his honesty, his service, and so MANY other qualities that the social conservatives and older people relate to and respect. Instead, so many of "us" talk about the more radical issues and completely alienate the people that we REALLY need to win this thing.

You can stop that notion dead in it's tracks by saying that no power will be taken from the states with regard to dealing with the drug problem, the prostitution problem, or whatever other kind of problem.

SpicyItalian739
10-20-2007, 08:43 PM
I'm sorry, but this is what I want to say:

Fuck you!!!
You're a pussy-ass bitch who can't stand on your own two feet!
You're a quitter, you're a pussy, and you suck.

If people have that impression then set them straight!!!!
Don't implode like some weak-ass fagot!

Stand up to those who are WRONG and tell them so!
If YOU know that they're wrong, then let them know!

Stop blaming us, and find out where they got their inane ideas!

Don't wuss out like some pussy-ass fagot!

I'm sorry...I'm not usually such an asshole, but this is a pathetic, wussy post.

Grow up, bro!

Stand up for your rights!!!

Sounds to me like you're giving in to what people tell you.
Sounds to me like you're weak.
Sounds to me like you're blaming every one but yourself--the one who was actually there and who could have actually changed people's minds!!

So buck-up dude.
Stop being a little girl!

You're so much worse than all of those "conspiracy" theorists....
At least they have balls...pussy....

(Again...your post just rubbed me the wrong way. You PISSED ME OFF, bro!!!! :mad: ...you sound like a pussy to me.... :mad:)



I love ya!!!

GO RON PAUL!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D


(edit: I'm going to edit this here soon.... I feel bad for posting such a shitty-ass post. Please forgive me...:D)

How dare you call somebody a little girl

fj45lvr
10-20-2007, 08:45 PM
WILL

Thanks for the report....I feel for ya and completely understand...

My grandpa was one to always use the saying about a few rotten apples spoiling the barrel...This is unfortunately a TRUTH....to bad that Paul suffers from the hands of ignorant dope fiends. This is not the first time nor the last.

There is still some hope that we can split the vote (our only real hope to begin with).

Keep up fighting for something that exists with or without RON PAUL.

LibertyEagle
10-20-2007, 08:48 PM
I'm not sure you get my meaning when I say "agent provocateurs".

I am talking about people from the "opposition" posing as supporters of Dr. Paul and spouting ridiculous positions in order to discredit Dr. Paul (much the same was as COINTELPRO was rumored to have done).

Yeah, I got your meaning. You are just wrong is all.

TVMH
10-20-2007, 08:48 PM
yes it was understood, and you are wrong, there are many legit supports that spout this endlessly.

So you are saying that there are no provocateurs?

I am not disagreeing that some of the more outspoken "truthers" cast Dr. Paul in a negative light, but I do not believe that there are absolutely NO provocateurs.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:50 PM
So you are saying that there are no provocateurs?

I am not disagreeing that some of the more outspoken "truthers" cast Dr. Paul in a negative light, but I do not believe that there are absolutely NO provocateurs.

there is no need for them, stop thinking there is. stand up when they speak and make sure it is known that it is not the campaign's position. Free speech is fine and all, but we have the right to correct the error in their ways as well :D

inflamesdjk02
10-20-2007, 08:52 PM
I am a staunch Ron Paul supporter here in Miami, and I haven't observed much support around town while driving around, etc. I also see the same 150 people every day in class (professional school - I'm in my mid-twenties) and everyone knows me as "the big Ron Paul supporter". Actually, I've convinced about 4 others to vote for RP to date. There are some more Obama supporters that I think I can win over after they realize that he's not going to change a damn thing and turn the healthcare system into ruins.

Keep working hard, that's all we can do. It's a shame that humanity can be so fickle. But I haven't given up, and I plan on fighting until the end, whether in victory or in defeat.

fj45lvr
10-20-2007, 08:53 PM
maybe this will cheer you up considering "nut jobs" ....

At least Paul wasn't marching in this Parade: http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/rudypride.jpg

Fight the good fight.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:54 PM
fj45lvr,

that goes over just fine here, honestly.....

This is big rudy country sadly, the GOP and even the libs are entraled with WAR from what I see.

Trassin
10-20-2007, 08:55 PM
maybe this will cheer you up considering "nut jobs" ....

At least Paul wasn't marching in this Parade: http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/rudypride.jpg

Fight the good fight.

While I personally couldn't care less about Rudy being in that parade is there any way we can forward this picture to every christian newspaper / magazine in the country? After his poor showing this weekend it might just get printed a few more times.

ross11988
10-20-2007, 08:56 PM
This is complete BS, we in the truth movement NEVER mix 9/11 truth and Ron Paul. I want you to find a picture or video of us doing that and I'll take this comment back. Even on the Loose Change forums we have stated that at the Philly Rally if someone even dares to bring a 9/11 truth sign that we will "have their ass thrown out, thats not us".

steph3n
10-20-2007, 08:57 PM
This is complete BS, we in the truth movement NEVER mix 9/11 truth and Ron Paul. I want you to find a picture or video of us doing that and I'll take this comment back. Even on the Loose Change forums we have stated that at the Philly Rally if someone even dares to bring a 9/11 truth sign that we will "have their ass thrown out, thats not us".

very glad to hear, it isn't happening everywhere however.

TVMH
10-20-2007, 08:57 PM
there is no need for them, stop thinking there is. stand up when they speak and make sure it is known that it is not the campaign's position. Free speech is fine and all, but we have the right to correct the error in their ways as well :D

Y'all are misinterpreting my "argument".

I asked: "How do you know these are not agent provocateurs?"

I maintain that you don't know this...you can't possibly know that there are no agent provocateurs.

What I find even more confusing is that when y'all state that serious supporters damage Dr. Paul's image and I agree with you, I am still wrong.

Explain please.

