Remember, remember the 5th of November

[TechnoGuyRob]

Have you remembered to send out a message to all your Facebook, Myspace, e-mail, etc. friends?

Spread it!

[DrNoZone]

Have you remembered to send out a message to all your Facebook, Myspace, e-mail, etc. friends?

Spread it!

No, don't spread it. It's a stupid idea that's already getting bad coverage, as predicted.

[terlinguatx]

...

[jaumen]

No, don't spread it. It's a stupid idea that's already getting bad coverage, as predicted.

where is this supposed bad coverage?

[terlinguatx]

...

[DrNoZone]

where is this supposed bad coverage?

http://www.ronpaulforums.net/showthread.php?t=26897

And it's just the beginning. Downplay it if you want, but this is just a start.

[Lord Xar]

this is what I don't understand... MSM takes soundbites from ron paul out of contex, from day one they have been misrepresenting him, calling HIM and US names and such... and now there is an original idea, you are worried they'll give bad press? they do NOT need an excuse to post something bad, they do it all the time.... it is becoming a normal day when we read something negative, when the fuck are we gonna read something 'right and positive'?

why the msm and their editors/writers/reports prefer a corrupt politician in shillary and ghouliani is beyond me and speaks volumes of the integrity of those who are suppose to give unbiased information to the masses.

[DrNoZone]

this is what I don't understand... MSM takes soundbites from ron paul out of contex, from day one they have been misrepresenting him, calling HIM and US names and such... and now there is an original idea, you are worried they'll give bad press? they do NOT need an excuse to post something bad, they do it all the time.... it is becoming a normal day when we read something negative, when the fuck are we gonna read something 'right and positive'?

why the msm and their editors/writers/reports prefer a corrupt politician in shillary and ghouliani is beyond me and speaks volumes of the integrity of those who are suppose to give unbiased information to the masses.

Of course they don't need an excuse. But why give them AMMO?

[tfelice]

Not for nothing, but how many people actually saw this movie and will get the reference. I never heard of it until it was brought up here.

[steph3n]

on the upside no one is advocating violence, just giving money.

[DeadheadForPaul]

The mainstream media will pick this up and it will be horrible

Most people have never seen V for Vendetta and those that have often think of V as a terrorist rather than a freedom fighter.

This is the perfect way to alienate like 99% of the population over the age of 29

[jaumen]

I just don't see how it can really be taken as a true negative thing, it's a horrible stretch, and if people in general are dumb enough to think that because a fundraiser is being done on november 5th that it means we are violent anarchists, then this campaign is hopeless anyway.

[tfelice]

Of course they don't need an excuse. But why give them AMMO?


Exactly, I think some people seem to forget that we are playing in their sandbox. As much as we rebel against the MSM, we still need to realize that they are the ones controlling who hears what. The globalists will do everything they can to stop the Ron Paul candidacy, don't give them an inch. We need to be above reproach in all that we do. I think some of the younger supporters with all their zeal sometimes forget the reality of the situation.

[Bergie Bergeron]

You know you don't have to start 5000 threads on this when we're more than a week away...

[DrNoZone]

posticide

[katao]

The attacks have already started. We need to move it to Veterans Day, QUICKLY!

_____


Ron Paul supporters getting creepier by the minute

Does anyone know if America’s Greatest Patriot has formally distanced himself yet from any of the myriad kooks and cretins that have attached themselves to his hull? In this week alone we’ve been treated to a report that he’s the candidate of choice for Michigan militia types, an ad cooked up by supporters to reassure voters that the foul hand of Israel holds no sway over him (refering to Hamadeh's ad - which makes me think that Malkin and other journalists are lurking on our forums!!), and now this grassroots promo for a Paul event on November 5 — Guy Fawkes Day, in memory of the man who tried to blow up Parliament — with imagery borrowed from “V for Vendetta,” a violent quasi-anarchist revenge fantasy which creeped Ace out sufficiently to write two separate critiques of how dangerously incendiary it was.

The media’s starting to chatter about the peculiarities of some of the Bircheresque Crank’s more crankish, bircheresque supporters, but they’re always quick to qualify it by noting that Paul hasn’t sought their endorsement — which isn’t true, incidentally, in the case of Truthers, whom he’s deliberately wooed by appearing on Alex Jones’s radio show. But let’s grant that it’s true in the case of the three examples given above. Question: Why isn’t Paul being pressed by the media to denounce garbage like this the way Rudy Giuliani, say, surely would if he was the one acting as a troll magnet? If, for whatever reason, Giuliani had a strong following among Holocaust deniers, you’d better believe the press would be curious to know (a) why that is and (b) what Rudy planned to do to communicate to them that they should kindly bugger off. Have either of those screws been put to the Paulnut yet vis-a-vis Truthers, I wonder? The harshest thing I’ve heard him say about them is that he doesn’t believe in the conspiracy, but as far as taking their money and their requests for signed, lipstick-kiss photos, he seems more than happy to help them out.

