johnwk
11-20-2010, 06:09 PM
SEE: Fair Tax Challenge (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,602003,00.html)
“Here’s my offer. I offer to debate any of the Democrat candidates who dare on the Fair Tax. Before one of them accepts, I hope they will at least take the time to know what the heck they’re talking about. I’ll welcome the debate but I would not want to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.”
Well Mr. Huckabee, I would not lower myself by associating with the Democrat party to take up your offer but I would love to arm you with truth and facts concerning the alleged fair tax. As a venue, I am willing to meet you at anyone of the various forums I visit under the name johnwk.
As a start, I would like to agree with you that the alleged fair tax is one of the current tax proposals that even I have “thoroughly researched”, and have concluded there seems to be two versions of the proposal. There is a fairy-tale version which is offered to the public by its primary advocates, such as you, and, there is the actual TEXT OF THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION, H.R.25 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.25:..), which is what I rely upon an have armed myself with. Let us not forget the wisdom of Tea Party Activists when Obama-care was being debated for passage. They continually stated “read the bill”, and that is why I do not rely upon your fairy-tale version of the alleged fair tax.
You say it is “dishonest or just plain dumb” when opponents of the alleged fair tax claim it will raise taxes. You say, “The Fair Tax doesn't RAISE taxes; it REPLACES taxes on our productivity with a tax on consumption.”
The truth is, the alleged fair tax is a proposal to impose a general tax among the States upon newly created property, with an additional 23 percent tax upon the property which working people have in their labor!
Here are some specific provisions from the text of H.R.25
SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.
`(d) Liability for Tax-
`(1) IN GENERAL- The person using or consuming taxable property or services in the United States is liable for the tax imposed by this section, except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection.
`(2) EXCEPTION WHERE TAX PAID TO SELLER-A person using or consuming a taxable property or service in the United States is not liable for the tax imposed by this section if the person pays the tax to a person selling the taxable property or service and receives from such person a purchaser's receipt within the meaning of section 510.
`(f) Barter Transactions- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased
`(a) In General- Any person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to section 103(a) who is engaged in a trade or business shall register as a seller with the sales tax administering authority administering the taxes imposed by this subtitle.
Now let us examine how this tax upon “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people. Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.
Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event, and, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal sales tax returns under the penalty of perjury, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.
Funny thing Mr. Huckabee, our founding fathers, during the Constitutional Convention of 1787, were fully aware of your progressive type of tax under which the people of those States who, although they may contribute the lion’s share into the federal treasury, would be denied a proportionate vote in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution when it came time to spending from the federal treasury . And this is the very reason for our founding fathers demanding in our Constitution that No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
The intentions of our founding fathers were, in a nutshell, if Congress did not raise sufficient revenue from imposts and duties at our water’s edge, nor from internal “excise” taxes imposed upon “judiciously selected” articles of consumption, preferable articles of luxury, and found it necessary to go to the people of the states directly by imposing a general tax among the States, the rule of apportionment would be strictly observed which predetermines each State’s share of a total sum being raised under the general tax being imposed.
Considering subsequent amendments to our Constitution, the rule of apportionment as applied to any general tax may be represented as follows :
State`s population
_________________ X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S SHARE OF TAX
Total U.S. Population
Of course, our progressive gang during the early 1900’s were successful in subjugating the rule of apportionment as applied to “incomes” with the adoption of the 16th Amendment. And now they are back to complete their attack upon the rule of apportionment with a general tax which proposes to reach the people’s property, whether real or personal.
Tell us Mr. Huckabee, are we to simply forget the wisdom and clear intentions stated by our founding fathers when it comes to the alleged fair tax, which is a general tax imposed among the States and would complete the progressive‘s attack upon the rule of apportionment? And just what did our founding fathers say with respect to the type of tax you support?
“The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil 3 Elliot‘s, 243 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=254&itemLink), “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot‘s, 244 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=255&itemLink)
Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public." 3 Elliot, 255 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=266&itemLink)
Bottom line is, Mr. Huckabee, the un-constitutional tax you support is another progressive’s attack upon the rule of apportionment and that does not even take into account that the proposal would create a massive and dependent voting constituency for OUR PROGRESSIVE GANG ON CAPITOL HILL (http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?ContentID=166&ParentID=0&SectionID=4&SectionTree=4&lnk=b&ItemID=164) under its family consumption entitlement not to mention how it cleverly keeps alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains and how it would unduly burden our nation’s elderly by rationing an untaxed supply of necessities of life, which are a few additional objections to your tax .
In closing Mr. Huckabee, that’s my view and if you object bring it on! But if you are really serious about tax reform, my suggestion is to adopt the following 32 words into our Constitution which would bring us back to our founding fathers ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.org/?p=1360), as they intended it to operate:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
JWK
If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption allowance] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and business has earned.
