Question: TSA security check required for small airports/flying in small planes?

[Nate-ForLiberty]

If you fly in a small plane like a Cessna, is there still TSA security there to check you before you get on, or is it only for large airlines?

[Lucille]

Not yet, but they're working on it.

The Private Way Around the Checkpoints (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/business/09road.html?_r=1)


There is a way to pretty much avoid the security hassle at the nation’s 450 or so commercial airports: Fly instead on a business jet or any other private aircraft.

But it is not generally known that, as the Transportation Security Administration said in a proposed set of rules in late 2008, “with few exceptions, T.S.A. does not currently require security programs” for general aviation aircraft operators. That class of aviation is very broad, including everything from a weekend pilot in a Piper Cub to a farmer’s crop duster to big $65 million business jets capable of spanning the world.

The regulations the agency is proposing, called the Large Aircraft Security Program, would apply stricter security standards to operators of private aircraft of a certain weight. “As vulnerabilities and risks associated with air carriers and commercial operators have been reduced or mitigated, terrorists may view general aviation aircraft as more vulnerable and thus attractive targets,” the agency said. “If hijacked and used as a missile, these aircraft would be capable of inflicting significant damage.”

The proposal would expand the pool of private aircraft operators required to have security programs approved by the T.S.A. from about 650 now, to about 10,000. Given the disruption the new rules would create, the general aviation industry has fiercely opposed them, and the proposal remains just that.

Most general aviation operations, including business aircraft flights, operate from thousands of secondary airports, most without commercial airline service and T.S.A. checkpoints. In general, private aircraft operators ensure their own security, usually under the aegis of the pilot and the company flying the plane.

In most cases, a passenger for a business jet simply walks, or is driven, to the door of the plane and boards without going through a metal detector or a pat-down. The industry points out that its record in security has been excellent.

The T.S.A. proposal “would require additional security requirements for general aviation airplanes weighing over 12,500 pounds,” said Edward M. Bolen, the president of the National Business Aviation Association, which objects to the rules as imposing too much of a security burden on business aviation. Calling it a rule reserved for “large aircraft” is a misnomer, he said. At 12,000 pounds takeoff weight, “that’s almost every jet, including small cabin jets and some of the larger turbo props,” Mr. Bolen said.

(more at the link)

[Nate-ForLiberty]

so then why can't we use this more? Yes, cost is the issue, but can't we figure out a way to utilize all of those hundreds and hundreds (maybe thousands) of small airports around the US?

[Lucille]

so then why can't we use this more? Yes, cost is the issue, but can't we figure out a way to utilize all of those hundreds and hundreds (maybe thousands) of small airports around the US?

I mentioned here yesterday that charters could become a booming business. I read some fly up to 60, but I haven't checked the rates. We're wanting to go to Orlando in the spring, and it's either drive, or a group charter.

http://www.newflightcharters.com/


Choice Of Specific Aircraft And Price

Choose your specific aircraft from a series of quotes, often at considerable savings. New Flight Charters has recorded industry-leading growth by providing choice of aircraft and Best Price Guarantee, for each charter flight request. Take advantage of flexibility for better choices and prices for your individual trip needs than the one-size-fits-all 'jet card' or fractional programs.

Don't settle for what someone else sends you in their profit-driven choice. Jet Charter is a premium service and expense, you deserve your choice of aircraft for each flight. Why accept someone's “midsize jet” when you can choose from a Hawker 800XP, Citation Excel, Learjet 60, Lear 55 etc., all different in size - features - performance, and priced separately often at considerable savings.

New to private charter, aircraft and jets? NFC charter experts can recommend and discuss the most appropriate, comfortable or popular aircraft for your mission or provide the best available if you desire a certain type or have a charter budget goal.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

is there a third party company that could book you passage from for instance Orlando to New Orleans via small private craft? You would pay the ticket at this company who would contract with the small airlines and then send you an itinerary. Basically, it would do the work for you in getting you cross country via small craft/short trips.

As I write that, i'm not sure it sounds economically viable.

[Anti Federalist]

so then why can't we use this more? Yes, cost is the issue, but can't we figure out a way to utilize all of those hundreds and hundreds (maybe thousands) of small airports around the US?

To fly, let's say from LA to NYC on a "time share" small jet aircraft would cost roughly $10,000 one way.

To rent, and fly yourself, on say a Cessna 182, assuming you are a pilot, would cost roughly $150-200 an hour and take about 20-24 hours.

