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View Full Version : Principled liberal loses, back-room deal maker wins big



Agorism
11-04-2010, 07:42 PM
Every Victory Has Its Quirks (http://polipundit.com/?p=27568)


"Harry Reid, the conniving dealmaker, won. But Russ Feingold, the principled liberal, lost."


Just though I'd point that out


http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/looselips/files/2010/08/harry_reid_gun.jpg

PS- Congrats Ron Johnson!
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 07:48 PM
"Harry Reid, the conniving dealmaker, won. But Russ Feingold, the principled liberal, lost."

Did you forget about the UnConstitutional McCain-Feingold campaign finance law?

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act
Agorism
11-04-2010, 07:50 PM
Did you forget about the UnConstitutional McCain-Feingold campaign finance law?

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act


Ya he was the only senator to vote against Patriot Act. He was moderately principled at least more so than Reid.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 07:57 PM
The Freedom Index (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) (Constitution Report Card) rated Russ Feingold as 33% Constitutional.

Kicking Russ Feingold out is a victory!
Major_C_Natural
11-04-2010, 08:52 PM
The Freedom Index (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) (Constitution Report Card) rated Russ Feingold as 33% Constitutional.

Kicking Russ Feingold out is a victory!Yeah, and Shelby, with his 80%, and Graham's 87% make them shining examples of Constitutionalists. This index does not even include the Patriot Act (which I must remind, Feingold voted against renewing) but it considers the DREAM Act unconstitutional (Even though Congress has the authority of naturalization?)

But if you must reference the chart, then at least Feingold has the highest score out of all the Democrats.
starless
11-04-2010, 08:56 PM
Feingold at least respected civil liberties and never became a part of the machine. I may have disagreed with him on a lot of issues, but you'd be hard pressed to find a more principled Senator. He voted against the war in Iraq, against the PATRIOT Act, tried to go after Bush over illegal wiretapping, voted against the extension of the Clinton gun ban, spoke out in favor of the majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, and was a strong supporter of gay rights.
nate895
11-04-2010, 08:56 PM
Yeah, and Shelby, with his 80%, and Graham's 87% make them shining examples of Constitutionalists. This index does not even include the Patriot Act (which I must remind, Feingold voted against renewing) but it considers the DREAM Act unconstitutional (Even though Congress has the authority of naturalization?)

But if you must reference the chart, then at least Feingold has the highest score out of all the Democrats.

That was from the 111th Congress. As far as I know, the PATRIOT Act was not voted on during this past Congress. Furthermore, the GOP has been forced into a conservative corner this past Congress because of the Tea Party.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 08:57 PM
Yeah, and Shelby, with his 80%, and Graham's 87% make them shining examples of Constitutionalists. This index does not even include the Patriot Act (which I must remind, Feingold voted against renewing) but it considers the DREAM Act unconstitutional (Even though Congress has the authority of naturalization?)

The Freedom Index I displayed is for the 111th Congress. Most Republicans will naturally score higher because they are out of power.

This doesn't change the fact that Russ Feingold scored a 33% on the Constitution.
oyarde
11-04-2010, 08:57 PM
You really think Reid won ?
amy31416
11-04-2010, 08:59 PM
Did you forget about the UnConstitutional McCain-Feingold campaign finance law?

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act

You give Bachmann a pass for being rabidly pro-war and pro-Patriot Act, yet you condemn Feingold for his stupid bipartisan campaign "reform" bill.

Interesting priorities.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:04 PM
You give Bachmann a pass for being rabidly pro-war and pro-Patriot Act, yet you condemn Feingold for his stupid bipartisan campaign "reform" bill.

Interesting priorities.

I'm dumping on Russ Feingold for being 33% Constitutional.


The Freedom Index (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) (Constitution Report Card) rated Russ Feingold as 33% Constitutional.
Feeding the Abscess
11-04-2010, 09:06 PM
The Freedom Index (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) (Constitution Report Card) rated Russ Feingold as 33% Constitutional.