A random Giuliani fundraiser solicits $9.11 donations, which are then duly denounced and refunded by the campaign, and it’s national news. How about the Guy Fawkes Day fundraiser, Ron? We cool with that too? Just one anti-authoritarian patriot using a day dedicated to another to make a little bank?

[Drknows]

The attacks have already started. We need to move it to Veterans Day, QUICKLY!

_____


Ron Paul supporters getting creepier by the minute

Does anyone know if America’s Greatest Patriot has formally distanced himself yet from any of the myriad kooks and cretins that have attached themselves to his hull? In this week alone we’ve been treated to a report that he’s the candidate of choice for Michigan militia types, an ad cooked up by supporters to reassure voters that the foul hand of Israel holds no sway over him (refering to Hamadeh's ad - which makes me think that Malkin and other journalists are lurking on our forums!!), and now this grassroots promo for a Paul event on November 5 — Guy Fawkes Day, in memory of the man who tried to blow up Parliament — with imagery borrowed from “V for Vendetta,” a violent quasi-anarchist revenge fantasy which creeped Ace out sufficiently to write two separate critiques of how dangerously incendiary it was.

The media’s starting to chatter about the peculiarities of some of the Bircheresque Crank’s more crankish, bircheresque supporters, but they’re always quick to qualify it by noting that Paul hasn’t sought their endorsement — which isn’t true, incidentally, in the case of Truthers, whom he’s deliberately wooed by appearing on Alex Jones’s radio show. But let’s grant that it’s true in the case of the three examples given above. Question: Why isn’t Paul being pressed by the media to denounce garbage like this the way Rudy Giuliani, say, surely would if he was the one acting as a troll magnet? If, for whatever reason, Giuliani had a strong following among Holocaust deniers, you’d better believe the press would be curious to know (a) why that is and (b) what Rudy planned to do to communicate to them that they should kindly bugger off. Have either of those screws been put to the Paulnut yet vis-a-vis Truthers, I wonder? The harshest thing I’ve heard him say about them is that he doesn’t believe in the conspiracy, but as far as taking their money and their requests for signed, lipstick-kiss photos, he seems more than happy to help them out.

A random Giuliani fundraiser solicits $9.11 donations, which are then duly denounced and refunded by the campaign, and it’s national news. How about the Guy Fawkes Day fundraiser, Ron? We cool with that too? Just one anti-authoritarian patriot using a day dedicated to another to make a little bank?


I thought we had a veterans day fundraiser planned? Why cant we do both? I didnt like the 5th idea but it already is taking off.

Someone make a site for vets day lets get that one ready.

[Ozwest]

this is what I don't understand... MSM takes soundbites from ron paul out of contex, from day one they have been misrepresenting him, calling HIM and US names and such... and now there is an original idea, you are worried they'll give bad press? they do NOT need an excuse to post something bad, they do it all the time.... it is becoming a normal day when we read something negative, when the fuck are we gonna read something 'right and positive'?

why the msm and their editors/writers/reports prefer a corrupt politician in shillary and ghouliani is beyond me and speaks volumes of the integrity of those who are suppose to give unbiased information to the masses.

The hierarchy is undone, the mighty are falling, the would-be elitists are washing my windows.

[ronpaulitician]

Yes, by all means, give in to the critics.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[DrNoZone]

Yes, by all means, give in to the critics.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Give in? No, some of us were wise enough to oppose it from the start. We're not giving in, we're just asking the rest to wise up.

[steph3n]

Really, if everyone complained about all that Malkin said there would be no end. She is the one that is kooky, "lock up all the muslims" in camps.....come on she has no cred herself. I don't really like the idea of this, but it is not the end of the world

[Spirit of '76]

I hate this idea because Guy Fawkes wasn't a heroic patriot fighting for Liberty; he was a fanatical theocratic terrorist who wanted to blow up Parliament and the king in order to install a Catholic monarch on the throne.

