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Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 03:07 PM
With Rand's major defeat of the establishment GOP in Kentucky's US Senate race earlier this month, Kentucky is suddenly ground zero for the national liberty movement. We all thought it'd be Montana, or New Hampshire, or Arizona, but it's Kentucky. Of all of the liberty candidates in the mid term elections, Rand had the highest profile, and he was the big winner on November 2nd. We worked very hard in Kentucky to make that happen, and it absolutely couldn't have happened without the national financial support that Rand had. Thank you all!

Let's be honest. There were many good and great liberty candidates worthy of our support this year, but Rand's last name conveyed a huge advantage. Rand was able to raise money in the early days of his campaign, so the media was unable to dismiss him. He was able to buy the materials needed to kick start his campaign and win over the critical early converts who influence others. It's hard for us to do our grassroots activism without bumper stickers, yard signs and push cards.

Kentucky is not an affluent state. In fact, we have an amendment to our state constitution that requires a balanced budget, but our legislators balance the budget with bond debt. It makes no sense, but it's politics, so we can't expect it to be logical. Kentucky has the highest debt to GDP ratio of all 50 states according to USDebtClock.org. We're in a real mess, but that puts us in a great position to demonstrate what true liberty can do. We could quickly become the example for your state. If liberty can fix Kentucky's problems, it can work anywhere.

We campaigned hard for 20 months to elect Rand. Thanks in no small part to the education we did during that long campaign, Kentuckians are absolutely fed up with government-as-usual. We have a strong TEA party presence in our state, and they're serious liberty lovers who are rapidly becoming true believers in the gospel according to Paul.

We're now in a great position to elect a liberty governor! Unlike US Senate races, gubernatorial races are almost always local events. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for liberty in Kentucky this year. We're all strapped after the Rand campaign. We gave it all of the time and money we could spare, and then some. Judging from the results, it was worth it, but it leaves us weakened to the point that we can't continue to push the momentum we built in the last two years as we should. We have a great opportunity to elect a rock solid liberty governor, but if we don't act now we'll lose that opportunity. If we can follow up on the big Rand win, we can leverage liberty into the prominent political scene where it will spread like wildfire across the nation. Like Ron says, freedom is popular!

Phil Moffett is a great liberty candidate. I knew we could elect Rand when we started in March of 2009, and I feel even more strongly about our chances to elect Phil this year. He's extremely electable. He's intelligent, articulate, humble, soft spoken, and absolutely teeming with liberty. Like Rand, when people hear him speak, they know he's not a career politician, and they immediately like him and want to vote for him.

Phil will be running in the Republican primary against David Williams, the Senate President of the Kentucky State Legislature. David Williams has been trying hard to position himself as the TEA Party candidate, and every time he says that, we've been there to yell back a resounding NO! It's back firing on him. Voters who didn't know that David Williams presided over the biggest debt financed government spending in Kentucky history are learning about it from us. Williams was at Rand's victory party, where he was a pariah. He might as well have had leprosy. Nobody would get within ten feet of him, and he looked like someone killed his dog. It'd be sad if he didn't deserve the ostracism and worse for what he's done to our state. Unfortunately, like Trey Grayson, David Williams will have the support of the establishment Republican Party, and those weasels have very deep pockets. Like Trey Grayson, Williams will lose when liberty prevails in the May primary.

After Phil defeats Williams in the Republican primary, he'll be facing our current governor, Steve Beshear. Beshear is a Kentucky socialist. He's all about big government and curtailing individual rights, but like Jack Conway, he pretends to be a moderate and a conservative Blue Dog Democrat. So, what's he really like? A few days after Rand won our US Senate seat, Beshear called a secret meeting with his cabinet and sympathetic law enforcement personnel from around the state to discuss what they're going to do to control the TEA Party movement. He has no trouble using the power of the state to squash grassroots opposition to big government. Welcome to Kentucky Fried Tyranny.

So much for the opposition, but who's playing on the home team? Phil's campaign manager is David Adams. He was Rand's campaign manager during the long primary, where Rand went from an unknown ophthalmologist in the far western end of the state, to being up 30 points in the polls and a household name. I think David started off as a liberty leaning fiscal conservative, but he rubbed up against liberty a lot during the Rand campaign, and it rubbed off on him. He not only sees the political advantages of liberty in the current political climate, but he has fully integrated it into his beliefs. He gets it. He stays in touch with Kentucky liberty advocates daily, and he delights in every liberty victory.

For the Paulians in Kentucky, this race is our Valley Forge. We're seasoned liberty fighters with a very good track record. We just fought long and hard. We're tired and stretched thin. We had a major victory, but we're facing a long cold winter. We're fiercely determined, but we need some fresh supplies to continue the fight. There's a critical battle coming in the national war for the restoration of our liberty, and we mean to win it. We could really use your help. We don't need a long term commitment. We don't need a lot. $20 from you and 500 other liberty lovers across the nation would jump start Phil's campaign at this critical juncture.

Please, read about Phil Moffett on his website, and click to make a donation if you can. I guarantee you that it's a great investment in liberty, and we'll do everything we can to win this. When we do, you'll be repaid with interest when it becomes that much easier to advocate for liberty in your state, and we'll be in a better position to donate to your liberty candidates.

http://www.PhilMoffett.com

Can we have a Liberty Smart Bomb for Phil Moffett, starting now and culminating on the 100th anniversary of the founding of The Fed, this Monday, November 22nd? Just go to Phil's website, read about him, and drop a little liberty love offering on him. It's for a great cause. Thanks.


Sincerely,

Bruce Layne (aka Liberty4Ever)
Kentucky Campaign For Liberty 6th District Coordinator
Lexington Kentucky

Sola_Fide
11-18-2010, 03:24 PM
Bruce,

We here in northern Kentucky have been hearing a lot of good things about Phil Moffet. He definitely has our Tea Party group's support up here in Oldham-Trimble-Henry counties.

Beshear is really vunerable. We could pull this off.

Sola_Fide
11-18-2010, 03:31 PM
BUMP



Check out Phil Moffett guys...

http://www.PhilMoffett.com/issues/





The Obama administration continues to expand the federal government’s size, power, and debt, at the direct expense of our personal liberties. Kentucky needs to exercise the rights granted to states in the 9th and 10th amendments of the US Constitution. The Moffett/Harmon administration will review federal laws and regulations to determine if they are compliant with the US Constitution and Commonwealth’s Constitution. If they do not pass muster, we will protect our citizens by fighting against them.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 03:49 PM
Moffett seems like a nice guy, but has campaign appears to be failing when it comes to gaining traction and raising money.


If I had to vote today, I think I would vote for him, but I'd like to hear more about Moffett, Williams and hopefully other GOP candidates.

