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View Full Version : I have no clue what this V thing is-Should I care?




Nefertiti
10-20-2007, 03:22 PM
I really have no clue what this V for Vendetta thing associated with Nov. 5 is. I know about the donor drive but I have never heard of the film nor do I know anything about it nor why it is contentious. I've heard of Guy Fawkes but can't recall who he is. I'm completely out of the loop. Should I care? Should I bother to ask what it is about? Do I represent most Americans or not in being totally clueless what it is about? Is this really worth all the fighting that is going on? Is this really important in the big picture of things? Perhaps my cluelessness will help you all to see this from a more neutral perspective as it seems to be driving a wedge between people here.

DeadheadForPaul
10-20-2007, 03:26 PM
V for Vendetta involved a masked "freedom fighter" named V who blew up government buildings and sought to start a revolution against the government. V uses "Remember Remember the 5th of November" in reference to Guy Fawkes, who in the gunpowder plot, planned to blow up Parliament

Some of us think that linking Dr. Paul to V for Vendetta is bad for 2 reasons:
1.) Most people have never heard of it
2.) Dr. Paul does not advocate blowing up buildings (or assasinating media figures and politicians like V does)

twister5400
10-20-2007, 03:30 PM
i dont think this is really that big of a deal. the way i see it, those people who are huge v for vendetta fans are most likely thrilled with ron paul's message anyway... just rent the movie and watch it... its a great film... i doubt the media will make a big fit about it... they may try, but in the end, all they are really saying is, "ron paul raised a shit ton of money today"... the message gets through the bullshit

SwooshOU
10-20-2007, 03:31 PM
I had never heard of it either. But sure does seem controversial.

Hey, if a buncha people wanna give a hundred bucks to Ron Paul on November 5th, cool.

isufferfromronpaulfever
10-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Totally in favor of this. If the $$$ make sense, go for it!

I'm in for a 100$.

Danny Molina
10-20-2007, 03:53 PM
Wikipedia is your friend.

Kregener
10-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Good movie. Rent it an enjoy.

RoamZero
10-20-2007, 03:57 PM
Actually, I thought the movie was pretty awful..

Chrispy
10-20-2007, 03:59 PM
I hear by give this topic the arbitrary and unofficial AWARD FOR THE MOST UNNECESSARY THREADS PERTAINING TO A SINGLE FUND RAISING EVENT!

Danny Molina
10-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Actually, I thought the movie was pretty awful..

You've got to be kidding???

RonPaulCult
10-20-2007, 04:03 PM
Shit I didn't realize that (I hadn't seen the movie) and now I see why it's a bad idea to link the movie with this crap. I thought maybe Nov 5 was one year to the date of the 2008 election or something.

I still want 10,000 people to give 100 dollars on one day and I want to be one of those people but geez- I'm uneasy with this V thing.

jointhefightforfreedom
10-20-2007, 04:07 PM
I hear by give this topic the arbitrary and unofficial AWARD FOR THE MOST UNNECESSARY THREADS PERTAINING TO A SINGLE FUND RAISING EVENT!


LOL i agree!

hells_unicorn
10-20-2007, 04:07 PM
I'm a big fan of the movie. And for the record, the movie is a somewhat more Marvel Comic type take on the book 1984. There are two things to consider about both Guy Fawkes and V before you join the growing flock of whining pansies who are upset about this.

1. Guy Fawkes was a Catholic living in England in a time where Catholics were jailed and even killed at the caprice of the monarch in power and the aristocrats running parliament. Personally, if I was being persecuted by the government for my religious beliefs, I'd try to kill the people doing it. Anyone who buys into the notion that Ghandi's non-violence was what freed India is gloriously deluded and really needs to pick up a copy of Gore Vidal's "The Emperor" to acquaint themselves with true history. And if anyone truly thinks that Martin Luther King changed anything they need only spend a day in Northern Philadelphia.

2. V does not kill anyone because they had a different opinion on issues of the size of government, he killed people who were involved in performing Nazi-like experiments on and exterminated homosexuals, Muslims, drug addicts and other vulnerable minorities.

