Popular mechanics on TSA scans: they won't catch anyone.

[Agorism]

Popular mechanics

Security and Terrorism Expert Bruce Schneier: TSA Scans "Won't Catch Anybody (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/tsa-scans-security-theater-interview?click=pm_latest)

[sevin]

Yup.

The TSA isn't about protecting us. It's about getting us used to being treated like cattle.

[Anti Federalist]

Holy shit!!

If those tools at PM are jumping on the bandwagon, maybe there's hope yet to shut this down.

[TruckinMike]

They are trying to re-gain lost trust from the biased 911 reporting. IMO:cool:

TMIKE

[sofia]

What happens when our hypothetical toothpaste bomber finally figures out that he can kill kill just as many travelers, cause just as much fear, and cripple the airline industry ....just as much by simply detonating his "toothpaste bomb" at the crowded security checkpoint itself BEFORE passing through the X-rays????

Anyone have a contingency plan for that move???

[Maximus]

What happens when our hypothetical toothpaste bomber finally figures out that he can kill kill just as many travelers, cause just as much fear, and cripple the airline industry ....just as much by simply detonating his "toothpaste bomb" at the crowded security checkpoint itself BEFORE passing through the X-rays????

Anyone have a contingency plan for that move???

That's not a problem, we should have a pre-screening before people get to the main screening area, ensuring that all people waiting in the main screening area are safe. Just in case, we will also install a pre-pre-screening station to the pre screening station, to keep people safe while waiting in line at the pre-screening station.

:rolleyes:

[ghengis86]

YouTube - Bruce Schneier Interviewed by PM: TSA scans "Won't Catch Anybody" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTKuVtIwOP0)

[EndDaFed]

Holy shit!!

If those tools at PM are jumping on the bandwagon, maybe there's hope yet to shut this down.

The only tools were the ones who condemned them for not buying into 911 lunacy.

[Agorism]

get your TSA bumper stickers

http://famousdc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/tsa.jpg

[Brian4Liberty]

In his 2003 book "Beyond Fear," he coined the phrase "security theater" to refer to measures which are undertaken not because they will be effective at thwarting attacks, but because the agencies carrying them out need to appear to be doing something useful.

"Security Theater". He hit that on the head!

[sofia]

The only tools were the ones who condemned them for not buying into 911 lunacy.

Have a look at what these 1,368 9/11 "lunatic" architects & engineers have to say about the official fairy tale of 9/11


http://www.ae911truth.org

[james1906]

Those bumper stickers are great.

[jmhudak17]

Have a look at what these 1,368 9/11 "lunatic" architects & engineers have to say about the official fairy tale of 9/11


http://www.ae911truth.org

YouTube - Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth: Lies and Distortions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8yfNLSp_Pw)

[Anti Federalist]

The only tools were the ones who condemned them for not buying into 911 lunacy.

Brother, get off that government mule.

Your pond is drying up, ditch the zeros and get with the heroes, join the winning team and come on in for the big win.

[Anti Federalist]

Blarg blarg, yeah yeah

Serious question here.

Everybody here, or at least I think everybody here, is in universal agreement that government is corrupt, rotten, wicked, cumbersome, a plague on man's mind and soul, correct?

Why do some of you then become stark raving, government supporting, fanatics when it comes to, and only when it comes to, 9/11?

Government cannot be trusted in any other aspect at all, ever, but we'll trust it on this, one of the most seminal events of the nation's history.

Help me out here...:confused:

[jmhudak17]

Serious question here.

Everybody here, or at least I think everybody here, is in universal agreement that government is corrupt, rotten, wicked, cumbersome, a plague on man's mind and soul, correct?

Why do some of you then become stark raving, government supporting, fanatics when it comes to, and only when it comes to, 9/11?

Government cannot be trusted in any other aspect at all, ever, but we'll trust it on this, one of the most seminal events of the nation's history.

Help me out here...:confused:

It's not that I don't think the government could have done 9/11, it's that I don't think they did from looking at evidence. We're not government supporting. I blame the government for 9/11 happening; I think they were completely inept. I just don't think they did it or allowed it to happen.