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Here's what we're up against. The establishment GOP is morally bankrupt, but they still have deep pockets. A reporter just asked Phil's campaign manager about claims David Williams raised $500k last night in Lexington. Here's his response.


"David Williams is going to need every dime of that and much more to try to hide his record of increasing taxes, growing the state debt and recklessly raiding the public pension and healthcare plans of billions of dollars. I'm calling his event the Credit Card Carnival. Did they have funnel cakes?"

MRoCkEd
11-18-2010, 03:53 PM
I hope the Moffett campaign has a serious strategy for making money. He will not have the benefits Rand started out with. If David Adams is counting on raising funds through RPF moneybombs, the race is already over.

He seems to be a good guy, so best of luck to him. He needs big endorsements and connections, fast. I know Rand said he is not weighing in on the primary, but I would hope he does if Phil proves himself as a true defender of freedom.

specsaregood
11-18-2010, 03:54 PM
Between Moffett and Williams. Which worked harder or was a bigger help in getting Rand elected Senator?

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 03:55 PM
So, if David thinks Phil can raise funds through moneybombs, the race is already over.



QFT

I'll go one step more......


If Moffett can't self-fund the bulk of his campaign - it's over.


Rand had mailers going to voters roughly one-year before the election, Moffett cannot afford to wait (the election is 6 months away).

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 03:57 PM
Between Moffett and Williams. Which worked harder or was a bigger help in getting Rand elected Senator?

David Adams (in the primary). :D


Williams helped when other establishment types wouldn't - before primary victory!

specsaregood
11-18-2010, 04:04 PM
David Adams (in the primary). :D
Williams helped when other establishment types wouldn't - before primary victory!

Right, I didn't ask about Adams. He is just a hired gun.

So between Moffett and Williams, the answer is Williams?

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 04:09 PM
Right, I didn't ask about Adams. He is just a hired gun.


I posted the smiley, to point out the humor of my joke, in case you missed it.



So between Moffett and Williams, the answer is Williams?

I know he helped out early (Williams). But .. really besides helping raise money, I'm not sure what Moffett could have done - he's not a "name" or anything.

specsaregood
11-18-2010, 04:14 PM
I posted the smiley, to point out the humor of my joke, in case you missed it.

Yeah, I got it. I just intentionally didn't mention Adams since the OP used that as a plus/talking point for support of Moffett. and I consider adams as nothing more than a previous employee.



I know he helped out early. But .. really besides helping raise money, I'm not sure what Moffett could have done - he's not a "name" or anything.
Did he knock on doors? Make phone calls? Put up signs? Donate to rand's campaign early on? ie: did he support of Rand in anyway? Or is he purely a johnny come lately....

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 04:16 PM
Donate to rand's campaign early on?

No, Moffett donated rather heavily right at the end, I think.

Not sure about the other stuff.....

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 04:29 PM
David Williams helped a lot late in Rand's primary. He helped himself by hanging around the Rand campaign! He was hoping some of the TEA Party magic we made would rub off on him, as if Kentuckians are too stupid to see that Williams is the very antithesis of the fiscally conservative TEA Party message, and he's certainly not a liberty candidate!

Phil and David are in San Diego today, at a Republican governor's conference. They're making the right contacts and doing as much as they can to pull in some big money sooner rather than later.

Phil is a successful businessman, just as Rand is a successful businessman. Neither could afford millions of dollars to self fund their campaigns. Neither had the initial support of the establishment. Like Rand, Phil will have the financial support of the establishment after he wins the primary. Like Rand, Phil needs a little boost to jump start his campaign. Once it's rolling, nothing succeeds like success, and it'll fund itself. Phil needs grassroots support now.

Two nights ago, we were at our top secret undisclosed location (OK, it's a barn) cutting up leftover 4X8 signs from the election that just ended, and I'm laser cutting a template tonight to spray 540 of the 2X4 Moffett For Governor signs that we're recycling. We're doing the work on this campaign, just like we did with Rand in the beginning, when I laser printed 38,400 Bernanke Bucks and a ton of other grassroots campaign materials until the campaign could afford the good stuff.

The only question is, will the national liberty grassroots invest, even a little bit, in getting another super liberty candidate elected in Kentucky? If not, we'll work our butts off and probably end up with Williams or Beshear as governor. That's not in the best interest of liberty. Not even close. :(

If you like Nikki Haley as the new governor in South Carolina, you'll LOVE Phil Moffett.

I urge you to please read Phil's Issues page. Decide for yourself if he is the kind of candidate that you want to support. If you like the idea of electing someone like Phil instead of the establishment R or the establishment D, then send him $10 or $20, and you'll have the gratitude of your hardworking liberty grassroots brothers and sisters in Kentucky. Please help us build on our success with Rand.

With Ron running for president in 2012, we're going to be exhausted! We did take a few hours of our Moffett For Governor race to do the sign waving for Ron Paul as part of the national effort. Rand's win definitely helps with Ron in 2012. You're welcome! :)

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 04:49 PM
If Moffett can't self-fund the bulk of his campaign - it's over.


That's absolutely not true, and shame on you for raining on our liberty parade.

Phil Moffett has earned the respect of the grassroots liberty activists in Kentucky. David Williams and Steve Beshear have earned our wrath.

Millions of dollars aren't going to hide David Williams' profligate voting record, and We the People in Kentucky are sick of it!

No offense, but I'm here on the front lines in this battle, and you aren't. We learned a lot in Ron's 2008 campaign and even more in Rand's 2010 campaign. There aren't many of us, but we wield a lot of political clout. It doesn't take a majority. It takes a tireless minority, setting liberty brush fires in the heads and hearts of our countrymen. That's our job.

Hopefully, we can get a tiny portion of the financial help we needed to elect Rand. In many ways, Phil's campaign is a lot easier. We just need a little help over the hump, and that's right now. Then, you can sit back and watch your $20 liberty investment grow into a strong liberty tree in the Liberty Forest, where it will bear some sweet fruit for many years.

Modern_Matthew
11-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Not sure if I want a governor that could potentially lay off a bunch of state workers.

My current living situation depends on the salary of a state worker (my father) to keep a roof over my head.

Livelihood over principle in this case. Not going to lie or sugar coat. It's just how things are in this economy.

Thomas
11-18-2010, 04:52 PM
i support Moffet

specsaregood
11-18-2010, 04:52 PM
No offense, but I'm here on the front lines in this battle, and you aren't.

Now that ^ is funny. Nope, "thedriver" sure isn't on the front lines. lol. :rolleyes:

Sola_Fide
11-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Not sure if I want a governor that could potentially lay off a bunch of state workers.