The media may lack perspective due to it's own stupidity, but the level of context dropping is so blatant that I doubt that anyone who is either familiar with the story of Guy Fawkes or saw V for Vendetta will be swayed by these halfwit reporters. And those who don't care will continue to not do so.

partypooper
10-20-2007, 04:09 PM
Shit I didn't realize that (I hadn't seen the movie) and now I see why it's a bad idea to link the movie with this crap. I thought maybe Nov 5 was one year to the date of the 2008 election or something.

I still want 10,000 people to give 100 dollars on one day and I want to be one of those people but geez- I'm uneasy with this V thing.

then donate now so that we can meet at least one goal set by the campaign.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=26948

wsc321
10-20-2007, 04:13 PM
I think associating the RP campaign with the V for Vendetta movie is a bad idea. I think the media will try hard to exploit it and smear Ron.

I like the movie - and I've signed up for the Nov 5th pledge. But I'm now reconsidering, so I'll probably give on the 4th or... whenever the other folks that are similarly concerned give.

I understand there's no harm intended - and I've got no *personal* issue with the idea. But I wouldn't put anything past the media in terms of being unfair, and we've got to keep 100% serious about this: RP is a candidate like we haven't seen in a long, long time. He is against forces that will oppose his candidacy with everything they've got. So - we must be super careful to not give any ammo.

You know - some folks on this forum complain about certain RP supporters being paranoid or too quick to suppose a conspiracy is behind everything. That can be a fair criticism. But there's another side to that coin: it's patently naive, in my opinion, to suggest that RP won't encounter extra resistance and resentment from power brokers. What RP faces is more than just resistance due to having a different set of positions from the other mainstream candidates. RP is against the FED and the IRS for cryin' out loud. Be reasonable - this will be the toughest political fight this generation has ever seen, and we can't let up for a minute.

RoamZero
10-20-2007, 04:15 PM
You've got to be kidding???

I thought the movie had some good moments, and an interesting theme, but the sum of its parts just dont make for a good movie overall. It's full of Wachowski philosophical BS, the whole Evey torture portion was laughable, plot holes here and there, and it felt kind of cartoony.

wsc321
10-20-2007, 04:16 PM
growing flock of whining pansies who are upset about this.

Get over yourself. That type of name calling is the operational norm for Ron Paul's opposition - not his supporters. Go cool off and come back to this forum when you can be respectful. Good Americans should be able to disagree on an issue without name calling.

TheIndependent
10-20-2007, 04:32 PM
You've got to be kidding???

Compared to the graphic novel, no, it wasn't all that great. If you haven't read Alan Moore's original version, you probably should.

ItsTime
10-20-2007, 04:34 PM
Says the person named "RonPaulCULT" what an awful name. But to each his own.


Shit I didn't realize that (I hadn't seen the movie) and now I see why it's a bad idea to link the movie with this crap. I thought maybe Nov 5 was one year to the date of the 2008 election or something.

I still want 10,000 people to give 100 dollars on one day and I want to be one of those people but geez- I'm uneasy with this V thing.

Seth M.
10-20-2007, 04:37 PM
I hear by give this topic the arbitrary and unofficial AWARD FOR THE MOST UNNECESSARY THREADS PERTAINING TO A SINGLE FUND RAISING EVENT!


Here here

plopolp
10-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Hey, this is a subculture thing. It's only good to adopt the FORM of message of freedom differently to different audiences. V-people, marijuana-people, IRS-people whatever.

It's not like Mitt Romney changing his standpoints according to the views of the current audience. This 5th November thing is about marketing the idea. MSM always have the power to misrepresent things. No action can eliminate that power. We can't adopt our marketing strategy according to their ability to misrepresent. This 5th November thing is, as I understand it, an unendorsed manifestation for freedom according to some peoples view of freedom with reference to an event which took place 400 years ago and in realation to a fairly recent movie about it.

Pray for freedom. Walk for freedom. Strip for freedom. Do what you like for freedom!