[sofia]

It's not that I don't think the government could have done 9/11, it's that I don't think they did from looking at evidence. We're not government supporting. I blame the government for 9/11 happening; I think they were completely inept. I just don't think they did it or allowed it to happen.

You havent spent 5 minutes looking at the actual evidence

[jmhudak17]

You havent spent 5 minutes looking at the actual evidence

Excuse me? You don't know anything about me, I don't need you to talk down to me. I have spent A LOT of time looking at the evidence.

[RonPaulCult]

If Popular Mechanics is against these machines, I am not FOR them!

[sofia]

Excuse me? You don't know anything about me, I don't need you to talk down to me. I have spent A LOT of time looking at the evidence.

No you havent....because any person who does take the time to do the actual research ALWAYS comes away convinced that 9/11 was an inside job.

Only people who refuse to dig into the evidence can remain believers in the actual fairy tale.

The official story is so ridiculous, that if someone concocted for a fiction book.....it wouldnt sell because the premise is so absurd.


19 nerds under the command of an Arab caveman.....taking a Cessna simulator course, evading the US airforce for over an hour and a half, flying like top gun pilots into their targets.....and causing 900,000 tons of concrete to instantly pulverize at free fall speed

......come on man.....No rational person can believe that crap!

[PeacePlan]

"Security Theater". He hit that on the head!

It is about selling those scanners IMO

[jmhudak17]

No you havent....because any person who does take the time to do the actual research ALWAYS comes away convinced that 9/11 was an inside job.

Only people who refuse to dig into the evidence can remain believers in the actual fairy tale.

The official story is so ridiculous, that if someone concocted for a fiction book.....it wouldnt sell because the premise is so absurd.


19 nerds under the command of an Arab caveman.....taking a Cessna simulator course, evading the US airforce for over an hour and a half, flying like top gun pilots into their targets.....and causing 900,000 tons of concrete to instantly pulverize at free fall speed

......come on man.....No rational person can believe that crap!

Maybe you're the one that isn't rational? I have done research. Calling Osama bin Laden an Arab caveman literally made me laugh. Do you realize how rich him and his family are? On the other points, I feel absolutely no need to debate with you. You're pretty much brainwashed by the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

[sofia]

Maybe you're the one that isn't rational? I have done research. Calling Osama bin Laden an Arab caveman literally made me laugh. Do you realize how rich him and his family are? On the other points, I feel absolutely no need to debate with you. You're pretty much brainwashed by the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

u cant debate with me. I have the laws of physics, forensic chemistry, mettalurgy, gravity, and statistical probability on my side.

I also have historical precedent and 100's of eye witness accounts to support the truth.

All you can do is cite the "authority" of the Yellow Journalist Hearst Family (which owns Popular Semantics magazine....

Do you still believe that Spain sank the USS Maine?

Do you still believe that the US navy was attacked at Tonken Gulf?

[OrigSEOH]

I know what your saying...and I don't believe the full truth has been told to us, for sure. I really can't believe someone did not know something was happening, it all just seems awful funny. But, I will say that I was in Alliance, OH on that day framing a nursing home with a bunch of other people, when we got the word of what was going on. Within minutes of the word we all heard multiple fighter jets breaking the sound barrier. Most of us really thought all hell was breaking loose. Nevertheless, they said the passengers rushed the cabinet on the plane that went down in PA, but I think they got a Sidewinder in the tale. Just my 2 cents.

The official story is so ridiculous, that if someone concocted for a fiction book.....it wouldnt sell because the premise is so absurd.


19 nerds under the command of an Arab caveman.....taking a Cessna simulator course, evading the US airforce for over an hour and a half, flying like top gun pilots into their targets.....and causing 900,000 tons of concrete to instantly pulverize at free fall speed

......come on man.....No rational person can believe that crap!

[Anti Federalist]

I know what your saying...and I don't believe the full truth has been told to us, for sure. I really can't believe someone did not know something was happening, it all just seems awful funny. But, I will say that I was in Alliance, OH on that day framing a nursing home with a bunch of other people, when we got the word of what was going on. Within minutes of the word we all heard multiple fighter jets breaking the sound barrier. Most of us really thought all hell was breaking loose. Nevertheless, they said the passengers rushed the cabinet on the plane that went down in PA, but I think they got a Sidewinder in the tale. Just my 2 cents.

