Radical Libertarian Patrick Henry on Morality and Liberty

[sofia]

For those who think Austrian Economics alone will fix everything.....

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." - Patrick Henry

[denison]

For those who think Austrian Economics alone will fix everything.....

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." - Patrick Henry

this is what i talked about in my other thread. austrian ecomonics and conservative morals are the foundation of a productive libertarian society. you can't seperate the two.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Non Aggression is the foundation for libertarian society. So long as one party can lawfully resort to initiating aggression or coercion to resolve a dispute there is no libertarian society.

[sofia]

its very simple


immoral people screw up their lives...and then have no moral compunction over taking money from the government to bail them out...

immoral people also have no problem with bombing other countries...

immoral people dont form or maintain families.....they just have cheap sex instead. Given that families are the building blocks of a healthy civilization....the destruction of the family leads to alienated people easily dominated by organized tyrants

and immoral people dont get angry when politicians lie, cheat, and steal because they themselves lie, cheat. and steal...

this is why the left always attacks religion and moral tradition....its how they weaken us before enslaving us

[marc1888]

When did the founders become anything other than men? :)

[StilesBC]

I am living proof that living with morals does not require religion. Millions of others are as well.

[Slutter McGee]

its very simple


immoral people screw up their lives...and then have no moral compunction over taking money from the government to bail them out...

immoral people also have no problem with bombing other countries...

immoral people dont form or maintain families.....they just have cheap sex instead. Given that families are the building blocks of a healthy civilization....the destruction of the family leads to alienated people easily dominated by organized tyrants

and immoral people dont get angry when politicians lie, cheat, and steal because they themselves lie, cheat. and steal...

this is why the left always attacks religion and moral tradition....its how they weaken us before enslaving us

moral people don't illogically blame every bad thing that happens on a single group of people.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[LibertyEagle]

For those who think Austrian Economics alone will fix everything.....

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." - Patrick Henry

Great post. +rep

[sofia]

I am living proof that living with morals does not require religion. Millions of others are as well.

Indidual agnostics and athesist may be moral....just like individual Christrians can be immoral.

But in the broad scheme of things....a society without a religious, or some guiding moral philosophy and code of conduct.....will not endure in liberty for too long.

[sevin]

i

immoral people also have no problem with bombing other countries...


I know some "moral" religious types who also have no problem bombing other countries.

[silentshout]

I am living proof that living with morals does not require religion. Millions of others are as well.

Same here.

[sofia]

I know some "moral" religious types who also have no problem bombing other countries.

part of our nation's immorality is the fact that so many "church goers" advocate war...John Hagee, pat Robertson etc.

these people aren't "religious" nor are they moral as far as im concerned.

When I talk about religious people...I mean people who truly follow the precepts of their Faith....like Ron Paul.

[ChaosControl]

Morality is necessary for a functioning society, not just a libertarian society. Although yes, it is necessary for a libertarian society as well as you'd need people who would help others and not only themselves.

[TruckinMike]

I know some "moral" religious types who also have no problem bombing other countries.

Many people attach themselves to the word Christian, but not to its doctrine. They repeat it, but don't even try to live it.

FACT:
It is a requirement for the con-man to create a positive rapport with his mark.

Many people all across America say they are Christian for a gain; social, financial or other. Politicians and preachers are no exception.

TMike

[nobody's_hero]

I was raised in a Christian family, but I haven't picked up a Bible in ages and I'm more of a deist now than a member of any formal religion. Undoubtedly, my upbringing helped form my 'moral code', but I do question some things from my upbringing that seem less about personal morality than a means to oppress.

I will say that those who believe there is no god, but still you pose no threat to others because you have somehow arrived at a 'moral code' absent of influence from 'god' or 'religion', I commend, but I'll never stop wondering how you managed to pull it off.

[ClayTrainor]

I will say that those who believe there is no god, but still you pose no threat to others because you have somehow arrived at a 'moral code' absent of influence from 'god' or 'religion', I commend, but I'll never stop wondering how you managed to pull it off.

The same way you let your bible collect dust, yet still don't go around shooting people in the face. ;)

[nobody's_hero]

The same way you let your bible collect dust, yet still don't go around shooting people in the face. ;)

But that is kind of like, speaking hypothetically, you might have had a racist math teacher who first taught you that 2+2=4.

