Now, we need to make sure Rand dances with the people who brought him. [Archive]

skyorbit

11-03-2010, 09:44 PM

As you all know, I've been highly supportive of Rand. I even ran my own blog during the primary (that is, until my hand's got so messed up I couldn't -- BTW, my therapist seems to have treated that pretty well.)

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but, I do have concerns. He's stated support for Israel, hasn't been willing to openly advocate any depts he'd like to cut completely, he doesn't seem nearly as anti-war as his father.

In a nut shell, he seems to be libertarian-lite: constitutionalist-lite too. I mean, why not try to repeal the unconstitutional parts of the civil rights act?

I hope that he is ever bit as much like his father, and he was kind-of pandering to the conservative KYians -- A radical libertarian. Unfortunately, that's not typically the case. If a politician isn't willing to publicly state the positions we want him to state, he's not going to do it in office. (That's straight from campaign for liberty training at the Rally for the Republic.)

Bottom line, Rand isn't incorruptible. It's our job to keep him on the straight and narrow.

Another thing we were taught at the training was to punish your own first. We need to make sure we're willing to do that in 6 years if he doesn't walk it.

Tracy

MRoCkEd

11-03-2010, 09:46 PM

We should hold his feet to the fire for sure.

Bruno

11-03-2010, 09:49 PM

We should hold all of our politicians accountable, and we can do so while being supportive and not destructive when they share our beliefs.

klamath

11-03-2010, 09:50 PM

So it starts.

Aldanga

11-03-2010, 09:50 PM

+1776

Brooklyn Red Leg

11-03-2010, 09:50 PM

We should hold his feet to the fire for sure.

Indeedy. I may have missed it, but I want him to state unequivocally a non-interventionist position. It would do a great deal to alleviate my anxiety over Rand.

low preference guy

11-03-2010, 09:51 PM

it's too early to go paranoid and crazy. you guys should still be recovering from the celebration.

BuddyRey

11-03-2010, 09:55 PM

Agreed, all the way. Everything up to now has been a "dress rehearsal", but now begins the real deal. From here on out, everything Rand does in office, defensible or indefensible, will go into his legislative record. Only in the next several months will we find out whether Rand is a continuation of his father's brilliant legacy, or a denial of it. Good luck, Rand. The world is watching.

klamath

11-03-2010, 10:00 PM

All I care about is Rand will be more true to RP principles than the susposed "people that brought him to the dance" The sooner some of you ditch Rand and Ron the better off they will be.

Brooklyn Red Leg

11-03-2010, 10:09 PM

All I care about is Rand will be more true to RP principles than the susposed "people that brought him to the dance" The sooner some of you ditch Rand and Ron the better off they will be.

:rolleyes:

WTF is THAT supposed to mean?

Fozz

11-03-2010, 10:16 PM

I expect Rand to primarily focus on cutting spending and reforming healthcare rather than speak against the drug war or the "evil Zionists". He can only do so much, and he has to pick his battles wisely. As long as he doesn't do anything that reduces our liberty, I'll be more than happy with him.

malkusm

11-03-2010, 10:24 PM

I agree 100% with the premise of your post, but:

He's stated support for Israel,

Could you source this? Because I haven't seen it.

sailingaway

11-03-2010, 10:44 PM

Actually he said he'd like to get rid of the depts of education and energy at minimum, just that he didn't really think he'd ever get a vote on that.

I don't think we should assume there will be anything wrong with his policy. I do expect him to not make every single issue a blow up, but to target specifics, because he is there to get stuff done.

But definitely, we will hold him accountable, and he knows that about us.

On the flip side, he is who he is, and we shouldn't ASSUME he has done something terrible just because he is out of sight with someone we don't like. DC is FULL of people we don't like and in order to get anything done, he has to work with them.

His policies will become apparent over time, and we will need to hold him accountable, of course.

sailingaway

11-03-2010, 11:14 PM

I agree 100% with the premise of your post, but:

Could you source this? Because I haven't seen it.

He said our relationship with Israel is special. Well, it is. Our relationship with every country is special. He said he'd be against foreign aid against Israel, keeping silent on his views on foreign aid, period. If you applied everything he said to all countries it was noninterventionism. when you only mention it selectively, it gives a different flavor.

On the other hand he was asked outright by someone if he would put Israel first and he said he would put America first.

Aldanga

11-03-2010, 11:46 PM

Travlyr

11-04-2010, 12:10 AM

While I thoroughly enjoyed his acceptance speech, it is better to watch what he does than listen to what he says.

BuddyRey

11-04-2010, 12:30 AM

I do trust Rand to do the right thing and see his talk as clever politics, but my thought is that we must never become complacent regarding those we help to elect. Never trust the man in Washington; test him always.

