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bobbyw24
11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
Like Father, Not Like Son

Ron Paul refuses to 'co-opt' movement by joining Tea Party Caucus

Texas Republican Rep. Ron Paul, an icon to many members of the Tea Party movement, has decided not to join the House Tea Party Caucus.

http://dc-cdn.virtacore.com/2010/11/AP1010021604101-e1289938829697.jpg

Jeff Deist, chief of staff for Paul, confirmed the congressman’s decision in a statement to The Daily Caller.

“Congressman Paul decided not to join the Tea Party Caucus,” Deist wrote in an e-mail. “He strongly believes the Tea Party movement should remain a grassroots phenomenon, rather than being co-opted by Washington or any political party.”


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/16/thedc-exclusive-ron-paul-will-not-join-the-tea-party-caucus/#ixzz15TJc1sOj

FrankRep
11-16-2010, 12:32 PM
I agree. A Tea Party Caucus will corrupt the the grassroots Tea Party movement.

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 12:33 PM
Dr. Paul is a wild mustang; he never stops bucking the system.

newbitech
11-16-2010, 12:35 PM
why join a voting block that he will later have to step out of line with when they decide to compromise on principles for political gain?

not surprised at all by this move, and in fact I am pleased that Ron Paul has once again kicked his politics back to the grassroots where it belongs.

also, to go off on a little tangent here, GunnyFreedom aka Glen Bradley who won his State House seat in NC had an idea that Rand is once again reminding me of. I really want to get started on this, it needs to come from the grassroots, and now I see an opportunity to trial this app in NC with Gunny, and then share it with the Senate.

Someone or some group of programmers is going to make this happen, why not the grassroots here at RPF? I registered http://self-government.us for this project and then just got crazy busy with my business.


Although Ron Paul fears a co-opting of the movement, Rand Paul told TheDC that he hopes to channel Tea Party energy by creating a link between Congress and the Tea Party activists who were instrumental in electing many new conservatives to Congress this election cycle: “I’d also like it to involve the grassroots, in some way, the Tea Party groups so we get some kind of input from folks all around the country, some kind of electronic town hall or something like that.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/16/thedc-exclusive-ron-paul-will-not-join-the-tea-party-caucus/#ixzz15TKAbSqp

georgiaboy
11-16-2010, 12:38 PM
smart move.

I fully expect the House Tea Party Caucus will end up endorsing some stupid big gov't &/or unconstitutional legislation/resolution, etc., that'll render it pointless.

Fozz
11-16-2010, 12:39 PM
Rand Paul should think twice before forming his bicameral tea party caucus.

malkusm
11-16-2010, 12:39 PM
While I agree with everything posted in this thread ... doesn't this hurt his positioning as "The Tea Party Candidate" in 2012? I think that he needs to capture a substantial part of that voting block to be successful....

Elwar
11-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Wasn't Ron Paul a member of the Republican Liberty Caucus?

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
While I agree with everything posted in this thread ... doesn't this hurt his positioning as "The Tea Party Candidate" in 2012? I think that he needs to capture a substantial part of that voting block to be successful....

I'd say it helps his positioning. He just argued for the power of the "tea party" to stay with the people and not washington.

Bruno
11-16-2010, 12:43 PM
While I agree with everything posted in this thread ... doesn't this hurt his positioning as "The Tea Party Candidate" in 2012? I think that he needs to capture a substantial part of that voting block to be successful....

If Palin runs, she would be the (co-opted) Tea Party favorite.

payme_rick
11-16-2010, 12:54 PM
I'd say it helps his positioning. He just argued for the power of the "tea party" to stay with the people and not washington.

I dunno, you know how it can get spun etc...

I agree with RP here and am behind it 100%, but he may need to get ahead of this right now if he's planning on running... People can be such sheep!

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 12:56 PM
I dunno, you know how it can get spun etc...


Yeah, I realize that. But on the otherhand, he just sounded a clarion call for all "tea partiers" that they are about to get co-opted, officially. Whether they seize the opportunity to resist is up to them.

payme_rick
11-16-2010, 01:01 PM
But do you think one statement by Ron Paul now will be enough? I think that message needs be brought up continually...

