Cali School Forces Boy To Take American Flag Off Bike Fearing that Flag would Incite

[bobbyw24]

Apparently flying an American flag is akin to yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater

NAIR, Calif. -- A Stanislaus County school is forcing a student to take an American flag off of his bike.

Thirteen-year-old Cody Alicea put the flag there as a show of support for the veterans in his family.

But officials at Denair Middle School told him he couldn't fly it. He said he was told some students had complained.

So now the eighth-grader folds up the flag and puts it in his backpack while he is in class.

His father, Robert Kisner, said his son should not have to put the flag away.

"He's got that flag on his bike because he's proud of where he comes from," Kisner said.

But the superintendent said he's trying to avoid tension on campus.

"(The) First Amendment is important," Superintendent Edward Parraz said. "We want the kids to respect it, understand it, and with that comes a responsibility."

http://www.ksbw.com/r/25763175/detail.html

[hamilton1049]

Yeah ok stupid move and should have forseen the firestorm this was going to set off, but the school has backed down and will allow the boy to fly his flag.

[AxisMundi]

Yeah ok stupid move and should have forseen the firestorm this was going to set off, but the school has backed down and will allow the boy to fly his flag.

Glad to hear that.

Little thought was put into the situation by the superintendant in the first place.

If he thought disallowing an American Flag in an American school wouldn't generation "tension", he has no business being an educator.

We have a Constitutional Right to Free Speech. There is no right not to be offended.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

We have a Constitutional Right to Free Speech. There is no right not to be offended.

A kid does not have a right to free speech in school. The U.S. Supreme Court has already established this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick

[bobbyw24]

A kid does not have a right to free speech in school. The U.S. Supreme Court has already established this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick

So if the Supreme Court says that black people can legally be owned by other people, does that end the discussion for you?

[Theocrat]

"Our Hispanic, you know, kids will, you know, bring their Mexican flags and they'll display it, and then of course the kids would do the American flag situation, and it does cause kind of a racial tension which we don't really want," Parraz said. "We want them to appreciate the cultures."

It seems like they're saying they don't want American kids to display American flags because it might incite hatred from Mexican kids. What's sad about that is there are Hispanic kids who actually are proud to be Mexican...in America. I see that as one of the fundamental problems with multiculturalism; it tears down any pride in national identity and sovereignty.

[winston_blade]

It seems like they're saying they don't want American kids to display American flags because it might incite hatred from Mexican kids. What's sad about that is there are Hispanic kids who actually are proud to be Mexican...in America. I see that as one of the fundamental problems with multiculturalism; it tears down any pride in national identity and sovereignty.

Pride in anything that you had no decision in is ridiculous.

[KCIndy]

Pride in anything that you had no decision in is ridiculous.


Perhaps... but anyone who immigrates to the United States does make a choice when they come here. Whey would someone go to a different country and hope for citizenship and yet claim to be offended by that nation's flag?

If I took the time, trouble and expense to move to Canada and request Canadian citizenship, for instance, why would I feel offended by the Canadian flag?

[Theocrat]

Perhaps... but anyone who immigrates to the United States does make a choice when they come here. Whey would someone go to a different country and hope for citizenship and yet claim to be offended by that nation's flag?

If I took the time, trouble and expense to move to Canada and request Canadian citizenship, for instance, why would I feel offended by the Canadian flag?

Why would someone move to America and yet, be offended by one of its most honored symbols--the national flag? To make it worse, that same person then chooses to honor a flag from another country while being offended at others who honor the flag of the native country in which both live.

[Dr.3D]

Pride in anything that you had no decision in is ridiculous.

Thing is, those who immigrate (legally or not) to this country do have a decision.

[AxisMundi]

It seems like they're saying they don't want American kids to display American flags because it might incite hatred from Mexican kids. What's sad about that is there are Hispanic kids who actually are proud to be Mexican...in America. I see that as one of the fundamental problems with multiculturalism; it tears down any pride in national identity and sovereignty.

