Dumb Californians still want Big Government...

[Humanae Libertas]

I swear we are the dumbest state in the nation, no wonder we rank dead last in education:

Marijuana Legalization Proposal in California Opposed by 49%, Poll Finds (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-31/marijuana-legalization-proposal-in-california-opposed-by-49-poll-finds.html)


A California ballot measure to legalize marijuana for recreational use has lost popularity in the past month, according to the final statewide survey by the Field Poll before the Nov. 2 election.

Support for Proposition 19 has fallen to 42 percent of likely voters, with 49 percent against, according to the results of a Field Poll released today. Last month, those in favor outnumbered opponents 49 percent to 42 percent, the poll said.

The measure would allow people 21 years of age and older to grow and possess marijuana in small quantities for personal use, and would allow local governments to tax marijuana businesses.

Californians will consider propositions including an $18 per vehicle annual license fee to help maintain state parks and a plan for congressional districts to be drawn by a citizen commission rather than lawmakers.

Likely voters continued to oppose a proposition to suspend a state law requiring reduced greenhouse-gas emissions until California’s unemployment rate falls to at least 5.5 percent for four consecutive quarters. The rate was at 12.4 percent in September. Thirty-three percent endorse Proposition 23, while 48 percent oppose it.

Voters supported a proposition allowing the state Legislature to approve a budget with a simple majority, instead of the current two-thirds. Forty-eight percent backed the measure, while 31 percent opposed it.

The survey of 1,092 people who had either already cast their ballot by mail or were likely to vote was conducted Oct. 14-26 and has a margin for error of plus or minus 3.2 percentage points.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Drivers Licenses were never meant for their actual rhetorical purposes. It's time we exposed the licenses for what they are -- State databases and surveillance tools.

You don't see any other State-licensing procedures requiring the sort of information on your license. It is out-and-out a purely ID system. Ridiculous (And they charge you up-front for this 'service' LOLers)

[klamath]

We are still f***** here in California. I think that the news will be coming to California on election night saying this is the only bright spot in the nation for the democrats. I think it is going to be a complete democratic sweep with democratic agendas passing in the propositions. Sad sad. Wish us Californians luck.

[futo555]

I swear we are the dumbest state in the nation, no wonder we rank dead last in education:

[/URL]

blame it on the rain...err sunshine!

[Deborah K]

....and out of the ashes will rise a new republic!!

What.

I can dream, can't I?!

[Deborah K]

I swear we are the dumbest state in the nation, no wonder we rank dead last in education:

Marijuana Legalization Proposal in California Opposed by 49%, Poll Finds (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-31/marijuana-legalization-proposal-in-california-opposed-by-49-poll-finds.html)

Have you forgotten? We're the land of nuts and fruits! :D

[silentshout]

//

[Aratus]

i do assume most happily governor moonbeam part two looms, i see ...?
is CEO MEG planning to quit running HER ads by november 15th or sooner?

[RonPaulCult]

So we get all of the shitty "liberal" things to pass and then Prop 19 fails? Everybody is too "conservative" to legalize pot? WTFFFFFFFF???

I've only lived in this state for less than a year and I can't stand it.

[jmdrake]

I think prop 19 has been hurt by all of the "It's just a scam by big government to tax pot" types.

[LibertyBrews]

I'll be looking out for California to be the first state to fail when they reelect big tax and spenders Boxer and Jerry Brown, expect theese creeps to come crawling for bailout from the Feds in a short time.

[Brian4Liberty]

I think prop 19 has been hurt by all of the "It's just a scam by big government to tax pot" types.

Yes, hard-core pot advocates turned against Prop 19. May seal it's fate.

Ironically, I was also discussing this with an extreme left-winger that I know. Don't forget, many on the left are authoritarians. They want a massive government that controls every aspect of life. You will conform! :rolleyes:

[Deborah K]

I'll be looking out for California to be the first state to fail when they reelect big tax and spenders Boxer and Jerry Brown, expect theese creeps to come crawling for bailout from the Feds in a short time.

Fiorina just might pull it off. And we re-called the last democrat governor, Grey Davis. Who knows what will happen?

[klamath]

I think prop 19 has been hurt by all of the "It's just a scam by big government to tax pot" types.