“Here’s my offer. I offer to debate any of the Democrat candidates who dare on the Fair Tax. Before one of them accepts, I hope they will at least take the time to know what the heck they’re talking about. I’ll welcome the debate but I would not want to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.”
Well Mr. Huckabee, I would not lower myself by associating with the Democrat party to take up your offer but I would love to arm you with truth and facts concerning the alleged fair tax. As a venue, I am willing to meet you at anyone of the various forums I visit under the name johnwk.
As a start, I would like to agree with you that the alleged fair tax is one of the current tax proposals that even I have “thoroughly researched”, and have concluded there seems to be two versions of the proposal. There is a fairy-tale version which is offered to the public by its primary advocates, such as you, and, there is the actual TEXT OF THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION, H.R.25 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.25:..), which is what I rely upon an have armed myself with. Let us not forget the wisdom of Tea Party Activists when Obama-care was being debated for passage. They continually stated “read the bill”, and that is why I do not rely upon your fairy-tale version of the alleged fair tax.
You say it is “dishonest or just plain dumb” when opponents of the alleged fair tax claim it will raise taxes. You say, “The Fair Tax doesn't RAISE taxes; it REPLACES taxes on our productivity with a tax on consumption.”
The truth is, the alleged fair tax is a proposal to impose a general tax among the States upon newly created property, with an additional 23 percent tax upon the property which working people have in their labor!
Here are some specific provisions from the text of H.R.25
SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.
`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.
`(d) Liability for Tax-
`(1) IN GENERAL- The person using or consuming taxable property or services in the United States is liable for the tax imposed by this section, except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection.
`(2) EXCEPTION WHERE TAX PAID TO SELLER-A person using or consuming a taxable property or service in the United States is not liable for the tax imposed by this section if the person pays the tax to a person selling the taxable property or service and receives from such person a purchaser's receipt within the meaning of section 510.
`(f) Barter Transactions- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased
`(a) In General- Any person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to section 103(a) who is engaged in a trade or business shall register as a seller with the sales tax administering authority administering the taxes imposed by this subtitle.
Now let us examine how this tax upon “property” would affect Mary and Joe Sixpack, ordinary working people. Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.
Under the alleged fair tax Mary and Joe Sixpack’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event, and, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a federal tax for Congress, file federal sales tax returns under the penalty of perjury, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up, not to mention the threat of audits which will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor.
Funny thing Mr. Huckabee, our founding fathers, during the Constitutional Convention of 1787, were fully aware of your progressive type of tax under which the people of those States who, although they may contribute the lion’s share into the federal treasury, would be denied a proportionate vote in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution when it came time to spending from the federal treasury . And this is the very reason for our founding fathers demanding in our Constitution that No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
The intentions of our founding fathers were, in a nutshell, if Congress did not raise sufficient revenue from imposts and duties at our water’s edge, nor from internal “excise” taxes imposed upon “judiciously selected” articles of consumption, preferable articles of luxury, and found it necessary to go to the people of the states directly by imposing a general tax among the States, the rule of apportionment would be strictly observed which predetermines each State’s share of a total sum being raised under the general tax being imposed.
Considering subsequent amendments to our Constitution, the rule of apportionment as applied to any general tax may be represented as follows :
State`s population
_________________ X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S SHARE OF TAX
Total U.S. Population
Of course, our progressive gang during the early 1900’s were successful in subjugating the rule of apportionment as applied to “incomes” with the adoption of the 16th Amendment. And now they are back to complete their attack upon the rule of apportionment with a general tax which proposes to reach the people’s property, whether real or personal.
Tell us Mr. Huckabee, are we to simply forget the wisdom and clear intentions stated by our founding fathers when it comes to the alleged fair tax, which is a general tax imposed among the States and would complete the progressive‘s attack upon the rule of apportionment? And just what did our founding fathers say with respect to the type of tax you support?
“The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil 3 Elliot‘s, 243 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=254&itemLink), “Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot‘s, 244 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=255&itemLink)
Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public." 3 Elliot, 255 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=lled&fileName=003/lled003.db&recNum=266&itemLink)
Bottom line is, Mr. Huckabee, the un-constitutional tax you support is another progressive’s attack upon the rule of apportionment and that does not even take into account that the proposal would create a massive and dependent voting constituency for OUR PROGRESSIVE GANG ON CAPITOL HILL (http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?ContentID=166&ParentID=0&SectionID=4&SectionTree=4&lnk=b&ItemID=164) under its family consumption entitlement not to mention how it cleverly keeps alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains and how it would unduly burden our nation’s elderly by rationing an untaxed supply of necessities of life, which are a few additional objections to your tax .
In closing Mr. Huckabee, that’s my view and if you object bring it on! But if you are really serious about tax reform, my suggestion is to adopt the following 32 words into our Constitution which would bring us back to our founding fathers ORIGINAL TAX PLAN (http://townshipnews.org/?p=1360), as they intended it to operate:
The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money
JWK
If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption allowance] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and business has earned.