This argument against multiculturalism is just a distraction, and IMHO only enables outrageous displays such as that shown by the school in the OP.

America is indeed a melting pot of different cultures and ethnicities coming together to form a brand new culture unique throughout the world.

Neither Apple Pie or Baseball was invented here.

[AxisMundi]

A kid does not have a right to free speech in school. The U.S. Supreme Court has already established this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_v._Frederick

So what does promoting drug use have to do with a free speech issue like displaying an American Flag in an American school?

[Theocrat]

This argument against multiculturalism is just a distraction, and IMHO only enables outrageous displays such as that shown by the school in the OP.

America is indeed a melting pot of different cultures and ethnicities coming together to form a brand new culture unique throughout the world.

Neither Apple Pie or Baseball was invented here.

I'm sorry, but you don't come into somebody's home, disrespect their heritage, and then get angry when you are corrected.

[LibertyEagle]

"Our Hispanic, you know, kids will, you know, bring their Mexican flags and they'll display it, and then of course the kids would do the American flag situation, and it does cause kind of a racial tension which we don't really want," Parraz said. "We want them to appreciate the cultures."

This is beyond sickening. It is almost unbelievable that we have fallen this far in my lifetime. That we would stop an American child from displaying an American flag, because it might upset some damn illegal alien. Unfrickinbelievable.

Just fyi for anyone coming to this country. If you do not want to become an American, learn our language and embrace our culture, stay the hell out!

[AxisMundi]

I'm sorry, but you don't come into somebody's home, disrespect their heritage, and then get angry when you are corrected.

Mind showing where I stated, or even hinted, what you suggest?

[AxisMundi]

.....Just fyi for anyone coming to this country. If you do not want to become an American, learn our language and embrace our culture, stay the hell out!

Well said.

[erowe1]

This thread is another good example of why there should be no public schools.

[erowe1]

Just fyi for anyone coming to this country. If you do not want to become an American, learn our language and embrace our culture, stay the hell out!

What is our culture? And whose place is it to decide that?

[sluggo]

At my old high school, they banned ALL flags because of growing hostility between hispanics and the other students.

School went from being about .001% hispanic to 60% hispanic in less than 15 years.

[Humanae Libertas]

Illegal aliens run our schools now.

[AxisMundi]

This thread is another good example of why there should be no public schools.

And how would you suggest the majority of American kids, whose parents cannot afford private schools, be educated?

[BlackTerrel]

Illegal aliens run our schools now.

Stupid decision by school - but the freaking out as if it's happening everywhere isn't any better.

[erowe1]

And how would you suggest the majority of American kids, whose parents cannot afford private schools, be educated?

I don't know. But if you want to pay for school for them, nobody would stop you. There's no need to use the government as your middle man.

In addition to people like yourself who would contribute to a cause like that out of the kindness of their hearts, there's also all the businesses that benefit from having an educated workforce who would have incentive to help pay for schools.

Also lot of the kids we spend money schooling wouldn't be there without compulsory education anyway. And the cost per student of private education could easily be a fraction of what it is for public, with a superior result. So in the end, there wouldn't be that much money that would need to be raised for those kids.

[Philhelm]

Also, without public schools dominating the scene, we would likely see a higher quality of private educators. As it stands, in order to teach, one has to take the classes that the state demands, as well as a ton of child psychology bullshit classes, rather than courses that are relevant to the subject being taught.

[specsaregood]

//

[dannno]

So what does promoting drug use have to do with a free speech issue like displaying an American Flag in an American school?

LOL, does the t-shirt "Rehab is for quitters." promote drug use? Cause I knew a kid who would wear that shirt in high school.

[JustinTime]

This argument against multiculturalism is just a distraction, and IMHO only enables outrageous displays such as that shown by the school in the OP.

America is indeed a melting pot of different cultures and ethnicities coming together to form a brand new culture unique throughout the world.

Neither Apple Pie or Baseball was invented here.

Thats whats so troubling about this story, and other, similar stories that seem to pop up every year or so, we might not be a melting pot anymore. Too many people are choosing not to 'jump in the melting pot' and actually see their new homeland's flag as an incitement.