November 5th is celebrated because he failed. :rolleyes:

[DrNoZone]

I hate this idea because Guy Fawkes wasn't a heroic patriot fighting for Liberty; he was a fanatical theocratic terrorist who wanted to blow up Parliament and the king in order to install a Catholic monarch on the throne.

November 5th is celebrated because he failed. :rolleyes:

Good points! Not only will the media paint it in a bad light, but it's NOT EVEN RELEVANT TO THE RON PAUL REVOLUTION!

[ronpaulitician]

Give in? No, some of us were wise enough to oppose it from the start. We're not giving in, we're just asking the rest to wise up.
"Ah, the wise Ron Paul supporters won the day."

"Aha, those Paul supporters chickened out."

Which of the two do you think the critics will pick?

Paul himself has accepted the term "revolution" as part of his campaign now. Our founding fathers deemed violent resistance to be a necessary element of the cause of freedom from time to time.

It's not all that hard to use the V for Vendetta element to explain to people that although we believe in Jefferson's words, we do not want to let it get to that, and that we hope that Ghandi's peaceful resistance method will be able to turn this country back on the right path. This is a revolution of love, not of hate. Love for our country's founding principle of freedom.

[wfd40]

You 5th of November guys may just loose us this campaign - mark my words, this will be twisted into "Dean Scream v2.0"

Seriously - do you all have any idea how good the msm is at taking a story like this and polarizing it to meet their own anti-paul agenda??

With Dean - they simply isolated his mic, blocked out all crowd noise and thus, effectively made him look like a complete and utter loon. 30seconds worth of distorted video destroyed an entire movement (albeit one antithetical to what we're attempting to accomplish)

No amount of Ron Paul truth will be able to counter the MSM spin machine on a story like this...

Then again - all of the negative press could increase name recognition by creating a sort of "scandal". At that point, the question will become whether or not those newly exposed to Dr. Paul will take the next step and "Google him".

*IF* that happens.. perhaps all of the amazing ground work laid down thus far (re: youtube videos, blogs, articles etc.) will be enough to counter the lies - which would be pretty cool considering Dean had none of that and so was entirely bowed down by the frenzy of misinformation. If that were to occur, this could actually turn into quite the coupe.

But I digress..

[jaumen]

This isn't really based on Guy Fawke's Day though, it is based on V for Vendetta, which was only LOOSELY based on Guy Fawkes.

[TexMac]

'V for Vendetta'


by Butler Shaffer (bshaffer@swlaw.edu)
by Butler Shaffer

http://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-s-icon-l.gifhttp://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-s-text-l.gif (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer132.html#) http://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-e-icon-l.gifhttp://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-e-text-l.gif (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer132.html#) http://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-p-icon-l.gifhttp://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-p-text-l.gif (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer132.html#) http://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-mp-icon-l.gifhttp://a449.g.akamai.net/f/449/1776/1d/button.clickability.com/img/com/000099/h-mp-text-l.gif (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer132.html#)