You can accept the fact that 2+2=4. You can denounce racism. It is easy to pick and choose among those, but one thing you cannot change is that he was the teacher who first taught you that 2+2=4.

[/analogy]

We know that murder is wrong, but how did we arrive at such a conclusion?

I'm not trying to be critical or offensive here, but I'm just trying to figure out where atheists get their moral code, if not from religion, or at least, adopted beliefs from those who aligned with religions.

[denison]

I know some "moral" religious types who also have no problem bombing other countries.

those people aren't moral, though. they are immoral and use religion as a tool.

[denison]

I am living proof that living with morals does not require religion. Millions of others are as well.

true. but, in general, religion includes a lot of basic moral teaching that can help create a civil society. of course people can come to these basic moral conclusions on their own, but that would asking too much from some people.

religion is binding and easy to distill. it makes it a good outlet for teaching morality.

[low preference guy]

true. but, in general, religion includes a lot of basic moral teaching that can help create a civil society. of course people can come to these basic moral conclusions on their own, but that would asking too much from some people.

religion is binding and easy to distill. it makes it a good outlet for teaching morality.

it's also great to get people used to obey authority without questioning

[denison]

it's also great to get people used to obey authority without questioning

that's why i favor decentralized religion. people can follow the doctrine and principles at a local level or individual pace without an authority figure to adhere to.

[low preference guy]

that's why i favor decentralized religion. people can follow the doctrine and principles at a local level or individual pace without an authority figure to adhere to.

they all appeal to the authority of an invisible crazy old bearded man who they can't even see or hear

[Modern_Matthew]

All a man needs is a rational set of principles for which to live his life.

Until man can evolve beyond "faith" and use reason, the advancement of liberty will be a difficult task.

[ClayTrainor]

But that is kind of like, speaking hypothetically, you might have had a racist math teacher who first taught you that 2+2=4.

You can accept the fact that 2+2=4. You can denounce racism. It is easy to pick and choose among those, but one thing you cannot change is that he was the teacher who first taught you that 2+2=4.

[/analogy]

And your priest/pastor/whatever could have been a child rapist who first taught you about "morality"...



We know that murder is wrong, but how did we arrive at such a conclusion?


Reason and evidence. I don't want people to initiate coercion against me, therefore it's wrong for me to initiate coercion against others. I don't want to be murdered, therefore it's wrong to murder others. I don't want someone raping me, therefore it's wrong to rape others. etc.



I'm not trying to be critical or offensive here, but I'm just trying to figure out where atheists get their moral code, if not from religion, or at least, adopted beliefs from those who aligned with religions.

Reality. Not everyone who is religious is moral and vice versa. Not everyone who is atheist is immoral and vice versa. Morality is entirely separate from religion, Theism/Atheism and ancient stories.

I don't need ancient books written by men to tell me what morality is. I don't need men who claim to speak to a God, to tell me how to determine right from wrong. Do you?

[Dripping Rain]

Great thread. I dont see why someone would give it 1 star? Are morals a bad thing for some people? Even Ron Paul said one of our problems is lack of morals

[mediahasyou]

For those who think Austrian Economics alone will fix everything.....

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." - Patrick Henry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_(propaganda))

[nobody's_hero]

Do you?

To some extent, perhaps. The question is one of philosophy: How much of what we know is natural from birth, and how much of it is taught to us?

It would be lovely if everyone were to be born with a 'libertarian moral code.' It would make the r3volution's work much easier.

Obviously, many folks out there have been taught otherwise, or we would not be having this conversation on a website dedicated to the man who is in turn dedicated to spreading that 'moral code.' So, I think influence has a lot to do with it. Either you're influenced by what religious people do, influenced by what they don't do, or perhaps, you learned from someone who learned from someone whose moral code came from religion.

Humanity could just as easily have ended up NOT viewing murder as 'immoral.' Instead of rationalizing it as 'treat others as you would have them do unto you', we could have said 'survival of the fittest, and you don't fit, so I'll just get my sword out and . . . *slice chop chop slice*.' Thank [whomever] that line of thinking didn't develop into a standard 'moral code'. :eek: