Do I have sympathy for CA. NOT!

[klamath]

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- A new poll shows a ballot initiative that would suspend California's greenhouse gas emissions law losing support.

A University of Southern California-Los Angeles Times poll released Monday shows 48 percent of likely voters oppose Proposition 23, compared to 32 percent who support it. Nearly one in five voters remains undecided.

Last month, the same poll showed 40 percent of likely voters favored the initiative with 38 percent opposed.

The Nov. 2 ballot initiative would delay greenhouse gas regulations until California's unemployment rate, now at 12.4 percent, falls to 5.5 percent and stays there for a year. It is being funded by out-of-state oil companies.

The poll surveyed 922 likely voters by telephone from Oct. 13 to Oct. 20 and has a sampling error margin of 3.2 percentage points.




http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_CALIF_CLIMATE_LAW_POLL_CAOL-?SITE=CARED&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[roho76]

Suspension based on employment numbers? Sounds like people know the state forcing citizens and businesses to "Go Green" is a jobs killer.

[Jandrsn21]

Let Californians kill their economy, no sweat off my back. Soon these idiots will learn, they will be broke homeless and starving, then they might want to listen. The problem is, most will still think they are all saving the environment and sleep out of their cars well knowing the polar bears are thriving, while their economy goes into ruins. You couldn't pay me to move to California, which is so sad because it is a beautiful state. :(

[Meatwasp]

Let Californians kill their economy, no sweat off my back. Soon these idiots will learn, they will be broke homeless and starving, then they might want to listen. The problem is, most will still think they are all saving the environment and sleep out of their cars well knowing the polar bears are thriving, while their economy goes into ruins. You couldn't pay me to move to California, which is so sad because it is a beautiful state. :(
I live in Ca. but I wish those eastern people never would have come in. They changed the whole scene here.

[Fredom101]

"Californians" aren't kililng their economy, the politicians are.
How can you blame the people? Everyone knows the people in government are morons and will do anything to hurt the economy.

I still contend that California is the most libertarian state in the nation- BECAUSE it has one of the most socialist governments. People know this and tend more to ignore the state, because it is such a clusterfuck. With other states, the state gov is not as intrusive and thus businesspeople pay more attention to it.

Let's please not forget that government does NOT equal the people!!

[LibertyBrews]

One of the most successful states in the 60-80's have turned to become the biggest dump in the northern hemisphere. A job well done by liberal peabrains and their sheep. If California slid into the sea tomorrow, i wouldn't shed a tear.

[Fredom101]

One of the most successful states in the 60-80's have turned to become the biggest dump in the northern hemisphere. A job well done by liberal peabrains and their sheep. If California slid into the sea tomorrow, i wouldn't shed a tear.

I completely disagree with your attitude regarding CA and feel that you have no empathy for people living there. Again, the people are not their government!

[Jandrsn21]

They are voting FOR cap and trade openly! Granted they are being deceived, but they should be more responsible. I was just referring to the article only, I am not sure what the other aspects are. They are voting to raise their energy costs in the face of the worst depression we have seen. Idiots! I don't feel sorry for them.

[klamath]

One of the most successful states in the 60-80's have turned to become the biggest dump in the northern hemisphere. A job well done by liberal peabrains and their sheep. If California slid into the sea tomorrow, i wouldn't shed a tear.
Actually we would be a pretty good state if all that lays West of the San Andreas fault would sink into the ocean. That would take out San diego, LA, San Francisco and Marin county:D

[teamrican1]

They are voting FOR cap and trade openly! Granted they are being deceived, but they should be more responsible. I was just referring to the article only, I am not sure what the other aspects are. They are voting to raise their energy costs in the face of the worst depression we have seen. Idiots! I don't feel sorry for them.

Who is "they" though? It's not like the people of California who built that state when it was still great suddenly got stupid. The problem is a bunch of other people moved in and used the mechanism of democracy to oppress the original settlers.