Yes and the section in the prop that makes it almost impossible for an employer to fire someone that shows up at work stoned. A judge ruled that even with a med MJ permitt employers could still fire someone that showed up at work stoned. Aparently the writers of Prop 19 were trying to close that loophole and make the employer have to prove impairment. It did 19 in for me.

[Jordan]

Aparently the writers of Prop 19 were trying to close that loophole and make the employer have to prove impairment. It did 19 in for me.

Yeah, that part of the bill sucked. Prove impairment or you can't fire someone you suspect to be smoking weed at work. Goofy.

Call me an authoritarian, but I wish any future legalization of drugs bill would come with a "piss in a cup for welfare" provision.

[jmdrake]

Yes and the section in the prop that makes it almost impossible for an employer to fire someone that shows up at work stoned. A judge ruled that even with a med MJ permitt employers could still fire someone that showed up at work stoned. Aparently the writers of Prop 19 were trying to close that loophole and make the employer have to prove impairment. It did 19 in for me.

I wasn't aware of that part. Legalizing pot shouldn't be used to further restrict employers rights. I am baffled by the "Don't tax pot" crowd though. Maybe it's different in California, but where I live everything you buy retail is taxed. If I buy $1 worth of lettuce, 9 cents goes to state and local government. Why should pot be exempt? And from what I understand pot is easy to grow. If your against being taxed, grow your own.

Anyway, I wonder what would happen if someone tried a "legalize hemp" initiative? Would it pass once people realized you can't even get high off of hemp? Or would it fail because stoners wouldn't care because you can't get high off of hemp?

[robert9712000]

i dont follow you,why is it a bad thing to make a employer have to prove your impaired to fire you? A person can work without any impairment under a small buzz

[georgiaboy]

I swear we are the dumbest state in the nation, no wonder we rank dead last in education:



So weird, I remember back some decades ago when California's avant garde educational system was considered the shining beacon for all to look up to.

Now there are commercials advertising for people to go live there. How times have changed.

[Jordan]

i dont follow you,why is it a bad thing to make a employer have to prove your impaired to fire you? A person can work without any impairment under a small buzz

There are plenty of costs associated with smokers of any type. Higher health insurance, more sick days, etc.

Why should an employer be forced to keep them on staff?

[klamath]

i dont follow you,why is it a bad thing to make a employer have to prove your impaired to fire you? A person can work without any impairment under a small buzz

If I am an employer should you be required to to prove I am a mean boss before YOU can quit?

[robert9712000]

well the problem is forced health care not the person smoking,if you wanna go that route then a employer should be able to fire you if ya eat fatty foods cause we know its not healthy for you.

As a employer i guess you should be able to fire for whatever reason you want .Which i guess makes the provision a mute point in that regard.Atleast agree that its dishonest at the very least to say im going to fire you if you smoke because your automatically impaired.

[jbuttell]

So we get all of the shitty "liberal" things to pass and then Prop 19 fails? Everybody is too "conservative" to legalize pot? WTFFFFFFFF???

I've only lived in this state for less than a year and I can't stand it.

I realize you know this, but i cant help but repeat it. Many people continue to mistake modern liberals as being for liberty, when they are often the greatest violators of it. Kinda like the myth that republicans are all for war, all the time, while the dems are the party of peace.

[dannno]

YouTube - Katy Perry - California Gurls ft. Snoop (Lyric Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVJTt-Gfx8)

[dannno]

Yes and the section in the prop that makes it almost impossible for an employer to fire someone that shows up at work stoned. A judge ruled that even with a med MJ permitt employers could still fire someone that showed up at work stoned. Aparently the writers of Prop 19 were trying to close that loophole and make the employer have to prove impairment. It did 19 in for me.

Although I agree with you philosophically I don't know why this is such a huge concern. If you have a stoner working for you who is a great employee and doesn't make any mistakes, then why fire them? You can still fire them if they're under performing, late to work, etc, whether this is due to their consumption of cannabis or not.

[Anti Federalist]

Although I agree with you philosophically I don't know why this is such a huge concern.

Because some folks turn a blind eye to tyranny, as long as it's committed in the name of the corporation.

The corporations could have us all marching off to mandatory church services every Sunday, and it would be dismissed as "property rights".

Yeah, you are the property. It's called "human resources" and not "personnel" or "hiring" anymore, for a reason

Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny.