Roxi
10-20-2007, 09:01 PM
have you ever thought maybe they aren't hearing this shit from insane supporters but from the news? i have over 140 people in my group, and quite a few truthers, NONE of them associate RP with the 9/11 stuff they leave it at home
NONE of the truthers i have met going around to the general public talking about ron paul and 9/11 truth at the same time SO I can hardly believe that all these people at this convention just happen to have all talked to the FEW 9/11 truthers that do mix the two issues.

as for spreading word to the world that a libertarian was praising ron paul? WTF i don't get it? why WOULDN'T we want people to know that ALL kinds of people in different parties love ron paul?

and RP will have a hard time in fla anyway with jeb still running things

Trassin
10-20-2007, 09:01 PM
...we in the truth movement NEVER mix 9/11 truth and Ron Paul...

Apparently the truther I saw handing out Ron Paul slim-jims and talking about 9/11 truther websites at the same time didn't get the message.

You should avoid speaking in absolutes, Ross. The is almost always an exception to the rule.

Edit: Roxi (right above me) is right though. Most of the "tinfoil hat" stuff is a result of the media. I know that in my experience the most damaging thing has been the miss quotes stated at the different debates. Over and over again I hear "Ron Paul wants to get rid of the CIA and FBI" or "Ron Paul says that 9/11 is our fault".

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:02 PM
jeb is gone, Charlie "christ" is in :D


have you ever thought maybe they aren't hearing this shit from insane supporters but from the news? i have over 140 people in my group, and quite a few truthers, NONE of them associate RP with the 9/11 stuff they leave it at home
NONE of the truthers i have met going around to the general public talking about ron paul and 9/11 truth at the same time SO I can hardly believe that all these people at this convention just happen to have all talked to the FEW 9/11 truthers that do mix the two issues.

as for spreading word to the world that a libertarian was praising ron paul? WTF i don't get it? why WOULDN'T we want people to know that ALL kinds of people in different parties love ron paul?

and RP will have a hard time in fla anyway with jeb still running things

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:02 PM
So now I'm a "pussy - little girl" because I've told you what I see among the "stalwart" Republicans in Florida? You're exactly the kind of moron I'm talking about. You refuse to face the reality that, in order for Ron Paul to be President, he MUST win over a good portion of the base of the REPUBLICAN party and he'll NEVER do that with people talking about all of the radica and/or fringe topics that they like to ENDLESSLY jabber about. People like you however seem to be wearing what I like to call "logic and reality repellant".

SWATH
10-20-2007, 09:02 PM
UH OH time for plan B
http://www.odcmp.com/images/web_images/M1poster.gif

mavtek
10-20-2007, 09:04 PM
Ok Will what you're saying is the crazy Neocon Republicans at that convention have been watching Bill O and Sean Hannity religiously and believe that Ron is a 9/11 truther. Did they also believe that what we are doing in Iraq is the correct course? When you asked them about the WMD's that were never found did they tell you we'll find them eventually? Did they tell you we have to spend the next 50 years squashing Islamo Fascism? Did they say Iraqi's are better off now cause they are free? Did they say Ron Paul blamed 9/11 on us?

As George Carlin would say "Holy Shit!"

And you think 9/11 truthers are nuts?

It was my impression that we were going into this knowing we weren't going to get the Neocon vote. Was I incorrect? I was under the impression we were to be going after the moderate to independent Republicans, Libertarians, and a few Democrats? If we have 5 people running we need 25% of the vote, and we can get that by getting those Apathetic off the couches.

SO GET TO WORK!

michaelwise
10-20-2007, 09:04 PM
Ron Paul is not a Magician! He can't wave a magic wand and give everybody, and all the fringe groups everything they want. As President of the Executive branch, He can enforce the immigration laws, and end the Iraq War. Does anyone with a modicum of intelligence, understand this?

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Umm... were those Ron Paul people I saw in a video hanging out with "Code Pink" in an anti-war rally? Do you think that they helped win over any Republican voters? If I'm not mistaken, we're trying to win the PRIMARY and in order to do that, we need REPUBLICANS to vote. I don't care if they ARE neocons - we NEED TO CONVINCE THEM THAT PAUL IS RIGHT! We'll never do that by hanging out with organizations like Code Pink or 9/11 truthers...

jcbraithwaite7
10-20-2007, 09:05 PM
I was there tonight. I missed Rudy but caught McCain, Romney and Thompson. I understand where Will is coming from. We have our work cut out for us on many fronts.. not just the brainwashed GOP party loyalists. I think we all have to realize that different types of supporters will appeal to different types of voters... and turn off some voters. Some people are more cut out for the stuffy Republican meetings. I think the best way to support Dr. Paul at these events is to dress nice, act nice, be articulate and courteous. I clapped at pro-American, small governtment comments by the other candidates to show that is what I also support. I didn't boo. I only gagged a little bit during Mitt Romney's wife's gushing about how nice and good everyone is in American (it was really over the top and Mitt is like Guy Smiley the game show host on Sesame Street)

My observations from tonight:

There were more Ron Paul signs than I thought there would be. I didn't see any Tancredo, Huckabee or Hunter signs.

I didn't hear any ugly comments. Actually, as I was getting off the bus a young guy asked if Ron Paul was coming. I said, "He didn't speak tonight because it cost $100,000 to get the opportunity to speak for 5 minutes but he will be at the debate." He said, "A lot of guys on my campus are really big Ron Paul fans." I told him to check him out online.

The other thing I noted was that many people had stickers for 3 different candidates. There are many people who haven't commited to a candidate. One guy asked us about Ron Paul and for a slim jim. He said he hasn't decided. My theory is when in Rome. If you are at Bonaroo... well... talk about things someone at Bonaroo would like- liberty, pot legalization, privacy and getting out of Iraq. When in a snake pit of neocon vipers who are all fretting about Hilary well... talk about what appeals to them. Dr. Pauls fiscally conservative record, humble foreign policy and when it comes down to Iraq... I don't take a stand (I don't want to get in that debate with anyone) what I say is, "If 70% of the country wants us out of there then is 70% of the country going to get behind a pro-war candidate? I also say, "I want to be on vacation but if I don't have the money to do it well... I don't go."

