Wikileaks Dumps 400k docs, Secret Deathtoll over 285,000 Iraqis

[libertybrewcity]

wikileaks.org

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikleaks-dumps-thousands-classified-military-documents/story?id=11949670

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/10/pentagon-ready-for-wikileaks-release-of-iraq-war-documents.html#tp

[libertybrewcity]

TORTURE:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/10/20101022202210771944.html

[pcosmar]

Typical of the Media.
They focus on the founder of Wikileaks (Character Assassination) rather than the information in the documents.
:(

[libertybrewcity]

NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/war-logs.html

[2young2vote]

"By disclosing such sensitive information, WikiLeaks continues to put at risk the lives of our troops, their coalition partners and those Iraqis and Afghans working with us."

That is from the ABC article. Are their lives not already in danger?

[libertybrewcity]

Details:

• US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished.

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

• More than 15,000 civilians died in previously unknown incidents. US and UK officials have insisted that no official record of civilian casualties exists but the logs record 66,081 non-combatant deaths out of a total of 109,000 fatalities.

The numerous reports of detainee abuse, often supported by medical evidence, describe prisoners shackled, blindfolded and hung by wrists or ankles, and subjected to whipping, punching, kicking or electric shocks. Six reports end with a detainee's apparent death.

As recently as December the Americans were passed a video apparently showing Iraqi army officers executing a prisoner in Tal Afar, northern Iraq. The log states: "The footage shows approximately 12 Iraqi army soldiers. Ten IA soldiers were talking to one another while two soldiers held the detainee. The detainee had his hands bound … The footage shows the IA soldiers moving the detainee into the street, pushing him to the ground, punching him and shooting him."

The report named at least one perpetrator and was passed to coalition forces. But the logs reveal that the coalition has a formal policy of ignoring such allegations. They record "no investigation is necessary" and simply pass reports to the same Iraqi units implicated in the violence. By contrast all allegations involving coalition forces are subject to formal inquiries. Some cases of alleged abuse by UK and US troops are also detailed in the logs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks


Specific document above in bold:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iraq/warlogs/BCD499A0-F0A3-2B1D-B27A2F1D750FE720

[oyarde]

"By disclosing such sensitive information, WikiLeaks continues to put at risk the lives of our troops, their coalition partners and those Iraqis and Afghans working with us."

That is from the ABC article. Are their lives not already in danger?

Yes , but I really hope no Iraqi citizens names are released . There will be another thing in this that many people were probably not aware of but will be now . That is the fact that the Iranians have been funneling arms and roadside bombs to Shiite militants in Iraq .

[Fozz]

This backlash against wikileaks is despicable. It is the US GOVERNMENT, not wikileaks, that is risking the lives of troops.

[pcosmar]

Yes , but I really hope no Iraqi citizens names are released . There will be another thing in this that many people were probably not aware of but will be now . That is the fact that the Iranians have been funneling arms and roadside bombs to Shiite militants in Iraq .
What about those guilty of war crimes?
Or what about the names of victims of torture and abuse?
How about the names of the dead? 109,000 that are documented.

:mad:

[pcosmar]

This backlash against wikileaks is despicable. It is the US GOVERNMENT, not wikileaks, that is risking the lives of troops.

Now, that is truth .

[oyarde]

What about those guilty of war crimes?
Or what about the names of victims of torture and abuse?
How about the names of the dead? 109,000 that are documented.

:mad:

You think anything good will come of it ?

[tangent4ronpaul]

From the NYT's article:


WikiLeaks has been under strong pressure from the United States and the governments of other countries but is also fraying internally, in part because of a decision to post many of the Afghan documents without removing the names of informants, putting their lives in danger. A profile of WikiLeaks’s contentious founder, Julian Assange, will appear in Sunday’s newspaper.

Which is why the NYT's is publishing and distributing these very same documents (for Afghanistan and Iraq) - RATINGS BABY! LET THE FEEDING FRENZY BEGIN and GIMME MY MARKET SHARE! :rolleyes:

-t

[pcosmar]

You think anything good will come of it ?