My current living situation depends on the salary of a state worker (my father) to keep a roof over my head.

Livelihood over principle in this case. Not going to lie or sugar coat. It's just how things are in this economy.



????????

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 05:04 PM
David Williams helped a lot late in Rand's primary. He helped himself by hanging around the Rand campaign! He was hoping some of the TEA Party magic we made would rub off on him, as if Kentuckians are too stupid to see that Williams is the very antithesis of the fiscally conservative TEA Party message, and he's certainly not a liberty candidate!


Wiliams also helped before Moffett, I see you failed to mention that.


Just keeping it honest......

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Not sure if I want a governor that could potentially lay off a bunch of state workers.

My current living situation depends on the salary of a state worker (my father) to keep a roof over my head.

Livelihood over principle in this case. Not going to lie or sugar coat. It's just how things are in this economy.

Well, at least you were honest about your motivations. It is a tough economy.

It's a tough economy because The Fed and our governments have colluded to destroy our free market economy. The government is killing the goose that lays their golden eggs. They can't keep taxing and spending, more and more, indefinitely.

Here's a quote from Phil Moffett's Issues page, as linked earlier in this thread.



Our Commonwealth is drowning in debt. We have over $7 billion in authorized debt. Additionally, we have a $30+ billion underfunded state employee retirement fund. This debt hole is getting deeper by the day and there is no plan in place to stop it.

The Moffett/Harmon administration will appoint a “military base-closing” style commission to look into every corner of state government.

The commission will be chartered with consolidating back office functions and cabinets, eliminating unnecessary programs, and outsource as many state services as possible.

The savings realized from the commission will be used to eliminate our debt and shore up the pension plan.

So, based on the long term revenue shortfall and rapidly approaching economic crisis in Kentucky, you'd recommend we keep our Too Big Not To Fail state government?

The Moffett plan would be our best chance of honoring the state pensions that were robbed by previous administrations. You and your dad should appreciate that.

We can't keep spending ever more money that we don't have. We've overspent, and we're going to have some tough times. If we stick our heads in the sand and keep borrowing and spending, the times are going to be that much tougher.

Why not shrink state government, mostly through attrition? We certainly can't afford to keep growing it, and we're past the point of raising taxes some more as corporate and individual incomes plummet. We already have too much of a bad thing. We don't need any more.

Jeremy Tyler
11-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Moffett came and spoke to us at our SFL UofL meeting. He is a great guy. But I think his campaign is not being ran well currently. They just are not doing the necessary fundraising.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by TheDriver
If Moffett can't self-fund the bulk of his campaign - it's over.



That's absolutely not true, and shame on you for raining on our liberty parade.


That's just how I see it, sorry for raining on your "liberty parade."

If Moffett doesn't have a few hundred thousands dollars worth of mail going out soon, he'll never be anywhere near par with Williams in the polls, especially if more candidates jump in.

And I'm not talking about a poll that doesn't show him head-to-head with Williams. Anyone in Kentucky would poll 20% against Beshear.

Maybe Moffett can poll close to Williams in the GOP primary, if so, then I'm wrong. But if he is way behind Williams (like I expect), because he has no name i.d., then I'm afraid you're wrong, or in denial.

When's the first independent head-to-head poll coming out?

Agorism
11-18-2010, 05:16 PM
Keep in mind it's not just the message but the messenger so just because someone is a "liberty candidate" doesn't mean the people will automatically respect that person.

That's why Angle and others lost while Rand won.

Jeremy Tyler
11-18-2010, 05:16 PM
The driver is absolutely correct about self funding. He is right about the reason too. Moffett unfortunately has barely any name recognition. I don't like Williams at all, I like moffett. But I think David Adams waited too long to try and start fundraising.

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm glad the Driver said it so I didn't have to.

Moffett is not the same as Rand. Heck, he didn't campaign for Rand at all in the primary and he didn't donate till he was told he had to if he wanted to meet Palin. No thanks.

Plus he and Williams are about the same on social issues. Both are typical Neo-Cons there. Anti-Gambling, Anti-Med Marijuana and Anti-Legal Marijuana. They are lucky Gatewood has chosen the worse Lt. Gov option or I probably would not consider voting for Moffett.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 05:20 PM
But I think David Adams waited too long to try and start fundraising.

I'm sure it was tough with all the attention on the senate race.

A self-funder could be mailing the voters now asking for donations, while telling them a little something (non-controversial) about himself.

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 05:21 PM
Williams also helped before Moffett, I see you failed to mention that.

No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? It's not like he's undergone some radical philosophical change. He's still a neocon.

Williams is in a bit of a pickle now though. His votes in the Kentucky Senate were sold for his short term political gain, but they're currently working against him now that the voters of Kentucky have his number.


Just keeping it honest......
Uhh, that would be me, in this discussion.

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 05:27 PM
Moffett came and spoke to us at our SFL UofL meeting. He is a great guy. But I think his campaign is not being ran well currently. They just are not doing the necessary fundraising.
Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!

Fund raising isn't some esoteric thing. It comes from people. Hence this thread. :)

If you'd like to correct the fund raising deficit of this "great guy", please send him $10!

Yes, I see that you're in the Students For Liberty (sweet!), but after the back-to-back Ron and Rand campaigns, I'm probably so tapped out that your student budget would look pretty good to me!

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 05:27 PM
No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? It's not like he's undergone some radical philosophical change. He's still a neocon.

Williams is in a bit of a pickle now though. His votes in the Kentucky Senate were sold for his short term political gain, but they're currently working against him now that the voters of Kentucky have his number.


Uhh, that would be me, in this discussion.

Sorry dude. When Williams came out in the Primary.... it wasn't a for sure thing.

Also, Moffett was a no show in the primary. Again, Neither he nor Adams donated till they wanted to meet Palin. Also, it was his own campaign that convinced Coal Fed Families (Their blog) , Mica Sims (Herald Leader) and his own campaign manager (Gave an interview to Barefoot and Progressive?!?!) to cause trouble over Rand having Williams on the bus tour when Moffett was invited.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 05:35 PM
No, I think I covered that very well when I explained that David Williams did what was in the best political interest of David Williams, as he always seems to do. Does he get great credit for seeing that Rand was going to win late in the primary and doing his best to use that to his own political advantage? .

If you started helping Rand in late 2009, it's hard to say you're new to that party. So I respectively disagree with your assessment based on the time-frame, not on intent.

If Williams knew Rand was going to win in the fall of 2009 and made the right moves for his own political future, that appears to be more than Moffett did at the time (sad but true).