Heck, I support Ron Paul and think some of my fellow supporters are nuts.. that is the great thing about the campaign. He appeals to so many people on so many levels.

One thing I learned in sales is don't oversell. Ron Paul sells himself... plant the seed and it will grow. Preaching for 45 minutes on Habeus Corpus, NAU and imperial hubris and you will lose someone. Get your points down to a few soundbytes. The hispanic cashier at the hotel deli said, "Oh... you support Ron Paul... why?" I said, "He will restore The Constitution." he looked a bit lost.. then I said, "He wants to get us out of Iraq." His face lit up and I joked that none of the other folks here want to do that.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I think even without Ron Paul signs, badges etc. at the debate we will have a strong Ron Paul showing. And after we brave the snake bit everyone should head to One Eyed Jack downtown and party with like minded folks! Truthers are doing a disservice to the campaign but that just means we need even more people to join these clubs, attend party meetings and even get elected to executive committees to prove to the party that Ron Paul is conservative and his supporters are REAL Republicans.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:11 PM
Good overview!

I think in the end Will was saying the same thing here, but he was more depressed and letting some anger set in.
WE can all get over that, and move forward for Dr Paul!

I was there tonight. I missed Rudy but caught McCain, Romney and Thompson. I understand where Will is coming from. We have our work cut out for us on many fronts.. not just the brainwashed GOP party loyalists. I think we all have to realize that different types of supporters will appeal to different types of voters... and turn off some voters. Some people are more cut out for the stuffy Republican meetings. I think the best way to support Dr. Paul at these events is to dress nice, act nice, be articulate and courteous. I clapped at pro-American, small governtment comments by the other candidates to show that is what I also support. I didn't boo. I only gagged a little bit during Mitt Romney's wife's gushing about how nice and good everyone is in American (it was really over the top and Mitt is like Guy Smiley the game show host on Sesame Street)

My observations from tonight:

There were more Ron Paul signs than I thought there would be. I didn't see any Tancredo, Huckabee or Hunter signs.

I didn't hear any ugly comments. Actually, as I was getting off the bus a young guy asked if Ron Paul was coming. I said, "He didn't speak tonight because it cost $100,000 to get the opportunity to speak for 5 minutes but he will be at the debate." He said, "A lot of guys on my campus are really big Ron Paul fans." I told him to check him out online.

The other thing I noted was that many people had stickers for 3 different candidates. There are many people who haven't commited to a candidate. One guy asked us about Ron Paul and for a slim jim. He said he hasn't decided. My theory is when in Rome. If you are at Bonaroo... well... talk about things someone at Bonaroo would like- liberty, pot legalization, privacy and getting out of Iraq. When in a snake pit of neocon vipers who are all fretting about Hilary well... talk about what appeals to them. Dr. Pauls fiscally conservative record, humble foreign policy and when it comes down to Iraq... I don't take a stand (I don't want to get in that debate with anyone) what I say is, "If 70% of the country wants us out of there then is 70% of the country going to get behind a pro-war candidate? I also say, "I want to be on vacation but if I don't have the money to do it well... I don't go."

Heck, I support Ron Paul and think some of my fellow supporters are nuts.. that is the great thing about the campaign. He appeals to so many people on so many levels.

One thing I learned in sales is don't oversell. Ron Paul sells himself... plant the seed and it will grow. Preaching for 45 minutes on Habeus Corpus, NAU and imperial hubris and you will lose someone. Get your points down to a few soundbytes. The hispanic cashier at the hotel deli said, "Oh... you support Ron Paul... why?" I said, "He will restore The Constitution." he looked a bit lost.. then I said, "He wants to get us out of Iraq." His face lit up and I joked that none of the other folks here want to do that.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I think even without Ron Paul signs, badges etc. at the debate we will have a strong Ron Paul showing. And after we brave the snake bit everyone should head to One Eyed Jack downtown and party with like minded folks! Truthers are doing a disservice to the campaign but that just means we need even more people to join these clubs, attend party meetings and even get elected to executive committees to prove to the party that Ron Paul is conservative and his supporters are REAL Republicans.

stevedasbach
10-20-2007, 09:14 PM
WILL

Thanks for the report....I feel for ya and completely understand...

My grandpa was one to always use the saying about a few rotten apples spoiling the barrel...This is unfortunately a TRUTH....to bad that Paul suffers from the hands of ignorant dope fiends. This is not the first time nor the last.

There is still some hope that we can split the vote (our only real hope to begin with).

Keep up fighting for something that exists with or without RON PAUL.

Spliting the vote is only an option for the first 2-4 primaries. After that, the field will thin. Ultimately, we have to win majorities or at least large pluralities.

If we want to win, we have attract new primary voters and attract traditional ones.

michaelwise
10-20-2007, 09:15 PM
I get a bit down, when a day goes by without seeing a Ron Paul mention on the TV news.

Dary
10-20-2007, 09:18 PM
...we need REPUBLICANS to vote. I don't care if they ARE neocons - we NEED TO CONVINCE THEM THAT PAUL IS RIGHT!

And we are.

If my hard core, pro war, (and I hate to say it but) neo-con uncle can send me an email and tell me that he is leaning towards Ron Paul, then anything can happen.

terlinguatx
10-20-2007, 09:19 PM
We've entered the trenches now. People are taking Paul to be a serious contender and are attacking him as one. Don't despair, we have truth and reason behind uss. Paul is our greatest weapon, once people hear his ideas and witness his genuine dedication to truth little more will need to be dont to lock them in. We've made A LOT of progress this past month so step back and congratulate yourselves.

We all need a week hiatus from this forum, to relieve the stress and relax the high-strung tensions. I for one will be stepping back after the debates tomorrow, and will reflect for a few weeks befor I get involved again around Rally time on November 10th. So kick back, open up a luscious Sauternes or delightful German Auslese.