I mean really, gimme one reason why any kid would get violent over the sight of his countries flag? WTF are his parents teaching him? Whats the school teaching him?

If this attitude is common, the USA's headed for a bad place.

[JustinTime]

What is our culture? And whose place is it to decide that?

I dont want to digress here, but IMO our culture is freedom and equality before the law (but not necesssarily in anything else) and a sense of individualism.

[heavenlyboy34]

When I was in grade school, I volunteered to raise the flag up the flagpole in the AM and bring it down in the PM. It's seriously not a big deal. People who complain about flags need to find something better to do.

[Lord Xar]

Thats whats so troubling about this story, and other, similar stories that seem to pop up every year or so, we might not be a melting pot anymore. Too many people are choosing not to 'jump in the melting pot' and actually see their new homeland's flag as an incitement.

I mean really, gimme one reason why any kid would get violent over the sight of his countries flag? WTF are his parents teaching him? Whats the school teaching him?

If this attitude is common, the USA's headed for a bad place.

There is a serious drive towards balkanization going on. Many schools in California have mexican flags IN the classrooms, mexican history OVER american history etc... to me, this is part of the drive to create globalism and drive sovereignty minded individuals away from the United States.

Mexico is too close, whereas in generations past - italians, germans, polish, africans, spanish etc.. had to assimilate because a sea divided them from their homelands. Mexico is a stones throw and the left have used divisiveness to force the immigrants from mexico(and s. american countries) to vote for them thru this balkanization I spoke of. Plus, there is a real undertone of this "atzlan" vibe going on too.

But I think the major difference is the *number* of illegal immigrants AND immigrants in general. We have tens of millions of illegals, most of mexican descent here, also - most of the legal immigrants are of mexican descent. This literally "too much" of *one* culture creates an environment were assimiliation is not needed, and promotes tribe mentality.

The proof is in the pudding. Like a previous poster said "An american child gets told to not bring an american flag because of what others (who supposedly are american too) will do...." This open border philosphy has destroyed nations in the past..... yet, it is sorely wanted by many here.

America has a unique history, many of us know it -- import tens of millions of immigrants in such large numbers (without that history, or connection thereof), that uniqueness will be lost to the antiquities of time.

[JustinTime]

There is a serious drive towards balkanization going on. Many schools in California have mexican flags IN the classrooms, mexican history OVER american history etc... to me, this is part of the drive to create globalism and drive sovereignty minded individuals away from the United States.

Mexico is too close, whereas in generations past - italians, germans, polish, africans, spanish etc.. had to assimilate because a sea divided them from their homelands. Mexico is a stones throw and the left have used divisiveness to force the immigrants from mexico(and s. american countries) to vote for them thru this balkanization I spoke of. Plus, there is a real undertone of this "atzlan" vibe going on too.

But I think the major difference is the *number* of illegal immigrants AND immigrants in general. We have tens of millions of illegals, most of mexican descent here, also - most of the legal immigrants are of mexican descent. This literally "too much" of *one* culture creates an environment were assimiliation is not needed, and promotes tribe mentality.

The proof is in the pudding. Like a previous poster said "An american child gets told to not bring an american flag because of what others (who supposedly are american too) will do...." This open border philosphy has destroyed nations in the past..... yet, it is sorely wanted by many here.

America has a unique history, many of us know it -- import tens of millions of immigrants in such large numbers (without that history, or connection thereof), that uniqueness will be lost to the antiquities of time.

Its all about the mentality, when they see themselves as being parts of different groups that dont overlap or cant blend with others, you've got trouble. A nation cant really be a nation without some unity or common ground. Its just a piece of real estate with a bunch of different collectives squabbling on it.

Im not a flag waving patriot, I dont get all sappy over mere symbols, but I understand that symbols indicate states of mind the idea that immigrants will fight tooth and nail to physically remain in the country but cant embrace the identity at all, thats not immigration, its conquest.