Ozwest
10-20-2007, 04:44 PM
It's a damn good movie. Those of you who haven't seen it would most likely enjoy it. Why some parrot the Malkins of this world amazes me. What is achieved by following their political agenda?

manny
10-20-2007, 05:53 PM
I saw the film and thought it was ok, if entirely predictable. I would consider myself a very political person but my most enduring feeling from the film has been that Natalie Portman seems to get more beautiful with every passing year. Anyone here from NYC who has met her?

Back on subject... I say anyone donating to RP is cool. And if people don't like the idea of Nov 5th attracting too much attention they can donate on Nov 4th and it will all just look like one big upward swing :)

TyTodd
10-20-2007, 06:19 PM
V for Vendetta is a good movie and great graphic novel, so you should definitely check them out if you aren't aware of the original material. That said...

I'm donating $25 to the campaign right now in a request that we stop talking about this issue! The Nov. 5th concept is a cool idea. If there are those of us that might like to see it pulled off with less of the V reference, it ain't going to happen, and since this is an independent effort the man / woman behind the fundraiser has every right to promote it as they see fit. Now, let's stop all the bitchin' on both sides and move forward. If there is one thing we ALL agree on, it's that it will take a tremendous effort to get our beloved Dr. Paul into the White House, where we truly need him!

By the way, I'm posting this in all of the '5th' threads, and I would suggest that anyone else tired of this issue help me cap the threads out with donation messages...

<Thank you very much for your donation of $25.00 to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign...

Your confirmation number:
T64064-97181303.>

tnvoter
10-20-2007, 06:32 PM
If you see the movie, you wouldn't be worried so much about it. It's a pretty good one.

koob
10-20-2007, 07:14 PM
wasn't guy fawkes considered a terrorist?

Ozwest
10-20-2007, 07:17 PM
wasn't guy fawkes considered a terrorist?

Guy Fawkes is a hero in the U.K. They have huge bonfires on Guy Fawkes night. Google it.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Guy Fawkes is a hero in the U.K. They have huge bonfires on Guy Fawkes night. Google it.

False.

They have huge bonfires to commemorate his failure, and they burn Guy Fawkes in effigy.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:27 PM
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/11/GUYFAWK_287x450.jpg

robatsu
10-20-2007, 07:32 PM
Prior to the bonfires, the little kids go running around (or they did many years ago during a visit to Portsmouth Naval Base that I made) begging for money to help them make an effigy. You have these swarms of kids coming up to you, their war cry is, "A penny for the Guy?". That's when I learned about Guy Fawkes day, haven't thought much about it since.

koob
10-20-2007, 07:33 PM
False.

They have huge bonfires to commemorate his failure, and they burn Guy Fawkes in effigy.

okay, so can we agree that he is a controversial figure? i don't know about this. i really don't want to associate ron paul with this guy. kind of scares me.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:35 PM
okay, so can we agree that he is a controversial figure? i don't know about this. i really don't want to associate ron paul with this guy. kind of scares me.

I don't think it's a big deal, considering most Americans don't even know who he is. If the November 5 fundraising drive gets people motivated to donate, it's fine by me.

I just want to bring a little historical perspective to those who think that Guy Fawkes was some kind of hero fighting for Liberty because of what they saw in a Hollywood movie or read in a comic book.

Ozwest
10-20-2007, 07:40 PM
False.

They have huge bonfires to commemorate his failure, and they burn Guy Fawkes in effigy.

I stand corrected. I was always under the impression it was one big party. Still, now days, the whole thing is more of a farce because of the fire than a big cause. Next time I'LL Google... I may come back with a retort once I've researched.

koob
10-20-2007, 07:42 PM
I don't think it's a big deal, considering most Americans don't even know who he is. If the November 5 fundraising drive gets people motivated to donate, it's fine by me.

I just want to bring a little historical perspective to those who think that Guy Fawkes was some kind of hero fighting for Liberty because of what they saw in a Hollywood movie or read in a comic book.