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:21 PM
Seriously, what you folks do not understand, that out west, marijuana is a big issue, and can be a huge draw of new supporters. Nobody understands why it's illegal.... and EVERYONE smokes it, or have smoked it, or have many friends that smoke it.

save people above 60 y/o, and most evengelicals (but even alot of them smoke!!!)

And if you look at where most money is coming from, per capita... it's out west.

A good portion of stalwart republicans are lost causes anyways, they have been reduced to a sauce of Bush loving Iran bombing muslim hating radicals. That is why the Iowa straw poll had 40% less attendance than in 2004.

In other words, know your audience.

Shink
10-20-2007, 09:22 PM
First, I consider you an ignorant dipshit if you call us 'crazies.' ARE YOU AWARE THAT RON SPEAKS OUT AGAINST THE NEW WORLD ORDER BY FUCKING NAME?

Second, if you are so naive as to mix in 9/11/Zionists/PopcorncomesfromZetaReticuli with anything Ron Paul, you're being selfish and dumb.

TVMH
10-20-2007, 09:22 PM
I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I think even without Ron Paul signs, badges etc. at the debate we will have a strong Ron Paul showing. And after we brave the snake bit everyone should head to One Eyed Jack downtown and party with like minded folks! Truthers are doing a disservice to the campaign but that just means we need even more people to join these clubs, attend party meetings and even get elected to executive committees to prove to the party that Ron Paul is conservative and his supporters are REAL Republicans.

Good to hear Braithwaite!

Re: partying with like-minded folks, I think this is key.

I talked to two guys at the poker table last night about Dr. Paul. The guy to my left was 50 yo and had never voted before. He was bitching about illegal immigrants...easy enough...take away the welfare state and they have less incentive to come over here, plus that leave us all more money in our pockets, so the illegal immigrants don't pose as much of a threat.

The guy on my right had heard of Dr. Paul and had nothing negative to say...had plenty of negative things to say about the others, though. :)

Keep the faith guys. We are reaching critical mass...one by one.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:24 PM
poker table, in person or online is ideal!
these people are SERIOUS and their freedom is being removed!

We can't legislate morality, if someone wants to gamble away all their check, it is at their own peril. However most poker players I know set a buget, be it $50 or $500 for the month.....

Good to hear Braithwaite!

Re: partying with like-minded folks, I think this is key.

I talked to two guys at the poker table last night about Dr. Paul. The guy to my left was 50 yo and had never voted before. He was bitching about illegal immigrants...easy enough...take away the welfare state and they have less incentive to come over here, plus that leave us all more money in our pockets, so the illegal immigrants don't pose as much of a threat.

The guy on my right had heard of Dr. Paul and had nothing negative to say...had plenty of negative things to say about the others, though. :)

Keep the faith guys. We are reaching critical mass...one by one.

frasu
10-20-2007, 09:24 PM
Heck, I support Ron Paul and think some of my fellow supporters are nuts.. that is the great thing about the campaign. He appeals to so many people on so many levels.

One thing I learned in sales is don't oversell. Ron Paul sells himself... plant the seed and it will grow. Preaching for 45 minutes on Habeus Corpus, NAU and imperial hubris and you will lose someone. Get your points down to a few soundbytes.

excellent points and well done...

fj45lvr
10-20-2007, 09:26 PM
We've entered the trenches now. People are taking Paul to be a serious contender and are attacking him as one. Don't despair, we have truth and reason behind uss. Paul is our greatest weapon, once people hear his ideas and witness his genuine dedication to truth little more will need to be dont to lock them in. We've made A LOT of progress this past month so step back and congratulate yourselves.

Well this is a optimistic theory.....

Problem is this: watch Pauls awesome speech yesterday at the summit and ask yourself how that only translates into 26 votes if what you're saying were true.

That is very damaging in my opinion.....you cannot make horses drink water. I guess it takes a "village" to make them drink koolaid.

Would be nice to have a major "talking head" or POLITICIAN ring the bell for us right now.

pennycat
10-20-2007, 09:30 PM
Will in Miami, besides hanging out with the dying Republican party, what else do you do to elect RP. I want to know what you have done for the campaign. Because the real whiners are usually those that don't do much for the campaign.

Further: It is unbelievable to me that some noob walks in here, disparages the name of a Meetup organizer and few call him on it. Shame on you. Dean S. is a great guy. I'll take one of him to 10 'Will in Miami' types.

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Thank you jcbraithwaite7 for your edifying post.

I'm looking forward to some serious sign waivage tomorrow!~

Hope to meet you too Nick!

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:37 PM
No offense, but you must run with a totally different crowd than I do. :p


Texas is Texas. It is neither West or South.

Try Washington, Or Oregon, Or California.... The "left" coast.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Will in Miami, besides hanging out with the dying Republican party, what else do you do to elect RP. I want to know what you have done for the campaign. Because the real whiners are usually those that don't do much for the campaign.

Further: It is unbelievable to me that some noob walks in here, disparages the name of a Meetup organizer and few call him on it. Shame on you. Dean S. is a great guy. I'll take one of him to 10 'Will in Miami' types.


Well let's see: I've donated or spent over $1000 in the last few months, I've made and hung banners in Miami, I've spent COUNTLES hours "blogging" about Ron Paul, and I've come to this convention (that is not free - I've spent about $600 to be here).

In short - all of you people that want to bitch at me for sharing my observations and thr truh can kiss my ass. All you will accomplish is a sure victory for Rudy or Mitt by ignoring the truth.

PS. Dean's a complete idiot and an ass. He's MUCH more harmful to Dr. Paul's campaign than anything Rudy could say or do. Heck, I have wondered if he's not a paid staffer of one of the other campaigns.

I really wish that some of you would grow up, open your eyes, and learn how to help a campaign win...

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Did I mention that the dork is running for Congress as a "Ron Paul Democrat"? How is THAT helpful?!?!?

Dary
10-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Further: It is unbelievable to me that some noob walks in here, disparages the name of a Meetup organizer and few call him on it. Shame on you. Dean S. is a great guy.