I realize you are biased against Williams, but don't let that bias cloud the truth. I don't think anyone is defending Williams or is pro-Williams on this forum. :o

P.S. Sorry for being a PITA, it just seems strange to me that Moffett waited till the very end to donate heavy to Rand, sorry.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!


I'll suggest a "Liberty Christmas Dinner."

Lexington (seems to be more central).

Have an admission fee (which would cover cost and still leave room for donation).

Come out and celebrate our liberty victory in the 2010 races, and meet Phil Moffett type of thing....


It's not much, but the best I have off the top of my head.

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 06:56 PM
If you started helping Rand in late 2009, it's hard to say you're new to that party.

I wouldn't say that MARCH of 2009 is "late 2009". :rolleyes:

Some of my Kentucky liberty friends knew Rand and encouraged him to run. He was initially reluctant, as many great candidates are. We were all enthusiastic and supportive in our own way, very early. I had my first Rand Paul gun show in March of 2009, and I consider that the start of my public Rand campaigning, which made for a grueling 14 month primary. We had done a lot of planning prior to that, and I designed and printed campaign literature back then when the official campaign said it was too early for that, when there wasn't money for such things... which is similar to where Phil Moffett's campaign is now.

Jeremy Tyler
11-18-2010, 09:06 PM
Any suggestions you have would be appreciated!

Fund raising isn't some esoteric thing. It comes from people. Hence this thread. :)

If you'd like to correct the fund raising deficit of this "great guy", please send him $10!

Yes, I see that you're in the Students For Liberty (sweet!), but after the back-to-back Ron and Rand campaigns, I'm probably so tapped out that your student budget would look pretty good to me!

There is a long story behind it but I had over $200 raised for him from like 6 or 7 people. Adams would not pick up the checks and made appointments and then wouldn't show up. This was before the senate race was over and I still managed to get people to donate. It wasnt easy, did a lot of phone calls.

Look I like moffet a lot and don't like williams at all. I agree that Williams only supported Rand to try and further his own career. I'm just making a objective observation that more should have been done before and I don't think they are doing enough now. Surely you can agree with me on that,

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 09:30 PM
There is a long story behind it but I had over $200 raised for him from like 6 or 7 people. Adams would not pick up the checks and made appointments and then wouldn't show up.
I'm definitely missing a lot of this long story. For example, I'd have mailed the checks. I'm guessing there was some reason that the checks needed to be delivered in person.

I'd hope that Phil could visit in person and talk to people. The money is important, but we're looking at this as a Friend Raiser, like we did for Rand. It's a lot more than picking up a check. The candidate needs to speak to people and convince them of his integrity and veracity and liberty credentials, and THEN people feel like writing a check... and telling their friends, and slapping on a bumper sticker or writing "MOFFETT 4GOV 2011" with window chalk on the back window of their car.





Look I like moffett a lot and don't like williams at all. I agree that Williams only supported Rand to try and further his own career. I'm just making a objective observation that more should have been done before and I don't think they are doing enough now. Surely you can agree with me on that,
Certainly, in the grassroots fight to restore our lost liberty, there's always more that could and should be done.

I'm trying to do more. That's why I started this thread. It doesn't seem to be going very far. :confused:

I know that if I spent more time hanging out here over the last year, I'd have a better idea of why that is. I spend an inordinate amount of time working on liberty stuff. Between reading and writing email, making stuff, doing stuff, watching videos and trying to stay informed, it's at least a full time job, but I've been largely AWOL on the Ron Paul Forums while working on Ron's and Rand's campaigns. My loss!

Jeremy Tyler
11-18-2010, 09:37 PM
I'm definitely missing a lot of this long story. For example, I'd have mailed the checks. I'm guessing there was some reason that the checks needed to be delivered in person.

I'd hope that Phil could visit in person and talk to people. The money is important, but we're looking at this as a Friend Raiser, like we did for Rand. It's a lot more than picking up a check. The candidate needs to speak to people and convince them of his integrity and veracity and liberty credentials, and THEN people feel like writing a check... and telling their friends, and slapping on a bumper sticker or writing "MOFFETT 4GOV 2011" with window chalk on the back window of their car.

Trust me me and couple of other people were wishing the same thing when trying to get some high donors on board. He really needed to be talking to them. As far as in person, thats what Adams wanted us to do.

TheDriver
11-18-2010, 10:09 PM
I wouldn't say that MARCH of 2009 is "late 2009". :rolleyes:


I was referring to David Williams not you.

sailingaway
11-18-2010, 10:17 PM
Sorry dude. When Williams came out in the Primary.... it wasn't a for sure thing.

Also, Moffett was a no show in the primary. Again, Neither he nor Adams donated till they wanted to meet Palin. Also, it was his own campaign that convinced Coal Fed Families (Their blog) , Mica Sims (Herald Leader) and his own campaign manager (Gave an interview to Barefoot and Progressive?!?!) to cause trouble over Rand having Williams on the bus tour when Moffett was invited.

This ^^ and Adams stirring the pot on the Fair Tax (which Adams is affiliated with) in the crucial last weeks of the campaign when Rand was tightly controlling his message poisoned a lot of people here who might otherwise have had better will towards the campaign, frankly. That is not Moffett's fault, but those who might have given out of good will towards Adams are much fewer than they were. Other than that, people would have to be excited on Moffett's own merits, and other than the fair tax, which is considered 'so so' around here, we haven't been given much about him to excite us enough to get involved outside our jurisdictions.

TheTyke
11-18-2010, 10:33 PM
We need to support Moffett all the way. He's one of the few politicians beside Ron & Rand who I can stand and actually believe in. When I've seen him speak, he actually jumps right into issues... states rights and defending the Constitution. The benefits of having a pro-liberty Governor who will represent us cannot be overstated... when coupled with Rand as a Senator, KY could become the spearhead for liberty in the U.S. Electing Rand was never going to be easy, but we did it. If we work as hard for Moffett, we could make another miracle happen... and in any case, in a primary, it makes sense to go all out supporting Constitutional candidates if they decide to run.

As someone who has worked to advance liberty in the state legislature, I know Williams is someone who has intentionally blocked all kinds of pro-liberty legislation - from legalizing industrial hemp, to refusing to comply with RealID. He also spread the lie of the "budget shortfall" to increase taxes and drive our state into debt - and then the GOP has been lying about it since, saying he was instrumental in "stopping the wild Democrat spending" - when in fact, he was complicity. Williams is the epitome of everything that's wrong with government.

Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 10:48 PM
We need to support Moffett all the way. He's one of the few politicians beside Ron & Rand who I can stand and actually believe in. When I've seen him speak, he actually jumps right into issues... states rights and defending the Constitution. The benefits of having a pro-liberty Governor who will represent us cannot be overstated... when coupled with Rand as a Senator, KY could become the spearhead for liberty in the U.S. Electing Rand was never going to be easy, but we did it. If we work as hard for Moffett, we could make another miracle happen... and in any case, in a primary, it makes sense to go all out supporting Constitutional candidates if they decide to run.