Most americans DO know of the movie v for vendetta. i didn't know about the fifth of november being significant until that movie came out. i'm sure i'm not alone.

i can see your point that if it raises money, who cares. but i don't know. a lot of republicans who know of ron paul but don't support him view him as extreme. i don't see how to change the image of him.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:45 PM
I stand corrected. I was always under the impression it was one big party. Still, now days, the whole thing is more of a farce because of the fire than a big cause.


Yeah, that's pretty much the case. It is just a party, and he's not really loathed; he's more of a mythologized boogeyman figure.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:46 PM
Most americans DO know of the movie v for vendetta. i didn't know about the fifth of november being significant until that movie came out. i'm sure i'm not alone.

I guess I'm going to have to watch it.



i can see your point that if it raises money, who cares. but i don't know. a lot of republicans who know of ron paul but don't support him view him as extreme. i don't see how to change the image of him.

Keep donating and getting others to donate, and he'll do the hard work of winning hearts and minds on his own.

Ozwest
10-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Spirit of 76, A very quick search yields some conflicting opinions on Mr. Fawkes. It is only natural that the aristocracy of the time should condemn him, and they did... Nonetheless you were correct in your characterization of Guy Fawkes night.

Nathan Hale
10-20-2007, 07:58 PM
V for Vendetta involved a masked "freedom fighter" named V who blew up government buildings and sought to start a revolution against the government. V uses "Remember Remember the 5th of November" in reference to Guy Fawkes, who in the gunpowder plot, planned to blow up Parliament

Some of us think that linking Dr. Paul to V for Vendetta is bad for 2 reasons:
1.) Most people have never heard of it
2.) Dr. Paul does not advocate blowing up buildings (or assasinating media figures and politicians like V does)

And it doesn't help that V for Vendetta was a horrible, overrated movie.

Spirit of '76
10-20-2007, 07:59 PM
Spirit of 76, A very quick search yields some conflicting opinions on Mr. Fawkes.

Of course. This is history we're talking about. :)

TheIndependent
10-20-2007, 08:02 PM
And it doesn't help that V for Vendetta was a horrible, overrated movie.

Seriously. The original graphic novel by Alan Moore beats it hands-down, but has less relevance in some ways than the movie tries to.

Man from La Mancha
10-20-2007, 08:06 PM
And it doesn't help that V for Vendetta was a horrible, overrated movie. I agree with you about using V, but I guess I'm "unsophisticated", I loved the movie for it's freedom message and the acting and action. At the end of the movie, it showed the all the people walking by the solders refusing to harm them, a good non violence message.

.

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10-20-2007, 08:12 PM
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hells_unicorn
10-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Get over yourself. That type of name calling is the operational norm for Ron Paul's opposition - not his supporters. Go cool off and come back to this forum when you can be respectful. Good Americans should be able to disagree on an issue without name calling.

Good Americans speak their minds, and that is my thought of all the people whining about this. I barely come to this forum anymore precisely because of all this ridiculous negativity, not to mention the arrogance of people who think that their aristocratic sense of properness gives them some moral high ground over others. So, in response, I will ask you to "Get over yourself."

Nathan Hale
10-21-2007, 08:40 PM
I agree with you about using V, but I guess I'm "unsophisticated", I loved the movie for it's freedom message and the acting and action. At the end of the movie, it showed the all the people walking by the solders refusing to harm them, a good non violence message.


You liked the movie for a few reasons, and I'll respond to each reason in turn:

1) Freedom message - V dropped the ball. I came out thinking that the main character's tragic past played more of a role in his motivation than any ideological reason. It was, as the title suggests, a "vendetta", not a moral crusade. Sure he talks about freedom, but he talks about it for the wrong reasons, and the "freedom" he talks about is only presented in a limited context against specific militaristic actions.

2) Acting - I must have missed the good acting.

3) Action - There was very little action in this supposed action movie. We got a quick five second ginsu fest after his television broadcast, and the totally outlandish and unrealistic slaughter in the very end.

4) Non violent ending - I agree that the people walking by the soldiers was nice, but that message of non violence was undercut by the tremendous violence with which V brings down the regime. Were it not for V's violence, there wouldn't be any non violent resistance. So I found the presentation of non violence to be very inconsistent.