+1. This is all I or anyone else here is saying. I firmly believe Rand is going to be one of the best (if not the very best) U.S. Senators in American history. But now's not the time for his constituents to rest on their laurels either. The man is going to have to face some tough choices in this session and he'll no doubt face a great deal of political pressure from the establishment/neoconservative side of the DC machine.

I wish him well, praying that God fortifies him to fulfill the revolutionary role with which he has been tasked, and that he recognizes the favor-and-power brokers for what they are.

BuddyRey

11-04-2010, 02:57 AM

Sola_Fide

11-04-2010, 03:25 AM

Rand has NEVER said that he supported Israel, if by that you mean foreign aid.

Rand is against foreign military aid to Israel. The "special relationship" he talked about in that position paper was a SPIRITUAL relationship, not a legal or strategic one. Read that paper again. There is nothing in Rand's position that is not non-interventionism all the way through...

skyorbit

11-04-2010, 07:23 PM

+1. This is all I or anyone else here is saying. I firmly believe Rand is going to be one of the best (if not the very best) U.S. Senators in American history. But now's not the time for his constituents to rest on their laurels either. The man is going to have to face some tough choices in this session and he'll no doubt face a great deal of political pressure from the establishment/neoconservative side of the DC machine.

I wish him well, praying that God fortifies him to fulfill the revolutionary role with which he has been tasked, and that he recognizes the favor-and-power brokers for what they are.

I firmly believe Rand is going to be one of the best (if not the very best) U.S. Senators in American history.

I hope he will be too.

Rand's said a couple times believes Israel should have US help in any war they are forced into, and seems to at least pander to the Iran bandwagon. There's a rumor that Last Thanksgiving Rand was asked to leave at Ron Pauls dinner table. I don't know if it was substantiated or not, but there are legitimate concerns.

When I first started supporting Rand, I had dreams of him filibustering every single bill that was unConstitutional, or that grew government. 1 good Senator is all it takes to stop the increase in bleeding. Now, those dreams are mere hopes.

Tracy

low preference guy

11-04-2010, 07:26 PM

Rand's said a couple times believes Israel should have US help in any war they are forced into

source? i read every article and watch every interview of Rand that I have access to. i've never once heard him say that.

When I first started supporting Rand, I had dreams of him filibustering every single bill that was unConstitutional, or that grew government. 1 good Senator is all it takes to stop the increase in bleeding. Now, those dreams are mere hopes.

i think the odds of that happening are very close to zero.

There's a rumor that Last Thanksgiving Rand was asked to leave at Ron Pauls dinner table. I don't know if it was substantiated or not, but there are legitimate concerns.

that was a joke Rand made to reporters about disagreeing with Ron on Guantanamo. is the rumor you're talking about your interpretation of that joke?

specsaregood

11-04-2010, 07:52 PM

that was a joke Rand made to reporters about disagreeing with Ron on Guantanamo. is the rumor you're talking about your interpretation of that joke?

I think that joke got taken literally and run with for awhile there. I seem to recall a series of "oh noes" articles.

low preference guy

11-04-2010, 08:03 PM

I think that joke got taken literally and run with for awhile there. I seem to recall a series of "oh noes" articles.

wouldn't surprise me. i finally got used to pathetic people.

skyorbit

11-04-2010, 08:05 PM

i think the odds of that happening are very close to zero.

:(

that was a joke Rand made to reporters about disagreeing with Ron on Guantanamo. is the rumor you're talking about your interpretation of that joke?

OK. That makes me feel a little bit better. I was defending RAnd on the Daily paul during that whole contraversy, although I do agree with his father instead.

Tracy

specsaregood

11-04-2010, 08:07 PM

For the record:
http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-02-16/ron-paul-rand-paul-principles-not-compromise/

Anderson Cooper: Can you envision a time when Senator Paul, if you become Senator Paul, and Congressman Paul are at odds?

Rand Paul: Possibly. When I was home at Thanksgiving the whole debate was whether they’re going to still let me sit at the main table this time because we’re having some disagreements. But in the end they did let me eat Thanksgiving at the main table. So, my dad and I … I like to use the words that I’m a constitutional conservative. My dad likes to call himself and has been called the Champion of the Constitution. And I think that’s where there is a great deal of similarity. There will be some differences of opinion because a lot of us support the Constitution, [but] we don’t always interpret it the same way.

low preference guy

11-04-2010, 08:08 PM

jmdrake

11-04-2010, 08:26 PM

In a nut shell, he seems to be libertarian-lite: constitutionalist-lite too. I mean, why not try to repeal the unconstitutional parts of the civil rights act?

Because that misses the point of the problem and makes you look like a 1904 "bourbon democrat". The problem isn't the CRA. It's the Wickard v. Filburn decision that part of the CRA is based on. Look at the big picture you can fix a lot more without looking racist. And if you haven't read Wickard v. Filburn please Google it and read it.

As for the war stuff, I'm willing to see how he actually votes. The rumor is the GOP is planning a showdown on the Afghan "draw down" next year. (Personally I think any "draw down" is crap. We need a pull out.) As for the "special relationship with Israel"? Yeah, we have one. We shouldn't though.