As someone who has worked to advance liberty in the state legislature, I know Williams is someone who has intentionally blocked all kinds of pro-liberty legislation - from legalizing industrial hemp, to refusing to comply with RealID. He also spread the lie of the "budget shortfall" to increase taxes and drive our state into debt - and then the GOP has been lying about it since, saying he was instrumental in "stopping the wild Democrat spending" - when in fact, he was complicity. Williams is the epitome of everything that's wrong with government.

Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.

Too bad the Hemp legislation is unneeded since Patton signed into law a hemp law.

Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana. On a state level, that matters. I'm not for voting in Moral Majority types to have them double down on drug wars and more prisoners (Kentucky has spent an extra 1.23 billion imprisoning non-violent drug offenders in the past decade).

Liberty4Ever
11-18-2010, 11:17 PM
Are we going to build on our previous success, or let another idiot become our governor? It's up to us.
Exactly! Thank you!

And thank you for your work in the state legislature. I did a little of that last year and it's difficult and frustrating work. It's a den of thieves. That's one more reason why Phil Moffett would be so good for Kentucky. We need him to check and balance our awful state legislature and slow them down until we can elect better people to our House and Senate.




Too bad the Hemp legislation is unneeded since Patton signed into law a hemp law.
Short history lesson: The last industrial hemp bill was passed but required the University of Kentucky to apply for a research waiver from the US DEA. The application was made and the DEA refused to act. They wouldn't issue the waiver or deny it. They stonewalled us, and laughed at our state sovereignty. The NEW & IMPROVED version of Kentucky's industrial hemp bill will not require DEA approval. Laugh at that, fed chuckle heads.

Phil Moffett is very serious about state sovereignty. That's a great start for a liberty candidate.




Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana.
So, you're in favor of Beshear or Williams because they're in favor of medical marijuana? Cause they aren't. AND they're not on board with any other liberty or small government issues either. Phil Moffett is BY FAR the best candidate in this race. Rand isn't 100% on every liberty issue, but he's a great liberty candidate because he's very pro-liberty and he'll definitely get the government out of your property and stop them from taxing us to death. Best of all, he's electable in Kentucky. Phil Moffett will get the government out of your property, stop them from taxing us to death, and he's electable in Kentucky... just like Rand.

Did you support Rand for his pro Medical Marijuana stance? I bet not, because he didn't run on that, just as Phil isn't running on that, and for the same reason. It'd be hard to be elected in Kentucky on a pro marijuana platform. Just ask Gatewood, our 10% of the vote gubernatorial candidate.

Insisting on a medical marijuana gubernatorial candidate isn't practical, and I think it's not a good criteria from a liberty perspective at this time. How about starting with someone who is strongly motivated to stop the fiscal bloodletting that is quickly destroying our state? He'll push for industrial hemp and sign it into law, and we can worry about weed later. OK?

Priorities! Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the very good! We didn't lose our liberty all at once, and we won't get it back all at once. Phil Moffett represents the biggest gain in liberty that I've dared hope to have in our state.

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 11:34 PM
Exactly! Thank you!

And thank you for your work in the state legislature. I did a little of that last year and it's difficult and frustrating work. It's a den of thieves. That's one more reason why Phil Moffett would be so good for Kentucky. We need him to check and balance our awful state legislature and slow them down until we can elect better people to our House and Senate.




Short history lesson: The last industrial hemp bill was passed but required the University of Kentucky to apply for a research waiver from the US DEA. The application was made and the DEA refused to act. They wouldn't issue the waiver or deny it. They stonewalled us, and laughed at our state sovereignty. The NEW & IMPROVED version of Kentucky's industrial hemp bill will not require DEA approval. Laugh at that, fed chuckle heads.

Phil Moffett is very serious about state sovereignty. That's a great start for a liberty candidate.




So, you're in favor of Beshear or Williams because they're in favor of medical marijuana? Cause they aren't. AND they're not on board with any other liberty or small government issues either. Phil Moffett is BY FAR the best candidate in this race. Rand isn't 100% on every liberty issue, but he's a great liberty candidate because he's very pro-liberty and he'll definitely get the government out of your property and stop them from taxing us to death. Best of all, he's electable in Kentucky. Phil Moffett will get the government out of your property, stop them from taxing us to death, and he's electable in Kentucky... just like Rand.

Did you support Rand for his pro Medical Marijuana stance? I bet not, because he didn't run on that, just as Phil isn't running on that, and for the same reason. It'd be hard to be elected in Kentucky on a pro marijuana platform. Just ask Gatewood, our 10% of the vote gubernatorial candidate.

Insisting on a medical marijuana gubernatorial candidate isn't practical, and I think it's not a good criteria from a liberty perspective at this time. How about starting with someone who is strongly motivated to stop the fiscal bloodletting that is quickly destroying our state? He'll push for industrial hemp and sign it into law, and we can worry about weed later. OK?

Priorities! Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the very good! We didn't lose our liberty all at once, and we won't get it back all at once. Phil Moffett represents the biggest gain in liberty that I've dared hope to have in our state.

So, you are saying someone who panders and says he is for hemp farming but not eliminating a large prison population of non violent drug offenders which bilked the taxpayers of 1.23 billion is a good idea, that's who we should back? Or someone who opposes casinos being allowed to freely operate while state sponsored gambling and horse gambling is ok, that is a liberty minded candidate?

Again, never said I supported Williams or Beshear. Just pointing out all three suck and are not anywhere liberty candidates. Why would I waste time and money because one guy agrees on a few issues. Also, to equate him with Rand is like equating Bill Paxson with Michael Jordan. They may be on the same team but, not in the same league.

Also, Rand ran for federal office and not state. So, the drug issue should not be his issue as his response was it's a state's issue, he was returning medical marijuana and things of that nature to the state. When Moffett would have a shot to criminalize the use of marijuana.

Also, the UK bill was to give us a shot at industrial hemp and is a current law that can be allowed RIGHT NOW. No legislation needed. I've even discussed this with our fine folks at Take Back Kentucky as they saw my point. You brought up Gatewood. Moffett polls about the same place Gatewood does in the full field general polls I've seen. I get wanting a "Tea Party" type but I don't want TPINO. Both Williams and Moffett are that. Neither are serious about Liberty on social issues which cause most of our state issues.

