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Carson
10-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Would it be possible to effect the results of an election with the manipulation of mail in ballots?

Say a party sends out applications to the opposition party to encourage them to apply for mail in ballots. Could the count then be manipulated by setting the mail in ballots aside and abuse a rule that allows you to count the ballots up to thirty days after election night?

I've seen many elections decided long before all of the ballots are counted.

Carson
11-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Are they being counted before the candidates concede?

Are the being counted?

Carson
11-05-2010, 06:14 AM
This morning on the news, one point five million ballots still uncounted.


Election results were reported days ago.

Carson
11-08-2010, 07:41 PM
I just checked to see how they are doing on counting the mail in votes.

It looks like they haven't even started in Alameda county.


This link goes to a PDF file.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/

libertythor
11-08-2010, 08:22 PM
Some states like California and Washington make it way too easy to vote by mail, and they even have a permanent mail voter option. All states should require an individual absentee ballot request form that asks for justification.

nate895
11-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Some states like California and Washington make it way too easy to vote by mail, and they even have a permanent mail voter option. All states should require an individual absentee ballot request form that asks for justification.

Washington does elections exclusively via mail-in.

libertythor
11-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Washington does elections exclusively via mail-in.

That opens it up to all sorts of fraud. There isn't any control over proving that a given individual requested a ballot and who actually filled it out. Absentee ballots exist for those who are bed ridden, go on vacation, or are sent away on a business trip. What excuse was there before for such low participation? Hell, employers must give two hours on a full time shift to go vote.

If you make voting too easy, you make it easier for the party machines to pull off shenanigans! Imagine if Chicago were to switch to the mail-in only system! :eek:

nate895
11-08-2010, 08:37 PM
That opens it up to all sorts of fraud. There isn't any control over proving that a given individual requested a ballot and who actually filled it out. Absentee ballots exist for those who are bed ridden, go on vacation, or are sent away on a business trip. What excuse was there before for such low participation? Hell, employers must give two hours on a full time shift to go vote.

If you make voting too easy, you make it easier for the party machines to pull off shenanigans! Imagine if Chicago were to switch to the mail-in only system! :eek:

In Washington, it is generally a legitimate election, but whenever it's even a close race, then King County pulls off some stunt whereby thousands of illegitimate votes are counted, and no court will rule that they were.

nobody's_hero
11-08-2010, 08:48 PM
I started a similar thread a while back and it got buried.

But yes, I think mail-in ballots have a lot of potential for abuse.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=267033

libertythor
11-08-2010, 08:51 PM
In Washington, it is generally a legitimate election, but whenever it's even a close race, then King County pulls off some stunt whereby thousands of illegitimate votes are counted, and no court will rule that they were.

That is why I prefer election day precincts with people from various sides at each location watching the voting and observing as it is sealed up and sent off to the county election central. Observers at election central can then verify that those boxes are arriving in a timely fashion.

oyarde
11-08-2010, 08:52 PM
That is why I prefer election day precincts with people from various sides at each location watching the voting and observing as it is sealed up and sent off to the county election central. Observers at election central can then verify that those boxes are arriving in a timely fashion.

Agreed .

Brian4Liberty
11-08-2010, 08:56 PM
Would it be possible to effect the results of an election with the manipulation of mail in ballots?

Say a party sends out applications to the opposition party to encourage them to apply for mail in ballots. Could the count then be manipulated by setting the mail in ballots aside and abuse a rule that allows you to count the ballots up to thirty days after election night?

I've seen many elections decided long before all of the ballots are counted.

Absolutely. In California, they don't count the mail-in or absentee ballots until after election day. Most candidates concede the night of the election, which then makes counting all of those ballots unnecessary.