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 01:03 PM
Unless Ron is planning an indy run, he just shot himself in the foot again, IMO!

ItsTime
11-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Nothing but teo-cons in the tea party caucus anyway. They are self proclaimed tea partiers who voted for unconstitutional laws, wars and pissed on the Constitution every chance they had.

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 01:08 PM
I think that message needs be brought up continually...

Indeed. It was only a prediction/forecast/warning.

Bruno
11-16-2010, 01:08 PM
Unless Ron is planning an indy run, he just shot himself in the foot again, IMO!

Do you believe the co-opted Tea Party would have "chosen" or identified with him as their candidate? Over Palin, for example?

sluggo
11-16-2010, 01:08 PM
The most honorable man to ever set foot in Washington, DC.

newbitech
11-16-2010, 01:09 PM
Unless Ron is planning an indy run, he just shot himself in the foot again, IMO!

No. Please go back and read some of the history of Ron Paul from the last 2 years, and try to understand the relationship between the grassroots and the servants we call Congress. I'd rather he shoot himself in the foot than shoot himself in the head. Cause that is what he'd be doing if he started lining up with establishment politicians who are trying on different hats.

Koz
11-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Do you believe the co-opted Tea Party would have "chosen" or identified with him as their candidate? Over Palin, for example?

Please, tea-party people will vote for Romney.

cswake
11-16-2010, 01:43 PM
Frankly, every caucus appears to tries to address the interests of a specific voting demographic, and I think avoiding this might be what is driving Paul's decision. His policies are really for the benefit of all Americans and not trying to serve specific interests.

http://cha.house.gov/member_orgs111th.aspx


African Great Lakes Caucus
Afterschool Caucus
Algae Energy Caucus
...
Victory in Iraq Congressional Caucus
Water Caucus
World Economic Forum Caucus

Imaginos
11-16-2010, 01:57 PM
Ron Paul IS the Tea Party already.
Why on earth should he join any 'the Tea Party blah blah this' and 'the Tea Party blah blah that'?
A puppet/political whore like Bachman has a good reason to join 'the Tea Party Caucus' to build some fake credibility to scam patriots.
Ron Paul has nothing to prove.

silentshout
11-16-2010, 02:02 PM
Unless Ron is planning an indy run, he just shot himself in the foot again, IMO!

Are you kidding? This is a smart move. The current GOP co-opted "tea party" is not popular with the general public. They associate it with people like palin and o donnell, as well as other failures. Good for him for sticking to his principles. I think the tea party would remain strong if it would stay as a nonpartisan grassroots movement.

And honestly, i think an Indy run would be for the best, but i am in a small minority.

JohnEngland
11-16-2010, 02:04 PM
“Congressman Paul decided not to join the Tea Party Caucus,” Deist wrote in an e-mail. “He strongly believes the Tea Party movement should remain a grassroots phenomenon, rather than being co-opted by Washington or any political party.”


By not being in the caucus, he's alienating himself from the Tea Party mainstream AND his good influence will be absent. The Tea Party caucus needs a strong, principled leader and Ron has declined that title. Shame...

At least Rand has stepped up to the plate!

JohnEngland
11-16-2010, 02:07 PM
The current GOP co-opted "tea party" is not popular with the general public.

If the Tea Party isn't popular with the general public, it's because they've been lied to by the media.

Who is against balanced budgets, government living within its means, low taxes and term limits?

The principles of the Tea Party are popular. It's just the name that's been demonised. Bastard media.

AuH20
11-16-2010, 02:11 PM
If the Tea Party isn't popular with the general public, it's because they've been lied to by the media.

Who is against balanced budgets, government living within its means, low taxes and term limits?

The principles of the Tea Party are popular. It's just the name that's been demonised. Bastard media.

You're right. The media has painted them as racists.

Humanae Libertas
11-16-2010, 02:14 PM
Who cares about the Tea-O-Con party. It's no longer grassroots, just hijacked by FOX News pundits/NeoCons. The current "Tea Party" will not support Ron Paul's run for President; this is a smart move by Ron. I'm sure in the next 2 years, the "Tea Party" will be a thing in the past.