[silentshout]

I realize you know this, but i cant help but repeat it. Many people continue to mistake modern liberals as being for liberty, when they are often the greatest violators of it. Kinda like the myth that republicans are all for war, all the time, while the dems are the party of peace.

Agreed. Also, don't listen to polls. Re prop 19, this poll was landline only and only takes into account likely voters. The real poll is tomorrow. I don't know too many people irl against 19. And they span all age groups, most of whom do not partake either.

[silentshout]

Although I agree with you philosophically I don't know why this is such a huge concern. If you have a stoner working for you who is a great employee and doesn't make any mistakes, then why fire them? You can still fire them if they're under performing, late to work, etc, whether this is due to their consumption of cannabis or not.

^^^

Completely agree. I don't get why people don't see this.

[dannno]

Because some folks turn a blind eye to tyranny, as long as it's committed in the name of the corporation.

The corporations could have us all marching off to mandatory church services every Sunday, and it would be dismissed as "property rights".

Yeah, you are the property. It's called "human resources" and not "personnel" or "hiring" anymore, for a reason

Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny.

Well I agree, but the current tyranny on stoners is much worse than the proposed tyranny on employers who are already operating under those laws. In fact, most corporations don't even fire people for medical marijuana currently because they are afraid they are going to get sued and there isn't any legal language that states this... it is already presumed.. if you fire somebody for being in ANY specific group you get sued.. it's simply presumed that you have to demonstrate the employee deserves to be fired for job-related reasons, not because of some group they belong to. It goes for all of them.. The exception being that the position requires drug tests for safety such as heavy equipment operators, etc, and those are already exempted from the bill. So the fact that they put it in words is meaningless, I guess is my point.

[moostraks]

Because some folks turn a blind eye to tyranny, as long as it's committed in the name of the corporation.

The corporations could have us all marching off to mandatory church services every Sunday, and it would be dismissed as "property rights".

Yeah, you are the property. It's called "human resources" and not "personnel" or "hiring" anymore, for a reason

Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny.

lol...You are spot on here...

[Promontorium]

Prop 19 was written poorly, but that's not why it's failing. The morons who smoke weed here don't want things to change, and the morons who fear weed here take comfort in their government.

[GreenLP]

A judge ruled that even with a med MJ permitt employers could still fire someone that showed up at work stoned. Aparently the writers of Prop 19 were trying to close that loophole and make the employer have to prove impairment. It did 19 in for me.
Why would you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

[klamath]

Although I agree with you philosophically I don't know why this is such a huge concern. If you have a stoner working for you who is a great employee and doesn't make any mistakes, then why fire them? You can still fire them if they're under performing, late to work, etc, whether this is due to their consumption of cannabis or not.
Because even if this employee is highly effected with MJ it gives employee a huge government law to scream discrimination if the employer fires him. It has nothing to do with corporations it has to do with the government controlling the very basics of free trade from the mom and pop stores to the land lord tenent agreements.

[klamath]

Why would you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Because I want them to go back and rewrite the law so that it just gives the people the right to do as they please with their own bodies and NOT try and give themselves special rights over every other person in the state. This prop will be back and I want them to know one of the reasons it failed so they get it right the next time.

[dannno]

Prop 19 was written poorly, but that's not why it's failing. The morons who smoke weed here don't want things to change, and the morons who fear weed here take comfort in their government.

:confused:

http://www.independent.com/news/2010/nov/01/marijuana-legalization-supporters-not-afraid-talk/

[South Park Fan]

I'm not giving up hope yet. The polls showed that Prop 8 was supposed to fail too, and it passed due to the privacy of the voting booth. Although Prop 19 probably won't get the benefit of high minority turnout that Prop 8 did.

[GreenLP]

Because I want them to go back and rewrite the law so that it just gives the people the right to do as they please with their own bodies and NOT try and give themselves special rights over every other person in the state. This prop will be back and I want them to know one of the reasons it failed so they get it right the next time.
You think that will be easier and faster rather than passing this existing prop that just might pass and able to reap the benefits of cannabis not being criminalized and then having the legislature amending the small parts that bother you afterward?