I have always been a highly-critical moviegoer. I do not attend a film without first learning as much about it as I can, particularly from a synthesis of movie reviews and opinions provided by friends and relatives whose judgments I trust. As a consequence, I am not a “movie buff”; I have seen only one of the films nominated for major Oscars this year, Syriana, a picture I highly recommend.
It is for this reason that I awaited, with skeptical enthusiasm, the opening of V for Vendetta. I had heard so much about it ever since one of my daughters told me, a number of months ago, of a billboard she saw at the Warner Brothers studios with the accompanying language: “People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.”
My eager anticipation of seeing this film was tempered, somewhat, by past experiences. Was this to be just another superficial anti-establishment flick, with a few libertarian one-liners thrown in for effect, and a sufficient amount of pyrotechnics to induce teenagers to attend? I have seen enough movies in which tyrannical statists brutalize innocent people, but with an heroic FBI or Justice Department official entering, at the end, to expose and rectify the wrongdoing and, in so doing, leave the audience with the assurance that the “system” works to correct itself.
My wife and I attended the opening day of this film and, I am happy to report, it far exceeded my expectations. Not only is this the most powerful anti-state film I have ever seen – one that makes no compromises with the system – but is, purely from a film-making perspective, one of the best movies I have seen in some time. Had the subject matter of this film been anti-vivisectionism, the depletion of the rainforests, or the sorrows of divorcées, its acting, writing, direction, and other production features would have made watching it an enjoyable experience.
The story takes place in a 21st century England that is ruled by the most vicious of tyrants, played by John Hurt. In his regime, people are continually reminded that a state-imposed curfew is “for your protection,” with painful consequences awaiting those who do not comply. Into this setting steps the hero, “V” – played by Hugo Weaving – a man who had been brutalized by statist functionaries, and who is intent on destroying this most inhumane, fascistic state.
I shall not spoil the movie for you by revealing more of its story. Suffice it to say that, from a libertarian/anarchistic perspective, this film is for real! It digs beneath the surface of events to reveal the psychological factors – particularly our own fears – and institutional interests that combine to make tyranny possible. Natalie Portman – who plays the heroine, Evey – does a magnificent job playing out the sense of self-liberation so essential to a free life.
Prior to my attending this film, I encountered reviews by a few statists who saw the film as a “defense of terrorism.” Such a comment reveals more about the reviewers than of the movie itself. Any kind of resistance to tyranny is bound to strike terror into the hearts of members of the established order. Thus were the American colonials and Mohandas Gandhi “terrorists” to the British; the Warsaw ghetto uprisings and the French underground movements “terrorist” actions to the German government; and the organized resistance of Algerians acts of “terrorism” to the French. Even today, the Iraqi resistance to the destruction and domination of their country is regarded as “terrorism” by the invading American state!
The openly anarchistic nature of this movie will produce shudders in well-conditioned statists who, in the words of F.A. Hayek, cling to their “fear of trusting uncontrolled social forces.” Such people will trot out historic instances in which self-proclaimed “anarchists” killed a few score of people, as evidence of the need for government. That states managed, in the 20th century alone, to slaughter some 200,000,000 people in wars and genocides has never provided an occasion for defenders of political systems to do a practical cost/benefit analysis of these alternative systems!
While V for Vendetta contains a great deal of violence, “V” reminds us, early on, of the social application of Newton’s Third Law of Motion: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In a political context, it is as childish to posit the violence engaged in by one group as “peacekeeping” and the opposing group as “terrorism,” as it is to regard one side as “good” and the other as “evil.” It is the interdependent violence inherent in all political systems that is made evident in this film.
There is one poignant scene in this movie in which thousands of unarmed, peaceful individuals confront the well-armed military forces of the state. This scene, more than any other, may provide insight into how society might evolve in a world in which vertically-structured institutions are collapsing. The transformations of thinking that are arising from the study of “chaos,” or “complexity,” are producing changes in social behavior that make state systems obsolete. The predictability the statists imagine inheres in their structured apparatuses has been rendered illusory. Terry Pratchett’s observation that “chaos always defeats order because it is better organized,” reflects a world in flux. Perhaps a film such a V for Vendetta will provide us an opportunity to begin exploring the orderly nature of anarchistic systems (http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer60.html).
I have no doubt that this film will generate “terror” in the minds of those who regard the domination of others either as some inherent right or as an inevitable necessity for social order. But it is not the fear of violence that will be their principal concern. Violence will be the fear that the media will transmit to the boobeoisie to keep them huddled at the feet of their masters. The establishment’s fear is not that buildings will be blown up – on the contrary, the destruction of the World Trade Center actually benefited the state – but that men and women will begin to dismantle the structures of political authority in their thinking. To paraphrase the words of Evey, it is not buildings that people need, but hope.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/butler.jpgFor those who are serious about living in a society in which peace, liberty, and the inviolability of the human spirit prevail, V for Vendetta provides an opportunity to rethink our social assumptions; to develop new ideas about our relationships to one another. And as “V” informs us, “ideas are bulletproof.” This film is a powerful antidote to the mindset that is destroying mankind. It is not for those who wish only to reform the state and confirm beliefs that the 20th century has rendered no longer suitable to the interests of humanity.


March 20, 2006


Butler Shaffer [send him e-mail (bshaffer@swlaw.edu)] teaches at the Southwestern University School of Law.

[jaumen]

You 5th of November guys may just loose us this campaign - mark my words, this will be twisted into "Dean Scream v2.0"

Seriously - do you all have any idea how good the msm is at taking a story like this and twisting it to meet their own anti-paul agenda??

With Dean - they simply isolated his mic, blocked out all crowd sound and thus, effectively made him look like a complete loon. 30seconds worth of distorted video destroyed a movement (albeit one antithetical to what we're attempting to accomplish)

No amount of Ron Paul truth will be able to counter the MSM spin machine on a story like this...

Then again - all of the negative press could increase name recognition by creating a sort of "scandal". At that point, the question will become whether or not those newly exposed to Dr. Paul will take the next step and "Google him"


You guys are so overdramatic.