But government will tell us it took almost an hour for any planes to get in the air.

Nice eyewitness report, could you post an exact time and place?

FWIW I think the same thing happened, they got a heat seeker right up the exhaust.

Know when that happened?

When it became clear that the passengers got hold of the flight deck, that there would be at least one "terrorist" left alive to run his mouth and that Flight 93's target, most likely the White House or Capitol Building would not end up getting hit.

"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot four four niner, this is Crystal Palace, smoke the eastbound United heavy, repeat, smoke the eastbound United heavy, confirm."

[Promontorium]

Serious question here.

Everybody here, or at least I think everybody here, is in universal agreement that government is corrupt, rotten, wicked, cumbersome, a plague on man's mind and soul, correct?

Why do some of you then become stark raving, government supporting, fanatics when it comes to, and only when it comes to, 9/11?

Government cannot be trusted in any other aspect at all, ever, but we'll trust it on this, one of the most seminal events of the nation's history.

Help me out here...:confused:

You trust this "corrupt, rotten, wicked, cumbersome" government to pull off such a massive hoax?

Again it is the bane of the Truther to use a logic fallacy to argue the point.

Evidence of something not happening one way is not evidence of something happening another way. Unless there are only two choices.

So get over this terribly ignorant method of persuasion, or give up. Not believing the government did 9/11 DOES NOT IMPLY TRUST. You can't spin it that way, that is irrational.

I am not a "stark raving, government supporting, fanatic" NO MATTER HOW MANY FUCKING IRRATIONAL EVIDENCE-LACKING THEORIES I REJECT. Rejection of one thing does not imply support of another.

I will repeat this till the end of days, because the Truther argument is entirely based on this fallacy.

Here are Truther logic leaps:

-A missile hit the Pentagon. Thus it was the US government.

-No one was on the planes, in fact the planes weren't even flying when passengers called their families, all those people were liars because they are part of the conspiracy thus it was the US government.

-Thermite, thus the US government.

-Goveenment denies involvement, I want to believe.


KNOCK IT OFF. These ideas sound insane, and not because I don't think the government is too morally good, but because the IDEAS ARE INSANE.

Not impossible; improbable, but Truthers have completely failed to ever show any government connection.

I know the government has harmed people in the past for its own gain, yet that's not proof of involvement here. I assume the government has lied about details of 9/11, and still this is not indicative of involvement.

All you have to do is provide 1 little bit of evidence of positive involvement, and you'll sell me, but there is nothing. Truther theories are a hodge podge of conflicting or unrelated theories, none of the claimed evidence ever fingers the government, that is always just inferential. And the theories themselves hinge on ultimately guesswork to explain contradictory evidence. Even to the point of nonsense. Truthers argue that the planes that hit the towers weren't passenger planes, even though thousands saw it first hand, and billions saw it on video. Truthers, more than anyone, remind me of the reeducation in 1984 where if I hold up 3 fingers, and tell you it's 4, then you see 4. But attacks aside, there's still no positive evidence, only evidence that the "official" story isn't 100% accurate. And even if Truthers proved the 9/11 "official" story was completely wrong, it still would not show government participation.

[Anti Federalist]

All you have to do is provide 1 little bit of evidence of positive involvement, and you'll sell me, but there is nothing.

Page after page after page of repeated contact with CIA, FBI, NSA and the "hijackers".

http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essaykhalidandnawaf


Head of Pakistani ISI, who had previously wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Muhammad Atta, takes an early morning breakfast meeting with high level US intelligence "officials". (forgot to add - on the morning of 9/11 - AF)

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?the_isi:_a_more_detailed_look=mahmood Ahmed&timeline=complete_911_timeline

(8:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Intelligence Committee Chairs Meet with ISI Head and Possible 9/11 Attack Funder as the Attack Occurs
From left to right: Senator Bob Graham (D), Senator Jon Kyl (R), and Representative Porter Goss (R). [Source: US Senate, National Park Service, US House of Representatives]Around 8:00 a.m., on September 11, 2001, ISI Director Lt. Gen. Mahmood Ahmed is at a breakfast meeting at the Capitol with the chairmen of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Senator Bob Graham (D-FL) and Representative Porter Goss (R-FL), a 10-year veteran of the CIA’s clandestine operations wing.