AuH20
11-16-2010, 02:22 PM
Who cares about the Tea-O-Con party. It's no longer grassroots, just hijacked by FOX News pundits/NeoCons. The current "Tea Party" will not support Ron Paul's run for President; this is a smart move by Ron. I'm sure in the next 2 years, the "Tea Party" will be a thing in the past.

Not with unemployment hovering near or above double digits.

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 02:26 PM
Not with unemployment hovering near or above double digits.

And with federal employees having an average total compensation of about double non federal workers.

Anti Federalist
11-16-2010, 03:06 PM
The most honorable man to ever set foot in Washington, DC.

That ^^^^

+rep

Heimdallr
11-16-2010, 03:41 PM
Hmm... well, on one hand I agree with him, and I know where he's coming from, but honestly, joining the Tea Party Caucus would really help with "Ron Paul = Tea Party".

Just saying, having a strong prescence in the Tea Party is crucial for the general Liberty movement, and for 2012. Being able to officially call himself a "Tea Party" politican could really help us.

Although, if enough people know the position he's taken, and why, it might be an even bigger help. I have a feeling the TEA people would have a lot more respect for Paul the Elder if they knew his position on joining the Caucus.

nate895
11-16-2010, 03:53 PM
While I agree with everything posted in this thread ... doesn't this hurt his positioning as "The Tea Party Candidate" in 2012? I think that he needs to capture a substantial part of that voting block to be successful....

I think it could strengthen it. I think this is a smart move for 2012, if it is executed properly.

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 04:07 PM
Do you believe the co-opted Tea Party would have "chosen" or identified with him as their candidate? Over Palin, for example?

I consider myself a Tea Partier, and many of the Tea Party types in Kentucky will support Ron Paul over Palin, sure not all but a good deal will, but this doesn't help.

The thing many people here and Lew Rockwell miss is the Tea Party is up for grabs, up for co-opting, up for influencing. That's how you build coalitions - you expand.

Ron not joining the group makes no sense, why not be there to influence it? Does Ron have some better things to do in his own group or something?

P.S.

I went to the Rev Ron Paul march on d.c. and the R4R, I guess I need to put that in my sig, so the people who want to attack my join date can f#ck off. :D

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 04:09 PM
Are you kidding? This is a smart move. The current GOP co-opted "tea party" is not popular with the general public. They associate it with people like palin and o donnell, as well as other failures. Good for him for sticking to his principles. I think the tea party would remain strong if it would stay as a nonpartisan grassroots movement.


But, Ron is planning a GOP primary run, this hurts that. You can't get to the big dance if you don't have a date!

JS4Pat
11-16-2010, 04:14 PM
Is this really a surprise to anyone?

He is a principled statesman - not a politician. No matter what the cost/benefit to him politically - I respect even more for the decision.

By the way - I don't knock Rand for joining...

angelatc
11-16-2010, 04:21 PM
I consider myself a Tea Partier, and many of the Tea Party types in Kentucky will support Ron Paul over Palin, sure not all but a good deal will, but this doesn't help.

The thing many people here and Lew Rockwell miss is the Tea Party is up for grabs, up for co-opting, up for influencing. That's how you build coalitions - you expand.

Ron not joining the group makes no sense, why not be there to influence it? Does Ron have some better things to do in his own group or something?



I agree with you.

specsaregood
11-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Is this really a surprise to anyone?
He is a principled statesman - not a politician. No matter what the cost/benefit to him politically - I respect even more for the decision.
By the way - I don't knock Rand for joining...

You could even justify that it makes sense for Rand to join such a group. His election is a direct result of the "tea party". He held no elected office previous to its existence. In essence Rand is the tea party and owes it his election. Ron on the otherhand was there before, he owe nothing to the tea party. Or maybe this is just a way for pops to let the son come out from underneath his shadow completely and lead the charge.

Scribbler de Stebbing
11-16-2010, 05:08 PM
also, to go off on a little tangent here, GunnyFreedom aka Glen Bradley who won his State House seat in NC had an idea that Rand is once again reminding me of. I really want to get started on this, it needs to come from the grassroots, and now I see an opportunity to trial this app in NC with Gunny, and then share it with the Senate.

Fantastic about Gunny!!! Best news I've heard all day. :D

John of Des Moines
11-16-2010, 06:06 PM
Ron Paul joining a Tea Party Caucus is like the Wright Brothers joining the Pilots' Union.

raistlinkishtar
11-16-2010, 06:15 PM
The cultural marxists could sucessfully associate the Tea Party with nazism at some point (like they do with all non-Marxist organizations). The Tea Party could be popular now, but it could be considered = to the KKK in 5 years. Then your credibility is lost. Why help the enemy label you?

payme_rick
11-16-2010, 06:45 PM
If you don't understand why Ron Paul didn't join the caucus, then you don't get Ron Paul...

And if you don't understand how this could screw up a '12 run for Paul, then you're a little bias...

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 07:10 PM
The cultural marxists could sucessfully associate the Tea Party with nazism at some point (like they do with all non-Marxist organizations). The Tea Party could be popular now, but it could be considered = to the KKK in 5 years. Then your credibility is lost. Why help the enemy label you?

Rand had to take the exact same gamble with Tea Party label for his election, but luckily he was smart enough to see it was the only coalition around even remotely close to accepting our message, too bad Ron doesn't see that (maybe he does, but moves like this don't help to prove it).

james1906
11-16-2010, 07:17 PM
This could be a calculated move where others in Congress will tell him that they can't have the caucus without him. Reluctantly he then joins.

low preference guy
11-16-2010, 07:17 PM
Rand had to take the exact same gamble with Tea Party label for his election, but luckily he was smart enough to see it was the only coalition around even remotely close to accepting our message, too bad Ron doesn't see that (maybe he does, but moves like this don't help to prove it).

geez driver, it seems every post i've read from you lately is criticism to Ron

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 07:23 PM
geez driver, it seems every post i've read from you lately is criticism to Ron

Two threads... Earmarks and Tea Party. I haven't seen a GITMO thread lately...

I'm entitled to my 2 cents.


This is the worst move Ron has made since Mosque, IMO (which I'm entitled to).

If he wants to win the primary, he needs to focus on building coalitions, not alienating himself.

P.S. I do see how this helps with indy's but I think most states are closed GOP primaries, and if we don't get past super Tuesday, we don't dance.

low preference guy
11-16-2010, 07:25 PM
he needs to focus on building coalitions

lol. that's not going to happen. you want to change a 70 something year old? i wouldn't hold my breath.

DjLoTi
11-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Ron shouldn't take a 2nd place to Palin, which is what it probably would be. This seems to be a philosophical decision. I don't think it's a big deal. I don't really care about the tea party. I live in Texas. We're like the tea-party state of the nation. It could be better tho. Lots of RINOs

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 07:27 PM
lol. that's not going to happen. you want to change a 70 something year old? i wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm just pointing out what I think it takes to win an election, since many of us here would like Ron to be President.

And unlike many, I'm willing to oppose the apple-cart.

low preference guy
11-16-2010, 07:27 PM
I'm just pointing out what I think it takes to win an election, since many of us here would like Ron to be President.

And unlike many, I'm willing to oppose the apple-cart.

that's cool

TheDriver
11-16-2010, 07:29 PM
that's cool

I'm sorry I come off as negative sometimes, but I admit I have a poster of Ron Paul on my wall. ;)

payme_rick
11-16-2010, 07:29 PM
TheDriver: I do not think that Ron made a move here... I think this is who Ron is...

I admit it could really come back to haunt him if he does run, but not because it was a wrong move, but because we have a lot of sheep out there and this WILL be used... we all have to get ahead on this one...

Deborah K
11-16-2010, 07:30 PM
Glad to hear it as I am against all caucuses.

DjLoTi
11-16-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm sorry I come off as negative sometimes, but I admit I have a poster of Ron Paul on my wall. ;)

Haha, cool me too! I love Ron Paul. I hope he can do this campaign thing. I think we should reach out to America in our own way. I think we need to reach out at a personal level. I think we have a long way to go. I think we're doing great already. Ron is going to blow up when he announces, and we all know it. We should have a money bomb date up and running NOW!!!! SOMEONE START A MONEYBOMB PAGE NOW!!!! WHAT IS THE ANNIVERSARY DATE FROM 2008????