[Spirit of '76]

This isn't really based on Guy Fawke's Day though, it is based on V for Vendetta, which was only LOOSELY based on Guy Fawkes.

Never saw it. Not big on Hollywood.

[brumans]

You guys are overanalyzing it way to much.. we aren't going to get any negative press about this. It's not about the literal since of Guy Fawkes.. that's not even what V for Vendetta was about. It's about freedom and that's all that matters.

I don't see why you are against people donating money to Ron Paul. From the looks of it we are going to raise over $1,000,000 that day.. that would be AMAZING and would benefit the campaign so much. We already have so many people rallying around this idea, we can't end it now, nor should we. Just think about the money... this is a motivation for people to donate. Quit trying to ruin it.

[Ozwest]

Exactly, I think some people seem to forget that we are playing in their sandbox. As much as we rebel against the MSM, we still need to realize that they are the ones controlling who hears what. The globalists will do everything they can to stop the Ron Paul candidacy, don't give them an inch. We need to be above reproach in all that we do. I think some of the younger supporters with all their zeal sometimes forget the reality of the situation.

Today our special guest will tell us what it is like to have an extreme fear of being part of a revolution... To protect him we will cloak him in authorative propaganda.

[Spirit of '76]

Yeah, I really don't see it as a big deal.

I've never actually met anyone who mentioned seeing this movie in real life anyway.

I won't be participating as I'm not real keen on the Guy Fawkes association, but if it motivates people to donate, then whatever...

[DrNoZone]

I don't see why you are against people donating money to Ron Paul. From the looks of it we are going to raise over $1,000,000 that day.. that would be AMAZING and would benefit the campaign so much. We already have so many people rallying around this idea, we can't end it now, nor should we. Just think about the money... this is a motivation for people to donate. Quit trying to ruin it.

Against donating? Are you kidding me? I've lost track of how much I've donated. We're not against donating, we're just against THIS terrible idea.

[synthetic]

You guys are so overdramatic.

Its really getting sad. These forums are being filled with FUD 24/7.

[Taco John]

I can't understand why anybody would be against this. Quit cowering to the media. We've got a lot more to worry about than what people will think of a November 5th fundraiser.

[Taco John]

Its really getting sad. These forums are being filled with FUD 24/7.


No doubt. It's sick to see people sabotaging our efforts from the inside.

[allyinoh]

I'm so disgusted by some of the people on this board trying to get people not to donate just because it's the same day as some guy hundreds of years ago wanting to make a stand against the oppressive aristocracy.

I think some people need to get the heck over it. It's the message of FREEDOM and going AGAINST an oppressive government. We are not supporting violence or anything of the sort.

Do you honestly believe if we raise millions of dollars in one day the MSM will only have to say something about V for Vendetta? No.. if it was about that they would already be talking about it but only Michelle Malkin is talking about it.

Get over it.

[wfd40]

No doubt. It's sick to see people sabotaging our efforts from the inside.

If anyone is doing the "sabotaging", its you and the rest of the 5th of Novemberers...

I've given almost the max to this campaign so don't even for a second think that you can talk down to me or anyone else who has a problem with this idea. This campaign is about bringing people together under the tent of the constitution... not some retarded hollywood movie by the same guys who wrote the matrix.

[tfelice]

If anyone is doing the "sabotaging", its you and the rest of the 5th of Novemberers...

I've given almost the max to this campaign so don't even for a second think that you can talk down to me or anyone else who has a problem with this idea. This campaign is about bringing people together under the tent of the constitution... not some retarded hollywood movie by the same guys who wrote the matrix.

Agreed. I think some people forget we are working to elect the President of the United States. This isn't a game here to get the most YouTube views or MySpace friends. We are in the home stretch and our goal now is to reach out to the average American who pays little attention to politics.

[SeanEdwards]

I don't like the 5th of November idea either. V for vendetta was a stupid movie, and I don't think it does us any good to create a linkage between RP and a masked terrorist from a cheeseball flick.

Ron Paul is 'Hope for America' not violent terrorism for America.

[Ozwest]

I don't like the 5th of November idea either. V for vendetta was a stupid movie, and I don't think it does us any good to create a linkage between RP and a masked terrorist from a cheeseball flick.

Ron Paul is 'Hope for America' not violent terrorism for America.

"Rosebud"

[Spirit of '76]

I'm so disgusted by some of the people on this board trying to get people not to donate just because it's the same day as some guy hundreds of years ago wanting to make a stand against the oppressive aristocracy.