TonyFromTheBronx

11-04-2010, 09:30 PM

Rand really needs to come out strong against these wars. His silence is worrying me/

Anti Federalist

11-05-2010, 01:37 AM

Could you source this? Because I haven't seen it.

FWIW

The following month, he (Rand Paul) met with officials from the powerful lobbying group AIPAC (the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), which has frequently clashed with Ron Paul over what the group views as his insufficient support of Israel. Paul, according to one person familiar with the AIPAC meeting, "told them what they wanted to hear: 'I'm more reasonable than my father on the things you care about.' He was very solicitous."

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/poli...printable=true

sailingaway

11-05-2010, 06:27 AM

FWIW

The following month, he (Rand Paul) met with officials from the powerful lobbying group AIPAC (the American Israel Public Affairs Committee), which has frequently clashed with Ron Paul over what the group views as his insufficient support of Israel. Paul, according to one person familiar with the AIPAC meeting, "told them what they wanted to hear: 'I'm more reasonable than my father on the things you care about.' He was very solicitous."

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/poli...printable=true

Which means nothing with certainty except 'I'm not the boogey man'. He opened lines of communication. However, that trip was in May, the exact same trip where he met with National Review as noted in this article: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/04/tea-party-obama-make-strange-bedfellows-afghanistan-war/

an excerpt:

"How long is long enough? It's too simplistic to say there is never a time to come home, or that it's unpatriotic to debate. There are reasonable people, conservatives like me, who believe that defense is the primary role of the federal government but do not believe that you can make Afghanistan into a nation. It never has been one," he said.

Paul has also been openly critical of military spending. While he said in a videotaped statement on his campaign site that he would have voted to support the Afghanistan war, he would not say the same about the Iraq war, which he said "inflamed an entire region," and he posed a question that might apply to the debate ahead: "In the end, you have to ask yourself -- do you kill more terrorists than you create?"

Jordan

11-05-2010, 07:03 AM

and he posed a question that might apply to the debate ahead: "In the end, you have to ask yourself -- do you kill more terrorists than you create?"

He understands blowback.

I'm not worried at all about Rand. There was a pre-election Rand and a post-election Rand we haven't yet seen. Post-election Rand, IMO, will be far more libertarian than pre-election Rand.

skyorbit

04-08-2012, 10:28 PM

LOL. I was just looking back on this thread, and I think you're right! (Thankfully.)

John F Kennedy III

04-08-2012, 11:38 PM

Rand is our next president after Ron.

The Northbreather

04-09-2012, 01:44 AM

Rand is our next president after Ron.
I was thinking last night that he is just sitting back playing the game waiting for his old man to get in office so he can be the conduit for some serious liberty legislation. No veto's being stamped on Rand's bills. It's going to be a good situation.

row333au

04-09-2012, 02:27 AM

Sept 22 2011
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/09/odd-air-force-one-couple-obama-rand-paul/1#.T4Ka5NlItkM

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/sep/22/kentucky-leaders-making-case-obama-ohio-river-brid/

Remember when Congressman Dennis Kucinich (used to be the Ron Paul equivalent for the Democrats) took a "plane ride" with Obama, and when he came back after 3 hours became a "changed man" with a 180-degree shift in his opinions? MK Ultra programs are real, its been running since the late 50s cold wars....

We'll need to keep a close eye on Rand Paul in the future (and reverse the effect with proper treatment), won't we?

The Northbreather

04-09-2012, 03:26 AM

(and reverse the effect with proper treatment)

which is what?

row333au

04-09-2012, 09:57 AM

which is what?

Try psychologist and psychiatry or behavioral sciences to correct undue influences...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kidaUuSt3w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nz8Ah32NgY&feature=related

row333au

04-09-2012, 09:58 AM

deleted for double posting

Slutter McGee

04-16-2012, 05:55 PM

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/09/odd-air-force-one-couple-obama-rand-paul/1#.T4Ka5NlItkM

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/sep/22/kentucky-leaders-making-case-obama-ohio-river-brid/

Remember when Congressman Dennis Kucinich (used to be the Ron Paul equivalent for the Democrats) took a "plane ride" with Obama, and when he came back after 3 hours became a "changed man" with a 180-degree shift in his opinions? MK Ultra programs are real, its been running since the late 50s cold wars....

We'll need to keep a close eye on Rand Paul in the future (and reverse the effect with proper treatment), won't we?

Oh fuck. Really?

Goddamnit,

Slutter McGee

GeorgiaAvenger

04-16-2012, 06:08 PM

See, do you really want him to pursue repealing parts of the Civil Rights Act? Especially when we have a black President?

Some people understand politics, other don't.

Don't blow everything because of a few pet issues.

GeorgiaAvenger

04-16-2012, 06:09 PM