[Fredom101]

They are voting FOR cap and trade openly! Granted they are being deceived, but they should be more responsible. I was just referring to the article only, I am not sure what the other aspects are. They are voting to raise their energy costs in the face of the worst depression we have seen. Idiots! I don't feel sorry for them.

Do you know how many californians actually vote? 25 maybe 30%? This is NOT the majority, nor does it represent what people want. Most would be happy to see the capital disappear into oblivion and be able to just live their lives.

[klamath]

"Californians" aren't kililng their economy, the politicians are.
How can you blame the people? Everyone knows the people in government are morons and will do anything to hurt the economy.

I still contend that California is the most libertarian state in the nation- BECAUSE it has one of the most socialist governments. People know this and tend more to ignore the state, because it is such a clusterfuck. With other states, the state gov is not as intrusive and thus businesspeople pay more attention to it.

Let's please not forget that government does NOT equal the people!!

I am a Californian and this is a chance to reverse one of the stupid laws the politicians passed. What are the people doing but keeping one of the most business restrictive laws on the books. The unemployment rate will keep going up.

[Fredom101]

Who is "they" though? It's not like the people of California who built that state when it was still great suddenly got stupid. The problem is a bunch of other people moved in and used the mechanism of democracy to oppress the original settlers.

I disagree. Most people just want to live their lives. What you explained proves that democracy simply does not work. The people of California would be far more prosperous if the state government did not exist at all!

[Fredom101]

I am a Californian and this is a chance to reverse one of the stupid laws the politicians passed. What are the people doing but keeping one of the most business restrictive laws on the books. The unemployment rate will keep going up.

But the entrepreneurs are what is driving business, not the state. The state simply needs to disappear. Anything else is not a solution- because it leaves everything wide open for control by bureaucrats. What is wrong with letting businesspeople run their own businesses?

[teamrican1]

I disagree. Most people just want to live their lives. What you explained proves that democracy simply does not work. The people of California would be far more prosperous if the state government did not exist at all!

Of course they would! It think that's the most important thing we have to remember in the freedom movement. Our goal is not to simply "change" government, but to tear it down. Until government is so small and powerless that it literally doesn't matter who wins elections or whether elections are even held, we remain slaves to the tyranny of democracy.

[klamath]

But the entrepreneurs are what is driving business, not the state. The state simply needs to disappear. Anything else is not a solution- because it leaves everything wide open for control by bureaucrats. What is wrong with letting businesspeople run their own businesses?

Yes it is the entrepreneurs and business that drive the state. This is a chance to take down some of the power of the state and the voters are choosing to keep the state control of business intact!

[Jandrsn21]

Do you know how many californians actually vote? 25 maybe 30%? This is NOT the majority, nor does it represent what people want. Most would be happy to see the capital disappear into oblivion and be able to just live their lives.

I don't think it is the majority and I don't mean to paint everyone in California with a broad brush. I have friends in California and have been there many times. It is a beautiful state with many great people. If I had to live there, lol, was forced to, I would get off the grid asap! Also start finding ways to get off of oil for your car. Your energy costs rising plus monetary inflation will drive many to bankruptcy!

[Fredom101]

Of course they would! It think that's the most important thing we have to remember in the freedom movement. Our goal is not to simply "change" government, but to tear it down. Until government is so small and powerless that it literally doesn't matter who wins elections or whether elections are even held, we remain slaves to the tyranny of democracy.

Yes, I would further that and say until government is wiped off the face of the map, we remain slaves to the tyranny of democracy. :D

[libertybrewcity]

"Californians" aren't kililng their economy, the politicians are.
How can you blame the people? Everyone knows the people in government are morons and will do anything to hurt the economy.

I still contend that California is the most libertarian state in the nation- BECAUSE it has one of the most socialist governments. People know this and tend more to ignore the state, because it is such a clusterfuck. With other states, the state gov is not as intrusive and thus businesspeople pay more attention to it.