We really need a timeout from immigration like we had from the twenties to the sixties.

[AxisMundi]

I don't know. But if you want to pay for school for them, nobody would stop you. There's no need to use the government as your middle man.

In addition to people like yourself who would contribute to a cause like that out of the kindness of their hearts, there's also all the businesses that benefit from having an educated workforce who would have incentive to help pay for schools.

Also lot of the kids we spend money schooling wouldn't be there without compulsory education anyway. And the cost per student of private education could easily be a fraction of what it is for public, with a superior result. So in the end, there wouldn't be that much money that would need to be raised for those kids.

So in other words, you don't really have a solution other than with "Down with the Establishment!"

How about we actually fix the public school system, instead of complaining about it?

One doesn't fix a leaky roof by burning down the house.

BTW, when our kids were in school, we were ver proactive in our school syste, and their education. One has only as far as lazy parents to see what happened to our school systems.

[AxisMundi]

The fact that states like New Jersey have a public teachers pension fund UNDERFUNDED to the tune of $46billion suggests to me that the majority of Americans (parents and non-parents alike) can't afford the public schools either.

That is a Teacher's Union and g'ment mismanagment considerations.

[AxisMundi]

LOL, does the t-shirt "Rehab is for quitters." promote drug use? Cause I knew a kid who would wear that shirt in high school.

And this has to do with the OP or the court case emntioned how?

[erowe1]

So in other words, you don't really have a solution other than with "Down with the Establishment!"

I don't know where you get the characterization of my view as "Down with the Establishment!" I'm against kidnapping and stealing, which are two things that happen when you have tax payer funded compulsory schooling. The fact that the establishment happens to like those things is beside the point. If the establishment took a more moral view of this, I'd be happy to agree.

I also don't know why you say that I don't have solutions, since the post you're quoting includes solutions.

I also don't know why you think it matters if I have solutions or not anyway. If the government is doing something it ought not to do, then we ought to demand that it cease, and in making that demand we don't carry any burden to be able to predict what specific market-based solutions will arise to replace the government-based one that we want eliminated.

If the government took over the pencil industry, and we all demanded that it cease involvement in making pencils, no doubt people like you would demand that we come up with an explanation of how we'll get pencils without a government centrally managing all the various parts of pencil making. And no doubt none of us would be able to explain the extremely complex process that actually does exist now for making pencils in the market place (http://fee.org/library/books/i-pencil-2/). But even without being able to explain it, we'd still be right. And we're right to advocate a free market for education as well.



How about we actually fix the public school system, instead of complaining about it?
Since it's inherently evil, I don't see why I would want to do that.

[Promontorium]

This can be a free speech issue. Though that's not the most significant aspect.

In a country that has become increasingly socialist, a country that talks about the obligations the individual has to provide for the community, a country that has excused removal of privacy for security, to the point of sexually assaulting babies to get on a plane, a government employee forbids a kid from displaying a symbol of the nation, in fear of hurting the feelings or angering anti-American middle-school students.

America has wiped two nations out of existence in the past 10 years, it has used it's diplomacy, money, power, and every other ounce of its influence to manipulate or change every other nation on earth.

And a government employee fears for a kid waving the American flag? This school is about two towns down from me, and boy, this isn't Mexico, this is the heart of California.

So which is it? Because our image, this nation's actions, would suggest those kids who are "offended" or "angered" by the American flag should be UAV'd or otherwise bagged and tagged. I mean, why are women getting under bra breast massages, babies getting their asshole's fingered, guys getting their balls juggled, when you can literally hate America so much by age 12 that you'd be a valid threat to anyone in this country even displaying the American flag and a government employee will acquiesce to your threat, and force a kid to put the flag away. If I went to the airport and threatened the TSA Agents because I was offended by their existence, would the government hand me their guns and let me fly?

You'd think this was post Civil War south, forbidding the flag of the Confederacy. If you think of it that way, who has defeated America? Who has made it so that bearing the flag will get you beat down?

[phesoge]

OVerall Multi-Culturalism is destroying this country.