Moffett is a Johnny Come Lately. Where as Rand we watched him speak out on his issues for years. I remember some people supporting Moffett railing against Rand over having Mitch help him with fundraising and then complaining about Williams being at events. These people have shown they don't know what it takes to win a general election. If the Moffett campaign thinks they can compete then they need to give me a reason to vote for them and support them. Right now, all I hear for their media message is snarky comments about the other candidates and a lack of a solid plan of their message. Right now I would be running ads and sending mailers. Neither is happening.

Ethek
11-18-2010, 11:35 PM
I'm glad Bruce posted this.

I wrote David an email with some advice I felt very qualified to provide immediately after the primary. I would never presume that it should be the only thing but If hes considering this thread and where he would like to go with Phil I hope he has time to go back and take a look at it.

sailingaway
11-18-2010, 11:47 PM
I'm not in Kentucky, so I'm pretty much staying out of this thread. When you were talking about the 'national liberty movement', I responded. As someone from California who donated to Rand and a few other liberty candidates across the nation in the past election,( since California seems such a bad state for good politicians), I was writing about the issue from that point of view. With all the country and all the races in it to get excited about, it takes something exciting about a candidate to draw support, for me. That is all I was saying. If I lived in KY, it would be different, because I would be talking about MY governor. But I don't, and I'm not. So Moffett should find something about his positions people would get excited about, imho.

Matt Collins
11-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Hell, if we look at social issues... neither Moffett or Williams are "Liberty minded." In fact I know for a fact Moffett opposes Medical Marijuana. On a state level, that matters. I'm not for voting in Moral Majority types to have them double down on drug wars and more prisoners (Kentucky has spent an extra 1.23 billion imprisoning non-violent drug offenders in the past decade).
Interesting.

Yeah if he really is for bigger government, even if he is the better of the 3 (lesser of the evils), then I won't have anything to do with him. Not that it matters much anyway because I don't live in KY.

I only support and vote for candidates who are going to make the government smaller in ALL facets, not just some.

TheTyke
11-18-2010, 11:54 PM
Where was Gatewood during the primary? I'm not sure, but Dea Riley was posting on Facebook that it was absurd to call Trey Grayson an Establishment candidate, and Rand fit the description better since he had huge out of state groups like Campaign for Liberty supporting him. Brilliant... I like Gatewood, but I'm not sure he understands economic liberty, and using vulgarities in public speaking (which turn off conservative friends, even constitutional ones) is not a way to win office.

Your claims that Moffett came to the game late are incorrect... he was at the Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand, despite the weather. He's on the right.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs133.snc3/18051_1315858503928_1454678220_30857782_2816273_n. jpg

In any case, I'll be supporting the best candidate running... that means Moffett in the primary, and decide after that for the general. Rolling over and letting Williams represent the Republican Party would be a step back.

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 11:55 PM
Interesting.

Yeah if he really is for bigger government, even if he is the better of the 3 (lesser of the evils), then I won't have anything to do with him. Not that it matters much anyway because I don't live in KY.

I only support and vote for candidates who are going to make the government smaller in ALL facets, not just some.

That's my point. I have heard enough of the "toying" with issues. I've worked for guys like this before. They only set you up to be disappointed.

I couldn't stand hearing people whine about Rand and the "Bailout Ball." Same people are now saying how loyal they were now he's elected. Whatever. I saw the path to victory and Rand did that!

BamaFanNKy
11-18-2010, 11:58 PM
Where was Gatewood during the primary? I'm not sure, but Dea Riley was posting on Facebook that it was absurd to call Trey Grayson an Establishment Republican, and Rand fit the description better since he had huge out of state groups like Campaign for Liberty supporting him. I like Gatewood, but I'm not sure he understands economic liberty, and using vulgarities in public speaking (which turn off conservative friends, even constitutional ones) is not a way to win office.

Your claims that Moffett came to the game late are incorrect... he was at the Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand.

In any case, I'll be supporting the best candidate running... that means Moffett in the primary, and decide after that for the general. Rolling over and letting Williams represent the Republican Party would be a step back.

Forget that. Jumped off the Gatewood train a long time ago. Gatewood was at the Tea Party rallies. He worked the crowd. He's more on point with the issues. He has issues I can not stand with him on. I am out of his camp when I was leaning there.

Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand? Rand was already ahead in the polls. He didn't actually donate till Palin and he never hosted any events. Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically. He's basically another Andy Barr in my eyes.

I suggested that Gatewood and Moffett campaigns contact Gov. Gary Johnson and even Medina. None of them did. To me, those two had the strongest message (more so Gary since his actually won) for limited government.

Liberty4Ever
11-19-2010, 12:02 AM
If the Moffett campaign thinks they can compete then they need to give me a reason to vote for them and support them.
Forget voting for him. For now, I'd be happy if you'd avoid deriding a good, solid, electable liberty candidate because he's not your idea of a perfect (and perfectly unelectable) liberty candidate.

I've voted Libertarian Party since Ron Paul ran as the 1988 Libertarian Party presidential nominee, so I know a thing or two about great unelectable candidates like Harry Browne and Michal Badnarik, and I can tell you that I'd much rather run good liberty candidates like Rand and Phil who can win, and start us back on the path to restoring our liberty.

We won't get anywhere if we sit on the sidelines and hold our breath waiting for the perfect ideologically pure candidate. Such a candidate doesn't exist, and if a miracle occurred and such a candidate dropped in from outer space, the voters would never go for someone like that. Too extreme. Scary. Unelectable.

In this race, we have the choice between two career politicians who created Kentucky's fiscal mess, and the new guy who has the intelligence, ethics and drive to fix the problems we face, and get the big nasty government our of our doo dah. You can day dream about your perfect candidate or lament the fact that we don't have a perfect candidate if you like, but I found a very good candidate who I can elect to be our next governor, and I'm taking that shot.

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 12:07 AM
Forget voting for him. For now, I'd be happy if you'd avoid deriding a good, solid, electable liberty candidate because he's not your idea of a perfect (and perfectly unelectable) liberty candidate.

I've voted Libertarian Party since Ron Paul ran as the 1988 Libertarian Party presidential nominee, so I know a thing or two about great unelectable candidates like Harry Browne and Michal Badnarik, and I can tell you that I'd much rather run good liberty candidates like Rand and Phil who can win, and start us back on the path to restoring our liberty.

We won't get anywhere if we sit on the sidelines and hold our breath waiting for the perfect ideologically pure candidate. Such a candidate doesn't exist, and if a miracle occurred and such a candidate dropped in from outer space, the voters would never go for someone like that. Too extreme. Scary. Unelectable.

In this race, we have the choice between two career politicians who created Kentucky's fiscal mess, and the new guy who has the intelligence, ethics and drive to fix the problems we face, and get the big nasty government our of our doo dah. You can day dream about your perfect candidate or lament the fact that we don't have a perfect candidate if you like, but I found a very good candidate who I can elect to be our next governor, and I'm taking that shot.