Again, I don't really care about this 5 November fundraising drive. If it's what you wanna do, then go for it.

But let's clear up the crap about Guy Fawkes wanting to "make a stand against the oppressive aristocracy." As I said before, he wasn't some patriotic hero fighting for Liberty for all.

He was just another theocrat who wanted to replace the Protestant monarchy with an equally oppressive Catholic one. Not exactly a role model for patriots struggling for Liberty in the American context...

[terlinguatx]

...

[literatim]

Guy Fawkes... failed.

[ross11988]

Guy Fawkes... failed.

But V didn't.....

[TechnoGuyRob]

But V didn't.....

I didn't even know who Guy Fawkes was until this November 5th idea (although I knew who V is).

[dircha]

I hate this idea because Guy Fawkes wasn't a heroic patriot fighting for Liberty; he was a fanatical theocratic terrorist who wanted to blow up Parliament and the king in order to install a Catholic monarch on the throne.

November 5th is celebrated because he failed. :rolleyes:

You have no idea.

The November 5th commemoration propaganda was instituted and perpetuated by the English state to serve to reinforce state sponsored persecution of Catholics and other State Church dissenters well into the 19th century.

And just like the graphic novel, just like the popular movie, we are taking this state propaganda and we are turning it on the establishment to fight for today the same underlying freedom that the state propaganda was instituted and perpetuated to suppress all those years ago - the same state propaganda that you seem so ready to praise.

Guy Fawkes and the coconspirators were freedom fighters who gave their lives fighting against the terrible persecution and tyranny faced by Catholics, non-conformist Protestants, and other resisters to the State Church who refused to confess allegiance and submission to the Church of England.

These groups were denied the right to vote, to hold office, to own land, to serve in the military, to possess weapons, to teach in schools, and denied the full protection of law.

They were forced to turn over their children to be educated in government schools, forced to register their location with the government, and denied full rights of inheritance.

This tyranny is in principal what our own "fanatical terrorist" founders fought and gave their lives for in the founding of this great country.

[dircha]

No guy fawkes, agreed. This is about V FOR VENDETTA!

Spirit of '76 has no idea what he is talking about.

Don't let him discourage you in what you are doing.

This is a fundraising effort for core, dedicated Ron Paul supporters, and it will make us stronger, not weaker.

[Ozwest]

You have no idea.

The November 5th commemoration propaganda was instituted and perpetuated by the English state to serve to reinforce state sponsored persecution of Catholics and other State Church dissenters well into the 19th century.

And just like the graphic novel, just like the popular movie, we are taking this state propaganda and we are turning it on the establishment to fight for today the same underlying freedom that the state propaganda was instituted and perpetuated to suppress all those years ago - the same state propaganda that you seem so ready to praise.

Guy Fawkes and the coconspirators were freedom fighters who gave their lives fighting against the terrible persecution and tyranny faced by Catholics, non-conformist Protestants, and other resisters to the State Church who refused to confess allegiance and submission to the Church of England.

These groups were denied the right to vote, to hold office, to own land, to serve in the military, to possess weapons, to teach in schools, and denied the full protection of law.

They were forced to turn over their children to be educated in government schools, forced to register their location with the government, and denied full rights of inheritance.

This tyranny is in principal what our own "fanatical terrorist" founders fought and gave their lives for in the founding of this great country.

Well said dircha, here in Australia, it has a whole different meaning than what some of the spinmeisters on this forun are putting on it. I'm sure in the U.K., the feelings are stronger than here.

[literatim]

You have no idea.

The November 5th commemoration propaganda was instituted and perpetuated by the English state to serve to reinforce state sponsored persecution of Catholics and other State Church dissenters well into the 19th century.

And just like the graphic novel, just like the popular movie, we are taking this state propaganda and we are turning it on the establishment to fight for today the same underlying freedom that the state propaganda was instituted and perpetuated to suppress all those years ago - the same state propaganda that you seem so ready to praise.

Guy Fawkes and the coconspirators were freedom fighters who gave their lives fighting against the terrible persecution and tyranny faced by Catholics, non-conformist Protestants, and other resisters to the State Church who refused to confess allegiance and submission to the Church of England.

These groups were denied the right to vote, to hold office, to own land, to serve in the military, to possess weapons, to teach in schools, and denied the full protection of law.

They were forced to turn over their children to be educated in government schools, forced to register their location with the government, and denied full rights of inheritance.

This tyranny is in principal what our own "fanatical terrorist" founders fought and gave their lives for in the founding of this great country.