[BlackTerrel]

OVerall Multi-Culturalism is destroying this country.

What's your solution?

[james1906]

What's your solution?

Savage has it right...borders, language, culture.

Multiculturalism has only promoted segregation.

[Marenco]

YouTube - Pat Buchanan: What is a Nation? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEO1yqJVXEU)

[phesoge]

What's your solution?

I would suggest we stop promoting the idea of groups ect.. and return to the premise of individuals. Hyping group identities only promotes fission among nations, and betwen groups. Hyping group identity is absurd, and multi-culturalism does exactly that. I would seek to promote the soveign individual over the fale sense of groups, and under standing "group identities"

[AxisMundi]

I don't know where you get the characterization of my view as "Down with the Establishment!" I'm against kidnapping and stealing, which are two things that happen when you have tax payer funded compulsory schooling. The fact that the establishment happens to like those things is beside the point. If the establishment took a more moral view of this, I'd be happy to agree.

Your use of demagogic rhetoric like "kidnapping" and "stealing" indicates your position on the matter quite succinctly.


I also don't know why you say that I don't have solutions, since the post you're quoting includes solutions.

I also don't know why you think it matters if I have solutions or not anyway. If the government is doing something it ought not to do, then we ought to demand that it cease, and in making that demand we don't carry any burden to be able to predict what specific market-based solutions will arise to replace the government-based one that we want eliminated.

You offered nothing but vague mutterings that solve nothing.

And people who merely complain about things without offering solutions are simply whiners.


If the government took over the pencil industry, and we all demanded that it cease involvement in making pencils, no doubt people like you would demand that we come up with an explanation of how we'll get pencils without a government centrally managing all the various parts of pencil making. And no doubt none of us would be able to explain the extremely complex process that actually does exist now for making pencils in the market place (http://fee.org/library/books/i-pencil-2/). But even without being able to explain it, we'd still be right. And we're right to advocate a free market for education as well.

Any other non sequitures? And if by "people like you" you mean people who think rationally, then I am guilty as charged.


Since it's inherently evil, I don't see why I would want to do that.

So mandating a certain level of education is somehow evil and you have to ask where I get your "down with the establishment" ideology?

Mandated education helped take this Nation to the heights we once enjoyed, both economically for our citizenry and as the premier industrial engine in the world.

And considering the "free market" (ie the free-for-all-market I have a feeling you endorse) is largely responsible for the economic mess we have found ourselves in today, I seriously doubt they could do a better job.

Public education needs to return to the solid educational institution it was in my youth, where people were taught a good basic foundational education, bolstered with extra-curricular courses in music, arts, languages, and especially sports.

THAT is the solution to the public school concern, not turning it over to the private sector.

[erowe1]

So mandating a certain level of education is somehow evil

Is that even debatable?

[erowe1]

the "free market" (ie the free-for-all-market I have a feeling you endorse) is largely responsible for the economic mess we have found ourselves in today


I knew your true colors would shine through eventually.

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://cbs13.com/local/cody.flag.rally.2.2010076.html

Hundreds Rally For Teen After U.S. Flag Uproar
http://llnw.static.cbslocal.com/Themes/CBS/_resources/img/images_image_282165854.jpg Boy Says He Hopes School Official Isn't Fired Over Incident (http://video.sacramento.cbslocal.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=5293316&at1=News&h1=School%20Apologizes%20Amid%20National%20Flag%20 Uproar&flvUri=&partnerclipid=)

http://llnw.static.cbslocal.com/Themes/CBS/_resources/img/images_image_282165854.jpg RAW: Supporters Sing National Anthem At Denair Flag Rally (http://video.sacramento.cbslocal.com/global/video/popup/pop_playerLaunch.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=5294231&at1=News&h1=RAW:%20Supporters%20Sing%20National%20Anthem%20 At%20Denair%20Flag%20Rally&flvUri=&partnerclipid=)

http://image.cbslocal.com/22/2009/02/03/75x56/NickJanes.jpg Reporting
Nick Janes (http://cbs13.com/bios/reporter.cbs13.good.9.924980.html)
DENAIR, Calif. (CBS13) ―
http://image.cbslocal.com/22/2010/11/15/175x131/denairrally.jpg
Cody Alicea said he was surprised at the amount of attention he's received over the flag incident.