Your right, settle for Andy Barr types is what we should do.

You do realize we just elected a purist to the Senate? Sorry, I will not let an anti-gambling, anti-medical marijuana, pro-drug warrior, never really supported the Senate campaign fully type take the mantle of a "Rand Repeat" which is what you called him.

He's more of a Brett Guthrie repeat at best, which I voted for and like Brett.

TheTyke
11-19-2010, 12:09 AM
Forget that. Jumped off the Gatewood train a long time ago. Gatewood was at the Tea Party rallies. He worked the crowd. He's more on point with the issues. He has issues I can not stand with him on. I am out of his camp when I was leaning there.

Rally for the Republicans with Ron & Rand? Rand was already ahead in the polls. He didn't actually donate till Palin and he never hosted any events. Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically. He's basically another Andy Barr in my eyes.

I suggested that Gatewood and Moffett campaigns contact Gov. Gary Johnson and even Medina. None of them did. To me, those two had the strongest message (more so Gary since his actually won) for limited government.

I'm one of the ones who stuck by Rand through all the doubts, because I knew him as a person and judged him to be on our side. Although I don't know Phil as well, that's also the feeling get from him. Besides, since Williams is our #1 obstacle of getting liberty legislation through, what better opportunity will we have to publicly challenge him than this primary (since apparently, we've been unsuccessful removing him as Senate President?)

It's a winning situation... but beyond that I personally believe he'd be a good governor. And this is in spite of Adams & Mica's attempts to change my mind with their shenanigans... lol...

We'd have to make it happen though. Which is, I think, Liberty4Ever's point.

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 12:11 AM
I'm one of the ones who stuck by Rand through all the doubts, because I knew him as a person and judged him to be on our side. Although I don't know Phil as well, that's also the feeling get from him. Besides, since Williams is our #1 obstacle of getting liberty legislation through, what better opportunity will we have to publicly challenge him than this primary (since apparently, we've been unsuccessful removing him as Senate President?)

It's a winning situation... but beyond that I personally believe he'd be a good governor. And this is in spite of Adams & Mica's attempts to change my mind with their shenanigans... lol...

We'd have to make it happen though. Which is, I think, Liberty4Ever's point.

Guys, I'm with you. I really want to like Moffett but, the line of thinking he has is VERY flawed and just lead back to the problems we are in. Plus these comments from his campaign on his behalf made me sour:

"We know Beshear colluded with Obama and Jack Conway to headstomp Kentuckians who don't like ObamaCare, but does this mean he also helped put together that dreadful tv ad attacking Rand Paul's Christian faith?"

David Adams, campaign manager
Phil Moffett for Governor

Again, this was supposed to help?

TheTyke
11-19-2010, 12:19 AM
Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share. :P

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 12:25 AM
Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share. :P

Distrust of people who were hesitant to hold functions for ALMOST PERFECT liberty candidates and don't donate till Palin. Plus, not so sure you are going to win an election on the "I'm not him" or "He's scary" platform. Being the "Tea Party Candidate" right now is allowing Hemp but, forgetting the major issue that hurts Kentuckians economically and socially. Our massive Prison industrial Complex and Police state. Plus what free market loving conservative doesn't believe in a person's right to waste one's money at playing cards?

Guthrie is untouchable here. Like how I feel about Moffett. They are the types if they get in office and disappoint, they'll be hard to get out. Again, I think his message is horrible right now.

I'd be running something similar to this on TV right now while rates are cheap! State level of course:
YouTube - Gary Johnson: The Athlete's Guide to Good Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNecEtzV5sI)

Liberty4Ever
11-19-2010, 12:26 AM
I couldn't stand hearing people whine about Rand and the "Bailout Ball." Same people are now saying how loyal they were now he's elected. Whatever. I saw the path to victory and Rand did that!
The fact is, the bailout ball was a major diversion in Rand's path to victory. It cost a huge number of the Independent and conservative Democrat votes needed to win a US Senate seat in Kentucky. This isn't Monday morning quarterbacking, either. Those of us most active in the grassroots ground war instantly knew it was a mistake. We were the ones who had been talking to these critical voters throughout the primary, and setting Rand up for cruise control in the general election.

The media made a big flap about the 1964 Civil Rights Act comments Rand made in the Rabid Madcow ambush interview, but the polling data told a very different story. The lunch counter comments caused small negative moves. The majority of the lost momentum and support was based on the bailout ball so soon after we all ripped Grayson for doing the same thing, and hanging around with Mitch McConnell. These were very unpopular in the grassroots liberty community, but they were equally unpopular among grassroots voters. If Conway hadn't been such a totally unelectable jerk, these post-primary missteps could have been very serious.




Seriously guys, let's stop acting as if he was some big Rand fan or even comparable to Rand politically.
I've never said that Phil Moffett was a big Rand fan. Who is so motivated by personality politics as to think that's an issue? I think it's as irrelevant as saying that Rand wasn't a big fan of Phil Moffett. I'm not voting for him because of who he likes. I'm supporting him because of who he is, and what he believes, and what he'll do after he's elected.

From what I've seen, I'd score Rand and Phil about the same on my hypothetical liberty scale. Ron Paul scores 100, and Rand and Phil earn a 92. They're all A candidates in my score book. Williams and Beshear? There's some failing grades, right there, and their bad behavior warrants expulsion.

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 12:27 AM
Yep, in spite of Adams... :\ There are a number of factors that give me pause about their success, or how well managed the campaign will be. This was true of Ron's campaign in 2008, and heck, I even worried about Rand's sometimes - but supported them because I believed in the candidates and the rightness of their cause.

Guthrie is only around 60% constitutional in the Freedom Index - the worst out of KY Republican Reps, and I somehow doubt we'd see him standing up for industrial hemp or really pushing for states rights just because some citizens urged him to. I'd like to see him replaced with someone better, should one arise. I guess I'm not understanding why you seem so doubtful of Moffett's intentions... unless it's just the general distaste for all politicians, which I share. :P

Distrust of people who were hesitant to hold functions for ALMOST PERFECT liberty candidates and don't donate till Palin. Plus, not so sure you are going to win an election on the "I'm not him" or "He's scary" platform. Being the "Tea Party Candidate" right now is allowing Hemp but, forgetting the major issue that hurts Kentuckians economically and socially. Our massive Prison industrial Complex and Police state. Plus what free market loving conservative doesn't believe in a person's right to waste one's money at playing cards?

Guthrie is untouchable here. Like how I feel about Moffett. They are the types if they get in office and disappoint, they'll be hard to get out. Again, I think his message is horrible right now.