Last week while we were stuffing envelopes, Dean was a guest for most the entire show (2+ hrs?) of a local radio station host by the name of Bill Haft.

He did an excellent job enunciating and articulating Ron’s message. We managed to get on the show and put it on the speaker and we had a great time talking about Ron Paul and about all of the efforts going on in the state.

Big ups to Dean.

Looking forward to seeing you again tomorrow Nick.

Crunchy
10-20-2007, 09:41 PM
The only person killing any of Ron Pauls chances are the GOP themselves,and if they choose that route.Then we can watch the GOP flounder like a fish out of water.

The GOP doesn't have much to chose from. Let me guess a cross-dresser, a flip floper that needs lawyers, and a bunch of pro-abortion people... Yeah! Don't be such an idiot and keep working for Dr Paul. The truthers support RP because he supports a new investigation into 911. What si fucking wrong with that? So shut the fuck and donate for RP. I bet you are one of those aholes that complains a lot, but donate very little.

daviddee
10-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Will - sounds like you need some additional strong support.

I will be at the Ron Paul pre-debate meeting tomorrow from 3pm to 5pm. If you need some help... hook up with me and we can spread the word together.

It is not Ron Paul or the supporters causing problems... It is the mindset that the people you are trying to speak are in. I too have been "buzz killed" by the truthers... especially in local meetup groups.

If a Rudy person came up to me and tried to "sell me" I would be less than receptive. It seems the people you are trying to pitch are die hards... so they are using this opportunity to tweak you. Don't let them be successful in bumming you out.

The Republican base have made their choices... It is the members of the general public we need to convince now... not the "political junkies".

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:41 PM
Well let's see: I've donated or spent over $1000 in the last few months, I've made and hung banners in Miami, I've spent COUNTLES hours "blogging" about Ron Paul, and I've come to this convention (that is not free - I've spent about $600 to be here).

In short - all of you people that want to bitch at me for sharing my observations and thr truh can kiss my ass. All you will accomplish is a sure victory for Rudy or Mitt by ignoring the truth.

PS. Dean's a complete idiot and an ass. He's MUCH more harmful to Dr. Paul's campaign than anything Rudy could say or do. Heck, I have wondered if he's not a paid staffer of one of the other campaigns.

I really wish that some of you would grow up, open your eyes, and learn how to help a campaign win...

Frudy McRomney has NO CHANCE, the Republicans are going to get their asses kicked up and down because of Iraq. The Democrats have been playing this war perfectly... they could end it, but it is demolishing the GOP, and they would rather win an election by a landslide, and secure more of congress.

The only GOP that can win is Paul, that is a guarantee. Huckabee could win the primaries, but he would lose all 50 states in the general.

If you don't believe me, look at the fundraising numbers. The Democrats are cleaning house.

FreedomLover
10-20-2007, 09:44 PM
So Will, besides the RP info, what would you say are the prevailing attitutes towards the candidates there?

I assume Rudy has a good amount of support there. How about Romney, Thompson, and the others?

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:44 PM
Did I mention that the dork is running for Congress as a "Ron Paul Democrat"? How is THAT helpful?!?!?

Sounds like you have a personality conflict.

daviddee
10-20-2007, 09:44 PM
Well let's see: I've donated or spent over $1000 in the last few months, I've made and hung banners in Miami, I've spent COUNTLES hours "blogging" about Ron Paul, and I've come to this convention (that is not free - I've spent about $600 to be here).

In short - all of you people that want to bitch at me for sharing my observations and thr truh can kiss my ass. All you will accomplish is a sure victory for Rudy or Mitt by ignoring the truth.

PS. Dean's a complete idiot and an ass. He's MUCH more harmful to Dr. Paul's campaign than anything Rudy could say or do. Heck, I have wondered if he's not a paid staffer of one of the other campaigns.

I really wish that some of you would grow up, open your eyes, and learn how to help a campaign win...

Will, it has clearly been a long day for you.

It is now 11:44pm in Florida. Relax... Take a shower... Go to bed....

Tomorrow will be better. I find once I am in a mindset similar to yours it is best to sleep.

-dd

FreedomLover
10-20-2007, 09:46 PM
Huckabee could win the primaries, but he would lose all 50 states in the general.

To be fair, Mickey Mouse would probably win atleast 10 states against a candidate like shrillary.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:47 PM
Speaking of war, you should have heard the cheers today when Rudy was talking about Iran. He said "I will NOT ALLOW Iran to get a nuclear weapon" and the crowd went wild. I would have booed but nobody would have heard it and they probably would have kicked me out...

By the way, that dirt-bag Mel Martinez was there too. When he came on stage, the crowd went wild too. This is the same guy that voted FOR the amnesty bill. The crowd either forgot or didn't care - they loved him.

The Governor spoke at the luncheon. Two things troubled me about his speed. 1 - He spoke of the Republicans "solving peoples problems" instead of getting out of the way because they ARE many of the peoples problems. 2 - He was talking about Republicans solving the "global warming crisis".

I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone...

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:47 PM
To be fair, Mickey Mouse would probably win atleast 10 states against a candidate like shrillary.

I'd actually vote for mickey mouse over hillary......or bascially any of the GOP tooooo

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:49 PM
So Will, besides the RP info, what would you say are the prevailing attitutes towards the candidates there?

I assume Rudy has a good amount of support there. How about Romney, Thompson, and the others?

Rudy seemd to be the favorite followed closely by Mitt. Thompson aqnd McCain had a few supporters. That's it! I met/saw a few Ron Paul people but didn't see ANYONE with stickers, buttons, or signs for any other candidate.

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:49 PM
sounds like they have spread their fredoom that they are spreading in Iraq to their own brains :(

(yes fredoom not freedom)
It is hard to believe I belong to this party for the last years, they are so different than 15 years ago(I wasn't a part but studied it as a child) Smaller govt, get out of lives, etc....so far now from that!