CBS Liberty (http://cbs13.com/local/cody.flag.rally.2.2010076.html#) and justice for all for a Denair teen after being told he shouldn't ride his flag-flying bike to school.

Cody Alicea hopped on his patriotic bike this morning and was escorted Denair Middle School (http://cbs13.com/local/cody.flag.rally.2.2010076.html#) by hundreds of motorcyclists who supported his right to fly the red-white-and-blue.

Dozens of people lined the streets as the noisy parade let by a smiling Cody made its way to the school.

Once at the campus (http://cbs13.com/local/cody.flag.rally.2.2010076.html#), even more people joined Cody to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The 13-year-old then shed some tears as the crowd started an impromptu rendition of the Star Spangled Banner.

The rally came about after school officials had told Cody he shouldn't ride his American flag-decorated bike to school because some students were offended.

The school's decision kicked up a firestorm of protest that spanned the country.

Edward Parazz took full responsibility for what he called a big mistake, saying he understands why the furor erupted after 13-year-old Cody Alicea was told to leave his flag-decorated bike at home.

"Apologies to all the veterans, all the Americans," Parazz said. "This is all on me. I didn't want this to happen to the community, the veterans, the whole country."

The district, now facing a lawsuit from a civil liberties group, says they'll make sure no other student is told they can't fly the American flag.

[Promontorium]

And considering the "free market" (ie the free-for-all-market I have a feeling you endorse) is largely responsible for the economic mess we have found ourselves in today, I seriously doubt they could do a better job.


Where in the WORLD has there been a "free-for-all-market" in your lifetime, and although, I know there's no answer, what exactly about this caused ALL OF OUR ECONOMIC PROBLEMS? You have to prove every problem was caused by a pure tax free, lawless, supervisorless market or you are a liar.

[Cowlesy]

Hell yeah, pic #8 of 12 is my favorite!


http://www.kcra.com/slideshow/news/25797539/detail.html

[oyarde]

There are problems beyond scope in the first place if a nations flag can be feared to incite violence in a taxfunded school system .

[HOLLYWOOD]

Yeah Baby! Those damn Tea Baggers as Rachel Maddow used to saying are nothing but trouble. Let's see potty mouth Marist of BSNBC try to schread this one.


Kirk Layton, of the American Legion, confirmed Sunday afternoon that 500 motorcycles, along with an unknown number of Tea Party members, will escort the 13-year-old to school on Monday.

Denair Unified School District Superintendent Edward Parraz said he got calls from halfway around the world about the flag; even some soldiers in Afghanistan called to complain

[HOLLYWOOD]

Hell yeah, pic #8 of 12 is my favorite!


http://www.kcra.com/slideshow/news/25797539/detail.html (http://www.kcra.com/slideshow/news/25797539/detail.html)
Denair Superintendent Apologizes For Prohibiting American Flag


Denair Unified School District Superintendent Edward Parraz said he got calls from halfway around the world about the flag; even some soldiers in Afghanistan called to complain

http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-denairunifiedapology,0,1276869.story?track=rss

Ben Deci FOX40 News


DENAIR —
FOX40 was the only station at a special school board meeting in Denair Sunday where the district superintendent apologized for the school's flag policy.

The American flag will be flying at Denair Middle School tomorrow, but today it was more like the white flag of surrender. "It should have never happened. I especially apologize to the veterans who have served our country proudly." said the superintendent Edward Parraz.

Parraz was speaking at a special school board meeting called to address policy on 14-year-old Cody Alicea's flag, and to address service men and women who have been watching the controversy from around the world.

"Veterans all over the world, litterally all over the world" Parraz said.

FOX40's coverage of the flag flap went viral prompting a massive response after Denair School told Cody to take the Stars and Stripes off his bike because it could be a source of tension for students with other backgrounds and nationalities.