Sorry, but I really do not care.

[Ozwest]

Sorry, but I really do not care.

What a inane statement!

[DeadheadForPaul]

Cant wait for all the coverage of RP supporters as kooks. You now, you could just hold a normal donation drive on Nov 5 and NOT associate it with a terrorist...but that would be too logical.

This is just like the rational side of the board vs. the voting fraud people thing...same kind of ridiculous bs

[dircha]

Sorry, but I really do not care.

You don't care about history, truth, and liberty? Well, that explains it, doesn't it?

Gee, big guy, why don't you take your ball and go home then? Tell your mommy on us.

[dircha]

Cant wait for all the coverage of RP supporters as kooks. You now, you could just hold a normal donation drive on Nov 5 and NOT associate it with a terrorist...but that would be too logical.

This is just like the rational side of the board vs. the voting fraud people thing...same kind of ridiculous bs

Read the #$*& thread and inform yourself.

"terrorist"?

How much is Giuliani paying you?

[me3]

Cant wait for all the coverage of RP supporters as kooks.
Do you really, really care? Do you think it will really matter? People are making a lot out of nothing.

[jrich4rpaul]

Apparently no one read my post how to end this.

What the f is everyone arguing about? I think it's just turned into arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you don't like the V idea, don't get involved with it.

November 5th is a fundraiser. Plain and simple.

[literatim]

You don't care about history, truth, and liberty? Well, that explains it, doesn't it?

Gee, big guy, why don't you take your ball and go home then? Tell your mommy on us.

Sorry, but this bit detail on this bit of history is irrelevant to the topic at hand.


Apparently no one read my original post in this thread.

What the f is everyone arguing about? I think it's just turned into arguing for the sake of arguing.

If you don't like the V idea, don't get involved with it.

November 5th is a fundraiser. Plain and simple.

The point is, this V thing is attached to Ron Paul's name.

[Hook]

Well, all of the naysayers have irritated me, so now I'm going to donate $200 instead of $100 on Nov. 5. So good job guys, you have helped the cause despite yourselves. :D

[Spanish for Ron]

The way I see it:

It has spread, and people are going to donate on november 5th. I too think this is a problem because of the theme. But it's gonna happen.

So the only way to prevent the association with V, for those who have problems, is to start opening new webs and creating more vids based on movies (like back to the future), historical facts, etc. so the V thing is just one in a bunch.

I really think this is the only way. Multiple webs, multiple well-done vids about different themes. So start doing it, now :)

[jake]

Well, all of the naysayers have irritated me, so now I'm going to donate $200 instead of $100 on Nov. 5. So good job guys, you have helped the cause despite yourselves. :D

the "naysayers" don't want people to hold back on donating, the argument is the message behind the donation drive is poorly conceived. don't twist it around.

[misconstrued]

Well, all of the naysayers have irritated me, so now I'm going to donate $200 instead of $100 on Nov. 5. So good job guys, you have helped the cause despite yourselves. :D

I've already maxed out ($2300), but I am going to be giving early xmas presents to friends/family for November 5th. I'm in for$400. Anyone else want to complain? If so, I won't hesitate making it $500 ;)

[Kacela]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAlPK8rrynE

[Hook]

I've already maxed out ($2300), but I am going to be giving early xmas presents to friends/family for November 5th. I'm in for$400. Anyone else want to complain? If so, I won't hesitate making it $500 ;)

There's the spirit! :D

[literatim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAlPK8rrynE

I laugh every time I watch that.

[paulitics]

Give in? No, some of us were wise enough to oppose it from the start. We're not giving in, we're just asking the rest to wise up.

exactly. And we were told to shut up. 70% on here like it does not mean 70% out there. Most are not V movie obsessed. I'm for freedom and liberty, not for some mediocre movie that is attached to Ron paul's name. Why is this any different than a truther mixing the two is beyond me. This movie does not represent the campaign, but by making this a big event, advertising across the internet to millions, then you guys make it represent the campaign. Its the same principal only on a much larger scale because you are forcing this to be a big media event.

[jgmaynard]

I've already maxed out ($2300), but I am going to be giving early xmas presents to friends/family for November 5th. I'm in for$400. Anyone else want to complain? If so, I won't hesitate making it $500 ;)

OK, I'll complain... "How DARE you give money on that day!!!! Shame, shame!!!"

Happy now? OK, now pony up the extra hundred. :D

JM

[misconstrued]

OK, I'll complain... "How DARE you give money on that day!!!! Shame, shame!!!"

