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Agorism
10-19-2010, 07:38 PM
Gay soldier tries to rejoin Army
Activist Lt. Dan Choi, fired under 'Don't Ask,' attempts to reenlist.

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/reuters/2010-10-15t192858z_01_btre69d1i3z00_rtroptp_3_gaymarriage-california-court.grid-5x2.jpg

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39743668/ns/us_news-life


WASHINGTON — A federal judge formally refused on Tuesday to let the Pentagon reinstate its ban on openly gay men and women in the U.S. military while it appeals her decision declaring its "don't ask, don't tell" policy unconstitutional.

A day after tentatively siding against the Obama administration, U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips issued a written decision denying a government request to lift her own injunction barring further Pentagon enforcement of the ban.

Although government concerns about military readiness and cohesion are important, "these interests are outweighed by the compelling public interest of safeguarding fundamental constitutional rights," she wrote in a six-page opinion.

President Barack Obama has insisted he stands by his 2008 campaign pledge to end "don't ask, don't tell," but his administration had urged the judge to allow more time for a political remedy to the issue rather than a court-imposed one.

The Pentagon also has argued that an abrupt change in the 17-year-old policy, enacted into law under then-President Bill Clinton, would hamper the military.

But anticipating an unfavorable ruling on Tuesday, the Defense Department has instructed its recruiters for the first time to start accepting applications from enlistees who acknowledge they are gay.
Video: Dan Choi on last month's 'don't ask, don't tell' ruling

Nevertheless, the administration has served notice that it would take its case to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and seek to block Phillips' order there if she denied a stay.
Following Phillips' decision last week striking down "don't ask, don't tell," the Pentagon on Tuesday made clear that it had told recruiters they must accept gay applicants.

The opening, first spelled out last Friday, was seized by gay rights advocates like Iraq war vet Dan Choi, who showed up Tuesday at a recruiting station in New York City's Times Square.

"In the recruiting station," Choi said in a Twitter posting. "Apparently I'm too old for the Marines! Just filled out the Army application."

Choi, a lieutenant and Iraq combat veteran, was discharged under "don't ask, don't tell" when he came out as being gay in late 2008.

While activists were going to enlist, gay rights groups were continuing to tell service members to avoid revealing that they are gay, fearing they could find themselves in trouble should the law be reinstated.
Douglas Smith, spokesman for U.S. Army Recruiting Command, said even before the ruling that recruiters did not ask applicants about their sexual orientation. The difference now is that recruiters will process those who say they are gay.

"If they were to self-admit that they are gay and want to enlist, we will process them for enlistment, but will tell them that the legal situation could change," Smith said.

He said the enlistment process takes time and recruiters have been told to inform those who are openly gay that they could be declared ineligible if the law is upheld on appeal.

"U.S. Army Recruiting Command is going to follow the law, whatever the law is," he said.

Earlier Tuesday, Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith told reporters that top-level guidance has been issued to recruiting commands informing them that the "don't ask, don't tell" rule has been suspended for now.

Recruiters also have been told to inform potential recruits that the moratorium could be reversed at any point.
Newsweek reports Obama does have other 'DADT' options

Phillips, who was appointed to the federal bench by Clinton, ruled in September that the policy he introduced in 1993 infringes on the constitutional free-speech and due-process rights of gay men and lesbians in uniform.
She put that opinion into effect on Oct. 12 with a blanket injunction requiring the military to stop enforcing the ban and drop pending investigations and discharges stemming from it.

"Don't ask, don't tell" was enacted as a compromise between previous regulations that had long excluded gays from the armed forces altogether and Clinton's original promise to open the military to gays and lesbians outright.

The new law prohibited commanders from asking service members or recruits about their sexual orientation but subjected troops to expulsion if homosexual behavior on their part was revealed or volunteered.
In a separate case last month, a federal judge in Tacoma, Washington, ordered the reinstatement of a former U.S. Air Force Reserve flight nurse who was discharged from the military after revealing she is a lesbian.

The lawsuit challenging the policy was brought by the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay rights group, six years ago.

Clarke Cooper, executive director of Log Cabin Republicans, welcomed the decision.

"Judge Phillips is right to stand with servicemembers by rejecting President Obama's request to continue this discriminatory policy," he said in a statement. "It is vital that as a nation we uphold the fundamental constitutional rights of all soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardsmen.

NBC News Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski, Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

oyarde
10-19-2010, 07:49 PM
This does not seem to be very good circumstaces . I hope the people who could be effected by this think it through clearly .

Agorism
10-19-2010, 08:00 PM
This does not seem to be very good circumstaces . I hope the people who could be effected by this think it through clearly .

Ya 99% are staying quiet I think, but the people who were semi-activist after being discharged have an opportunity to make some noise.


To me it goes beyond supporting gay rights, which I support. I don't like the tribalism involved in the military, and I don't even think the president should get a standing army. If he's going to have one though there should be a lot of diversity in it without discrimination against transexuals, transgendered,etc.

oyarde
10-19-2010, 08:10 PM
Ya 99% are staying quiet I think, but the people who were semi-activist after being discharged have an opportunity to make some noise.


To me it goes beyond supporting gay rights, which I support. I don't like the tribalism involved in the military, and I don't even think the president should get a standing army. If he's going to have one though there should be a lot of diversity in it without discrimination against transexuals, transgendered,etc.

LOL , I would want to meet the guy who volunteers for the transexual command .

Agorism
10-19-2010, 08:12 PM
Just more government agencies to get rid of...

oyarde
10-19-2010, 08:18 PM
Ya 99% are staying quiet I think, but the people who were semi-activist after being discharged have an opportunity to make some noise.


To me it goes beyond supporting gay rights, which I support. I don't like the tribalism involved in the military, and I don't even think the president should get a standing army. If he's going to have one though there should be a lot of diversity in it without discrimination against transexuals, transgendered,etc.

The tribalism thing may be where some of the neccessary esprit de corps and lethalism comes from . I had never given it a thought before .

PBrady
10-19-2010, 08:22 PM
I actually saw Dan Choi speak at my school last week. I was extremely unimpressed with both the way he presented himself, and just what he had to say in general, despite that I believe in DADT repeal.

Afterwards I was talking with a gay guy who was in the Army from 1982-2006 as a tank commander who agreed. He also pointed out that Choi's whole background in the army is someone fishy, and a few things don't add up.

oyarde
10-19-2010, 08:28 PM
I actually saw Dan Choi speak at my school last week. I was extremely unimpressed with both the way he presented himself, and just what he had to say in general, despite that I believe in DADT repeal.

Afterwards I was talking with a gay guy who was in the Army from 1982-2006 as a tank commander who agreed. He also pointed out that Choi's whole background in the army is someone fishy, and a few things don't add up.

I have never talked to him and no little about him. I will say this , he has been out for three years and is a college graduate and not a young guy , why would he want to join the Army ? He is an attention seeker ? maybe a little nuts ?

Agorism
10-19-2010, 08:34 PM
The tribalism thing may be where some of the neccessary esprit de corps and lethalism comes from . I had never given it a thought before .

Ya, I think government killing should be treated just as an individual killing someone.

oyarde
10-20-2010, 07:50 PM
Looks like a stay was granted by the by a federal appeals court. They could re instate the previous policy .