"Every school's going to have invariably those types of tensions to deal with. Tensions between kids- its just part of school." Parraz said.

"I just wanted the nation to know we are proud of our flag." said Cassie Olson, a parent.

But it's not just an image problem their schools were facing.

" If somebody chooses to fly a Nazi flag Monday morning they fall under the same First Amendment rights, like it or not." said one mad during the public comment portion of the school board meeting.

The school board is also facing a lawsuit, one they hoped to head off today with the special meeting and the apology. ;)

[AxisMundi]

I knew your true colors would shine through eventually.

A rational thinking human being not locked into parisan politics to the point of ignoring plain reality, and a person who realizes that teh free-for-all market you endorse only harms the economy?

Certainly.


Is that even debatable?

Considering the benefits to America?

No.

[AxisMundi]

Where in the WORLD has there been a "free-for-all-market" in your lifetime, and although, I know there's no answer, what exactly about this caused ALL OF OUR ECONOMIC PROBLEMS? You have to prove every problem was caused by a pure tax free, lawless, supervisorless market or you are a liar.

In my half-century of life, I have seen the economy evolve from regulated markets and g'ment endorsed monopolies, like Ma Bell, to the heavily deregulated markets also deviod of overseas trade controls that the past Administration, and the GOP in general, support, endorse, and forward.

That is a free-for-all market where corperate greed rules, a shark-like feeding supply-side frenzy where the simple concepts of supply-and-demand economics, and the resulting balancing actions of competition, are completely absent, allowing Big Corp to set whatever prices they want.

We the Consumer are simply chum in such an economic environment, with goods and services priced farther and farther out of reach of the average consumer.

Plain history proves my point.

[AxisMundi]

...." If somebody chooses to fly a Nazi flag Monday morning they fall under the same First Amendment rights, like it or not." said one mad during the public comment portion of the school board meeting.

Now, quite plainly I support this kid's right to display our National Flag at an Ameican school.

It is an over-reaction typical in an "Atmosphere of Eggshells", so to speak, where g'ment officials are more worried about somone being offended then thinking things through properly.

Certainly minorities should be provided with Equality under US Law, but last time I checked, Ilelgal Immigrant was not a Protected Class of minority, or even recognized as a valid minority in need of Equality.

But this "mad's" (sic) comment shows as little thought on the situation as that shown by the school superindendant.

[JustinTime]

In my half-century of life, I have seen the economy evolve from regulated markets and g'ment endorsed monopolies, like Ma Bell, to the heavily deregulated markets also deviod of overseas trade controls that the past Administration, and the GOP in general, support, endorse, and forward.

That is a free-for-all market where corperate greed rules,

Nobody gets up in the morning and goes to work out of the goodness of their own heart. I know it sounds awful to over-emotional twits, but its true and nothing you do will change it.

You can either learn it the easy way, by listening to us, or the hard way, ala the collapse of the USSR.



a shark-like feeding supply-side frenzy where the simple concepts of supply-and-demand economics, and the resulting balancing actions of competition, are completely absent, allowing Big Corp to set whatever prices they want.

We the Consumer are simply chum in such an economic environment, with goods and services priced farther and farther out of reach of the average consumer.

Plain history proves my point.

Why would any business price goods and services out of reach of more and more people? Thats just stupid. I run a small business, I supply and stock restroom and janitorial supplies for other, larger businesses, and if it were practical, Id have contracts with everyone to stock their homes baths.

Its that drive to make as much a profit as possible triggers innovation and finds ways to reduce costs, and put goods and services within reach of more and more people. Government doesnt and never has.

[AxisMundi]

Nobody gets up in the morning and goes to work out of the goodness of their own heart. I know it sounds awful to over-emotional twits, but its true and nothing you do will change it.

You can either learn it the easy way, by listening to us, or the hard way, ala the collapse of the USSR.

I find your rather failed attempts at insult rather humerious.