I always vote in person. Use an absentee ballot, and you very well may never get counted. And yes, they can manipulate the results by taking the absentee ballots from certain areas and counting them first or last. "100% Precincts Reporting" is meaningless when there are 200,000 ballots still left to count.

libertythor
11-08-2010, 08:59 PM
Absolutely. In California, they don't count the mail-in or absentee ballots until after election day. Most candidates concede the night of the election, which then makes counting all of those ballots unnecessary.

I always vote in person. Use an absentee ballot, and you very well may never get counted. And yes, they can manipulate the results by taking the absentee ballots from certain areas and counting them first or last. "100% Precincts Reporting" is meaningless when there are 200,000 ballots still left to count.


I have heard that this goes on in many counties, but in San Diego they just take a week to count them all. A candidate should only concede when the margin of defeat is greater than the number of mail-in votes left to count.

The Alaska senate race is a prime example! Lisa Murkowski's 7% lead could get cut down to 2% when the military and other absentee ballots get counted this week, and then it would be a matter of throwing out all of the "Lisa M.s" and "L. Merkewskys".

Brian4Liberty
11-09-2010, 10:36 AM
The Alaska senate race is a prime example! Lisa Murkowski's 7% lead could get cut down to 2% when the military and other absentee ballots get counted this week, and then it would be a matter of throwing out all of the "Lisa M.s" and "L. Merkewskys".

The rumor is that they counted all write-ins as Murkowski, and need to make a second pass to remove those that are obviously not her. So all of the people who write their own name in, or a celebrity, they were all counted as Murkowski. "Mickey Mouse" may still be close enough to get counted for Murkowski. :rolleyes:

Carson
11-09-2010, 06:21 PM
I'm not against a mail in ballot. It is good way to take your time and study and get the thing the way you want. I've done it for years. I've sent them in plenty early at times when they could have started counting early.

I bet I haven't had a vote that was counted before all of the back slapping and congratulations and the losing candidates conceding the race five minutes after the polls close.

Today I took another look at the PDF file they have showing the tallying of the mail-in and provisional ballots. They are just setting there for my county it looks like.


To "Unprocessed Ballots Report"

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/



So it seems apparent if you make it easy to apply for mail in ballots and then only send out applications to every one of the opposition voters, you've got the election in the bag!


I remember getting my application right after the Democrats took over the polls.


P.S. In Alameda county the governors race (http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/governor/county/all/) shows:


Alameda

100.0% ( 1,050 of 1,050 ) precincts partially or fully reporting as of November 8, 2010, 9:14 a.m.


Candidate-----------------------Votes-------------Percent

Jerry Brown (Dem)----------252,401--------------73.3%
Meg Whitman (Rep)----------80,125--------------23.3%
Chelene Nightingale (AI)----- 2,689--------------- 0.7%
Laura Wells (Grn)---------------4,459 ---------------1.3%
Dale F. Ogden (Lib)-------------2,695 ---------------0.8%
Carlos Alvarez (P&F)------------2,343--------------- 0.6%


For Alameda county it shows:

Vote by mail 90,000 Provisionals 32,000 Estimated total left to count 122,000.

I can't help but wonder if some of the counties that have been counted have voted predominately one party or the other.

libertythor
11-09-2010, 06:23 PM
Me neither, but I believe that they should be requested each time by mailing or dropping off a form. A lot of illegals are able to vote by automatically registering as a permanent mail-in voter, and this way they don't have to show their ID the first time.


I'm not against a mail in ballot. It is good way to take your time and study and get the thing the way you want. I've done it for years. I've sent them in plenty early at times when they could have started counting early.

I bet I haven't had a vote that was counted before all of the back slapping and congratulations and the losing candidates conceding the race five minutes after the polls close.
Today I took another look at the PDF file they have showing the tallying of the mail-in and provisional ballots. They are just setting there for my county it looks like.


To "Unprocessed Ballots Report"

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/vote-by-mail/



So it seems apparent if you make it easy to apply for mail in ballots and then only send out applications to every one of the opposition voters, you've got the election in the bag!


I remember getting my application right after the Democrats took over the polls.