Also present at the meeting are Senator Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and the Pakistani ambassador to the US, Maleeha Lodhi, as well as other officials and aides. (Goss, Kyl, and Graham had just met with Pakistani President Pervez Mushrraf in Pakistan two weeks earlier (see August 28-30, 2001)). [Salon, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 5/18/2002] Graham and Goss will later co-head the joint House-Senate investigation into the 9/11 attacks, which will focus on Saudi government involvement in the 9/11 attacks, but will say almost nothing about possible Pakistani government connections to al-Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks (see August 1-3, 2003 and December 11, 2002). [Washington Post, 7/11/2002] Note that Senator Graham should have been aware of a report made to his staff the previous month (see Early August 2001) that one of Mahmood’s subordinates had told a US undercover agent that the WTC would be destroyed. Some evidence suggests that Mahmood ordered that $100,000 be sent to hijacker Mohamed Atta (see October 7, 2001).

Pakistan's Demands - Graham will later say of the meeting: “We were talking about terrorism, specifically terrorism generated from Afghanistan.” The New York Times will report that bin Laden is specifically discussed. [Vero Beach Press Journal, 9/12/2001; Salon, 9/14/2001; New York Times, 6/3/2002] The US wants more support from Pakistan in its efforts to capture bin Laden. However, Mahmood says that unless the US lifts economic sanctions imposed on Pakistan and improves relations, Pakistan will not oppose the Taliban nor provide intelligence and military support to get bin Laden.

He says, “If you need our help, you need to address our problems and lift US sanctions.” He also encourages the US to engage the Taliban diplomatically to get them to change, instead of isolating them. Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid will later comment, “It was absurd for Mahmood to insist now that the Americans engage with the Taliban, when [Pakistan’s] own influence over them was declining and al-Qaeda’s increasing.”
Meeting Interrupted by 9/11 Attacks - Zamir Akram, an accompanying Pakistani diplomat, leaves the room for a break. While outside, he sees a group of Congressional aides gathered around a television set.

As Akram walks up to the TV, he sees the second plane crashing into the World Trade Center. He immediately runs back to the meeting to the tell the others. But even as he gets there, a congressional aide comes in to say that Capitol Hill is being evacuated. The aide says, “There is a plane headed this way.” Mahmood and the rest of the Pakistani delegation immediately leave and attempt to return to the Pakistani embassy. But they are stuck in traffic for three hours before they get there.

[Anti Federalist]

You trust this "corrupt, rotten, wicked, cumbersome" government to pull off such a massive hoax?

Yes, I do, with no equivocation or hesitation.

Government has proven itself very, very, very, efficient at one task.

Killing people.

[Andrew-Austin]

Popular mechanics

Security and Terrorism Expert Bruce Schneier: TSA Scans "Won't Catch Anybody (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/tsa-scans-security-theater-interview?click=pm_latest)

But.. But! Popular Mechanics is CIA.

/sarcasm

[jmdrake]

Maybe you're the one that isn't rational? I have done research. Calling Osama bin Laden an Arab caveman literally made me laugh. Do you realize how rich him and his family are? On the other points, I feel absolutely no need to debate with you. You're pretty much brainwashed by the 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

According to the official story that you put so much stock in, Osama Bin Laden was on the outs with his family and cut off from all of his money. That's why it was ok for the Bush administration to let the Bin Ladens leave the country without any serious questioning. Further according to the official story that you put so much stock in, Osama was living in a cave complex at the time of the attack.

Anyway, you claim to know so much about 9/11. Do you know who wired the lead hijacker $100,000 in April 2001?