Feel free to substantiate your remarks above concerning my comments. And please, keep the cherry picking and out-of-context quotes to a minimum.


Why would any business price goods and services out of reach of more and more people? Thats just stupid. I run a small business, I supply and stock restroom and janitorial supplies for other, larger businesses, and if it were practical, Id have contracts with everyone to stock their homes baths.

Instant profit gratification with little thought to the long term effects is what permits Big Corp (feel free to show where I even suggest small businesses) to charge more for their services.

Today, large companies that think in the long term may not be making billions, but they are weathering the financial weather quite well, and look to come out in the end in great shape.

The recent spike in fuel prices are an example of Big Corp not thinking in the long run, and looking for that instant profit gratification.


Its that drive to make as much a profit as possible triggers innovation and finds ways to reduce costs, and put goods and services within reach of more and more people. Government doesnt and never has.

Quite agreed. The supply-and-demand economic theory is a time tested, stable environment. Regulated capitalism is what drove this Nation to her former industrial greatness.

However, the GOP/Conservative supported supply-side economic theory, aka trickle down aka free-for-all market, has proven itself since the Reagen Era to be a doomed-to-fail economic experiment.

Yet people still support it. Go figure.

[JustinTime]

I find your rather failed attempts at insult rather humerious.

Feel free to substantiate your remarks above concerning my comments. And please, keep the cherry picking and out-of-context quotes to a minimum.

You're replying to a quote taken out of context, stop cherrypicking. :D


Instant profit gratification with little thought to the long term effects is what permits Big Corp (feel free to show where I even suggest small businesses) to charge more for their services.

Today, large companies that think in the long term may not be making billions, but they are weathering the financial weather quite well, and look to come out in the end in great shape.

The recent spike in fuel prices are an example of Big Corp not thinking in the long run, and looking for that instant profit gratification.

Then they'd go out of business were it not for government propping them up, but the problem here is the government propping them up, not the desire for instant profit gratification.


Quite agreed. The supply-and-demand economic theory is a time tested, stable environment. Regulated capitalism is what drove this Nation to her former industrial greatness.

However, the GOP/Conservative supported supply-side economic theory, aka trickle down aka free-for-all market, has proven itself since the Reagen Era to be a doomed-to-fail economic experiment.

Yet people still support it. Go figure.

Still looks pretty regulated to me, more and more so every day.

[Promontorium]

In my half-century of life, I have seen the economy evolve from regulated markets and g'ment endorsed monopolies, like Ma Bell, to the heavily deregulated markets also deviod of overseas trade controls that the past Administration, and the GOP in general, support, endorse, and forward.

That is a free-for-all market where corperate greed rules, a shark-like feeding supply-side frenzy where the simple concepts of supply-and-demand economics, and the resulting balancing actions of competition, are completely absent, allowing Big Corp to set whatever prices they want.

We the Consumer are simply chum in such an economic environment, with goods and services priced farther and farther out of reach of the average consumer.

Plain history proves my point.

You haven't written anything here, you just restated an unsupported argument. You cannot show where an actual example of a free market exists. And without any real example, you can't show causation. The word "deregulated" simply means the government instituted monopoly has been slightly freed. Show any example of a regulation free, tax free, industry, and then I swear to god to show cause and effect, you're going to need more than a paragraph.

You have failed to defend your incorrect and irrational argument. You do not have facts, you have emotions. You want mommy and daddy, you can't prove you're actually their kid. Go home.

[AxisMundi]

You haven't written anything here, you just restated an unsupported argument. You cannot show where an actual example of a free market exists. And without any real example, you can't show causation. The word "deregulated" simply means the government instituted monopoly has been slightly freed. Show any example of a regulation free, tax free, industry, and then I swear to god to show cause and effect, you're going to need more than a paragraph.

You have failed to defend your incorrect and irrational argument. You do not have facts, you have emotions. You want mommy and daddy, you can't prove you're actually their kid. Go home.

I will "prove" mine as soon as you prove yours.

This is a thread on a Freedom of Speech issue, not an economic thread.