No.
But I can hope that Americans will rise up and say ENOUGH !

but I don't expect it.
:(

[oyarde]

No.
But I can hope that Americans will rise up and say ENOUGH !

but I don't expect it.
:(

I am not seeing it either .

[Reason]

YouTube - Wikileaks Iraq files, Al Jazeera coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DzETW3O32s)

[Anti Federalist]

They hate us for our freedoms.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Rage_face.png


Details:

• US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers whose conduct appears to be systematic and normally unpunished.

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.

• More than 15,000 civilians died in previously unknown incidents. US and UK officials have insisted that no official record of civilian casualties exists but the logs record 66,081 non-combatant deaths out of a total of 109,000 fatalities.

The numerous reports of detainee abuse, often supported by medical evidence, describe prisoners shackled, blindfolded and hung by wrists or ankles, and subjected to whipping, punching, kicking or electric shocks. Six reports end with a detainee's apparent death.

As recently as December the Americans were passed a video apparently showing Iraqi army officers executing a prisoner in Tal Afar, northern Iraq. The log states: "The footage shows approximately 12 Iraqi army soldiers. Ten IA soldiers were talking to one another while two soldiers held the detainee. The detainee had his hands bound … The footage shows the IA soldiers moving the detainee into the street, pushing him to the ground, punching him and shooting him."

The report named at least one perpetrator and was passed to coalition forces. But the logs reveal that the coalition has a formal policy of ignoring such allegations. They record "no investigation is necessary" and simply pass reports to the same Iraqi units implicated in the violence. By contrast all allegations involving coalition forces are subject to formal inquiries. Some cases of alleged abuse by UK and US troops are also detailed in the logs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks


Specific document above in bold:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/iraq/warlogs/BCD499A0-F0A3-2B1D-B27A2F1D750FE720

[TNforPaul45]

"By disclosing such sensitive information, WikiLeaks continues to put at risk the lives of our troops, their coalition partners and those Iraqis and Afghans working with us."

That is from the ABC article. Are their lives not already in danger?

Their lives are in danger from us being there, nothing more.

Edit: And from any oppressive governments that they may have installed to rule over them at any time, as well.

Oppressive governments there, oppressive governments here, there is a pattern here SOMEWHERE but my public school education just wont let me figure it ou- OH LOOK DANCING WITH THE STARS IS ON!!!!!

[tpreitzel]

• A US helicopter gunship involved in a notorious Baghdad incident had previously killed Iraqi insurgents after they tried to surrender.



Uh oh ... a rather messy pattern has developed with that particular crew (probably composed of the same personnel)

[oyarde]

Uh oh ... a rather messy pattern has developed with that particular crew (probably composed of the same personnel)

What was the other incident ?

[devil21]

What was the other incident ?

That first Collateral Murder video that Wikileaks released showing the chopper crew shooting at unarmed men and kids.

[oyarde]

That first Collateral Murder video that Wikileaks released showing the chopper crew shooting at unarmed men and kids.

I did not recall that being in Baghdad .

[HOLLYWOOD]

NOW... you know why Britain destroyed all their "WAR CRIMES" records.

Their Prime Minister and Secretary of Foreign Affairs should be on Trial and/or in Prison.

[devil21]

I did not recall that being in Baghdad .

Yep it was.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/04/wikileaks-video-collateral-murder-baghdad-july-12-2007-3/

[oyarde]

Yep it was.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/04/wikileaks-video-collateral-murder-baghdad-july-12-2007-3/

My memory is getting bad , thanks .

[devil21]

There's definitely some bombshells in this collection and it's only been looked at by the public for less than a day. Apparently Al Jazeera and other media outlets have had access to these files for many weeks already and coordinated their release along with Wikileaks.

A few bulletpoints Ive seen so far (assuming the chatter is accurate)
1. 66,000 Iraqi civilians killed on record as war casualties (naaa...they hate us for our freedom)
2. 109,000 total deaths, 286,000 total casualties (they will so hate us for our freedom)
3. Torture was not carried out by US troops but troops were directed by confidential order to ignore any and all cases of torture brought to their attention. Presumably much of this torture was directed, or at least allowed, by US troops and carried out by Iraqis against other Iraqis. (Plausible deniability) Torture implements include sodomizing with water bottles, jabbing with screwdrivers, electrical shock to body parts, etc. Sounds much like Abu Ghraib methods?
4. Blackwater involvement mostly protection of government and corporate officials at any cost. Much costs associated!

more will be added....