Kicking Russ Feingold out is a victory!

Not when he's replaced by a pro-PATRIOT Act warmonger.
Major_C_Natural
11-04-2010, 09:07 PM
That was from the 111th Congress. As far as I know, the PATRIOT Act was not voted on during this past Congress. Furthermore, the GOP has been forced into a conservative corner this past Congress because of the Tea Party.
My bad. I did not notice which Congress it is. But my point still stands: Feingold is probably the best Democrat in Congress and definitely a lot better than many Republicans overall.

But it does not matter now. He lost to a neocon and many people here are cheering.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:09 PM
My bad. I did not notice which Congress it is. But my point still stands: Feingold is probably the best Democrat in Congress and definitely a lot better than many Republicans overall.

The "Best" Democrat with a 33% Constitutional Rating. :rolleyes:
amy31416
11-04-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm dumping on Russ Feingold for being 33% Constitutional.


The Freedom Index (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) (Constitution Report Card) rated Russ Feingold as 33% Constitutional.

That's all you keep spouting, and you didn't write it, it's meaningless...name the specifics that you dislike/like.

It's silly to give Bachmann a pass, and not Feingold--very partisan.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:14 PM
That's all you keep spouting, and you didn't write it, it's meaningless...name the specifics that you dislike/like.

It's silly to give Bachmann a pass, and not Feingold--very partisan.

Read this:


Are you guys frickin' kidding me?

She attends Dr. Paul's lunch meetings and according to Thomas Woods, she is willing and eager and is learning. She asked Dr. Paul to come to her state and speak at her rallies and he accepted. Judge Napolitano has had her on his show. Bachmann has said she is going to setup a Constitution class for the newbies coming to Congress. She even asked the Judge if he would come teach it.

Is she perfect? Hell no! There is only one Ron Paul. But, with all the outright enemies there are out there, I fail to see why anyone would choose to attack someone who thinks highly of Dr. Paul and is attending Dr. Paul's classes.

Damn.
Feeding the Abscess
11-04-2010, 09:17 PM
Hey, Frank, Ron and Alan Grayson came together and introduced two incredibly awesome bills.

You gonna consider Grayson an indispensable ally?
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:19 PM
Hey, Frank, Ron and Alan Grayson came together and introduced two incredibly awesome bills.

You gonna consider Grayson an indispensable ally?


Alan Grayson (http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/Freedom_Index_111-4.pdf) - 15% Constitutional!
Feeding the Abscess
11-04-2010, 09:24 PM
How many bills concerning foreign policy, PATRIOT Act, Military Commissions, etc were included in that study? Bachmann would drop and Grayson would rise, if there were any.

There are far more unConstitutional bills in existence besides the ones listed by that mag.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:30 PM
How many bills concerning foreign policy, PATRIOT Act, Military Commissions, etc were included in that study? Bachmann would drop and Grayson would rise, if there were any.

There are far more unConstitutional bills in existence besides the ones listed by that mag.

Judging from the 111th Congress. Alan Grayson failed. Bye bye.
amy31416
11-04-2010, 09:34 PM
Read this:

Those are Nancy's observations, not yours. And I realize that she, just like Feingold, has some positive aspects.

But for some bizarre (and obvious) reason, you think Bachmann's okay, and Feingold's scum. Honestly, I think it's a mix of partisan bias and the possibility that you're not all that against the wars, or the Patriot Act, etc.

And that's fine, I suppose, but you ought to be honest rather than just continually copying and pasting other people's words/stats. That's hollow and meaningless.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:46 PM
Those are Nancy's observations, not yours.

So What?


But for some bizarre (and obvious) reason, you think Bachmann's okay, and Feingold's scum.

Ron Paul and Judge Napolitano like her too. Will you insult them as well?


Michelle Bachmann is hanging out with Ron Paul. Lets hope he can influence her.