Happy now? OK, now pony up the extra hundred. :D

JM

$500 :mad:

;)

[jgmaynard]

<Bad french accent>
Now go away, or i shall taunt you one more time!!!
</Bad french accent>

jk :D

JM

[Ozwest]

exactly. And we were told to shut up. 70% on here like it does not mean 70% out there. Most are not V movie obsessed. I'm for freedom and liberty, not for some mediocre movie that is attached to Ron paul's name. Why is this any different than a truther mixing the two is beyond me. This movie does not represent the campaign, but by making this a big event, advertising across the internet to millions, then you guys make it represent the campaign. Its the same principal only on a much larger scale because you are forcing this to be a big media event.

Why put the skids on a great fund raising idea because your worried about some abstract interpretation by Hanitty or Malkin? Is this your real concern, or is it the flexing of muscles by others that do not share your political "tilt"... Don't bother, I already know your answer...

[theprolific]

I'm giving $100 that day. The Nov 5th concept is inspiring.

[misconstrued]

This really is what is great about Ron Paul. He has a very broad spectrum of supporters. We just have to accept we are not going to always be in agreement here. Our differences are much greater than other candidates. This is a GOOD thing!

I'm all for opinions being freely expressed, but we have to agree to disagree on issues like this and not try to shape each other into the mold we think is best.

We should also try to abstain from personal attacks.

[TechnoGuyRob]

Don't forget to tell everyone you know, guys!

[paulitics]

Why put the skids on a great fund raising idea because your worried about some abstract interpretation by Hanitty or Malkin? Is this your real concern, or is it the flexing of muscles by others that do not share your political "tilt"... Don't bother, I already know your answer...

My concern is that this can seem "cultish and extreme" to the average Joe, the same way that truthers do when they mix their message with Ron Paul. When it is broadcsted to millions across the internet, it will pick up alot of gung ho V fans, yes, but plenty of average folks not obsessed with V or Ron Paul will be turned off. The average voter may not need Malkin or Hannity to tell them anything to come to that conclusion.

[TechnoGuyRob]

My concern is that this can seem "cultish and extreme" to the average Joe, the same way that truthers do when they mix their message with Ron Paul. When it is broadcsted to millions across the internet, it will pick up alot of gung ho V fans, yes, but plenty of average folks not obsessed with V or Ron Paul will be turned off. The average voter may not need Malkin or Hannity to tell them anything to come to that conclusion.

Please, shush. V for Vendetta's revenue was $131 million--that's from movie tickets < $10, meaning an audience of about 13 million. I'm sure we can find 100k Ron Paul fans out of that 13 million.

[TyTodd]

The November 5th donation concept is a cool idea and will bring in lots of money to the campaign, let's promote it regardless of the fact that not all are 100% behind the V associations. Dr. Paul needs this money. That said...

I'm donating $25 to the campaign right now in a request that we stop talking about this issue! The Nov. 5th concept is a cool idea. If there are those of us that might like to see it pulled off with less of the V reference, it ain't going to happen, and since this is an independent effort the man / woman behind the fundraiser has every right to promote it as they see fit. Now, let's stop all the bitchin' on both sides and move forward. If there is one thing we ALL agree on, it's that it will take a tremendous effort to get our beloved Dr. Paul into the White House, where we truly need him!

By the way, I'm posting this in all of the '5th' threads, and I would suggest that anyone else tired of this issue help me cap the threads out with donation messages...

<Thank you very much for your donation of $25.00 to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign...

Your confirmation number:
T64064-97181303.>

[Spirit of '76]

Spirit of '76 has no idea what he is talking about.

Don't let him discourage you in what you are doing.

This is a fundraising effort for core, dedicated Ron Paul supporters, and it will make us stronger, not weaker.


I've already said that I don't have any intent to discourage people from participating in this fundraising drive, so you can drop that line right here.


As for Guy Fawkes, you're the one putting spin on history to make it fit your own worldview.

The facts are that Guy Fawkes was a militant Catholic who wanted to use the explosives skills he picked up fighting for Catholic causes on the continent to reinstate Catholic rule in England.

If you honestly believe he cared about the rights of Dissenters, you're deluding yourself. They would have been as persecuted under the Catholic monarchy he wished to reinstate as they were under the Anglicans.

He was no hero, except to militant papists and deluded fools.

[NewEnd]

YAY!!

http://thisnovember5th.com/ put up back to the constitution! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAlPK8rrynE)