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View Full Version : 2012 thought: Having noticed the current trends, we should focus on neo-cons



StateofTrance
10-23-2010, 04:08 PM
We will not win progressives by highlighting Ron's stance on war, drugs etc.

But we will win by highlighting what a true conservatism is all about to neo-cons, tear partiers etc.

Progressives look at Ron and think they agree with him on War but that's it! They will STILL vote their own people over Ron.

So my friends, stop wasting your time converting your "liberal" friends. Spend more time and talk to neo-cons.
FrankRep
10-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Neocons are liberal.



A neoconservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality.

--Irving Kristol (Neocon Godfather)


Defining Terms: What is a Neoconservative (Neocon)?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=257106

Ron Paul Calls Out Neoconservatives By Name
YouTube - Ron Paul Calls Out Neoconservatives By Name (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9TCC14akXk&feature=player_embedded)
StateofTrance
10-23-2010, 04:17 PM
To me, anyone who's not a Ron Paul supporter is a god damn neo-con.
Brian4Liberty
10-23-2010, 04:18 PM
Neocons are liberal.


I believe he is talking about "neo-cons" that have been brainwashed into certain positions, yet are not truly neo-conservatives. There are many former "neo-cons" in the Ron Paul ranks...
FrankRep
10-23-2010, 04:18 PM
To me, anyone who's not a Ron Paul supporter is a god damn neo-con.
That's silly.

:rolleyes:
Brett85
10-23-2010, 04:27 PM
During most of the Bush years I was a pretty hard core neocon who supported Bush and the Iraq War. Even before I found out about Ron Paul I finally came to my senses regarding the Iraq War and foreign policy in general. I finally realized that the Iraq War was simply a nation building campaign that had no clear objective and would never end. I realized that it was bankrupting our country and had nothing to do with limited government. Naturally, having changed my views I ended up voting for the traditional conservative in the GOP primary, Ron Paul. I think that other conservatives like myself can be convinced that they should support a non interventionalist foreign policy by focusing on the cost issue and the fact that an interventionalist foreign policy is actually big government.
Sola_Fide
10-23-2010, 04:28 PM
As Frank pointed out, there are neo-cons on the Left and the Right. Necons are Statist, and both parties are full of Statists.

I do think that Republicans (in theory) should be easier to convert than Democrats. We have to remind Republicans what true Conservatism and Liberty is. It is all about education.
silentshout
10-23-2010, 04:29 PM
I think we should focus on both. I'm a former Democrat myself. While I don't agree with everything people say on here, I will still vote for Ron and liberty candidates from now on.
FrankRep
10-23-2010, 04:45 PM
During most of the Bush years I was a pretty hard core neocon who supported Bush and the Iraq War.

You were a Trotskyite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism) who believed in Permanent Revolution?
Wesker1982
10-23-2010, 04:47 PM
Is it easier to change a liberal's mind on the welfare state or a neocon's mind on war?

Its a close call. I have had an easier time convincing neocons that killing is wrong vs convincing liberals that "helping" the poor actually hurts them. It seems easier to explain why war is bad vs explaining the economical effects the welfare state has on the poor.

but yeah, focus on both imo
Brett85
10-23-2010, 04:50 PM
You were a Trotskyite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism) who believed in Permanent Revolution?

No, I was basically just someone who thought that in order to be patriotic you couldn't even question the wars and our foreign policy in general.
Brett85
10-23-2010, 04:51 PM
Is it easier to change a liberal's mind on the welfare state or a neocon's mind on war?

Its a close call. I have had an easier time convincing neocons that killing is wrong vs convincing liberals that "helping" the poor actually hurts them. It seems easier to explain why war is bad vs explaining the economical effects the welfare state has on the poor.

but yeah, focus on both imo

That's the wrong way to go about it. It's easier to convince neocons that we simply can't afford the foreign policy that we have right now. Bringing morality into it isn't going to convince any conservative.
ClayTrainor
10-23-2010, 04:54 PM
Focus on anyone who seems to have a curious and open mind. They are fairly equally distributed throughout all political spectrums, as far as I can tell.

If you talk to the socialist "left", you need to focus on things like how the free-market, and voting with your money is "real democracy".

If you talk to the war-mongering "right", you need to focus on things like the ridiculously high costs of these military interventions is just as damaging to the economy as any socialized program.
denison
10-23-2010, 04:59 PM
Is it easier to change a liberal's mind on the welfare state or a neocon's mind on war?



the eternal unanswered question.
FrankRep
10-23-2010, 05:06 PM
You were a Trotskyite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism) who believed in Permanent Revolution?


No, I was basically just someone who thought that in order to be patriotic you couldn't even question the wars and our foreign policy in general.

You were not a hardcore Neocon. You just had an unrealistic view on Foreign Policy by supporting interventionism.