I'd be running something similar to this on TV right now while rates are cheap! State level and :30 of course:
YouTube - Gary Johnson: The Athlete's Guide to Good Government (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNecEtzV5sI)

TheTyke
11-19-2010, 12:55 AM
I'm pretty sure you would agree if we're going to do something with gambling, it should be legalized across the board - not just special favors for a few groups. Both sides have it wrong on this issue. Campaigns are basically about winning (it surprised me that he even backed hemp) - bringing up legalization issues or an entirely new take to the gambling situation that would anger BOTH sides (social cons and pro-special interest favors) seem like a great way to take the campaign down in flames.

Also, have to throw in my 2 cents on the other topic... Rand always said he'd work with the party and accept support once he won the primary. The "scandal" was a result of a Conman press release, compliant media and reaction by people who weren't paying attention to what he said in 2009. Furthermore, the money was needed to win, as the liberty movement alone couldn't keep up the pace. Rand did what he had to, and the benefits outweighed the difficulty Conman able to generate with it. We won a historic victory, and I'm glad Rand was able to navigate those waters.

TheDriver
11-19-2010, 07:02 AM
......


If Moffett is indeed a liberty candidate, maybe those who support him should lobby for a forum to post their promos and issue discussions.

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 07:30 AM
......


If Moffett is indeed a liberty candidate, maybe those who support him should lobby for a forum to post their promos and issue discussions.

this.

Posting in the Rand Paul forums is not productive since Senator Elect Paul has decided not to endorse him or Williams.

BamaFanNKy
11-19-2010, 07:31 AM
The fact is, the bailout ball was a major diversion in Rand's path to victory. It cost a huge number of the Independent and conservative Democrat votes needed to win a US Senate seat in Kentucky. This isn't Monday morning quarterbacking, either. Those of us most active in the grassroots ground war instantly knew it was a mistake. We were the ones who had been talking to these critical voters throughout the primary, and setting Rand up for cruise control in the general election.

The media made a big flap about the 1964 Civil Rights Act comments Rand made in the Rabid Madcow ambush interview, but the polling data told a very different story. The lunch counter comments caused small negative moves. The majority of the lost momentum and support was based on the bailout ball so soon after we all ripped Grayson for doing the same thing, and hanging around with Mitch McConnell. These were very unpopular in the grassroots liberty community, but they were equally unpopular among grassroots voters. If Conway hadn't been such a totally unelectable jerk, these post-primary missteps could have been very serious.




I've never said that Phil Moffett was a big Rand fan. Who is so motivated by personality politics as to think that's an issue? I think it's as irrelevant as saying that Rand wasn't a big fan of Phil Moffett. I'm not voting for him because of who he likes. I'm supporting him because of who he is, and what he believes, and what he'll do after he's elected.

From what I've seen, I'd score Rand and Phil about the same on my hypothetical liberty scale. Ron Paul scores 100, and Rand and Phil earn a 92. They're all A candidates in my score book. Williams and Beshear? There's some failing grades, right there, and their bad behavior warrants expulsion.

You must believe everything David Adams wants people to believe. Your scorebook is off if you believe Phil is that strong. Again, the difference between Moffett and Fletcher/Barr/Guthrie, Hemp Farming. That and he just repeats some things he's heard Rand said. This is like supporting the Monkees because you were a Beetles fan. It's so obvious he's trying to just fool people he's an extension of Senator Elect Paul, he even made his logo the same theme:
http://www.philmoffett.com.php5-13.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/moffettlogonew.png

Blue background didn't come through on link.

sailingaway
11-19-2010, 09:16 AM
What Tyke is saying and Jeremy is saying make me think this guy MAY be good... not because I'm excited by Moffett but because I've seen Tyke and Jeremy around.

But you need to get people excited about MOFFETT. You could even do flyers people who ARE excited about him can print out on their own computers, as we do for various C4L events. Something, whatever it is, that WOULD excite voters.

Remember Ron's:


He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.

He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.

Now Moffett does not have a record to point to, but he could say what he stands for, like Rand's 'Rand's Plan' does.

Then people can spread it around. Under windshield wipers at events, etc.

But you have to get people excited, and I still don't know why Tyke and Jeremy are, except that he isn't Williams.

Ethek
11-19-2010, 12:17 PM
What Tyke is saying and Jeremy is saying make me think this guy MAY be good... not because I'm excited by Moffett but because I've seen Tyke and Jeremy around.

But you need to get people excited about MOFFETT. You could even do flyers people who ARE excited about him can print out on their own computers, as we do for various C4L events. Something, whatever it is, that WOULD excite voters.

Remember Ron's:



Now Moffett does not have a record to point to, but he could say what he stands for, like Rand's 'Rand's Plan' does.

Then people can spread it around. Under windshield wipers at events, etc.

But you have to get people excited, and I still don't know why Tyke and Jeremy are, except that he isn't Williams.


This was pretty much what I was hoping David would pick up on.

Liberty4Ever
11-21-2010, 03:28 PM
I thought my original post made it clear why I took the time to reach out to people on the Ron Paul Forums. I see Phil Moffett very much as I see Rand Paul. He's not a perfect liberty candidate, but who is? He's a very good liberty candidate, despite some of the claims in this thread that would be slander if he wasn't running for public office.

I get the feeling that there's a silent majority of people here who would like Phil and some of them might have offered a little bit of financial support, were it not for the nattering naybobs of negativism.

A couple of people here don't like David Adams and therefore delight in trashing Phil Moffett.

A couple of people want an absolutist liberty candidate who is completely unelectable in Kentucky, and probably anywhere else in the country. If that's their criteria, I can't imagine they supported Rand either.

Needless to say, this thread didn't turn out as I had hoped.

Everyone has the right to believe anything they want, and I'm a big fan of freely expressing your beliefs, so I can't complain too much about this thread. Mostly, I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to spread the word about a very good liberty candidate to some people I thought would be natural allies.

I don't expect every grassroots effort to be a success. I'll chalk this up to a learning experience. I'm going back to the productive hard work I've been logging for the last few years in the Boots On The Ground local grassroots campaigning. I'll restrict my online liberty pursuits to staying informed and communicating with my local liberty friends who were instrumental in the grassroots portion of Rand's campaign. I know we can get Phil elected as our next governor. The political climate is trending in his favor, he has nearly unanimous support among the Kentucky Ron/Rand supporters (that should tell you something), and like Rand's campaign, the other candidates are just plain awful, and Kentuckians don't need much prompting to realize it.

Think back on this thread in another year, when you hear about Governor Moffett.

Good luck in your liberty pursuits.