[dannno]

I can just picture somebody getting fired just cause their boss didn't like them and then going out and smoking a joint for their first time then filing a lawsuit :D

It's like you can suddenly just join one of these "minority groups" by choice now, well at least you can join one that doesn't involved weird sex stuff :D

You know, klamath, having Prop 19 pass with this particular amendment you so despise might, just MIGHT be a good way to show people the hypocrisy of the entire system that operates on this premise..

[GreenLP]

Not saying I necessarily support that clause of prop 19 about employers not being able to fire employees who test positive for pot, or whatever that clause is about, but how do you rectify that pot stays in your system longer than, say, alcohol? If I smoked a joint a 2 weeks ago and today my work did a surprise piss test, I'd be screwed because how can I prove I'm not currently stoned, or wasn't stoned just before showing up to work today, but that I smoked 2 weeks ago?

[squarepusher]

I wasn't aware of that part. Legalizing pot shouldn't be used to further restrict employers rights. I am baffled by the "Don't tax pot" crowd though. Maybe it's different in California, but where I live everything you buy retail is taxed. If I buy $1 worth of lettuce, 9 cents goes to state and local government. Why should pot be exempt? And from what I understand pot is easy to grow. If your against being taxed, grow your own.

Anyway, I wonder what would happen if someone tried a "legalize hemp" initiative? Would it pass once people realized you can't even get high off of hemp? Or would it fail because stoners wouldn't care because you can't get high off of hemp?

right now pot is taxed, at nearly 10%, and generates tons of revenues for California. This is something that pro-19'ers dont talk about much. Prop 19 is saying like, they would allowing taxing $600 per square foot per year on grow spaces. (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/08/29/99816/california-town-wants-to-tax-marijuana.html) Right now, under medical law this is protected from occurance.

[Maximus]

"a plan for congressional districts to be drawn by a citizen commission rather than lawmakers."

California is so gerrymandered that this is a good thing

[oyarde]

"a plan for congressional districts to be drawn by a citizen commission rather than lawmakers."

California is so gerrymandered that this is a good thing

gerrymandered stuff is bad and it exists many places .

[dannno]

Not saying I necessarily support that clause of prop 19 about employers not being able to fire employees who test positive for pot, or whatever that clause is about, but how do you rectify that pot stays in your system longer than, say, alcohol? If I smoked a joint a 2 weeks ago and today my work did a surprise piss test, I'd be screwed because how can I prove I'm not currently stoned, or wasn't stoned just before showing up to work today, but that I smoked 2 weeks ago?

Well the idea is that an employer should be allowed to fire you for whatever they want. If they are firing people who smoke cannabis for the simple fact that they smoke cannabis rather than based on their job performance, then they are making poor employer decisions and will likely be removed from the market by a competing employer who retains employees based on their job performance.

[Maximus]

gerrymandered stuff is bad and it exists many places .

Yeah but in California it's beyond awful, none of the legislative districts are competitive

[oyarde]

Yeah but in California it's beyond awful, none of the legislative districts are competitive

I know , but as an example , I am in the midwest and my hometown of approx. 45,000 is sliced in half .

[Brian4Liberty]

Because some folks turn a blind eye to tyranny, as long as it's committed in the name of the corporation.

The corporations could have us all marching off to mandatory church services every Sunday, and it would be dismissed as "property rights".

Yeah, you are the property. It's called "human resources" and not "personnel" or "hiring" anymore, for a reason

Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny.

+rep

[Humanae Libertas]

"a plan for congressional districts to be drawn by a citizen commission rather than lawmakers."

California is so gerrymandered that this is a good thing

Not when it's taxpayer funded - an unelected board deciding/redistricting without voting is a bad idea. Most likely nothing will change - we'll see more Democratic-big-government-Boxer types, and splitting districts for more Democratic votes; funny that Californians think fighting bureaucracy with more is the answer, maybe California does deserve to collapse.

So the way things are going....Californians want:

- The drug war to continue; arresting people for possessing a natural plant

- Unelected Democrats redistricting to get more Democrats in the State Legislature

- A new tax on vehicles

- Let the state government to continue stealing local state funds to fund their tyranny

- Continue Global Warming scam Environmental regulation

- Stealing more taxpayer dollars from businesses cuz of "them evil Corporations" are greedy

- Make it easier for the Democrats, who hold a majority in both the Assembly & Senate, to pass an unbalanced budget.