Speaking of war, you should have heard the cheers today when Rudy was talking about Iran. He said "I will NOT ALLOW Iran to get a nuclear weapon" and the crowd went wild. I would have booed but nobody would have heard it and they probably would have kicked me out...

By the way, that dirt-bag Mel Martinez was there too. When he came on stage, the crowd went wild too. This is the same guy that voted FOR the amnesty bill. The crowd either forgot or didn't care - they loved him.

The Governor spoke at the luncheon. Two things troubled me about his speed. 1 - He spoke of the Republicans "solving peoples problems" instead of getting out of the way because they ARE many of the peoples problems. 2 - He was talking about Republicans solving the "global warming crisis".

I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone...

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:50 PM
To be fair, Mickey Mouse would probably win atleast 10 states against a candidate like shrillary.

Do not underestimate Hillary Clinton. She is as bland as wonder bread... and America loves bland. She has played both sides, and her name is Clinton, which is a hell of alot more powerful than Bush now.

Also there is Obama, and Edwards, both of whom are very good at being politicians.

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 09:51 PM
Speaking of war, you should have heard the cheers today when Rudy was talking about Iran. He said "I will NOT ALLOW Iran to get a nuclear weapon" and the crowd went wild. I would have booed but nobody would have heard it and they probably would have kicked me out...

By the way, that dirt-bag Mel Martinez was there too. When he came on stage, the crowd went wild too. This is the same guy that voted FOR the amnesty bill. The crowd either forgot or didn't care - they loved him.

The Governor spoke at the luncheon. Two things troubled me about his speed. 1 - He spoke of the Republicans "solving peoples problems" instead of getting out of the way because they ARE many of the peoples problems. 2 - He was talking about Republicans solving the "global warming crisis".

I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone...

I saw a clip on TV and you're right - there was a strong Mitt/Rudy following. I don't get it - they're just SO uninspirational.

Hopefully all their supporters are out getting pissed tonight and will miss most of tomorrow's festivities.

FreedomLover
10-20-2007, 09:51 PM
Speaking of war, you should have heard the cheers today when Rudy was talking about Iran. He said "I will NOT ALLOW Iran to get a nuclear weapon" and the crowd went wild. I would have booed but nobody would have heard it and they probably would have kicked me out...

By the way, that dirt-bag Mel Martinez was there too. When he came on stage, the crowd went wild too. This is the same guy that voted FOR the amnesty bill. The crowd either forgot or didn't care - they loved him.

The Governor spoke at the luncheon. Two things troubled me about his speed. 1 - He spoke of the Republicans "solving peoples problems" instead of getting out of the way because they ARE many of the peoples problems. 2 - He was talking about Republicans solving the "global warming crisis".

I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone...

Yep, we are living in strange times.

This article discusses the various factions that are trying to show their muscle this election season, it's pretty interesting:http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/who_owns_the_gop.php

ButchHowdy
10-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Do not underestimate Hillary Clinton. She is as bland as wonder bread... and America loves bland. She has played both sides, and her name is Clinton, which is a hell of alot more powerful than Bush now.

Also there is Obama, and Edwards, both of whom are very good at being politicians.

Hillary WAS a Goldwater girl! Her parents were highly conservative . . .

Dary
10-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Speaking of war, you should have heard the cheers today when Rudy was talking about Iran...

...that dirt-bag Mel Martinez was there too. When he came on stage, the crowd went wild too.

The Governor spoke at the luncheon...

I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone...

Dude. You’ve been traumatized.

Didn't Martinez just resign?

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Dude. You’ve been traumatized.

Didn't Martinez just resign?

He resigned his post at the RNC - he did NOT resign his Senate seat...

steph3n
10-20-2007, 09:55 PM
He resigned his post at the RNC - he did NOT resign his Senate seat...

he can't even make sure the candidate show up at a $5000 presidental trust dinner......he was clearly no leader. Nor is he in the Senate from what I see.

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 09:56 PM
Dude. You’ve been traumatized.



I think so. I probably would have been too... flashbacks to march 2003.

richard1984
10-20-2007, 09:56 PM
have you ever thought maybe they aren't hearing this shit from insane supporters but from the news? i have over 140 people in my group, and quite a few truthers, NONE of them associate RP with the 9/11 stuff they leave it at home
NONE of the truthers i have met going around to the general public talking about ron paul and 9/11 truth at the same time SO I can hardly believe that all these people at this convention just happen to have all talked to the FEW 9/11 truthers that do mix the two issues.

as for spreading word to the world that a libertarian was praising ron paul? WTF i don't get it? why WOULDN'T we want people to know that ALL kinds of people in different parties love ron paul?

and RP will have a hard time in fla anyway with jeb still running things

Yes. Thank you. That's what I was trying to say...only I wasn't so friendly...:rolleyes:.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Yes. Thank you. That's what I was trying to say...only I wasn't so friendly...:rolleyes:.

How ironic - the "truthers" ignore the truth about their negative effect on the Ron Paul campaign and try to blame it on the "evil MSM"...

FreedomLover
10-20-2007, 10:02 PM
i have over 140 people in my group, and quite a few truthers

I don't think that admission would make him feel much better.

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 10:02 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=26897

I think this post lends some credence to my position here tonight...

richard1984
10-20-2007, 10:12 PM
How ironic - the "truthers" ignore the truth about their negative effect on the Ron Paul campaign and try to blame it on the "evil MSM"...

Whatever dude...you're prejudice....

If "'truthers'" were all green, you'd be a racist.

Catch my drift? :rolleyes:

Chernitsky
10-20-2007, 10:15 PM
you're a douchebag

FreedomLover
10-20-2007, 10:15 PM
Whatever dude...you're prejudice....

If "'truthers'" were all green, you'd be a racist.

Catch my drift? :rolleyes:

Skin color is a trait you are born with and cannot change. Stupidity (in most cases) is not.

The truthers choose to be stupid. It's not prejudice to acknowledge that fact.

edit: uh oh. this is post number 666. ...Coincidence???