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ralph Nader: TSA is delivering naked insecurity
November 20th, 2010 ·[/URL]

Excerpt from an opinion piece published in [URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-18-column18_ST1_N.htm"]USA Today (http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2010/11/nader-tsa-is-delivering-naked-insecurity/#comments), and sent out to Nader’s e-mail announcement list:
TSA is delivering naked insecurity
by Ralph Nader

To airline passengers: Get ready for naked insecurity.


To the Department of Homeland Security: If you thought this week was bad, brace yourself for a tsunami of protests in the days ahead!


This month Homeland Security has implemented a new rule calling for extremely invasive pat-downs of commercial airline passengers who decline to use full-body, “backscatter technology” scanners that use low-level X-rays. Pregnant women, parents with young children, adherents of religions, amputees and people with wireless insulin pumps or embedded medical devices are increasingly saying, “No thanks.” They do not believe they should be exposed to technology that could pose risks, may malfunction, and certainly invades their privacy. So Homeland Security has doubled its trouble by turning to the invasive pat-downs. What the department should do is reconsider its use of these scanners, but after reading Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano’s full-throated defense of the technology and procedures on this page this past Monday, I’m not hopeful…

[OrigSEOH]

I honestly can't remember the exact time, it was after the second tower was hit, we left the site at about 10:00am so I'm guessing it was about a half an hour before that we heard the fighters whizzing by, we were in the general location of where that plane did its u-turn and head back across PA. So, my best guess they went by at about 9:25 to 9:30. We heard three go by that I can remember 2 were within 30 seconds or so of each other, the other was a couple of minutes later and sounded further away. After that there was no commercial planes in the air...it was very quite. I know someone that worked at WPAFB all there life and said they locked the place down and he heard jets being scrambled, but I don't have the time frame for that. Sad day.
But government will tell us it took almost an hour for any planes to get in the air.

Nice eyewitness report, could you post an exact time and place?

FWIW I think the same thing happened, they got a heat seeker right up the exhaust.

Know when that happened?

When it became clear that the passengers got hold of the flight deck, that there would be at least one "terrorist" left alive to run his mouth and that Flight 93's target, most likely the White House or Capitol Building would not end up getting hit.

"Whiskey Tango Foxtrot four four niner, this is Crystal Palace, smoke the eastbound United heavy, repeat, smoke the eastbound United heavy, confirm."

[Anti Federalist]

I honestly can't remember the exact time, it was after the second tower was hit, we left the site at about 10:00am so I'm guessing it was about a half an hour before that we heard the fighters whizzing by, we were in the general location of where that plane did its u-turn and head back across PA. So, my best guess they went by at about 9:25 to 9:30. We heard three go by that I can remember 2 were within 30 seconds or so of each other, the other was a couple of minutes later and sounded further away. After that there was no commercial planes in the air...it was very quite. I know someone that worked at WPAFB all there life and said they locked the place down and he heard jets being scrambled, but I don't have the time frame for that. Sad day.

Thank you for that information, it's appreciated.

[Kludge]

So I go to RPFs to hear what Ron Paul folks have to say on the TSA scans.

Of course, the argument is over what happened on 9/11.

[Anti Federalist]

So I go to RPFs to hear what Ron Paul folks have to say on the TSA scans.

Of course, the argument is over what happened on 9/11.

Wah wah...Good god, there's a thousand threads on TSA.:rolleyes:;)

But of course, some of us will get dragged into a 9/11 discussion.

If it wasn't for 9/11 there would be no TSA.

[sofia]

Wah wah...Good god, there's a thousand threads on TSA.:rolleyes:;)

But of course, some of us will get dragged into a 9/11 discussion.

If it wasn't for 9/11 there would be no TSA.

9/11 is the mother of the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the attacks on Pakistan, the coming war with Iran, The Dept of Homeland Security, the TSA, the Patriot Act, the military tribunals, the porno scanners and gropers, much of the annual budget deficit and so much more.....

until 9/11 is exposed as the FRAUD that it is......none of the above obscenities can ever be undone.

[Bruno]

So I go to RPFs to hear what Ron Paul folks have to say on the TSA scans.

Of course, the argument is over what happened on 9/11.

To be fair, there were two replies in this thread before that occured. :D