Let's please not forget that government does NOT equal the people!!

The people are killing their economy because they continuously elect these idiots.

The people very well know exactly what they are getting, and they LOVE it.

How can California be one of the most libertarian states in the nation because it has one of the most socialist governments? That makes no sense. The reason California is so messed up is BECAUSE they anti-libertarian. Just because they generally are against war and pro-marijuana does not make them libertarian.

[Fredom101]

Yes it is the entrepreneurs and business that drive the state. This is a chance to take down some of the power of the state and the voters are choosing to keep the state control of business intact!

Again, the voters are supporting statism. Even if they are the majority (which they are clearly not), you can't really blame "California" on any of this- it's simply the government that is wrecking the state.

[Fredom101]

The people are killing their economy because they continuously elect these idiots.

The people very well know exactly what they are getting, and they LOVE it.

How can California be one of the most libertarian states in the nation because it has one of the most socialist governments? That makes no sense. The reason California is so messed up is BECAUSE they anti-libertarian. Just because they generally are against war and pro-marijuana does not make them libertarian.

Again, how many people vote in CA elections? 25%? 30% maybe? How can you collectivize the entire state and say everyone loves the government? This is nuts. I'm a CA resident and DO NOT VOTE, because I do not agree with statism. Most small businesspeople do not concern themselves with politics, unless it's to get around the crazy laws and regulations in order to make money.

[Deinonychus]

http://downsizeca.org/ (http://downsizeca.org/)

Thoughts?

[Meatwasp]

Again, how many people vote in CA elections? 25%? 30% maybe? How can you collectivize the entire state and say everyone loves the government? This is nuts. I'm a CA resident and DO NOT VOTE, because I do not agree with statism. Most small businesspeople do not concern themselves with politics, unless it's to get around the crazy laws and regulations in order to make money.

Wow you don't vote? Than you have no say about California and it's ills.

[klamath]

Again, how many people vote in CA elections? 25%? 30% maybe? How can you collectivize the entire state and say everyone loves the government? This is nuts. I'm a CA resident and DO NOT VOTE, because I do not agree with statism. Most small businesspeople do not concern themselves with politics, unless it's to get around the crazy laws and regulations in order to make money.

Again I have no sympathy for the Californians. In reality if that other 70 to 75% voted we would really be F***** because they are the ones stupid enough to let 25% of the electorate dictate their lives.

[Brian4Liberty]

http://downsizeca.org/ (http://downsizeca.org/)

Thoughts?

Even better, break California into five States.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Let's please not forget that government does NOT equal the people!!

YouTube - George Carlin Doesn't vote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk)

If you have selfish ignorant citizens, you are going to have selfish ignorant leaders. -George Carlin

[silentshout]

Well, this bill is being funded by oil companies in Texas, which is why many people here don't like it.

[klamath]

Well, this bill is being funded by oil companies in Texas, which is why many people here don't like it.
Which is really stupid. The people of CA have never seen a environmental proposition that imposes regs and spends money that they didn't like. The bills have come due and they are still thinking they can have their green and redwood hottubs as well.

[Fredom101]

Wow you don't vote? Than you have no say about California and it's ills.

Quite the contrary. I don't vote because I don't support the system.
If you do vote for the madness, you have no right to complain.

[Fredom101]

Again I have no sympathy for the Californians. In reality if that other 70 to 75% voted we would really be F***** because they are the ones stupid enough to let 25% of the electorate dictate their lives.

Why not just get rid of government? THEY are the ones causing the problem.

[messana]

They had a twitter style discussion for Governor Schwarzenegger. People asked him questions like working with movies and body building. Lame.

http://www.onebakersfield.com/2010/10/governor-schwarzenegger-holds-tweetcast/

[RonPaulCult]

Well, this bill is being funded by oil companies in Texas, which is why many people here don't like it.