WillInMiami
10-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Whatever dude...you're prejudice....

If "'truthers'" were all green, you'd be a racist.

Catch my drift? :rolleyes:

It's amazing how nuts you people are. I can't believe that you're equating my disdane for "truthers" to racism. Next you'll suggest that there should be a law making it illegal to deny truthism - truther denial. Like global-warming denial or holocaust denial?

Go back to your basemnt, smoke some more weed, unplug your computer, and shut the hell up...

American
10-20-2007, 10:29 PM
I dont think its that big of a deal but I will say I wish the truthers would just STFU, it has NOTHING to do with this campaign. ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH.

I would give this that much weight, it was Florida that GAVE the Presidency to Bush, there got screws loose in that state.

no offense WillinMiami

I quit going to my local meetup group, its riddled with truthers and hard core libertarians, to them I say, "put the pipe down and step away from the blasphemy"

stalcottsmith
10-20-2007, 10:34 PM
Actually, Dean is NOT level-headed. As a matter of a fact, he was mentioned at my table during the Governor's luncheon. The vice-mayor of Miami Lakes was telling me that "this guy came to a meeting and was saying all kinds of crazy stuff". When I asked her the guys name, she said Dean. I've talked to Dean several times and read several of his emails - he's nuts. At one point he was sending emails to everyone trying to get them to support a Kusinich bill calling for the impeachment of Vice President Cheney. Ron Pauls name was mentioned in every email. Furthermore, Dean is telling everyone that he's running for Congress as a "Ron Paul democrat". The party people from Miami think he's as crazy as Charlie Manson...

This woman (the vice-mayor) is confusing Dean with someone who is truly a loose cannon. Dean made the poor choice of associating with someone early on who then proceeded to cause problems but I believe they have gone separate ways. Dean is sensible and I commend his campaign. Most all of us are political neophytes and bound to make mistakes.

There were some truthers who jumped on the RP bandwagon early, particularly in South Florida. Some party people are coming around to Paul but Rudy and Romney have strong campaigns here. Many people still do not like them though. In many counties, I think we will need to bring in a significant number of people who do not typically vote in primaries to win.

It's far from lost but far from won.

atthegates
10-20-2007, 10:38 PM
wait does anyone know why ron paul didnt speak at this convention?

steph3n
10-20-2007, 10:42 PM
wait does anyone know why ron paul didnt speak at this convention?

it cost 100k to talk 5 min

thomj76
10-20-2007, 10:45 PM
We have some people heading down tomorrow (including me). Don't hate on Will, he is just calling it like he sees it. Florida is in a weird place right now. We are effectively 3/4's disenfranchised (no Demo delegates, and only 1/2 GOP delegates). The information that is given out in Florida is representative also of a huge NY displacement (snowbirds). Consequently, it is rife with rudybots. It doesn't take a headbone scientist to know that how we have to approach things in Florida is different than how it is done in NH.

My point is this: Know your audience. Grab people's attention with things that 80% of people will agree with. Ron Paul has never voted to raise taxes. Ron Paul has never voted for an unbalanced budget. He is a military veteran, and as an OBGYN has delivered over 4,000 babies. His position in a nutshell is that he does not vote for things that are unconstitutional.

If you get real specific without knowing your audience, then the chances increase that they will not know what you are talking about, or will disagree with the statement.

Be respectful, thoughtful, balanced, and follow through.

I'm posting this again for reasons that concern repetition and learning...

NewEnd
10-20-2007, 10:52 PM
smoke some more weed,

See, you have no idea, but if you said that to anybody up here in Seattle, chances are, they would walk away thinking you were an ass.

Maybe you should come up here sometime, and see that just about everyone has tatoos and piercings, even the guys in suits take them off at night to show off their ink underneath... and yeah, they all smoke pot, or have msoked it, or have friends who smoke it.

You obviously have no idea how accepted use is up here, and on the entire west coast. You would be in for a complete culture shock.

So drop the judgements.

stalcottsmith
10-20-2007, 10:54 PM
Will, it has clearly been a long day for you.

It is now 11:44pm in Florida. Relax... Take a shower... Go to bed....

Tomorrow will be better. I find once I am in a mindset similar to yours it is best to sleep.

-dd

Some people get frustrated because they do not understand how to win people to their side or when not to even try.

Will, I will look for you at the party tomorrow. I want to understand your mindset and make sure you are correctly informed. It seems to me you are spreading misinformation and slandering someone. In politics you should only do that deliberately and then only if you are the type to play dirty. Ron Paul is above that and so should we all be. I am officially concerned with activities and supporters in Southeast Florida. You ought to get your facts straight or else be more careful. If you have particular concerns or questions please bring them up to me. I am easy to find.

Sincerely,

Steven

4Horsemen
10-20-2007, 10:55 PM
I can't help but think there are some provocateurs on this board. This is the typical BS that causes many movements to lose their focus. Don’t blame the “truthers”; blame the bone heads who can’t comprehend what’s going on in this country. The American people want out of Iraq—pronto! If they support the war monger candidates: they should just vote for Hillary. What’s the point of having these conventions and debates if they support someone who will lose to the Democrats? They don’t have much dirt on RP, so they’ll blame some BS truther organization for their lack of support for him. It’s that simple….

Johncjackson
10-20-2007, 10:59 PM
It's not Ron Paul's fault that he is the REAL Republican and all the fake Republicans call him a "Democrat."'

I can understand disagreeing with some of his stances, but anyone who calls Rp a "Democrat" is a fucking idiot.

His beliefs are Old Right libertarian and there is no tradition in the Democratic party of supporting small government.

however it appears painfully clear that the modern GOP lays no claim to the small government and conservatism either.

Instead of calling Dr. Paul names, these fake Republicans should admit THEY are the ones who have drifted from the Republican platform.

As far as the topic, I agree that there are some kooks/crazies who push the conspiracy BS and truther stuff, but other things you mentioned are NOT crazies.

Drug legalization is a SMALL Government issue. And allowing dying people to smoke marijuana is not a "crazy" issue. Supporting a massive police/War State IS the crazy issue. And these people who support all the WARS are the real nutjobs. the people who want to shoot people for having marijuana or for having sex outside of a married man/woman missonary position may be "social conservatives" but they arent small government conservatives.

if the modern Republicans require someone to be an idiot Theocrat who doesnt believe in science or modern medicine and supports a massive police state that wages wars around the world. Well,

FUCK them, then.

And wish them a nice time when Hillary wins.

gornandez@yahoo.com
10-20-2007, 11:02 PM
regarding truthers:

I'm completely sympathetic to your cause and whatever might be your motivations. There does seem to me to be alot of BS connected to 911. Id be very happy to see al kinds of new investigations carried out during the Paul administration.

But 911truth is not a selling point for RP..... uless someones already a truther

We really need to keep these issues separate

Do you want RP to be president? or do you want to make noise for 911T?
Because if you just focus on Ron's conventional strengths (which are strong enough for him to win) and tone down the downright scary stuff (which people will dismiss), we can have a good honest guy in the whitehouse, who is also symathetic to further investigations.

Please?

richard1984
10-20-2007, 11:16 PM
Skin color is a trait you are born with and cannot change. Stupidity (in most cases) is not.

The truthers choose to be stupid. It's not prejudice to acknowledge that fact.

edit: uh oh. this is post number 666. ...Coincidence???

It's amazing how nuts you people are. I can't believe that you're equating my disdane for "truthers" to racism. Next you'll suggest that there should be a law making it illegal to deny truthism - truther denial. Like global-warming denial or holocaust denial?

Go back to your basemnt, smoke some more weed, unplug your computer, and shut the hell up...

:D [please don't even bother responding to this post--unless you actually have something serious to say....]

First of all, I just want to ask a question: "Do you have any idea what you are saying?--And if so, do you not realize that you are being prejudice?!"

I have never been a "truther"--as "they" are called--but I guarantee that you could not "win" in an argument against me about 9/11.

Why?

While I do not claim to know exactly what happened, I do claim that those buildings should NOT have imploded.

All I want is a convincing answer.
I'm pretty damn sure that you can't out-argue me.
Why? --Because I don't know the answers either...(not to mention that my IQ--which doesn't mean a damn thing to me--is way up there, and probably higher than yours...).

But I'm damn sure that they (WTC 1, 2, & 7) shouldn't have imploded!
And if you don't realize that, then you either need to go to a psychiatrist, or you need to recognize reality!


Will,
I hate arguing. I think that it's usually ridiculous.
But you are acting crazy.

Honestly, I want to just end all of this now (i.e., I want to "start over"). But man...do you even know what you're saying?
Are you truly a Ron Paul supporter?
Because I can't tell.

If I had been there with you, you and I would have set all of those fools straight! :D
They would have said that BS, and I would have corrected them!

This Revolution begins with education!!!
It's a pain-in-the-ass, but you won't get anywhere if you are not educated.


FUCK THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, FUCK SOCIALISM, & FUCK COMMUNISM!!!!! :cool:

You know? :D

(again, try not to take what I'm saying offensively--I'm at my parents' house, and I get really damn moody when I'm here. If you can't relate, then consider yourself fortunate. :rolleyes:)

richard1984
10-20-2007, 11:19 PM
See, you have no idea, but if you said that to anybody up here in Seattle, chances are, they would walk away thinking you were an ass.

Maybe you should come up here sometime, and see that just about everyone has tatoos and piercings, even the guys in suits take them off at night to show off their ink underneath... and yeah, they all smoke pot, or have msoked it, or have friends who smoke it.

You obviously have no idea how accepted use is up here, and on the entire west coast. You would be in for a complete culture shock.

So drop the judgements.

Right on, bro!!! :D;)

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 11:30 PM
edit nm

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 11:40 PM
crunchy ,you talking to me(saw the quote(but the rest really didnt make any sense unless you were talking to someone else,if so you just made no sense,and put words into my mouth it seems.You must be dreaming or something.

speciallyblend
10-20-2007, 11:47 PM
Will,im sorry you picked florida to live in,but it seems to suit you well.We encourage all florida people to stay in florida and stay away from Colorado.It Will be better off that way;)

TVMH
10-20-2007, 11:50 PM
:D [please don't even bother responding to this post--unless you actually have something serious to say....]

First of all, I just want to ask a question: "Do you have any idea what you are saying?--And if so, do you not realize that you are being prejudice?!"

I have never been a "truther"--as "they" are called--but I guarantee that you could not "win" in an argument against me about 9/11.

Why?

While I do not claim to know exactly what happened, I do claim that those buildings should NOT have imploded.

All I want is a convincing answer.
I'm pretty damn sure that you can't out-argue me.
Why? --Because I don't know the answers either...(not to mention that my IQ--which doesn't mean a damn thing to me--is way up there, and probably higher than yours...).

But I'm damn sure that they (WTC 1, 2, & 7) shouldn't have imploded!
And if you don't realize that, then you either need to go to a psychiatrist, or you need to recognize reality!


Will,
I hate arguing. I think that it's usually ridiculous.
But you are acting crazy.

Honestly, I want to just end all of this now (i.e., I want to "start over"). But man...do you even know what you're saying?
Are you truly a Ron Paul supporter?
Because I can't tell.

If I had been there with you, you and I would have set all of those fools straight! :D
They would have said that BS, and I would have corrected them!

This Revolution begins with education!!!
It's a pain-in-the-ass, but you won't get anywhere if you are not educated.


FUCK THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, FUCK SOCIALISM, & FUCK COMMUNISM!!!!! :cool:

You know? :D

(again, try not to take what I'm saying offensively--I'm at my parents' house, and I get really damn moody when I'm here. If you can't relate, then consider yourself fortunate. :rolleyes:)

Ya kinna chinge the laws 'o physics, Jim. :D