DjLoTi
11-16-2010, 07:33 PM
March!! Dang we got some time!!

Live_Free_Or_Die
11-16-2010, 07:33 PM
why join a voting block that he will later have to step out of line with when they decide to compromise on principles for political gain?

That. When the Tea'O'Con caucus breaks out the drums for interventionist or preemptive war ceremonies, Ron won't have to clean any shit off of his boots.

mczerone
11-16-2010, 07:38 PM
I understand and think it was the right move. But contrary to others, I do think that this was a political move.

The Tea Partiers are going to join a deadlocked Congress, and not be able to stop tax hikes, won't be able (or maybe willing) to reduce spending, won't be able to fix unemployment, and won't repeal any major parts of nazi-care.

As the primaries roll around Ron may be able to say "I told you so", and "if the Tea party had stuck to the principles we started them with, maybe we wouldn't have expected so much out of them, and maybe we would have gotten somewhere in reducing the budget."

xd9fan
11-16-2010, 07:38 PM
I'd say it helps his positioning. He just argued for the power of the "tea party" to stay with the people and not washington.


BINGO!!!

Ron Paul.....cant touch this!!

Washington wants to box and label then destory

Bergie Bergeron
11-16-2010, 08:15 PM
Rand will be the one co-opting the Tea Party from Washington.

RP4Pres2008
11-16-2010, 08:18 PM
Man, this guy Ron Paul, dude is a serious badass.

Couldn't ask for a better hero. :D

economics102
11-16-2010, 09:22 PM
This needs to be repeated for some people who are newer to this scene: Appearances to the contrary, Ron Paul is, among other things, actually a very clever politician who has an uncanny ability to see ahead of the curve whether it's economics, politics, or whatever else.

As others have said, Ron Paul does not benefit from lending his name and credibility to a group that is desperately clamoring for it. The House Tea Party Caucus alone reportedly has 50 members already, and it will likely have more. Do you really think there are 50 honest statesmen in the House?

Rand Paul and Ron Paul are following very different, though strategically complimentary strategies.

Many politicians were elected on the winds of the tea party movement, and many will face primary and general threats in 2012 under those same winds. The tea party movement was a devil's choice: co-opting it saved them from losing elections, and it MIGHT have gone OK if they didn't get an honest statesman or two like Rand in the Senate, but now since that all transpired, they take big risks by straying too far from the movement's mandates.

In other words, Rand Paul is the fox guarding the hen house. But he's our fox. He's willing to play nice, but unlike regular politicians, there's the clear and present risk that if they piss him off he won't. There's the argument about how much Rand can and can't accomplish as a single Senator. But politically speaking, there's the question that the GOP is more concerned with, of how much friendly-fire damage to the Republicans a Senator Paul could do if he were so inclined. That's arguably the more powerful card Rand holds.

The last thing the Republicans want is a Senator Ron Paul with all the power and pulpit that comes with that position. And I'm sure they're more than a little concerned that if they don't play nice with Senator Rand Paul, he'll start acting like his father, but with the much larger platform of his Senate seat, and end up being the loudest and most brutal critic of the Republicans in the mainstream political theatre.

Then again, Rand is also just a genuinely good guy that you really *want* to get along with (I'm not just saying that as a dude sitting at a computer -- I've talked with him in person). That probably is the card he's playing right now. :) And if the GOP establishment is as scared of Rand as they perhaps could be justified in being, they've done a good job of hiding it ever since he won the primary -- they seem to be very congenial and supportive of him. Which is great.

thomas-in-ky
11-23-2010, 07:43 AM
I'm sure in the next 2 years, the "Tea Party" will be a thing in the past.

I beg to differ, but time will tell. In two years, the Tea Party could be twice the movement it is now.

It's a movement ripe for co-opting, but Rand has stepped up to occupy the spot at the top, thereby heading off the co-opters.