Exactly. People should consider this. The oil companies are funding this not because they care about jobs and the economy. They want the right to pollute because they make tons of money from it. They are using the economy and jobs as an excuse to line their pockets.

Now I'm actually going to vote WITH the oil companies because I'm a libertarian and I believe in freedom, and because I think we do need jobs and the bill is a jobs killer BUT....

It's hard for even ME to vote that way when I know the campaign has been bought and paid for by giant evil oil companies. I have sympathy for people voting the other way.

[Maximus]

If this weren't bankrolled by the oil companies it would be passing.

People are that dumb. I'd be interested in seeing the split in how the female demographic is voting on this.

This is the same state that voted for "free range chickens" last election

[dannno]

It's hard for even ME to vote that way when I know the campaign has been bought and paid for by giant evil oil companies. I have sympathy for people voting the other way.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm positive they funded it just so it wouldn't pass. As soon as you tell people that something is funded by the big corporations in CA they won't vote for it.. The truth is the corporations don't want it to pass because that will increase the cost of energy, and that, imo is the reason why they funded it.. so it wouldn't pass.. They know they are the bad guys, they like being the bad guys so they can get people to vote for more government power and control because that always helps the biggest corporations thrive while the little ones die.

Mindfuck, eh?

Vote libertarian, it is a myth that big corporations like free markets, the big corporations love propagating that myth. That is clearly what is happening here.

[teacherone]

Actually we would be a pretty good state if all that lays West of the San Andreas fault would sink into the ocean. That would take out San diego, LA, San Francisco and Marin county:D

yay stockton!!!

[RonPaulCult]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm positive they funded it just so it wouldn't pass. As soon as you tell people that something is funded by the big corporations in CA they won't vote for it.. The truth is the corporations don't want it to pass because that will increase the cost of energy, and that, imo is the reason why they funded it.. so it wouldn't pass.. They know they are the bad guys, they like being the bad guys so they can get people to vote for more government power and control because that always helps the biggest corporations thrive while the little ones die.

Mindfuck, eh?

Vote libertarian, it is a myth that big corporations like free markets, the big corporations love propagating that myth. That is clearly what is happening here.

Awesome post. You may be on to something there.

[klamath]

Quite the contrary. I don't vote because I don't support the system.
If you do vote for the madness, you have no right to complain.
And you are breaking the rules the forum owners of this site set up- attempting to work through the democratic process. Like a normal anarchist you are disproving your whole system because you can't even live by the concept of voluntarily respecting private property and the wishes of the owners. Anyone of you could pay for server space and set up a site for volunteerists. It is people like this that create the need for governments because they can't voluntarily live and let live and peacefully coexist on the internet- the closest thing to anarchy ever.

[AGRP]

California:

The first state to become dependent on the government for every need.

Isn't this exactly what the public school system brainwashed them into wanting?

[dannno]

Quite the contrary. I don't vote because I don't support the system.
If you do vote for the madness, you have no right to complain.

If you don't vote you ARE supporting the system.

You don't have to vote for specific individuals who you think will ultimately grow government in one form or another, that's your choice, but if you aren't in there voting against propositions that will tax you more, and voting for propositions that give you more freedom, then all you are doing is supporting them.

[Fredom101]

And you are breaking the rules the forum owners of this site set up- attempting to work through the democratic process. Like a normal anarchist you are disproving your whole system because you can't even live by the concept of voluntarily respecting private property and the wishes of the owners. Anyone of you could pay for server space and set up a site for volunteerists. It is people like this that create the need for governments because they can't voluntarily live and let live and peacefully coexist on the internet- the closest thing to anarchy ever.

Dude, I'm not breaking any rules.
I'm expressing my opinion here just like you are with yours.

I choose not to vote in elections because it is giving support to the system as a whole. Statism has already failed miserably, but you are choosing to support it.