Who wants to bet that Donald Rumsfeld is hiding in some non-extradition country now? He's disappeared off the map since those days.

YouTube - US forces turn a blind eye to torture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_yVP4HL4EM&feature=player_embedded)

(As much as I hate to say this.....this is the sort of stuff that can be expected on US soil if armed revolution breaks out. Are you prepared to one day be in the same shoes as a tortured Iraqi?)

[dean.engelhardt]

Is Iraq really better off without Saddam Hussein?

Is the US really better off without him?

Should the US police other counties that inhumanly treat people?

If so, does that include our friend Israel?

I think I know how people on this site will answer. I just wish we had more voices in D.C.

[Kludge]

This is actually the lowest reported # of casualties so far by a mainstream-credible organization (well, aside from the USG).


The title of this thread should be edited. Only a bit over 100k deaths, rest were wounded.

[teacherone]

This is actually the lowest reported # of casualties so far by a mainstream-credible organization (well, aside from the USG).


The title of this thread should be edited. Only a bit over 100k deaths, rest were wounded.

^^^cuz wikileaks is cia run

[devil21]

^^^cuz wikileaks is cia run

Maybe, maybe not. Impossible to say for sure one way or the other. I don't see what the CIA has to gain by releasing this sort of information unless they're just trying to provoke muslim extremists into action.

[tangent4ronpaul]

How much broadcast media coverage did this get?

I went looking for it and found zero, zip, nada, nothing...

The only exception was that C-SPAN's Washington Journal gave it an hour on each of 2 consecutive mornings.

thanks,

-t

[Aratus]

250,ooo to 300,ooo iraqi civilian deaths between 2003 and 2008 or 2009?

[tangent4ronpaul]

250,ooo to 300,ooo iraqi civilian deaths between 2003 and 2008 or 2009?

What's weird is that the NGO estimates from like a year ago were about 1 Million. Even the official US "secret" estimates are too low... yet at the same time, this tends to be political and the US has a long history of "keeping score" on how well a conflict is going by the body count. Combatant dead = +1 (so inflate), civi dead = egg on our face (so deflate or claim they were part of insurgent supply chain so a terrorist), inflate # of opposition and body count = attaboy and additional funding...

Yeah, it's all pretty sick. For a good discussion of this durring Vietnam, see "War of Numbers" by Adams.

-t

[phill4paul]

250,000>3,000

Have we paid "them" back yet? Is this still about revenge and protecting America over there so that they don't kill us over here? Or has become something entirely different?

End. The. Fucking. Wars.

[TonyFromTheBronx]

I think this whole Wikileaks stuff is a government op...

first of all...why does this guy Assange get so much media publicity?

secondly, I notice that his "leaks" serve to support false info...such as 250,000 dead when previous estimates were always about 1 million....

and "Al Qaeda" in Pakistan etc.


I think Assange is an agent....limited hangout of accurate info....with poison propaganda pills mixed in

[tangent4ronpaul]

Is this still about ... protecting America over there so that they don't kill us over here? Or has become something entirely different?

That part of it has always been a lie, it's been about pissing ppl off enough that they will fight us over their and come here to attack us. I's been about justifying this farce.


first of all...why does this guy Assange get so much media publicity?

He consistently gets material that scoops the MSN as they rarely do investigative journalism any more and he has a winning "business model" that brings info to him.


secondly, I notice that his "leaks" serve to support false info...such as 250,000 dead when previous estimates were always about 1 million....

That would be the US military telling the higher ups what they want to hear. Inflating and deflating numbers / estimates.

-t

[Kludge]

Alright. It's in the article, in the leaks, and even been posted in this very thread -- that 285k number is NOT deaths but casualties including wounded. Wikileaks is suggesting there are just a few over 109k deaths in Iraq from the beginning of 2004 to the end of 2010. The figure includes US soldier deaths, Iraqi "friendlies," civilians, and "insurgents."