Ron Paul's speech, with Michele Bachmann

YouTube - Ron Paul's speech, with Michele Bachmann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleZcGvr5UQ)
BenIsForRon
11-04-2010, 09:48 PM
Frank Rep is a lot like Glenn Beck. Impervious to information that doesn't confirm his worldview.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:50 PM
Frank Rep is a lot like Glenn Beck. Impervious to information that doesn't confirm his worldview.
Please explain.
sailingaway
11-04-2010, 09:53 PM
Yeah. I'd SO gladly trade those....

And yeah he did 'bad' stuff, he's on the opposite side. But he's also the only Senator who voted against the Patriot Act -- even the first time.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 09:59 PM
Yeah. I'd SO gladly trade those....

And yeah he did 'bad' stuff, he's on the opposite side. But he's also the only Senator who voted against the Patriot Act -- even the first time.

He did ONE good thing and a bunch of bad things. Kick Feingold out.
amy31416
11-04-2010, 10:05 PM
So What?



Ron Paul and Judge Napolitano like her too. Will you insult them as well?


Michelle Bachmann is hanging out with Ron Paul. Lets hope he can influence her.


Ron Paul's speech, with Michele Bachmann

YouTube - Ron Paul's speech, with Michele Bachmann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleZcGvr5UQ)

Never heard any of them yap on about what a scumbag Feingold is, and use other people's words/stats ad nauseum, rather than a set of their own principles to defend it.

I am not insulting you, I am questioning the depth of your principles--which seem based on some pretty superficial criteria. I don't have to do the same with Napolitano or Paul--they've proven over and over the depth of their thoughts.

P.S. "Appeal to authority" whether it be Nancy, the Judge or Ron Paul doesn't help in a legit argument.
nate895
11-04-2010, 10:06 PM
Frank Rep is a lot like Glenn Beck. Impervious to information that doesn't confirm his worldview.

BenIsForRon is a lot like FrankRep. Impervious to information that doesn't confirm his worldview.

P.S. No offense at you, FrankRep, I'm just trying to make a point.
Kludge
11-04-2010, 10:07 PM
Feingold lost and is no longer relevant. I think it's a shame Feingold lost, but at the same time, I can take comfort in knowing the same people who hated Feingold in this thread probably liked Alan Grayson. At any rate, this conversation is pointless.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 10:10 PM
I am not insulting you, I am questioning the depth of your principles--which seem based on some pretty superficial criteria. I don't have to do the same with Napolitano or Paul--they've proven over and over the depth of their thoughts.

My principles are based on the Constitution. What part of my principles do you have a problem with?
amy31416
11-04-2010, 10:14 PM
My principles are based on the Constitution. What part of my principles do you have a problem with?

The ones where you give a person a pass for being vehemently pro-unconstitutional war and anti civil liberties--and condemn another person who was obviously better on both issues merely because of their party.

That is all.

If you can't see that...there's nothing left to discuss.
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 10:16 PM
The ones where you give a person a pass for being vehemently pro-unconstitutional war and anti civil liberties--and condemn another person who was obviously better on both issues merely because of their party.

Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul both support Michele Bachmann.

Are you going to attack them now?
amy31416
11-04-2010, 10:26 PM
Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul both support Michele Bachmann.

Are you going to attack them now?

http://www.lolblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/facepalm.jpg
FrankRep
11-04-2010, 10:28 PM
...
You didn't know Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul both support Michele Bachmann?

She's has excellent potential and she's getting educated on the economy and the Constitution.
Agorism
11-05-2010, 04:42 PM
You didn't know Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul both support Michele Bachmann?


For leadership position?
amy31416
11-05-2010, 05:01 PM
For leadership position?

She's not an ally, she's a useful tool for a few very specific things. If she wants to go kill people in the Middle East, she's welcome to get out her own pocket book, buy a ticket, an AK-47, and have at it.

She can't still claim to be pro-life though.