:(

Sadly, the "heavies" have the subsidies and the economy of scale to make it the only option for anybody but the wealthiest of the wealthy.

And the ruling class, of course.

[Lucille]

is there a third party company that could book you passage from for instance Orlando to New Orleans via small private craft? You would pay the ticket at this company who would contract with the small airlines and then send you an itinerary. Basically, it would do the work for you in getting you cross country via small craft/short trips.

As I write that, i'm not sure it sounds economically viable.

A broker! Here's one:

http://www.airbrokernet.com/


Aircraft Charter Services Worldwide

Air Broker Net is a leader in Private Aircraft Charter Services, Fractional Ownership and Aircraft Management. As an exclusive Air Charter Broker Service, we work within an expansive global network of certified operators and airports. Think of us as your personal booking agent and air travel coordinator, providing you with complete choice of carefully selected aircraft meeting the highest safety standards for both private and executive air travel. Since we are not restricted to our own airplane fleet or specific operational base we can easily provide you with:

Excellent Air Charter Service and Airport Flexibility
Highly Competitive Quotes and Rates
Complete Charter Travel Arrangements
Your Own Private Travel Coordinator
Fractional Ownership and Management
We only use the Highest Safety Rated Aircraft
Our Air Charter Coordinators are available 24/7

[Lucille]

To fly, let's say from LA to NYC on a "time share" small jet aircraft would cost roughly $10,000 one way.

To rent, and fly yourself, on say a Cessna 182, assuming you are a pilot, would cost roughly $150-200 an hour and take about 20-24 hours.

:(

Sadly, the "heavies" have the subsidies and the economy of scale to make it the only option for anybody but the wealthiest of the wealthy.

And the ruling class, of course.

Alas...

[Lucille]

I know the costs are high now, but I still believe there's a market here for regular people. Some enterprising pilots, airlines could certainly make it more affordable.

[Anti Federalist]

A broker! Here's one:

http://www.airbrokernet.com/

One of the largest out there:

Net Jets.

I called for a Manchester NH to Houma LA once, the quote was $9700 one way.

Guess who own them?

Berkshire Hathaway, yes Warren "Bailout" Buffet.

No Mundanes allowed. :mad:

[Anti Federalist]

Some selected flight quotes from another provider:


Flight: Los Angeles, CA – London, England
Aircraft: Gulfstream V (Heavy Jet)
Cost: $188,100 USD


Flight: Miami, FL – New York, NY
Aircraft: Challenger 604 (Heavy Jet)
Cost: $18,100 USD Tax Included


Flight: New York, NY – London, England
Aircraft: Gulfstream IV (Heavy Jet)
Cost: $83,450 USD


Flight: Washington, DC (IAD) – Aspen, CO (ASE)
Aircraft: Challenger 300 (Super Mid Size Jet)
Cost: $21,070 Tax Included


Flight: Teterboro, NJ (TEB) – Van Nuys, CA (VNY)
Aircraft: Hawker 1000 (Super Mid Size Jet)
Cost: $26,530 Tax Included

http://www.privejets.com/?gclid=CIzuoP--taUCFQIGbAodKjPGZg

[Nate-ForLiberty]

I've posted before about the roadable aircraft called The Transition. It runs on regular unleaded gas like a car. Do you think this could seriously lower to costs of this kind of flying? What other costs are there to flying?

Taxes? Runway fee? aircraft maintenance? pilot pay?

What do you think the costs would be?

[silentshout]

This one only goes around Oregon, a few cities in Washington, and to a couple of places in Alaska ( although I can't find information about the Alaska stops on their site.) I have no idea how they can get around the regulations, though.
http://www.seaportair.com/

[Nate-ForLiberty]

This one only goes around oregon, a few cities in Washington, and to a couple of places in Alaska. I have no idea how much it costs, though.

http://www.seaportair.com/

from their website


No lines. No rubber gloves. No need to take your shoes off. Simply arrive 15 minutes before your flight, board and go. It's air travel the way it should be - fast and hassle-free.

:)

[Lucille]

This is from Phoenix to Orlando round trip via http://www.onesky.com/. So if you have party of 8, it comes out to about $530/person at the most:

MEDIUM JET 6-8 $2,375 - $4,250

It's a bit of a tight squeeze, but for myself, I'd rather spend the extra money and not have to suffer the indignity of the TSA! Plus, no lines, no crowds... There's more upsides than downsides.

http://www.onesky.com/images/stock/45_EXT.jpghttp://www.onesky.com/images/stock/45_INT.jpg


Typical Medium Jet Characteristics

Passenger Capacity: 6-8
Lavatory Style: Full (with sink)
Airspeed (mph): 530
Range: 2,000
Cabin Width: 6
Cabin Height: 5.8
Cabin Length: 21.3

Medium Sized Jets are excellent for flights up to four hours long with between 6 and 8 people. Many of the aircraft in this class seat 3 people on a bench seat, which is fine for shorter flights but can be uncomfortable on longer trips. This size aircraft often has to stop for fuel when heading to the West Coast of the U.S. from New York or other East Coast points of origin. Because of prevailing winds, often these aircraft can make the West to East trip non-stop....

Same trip, add a few more people and say the cost is $7000, a heavy jet comes out to about $580:

HEAVY JET 9-12+ $2,750 - $11,550

http://www.onesky.com/images/stock/75_EXT.jpghttp://www.onesky.com/images/stock/75_INT.jpg


Passenger Capacity: 9-12
Lavatory Style: Full (with sink)
Airspeed (mph): 560
Range: 4,000 +
Cabin Width: 7.3
Cabin Height: 6.2
Cabin Length: 45.1

Large Jets are excellent for long flights or for cases where you need to bring 9 or more people. Virtually all large cabin jets have transcontinental range. Most aircraft in this class can make it across the Atlantic Ocean as well. Newer jets in this class have exceptional range, allowing for flights such as New York to Tokyo non-stop. These aircraft typically seat 9-12 people. There are a few large cabin jets with as many as 18 seats...

It's doable! They're both hella cheaper than first class!


We Understand the Market
Industry Fact: Did you know that the average private jet in a air charter fleet only flies about 400 hours per year? That is just a little more than an hour per day. Why? Because independent charter operators couldn't market their aircraft nationally until now. National coverage means passengers have a greater choice of private jets and charter operators have more business. OneSky Jets combines the best aspects of a national brand with the advantages of local ownership and control. Because we network together a select group of the best regional Part 135 air carriers, our strength comes from sharing best practices across the industry, developing more efficient processes, and focusing on our customers' needs and expectations. Customers benefit from better service, excellent pricing, more choice, and consistently excellent flight experiences.

[silentshout]

from their website



:)
Too bad they don't go anywhere else!

Edit: I didn't notice that they also have flights in Arkansas and Missouri. Too bad they don't have one from LAX to San Francisco or Vegas.

[Lucille]

from their website


No lines. No rubber gloves. No need to take your shoes off. Simply arrive 15 minutes before your flight, board and go. It's air travel the way it should be - fast and hassle-free.

:)

Ha! Love it!

[osan]

If you fly in a small plane like a Cessna, is there still TSA security there to check you before you get on, or is it only for large airlines?

Not in small airports. In large ones like Newark, I don't know as I have never flown out of one that large. But smaller controlled airports like Wilkes-Barre didn't have such things for private pilots.

[osan]

To rent, and fly yourself, on say a Cessna 182, assuming you are a pilot, would cost roughly $150-200 an hour and take about 20-24 hours.

A Glasair III w/ 750shp gas turbine cruising 350kts @ 15K feet would get you there in about 10 hours, including fuel stop. Now that is flying. :)

[Anti Federalist]

This is from Phoenix to Orlando round trip via http://www.onesky.com/. So if you have party of 8, it comes out to about $530/person at the most:

MEDIUM JET 6-8 $2,375 - $4,250

It's a bit of a tight squeeze, but for myself, I'd rather spend the extra money and not have to suffer the indignity of the TSA! Plus, no lines, no crowds... There's more upsides than downsides.

http://www.onesky.com/images/stock/45_EXT.jpghttp://www.onesky.com/images/stock/45_INT.jpg



Same trip, add a few more people and say the cost is $7000, a heavy jet comes out to about $580:

HEAVY JET 9-12+ $2,750 - $11,550

http://www.onesky.com/images/stock/75_EXT.jpghttp://www.onesky.com/images/stock/75_INT.jpg



It's doable! They're both hella cheaper than first class!

That is "doable" if you could get a large enough party together.

And cramped? Shit, no more cramped than being a big stuck in the middle seat on a 737 - 800.

I've flown a Piper Malibu and Beech Baron, which is the closest I've come to the level of private jet, but that looks plush enough for me.

Thanks.