If people want to use the political system to get the word out about ending the fed, ending the income tax, legalizing drugs, etc., I'm all for it, but voting to decrease the size and scope of gov't is a failed strategy, it has nothing to do with breaking any forum rules.

[Meatwasp]

Dude, I'm not breaking any rules.
I'm expressing my opinion here just like you are with yours.

I choose not to vote in elections because it is giving support to the system as a whole. Statism has already failed miserably, but you are choosing to support it.

If people want to use the political system to get the word out about ending the fed, ending the income tax, legalizing drugs, etc., I'm all for it, but voting to decrease the size and scope of gov't is a failed strategy, it has nothing to do with breaking any forum rules.

Dude would you vote for Ron Paul if he ran??

[QueenB4Liberty]

Dude, I'm not breaking any rules.
I'm expressing my opinion here just like you are with yours.

I choose not to vote in elections because it is giving support to the system as a whole. Statism has already failed miserably, but you are choosing to support it.

If people want to use the political system to get the word out about ending the fed, ending the income tax, legalizing drugs, etc., I'm all for it, but voting to decrease the size and scope of gov't is a failed strategy, it has nothing to do with breaking any forum rules.

I understand where you're coming from, not wanting to vote because you think it supports the system. But there aren't enough people that believe that. Right now if you don't vote, it's because you are uneducated/apathetic/etc. And the people make up the government, so yes the people are the government. The system is rigged, but it's all about voting. The chances are high that nothing's going to change anyway by voting, but the only other option for change is violence (not advocating it). You said California's government needs to go away, well there are only two ways that is possible, by the ballot or violence, no? As long as the majority is happy with the way things are, things won't change. California is a shithole and the majority of its residents seem to be fine with that. They just move and leech off other areas of the country.

I don't really like voting for politicians myself (although I'll vote for Ron) but I will vote for propositions like bond issues where taxes would be raised. I don't think that's a bad decision.

[Humanae Libertas]

In CA, if you want a prop to pass or fail, just mention corporations in your ads - you'll get it done.

[Meatwasp]

California is a shithole and the majority of its residents seem to be fine with that. They just move and leech off other areas of the country.
PLEASE quit painting us all with a broad brush. It is mostly the big cities that vote for the goodies, like Los Angeles or Sacto, and San Fransisco.
Most of them are imports from other countries and other states.

[RonPaulwillWin]

I hope all you haters suffer greatly when California gets the largest bailout in WORLD HISTORY

[QueenB4Liberty]

California is a shithole and the majority of its residents seem to be fine with that. They just move and leech off other areas of the country.
PLEASE quit painting us all with a broad brush. It is mostly the big cities that vote for the goodies, like Los Angeles or Sacto, and San Fransisco.
Most of them are imports from other countries and other states.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to paint everyone the same. I know it's the major cities that want the goodies.

[Pete Kay]

There's a general trend that happens all over the nation. Liberals destroy an area with their failed policies, then run to a more conservative area, cry about how it's mot progressive enough, then slowly turn that conservative area into a liberal one and start the cycle all over again.

This is going on in my city, where libs from California have come in, gotten into office and immediately raised taxes for their pet projects causing businesses to shutter. They're so damned stupid that the enacted a restaurant tax because they claimed that people from outside the city were coming in, enjoying our restaurants and not contributing to the tax base. WTF? Yes, let's be hostile to the consumers that drive the economy.

[Meatwasp]

There's a general trend that happens all over the nation. Liberals destroy an area with their failed policies, then run to a more conservative area, cry about how it's mot progressive enough, then slowly turn that conservative area into a liberal one and start the cycle all over again.

This is going on in my city, where libs from California have come in, gotten into office and immediately raised taxes for their pet projects causing businesses to shutter. They're so damned stupid that the enacted a restaurant tax because they claimed that people from outside the city were coming in, enjoying our restaurants and not contributing to the tax base. WTF? Yes, let's be hostile to the consumers that drive the economy.

I couldn't have said it better. How right you are.