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bighairycaveman
10-18-2010, 05:54 PM
John Dennis is awesome and I would feel guilty watching the election results on Nov 2nd if I didn't donate. How many of you guys can I get to match my $25?
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John Dennis for U.S. Congress to me
show details 7:52 PM (0 minutes ago)
I am grateful for your donation of $25.00 to my campaign to defeat Nancy Pelosi. Thank you.

Running against one of the most powerful politicians in Washington is a daunting task. Your contribution, and the encouragement I have received from people like you across the country, will help me meet the challenge.

America's great experiment in liberty is at stake in this election. With your help, I'll carry that message to the voters, and will battle against everything that Nancy Pelosi represents.

Thank you again, and I look forward to your continued support.

Sincerely,

John Dennis

bighairycaveman
10-18-2010, 09:03 PM
guess not :(

tpreitzel
10-18-2010, 09:10 PM
Personally, I can't donate anymore this month, but I'd sure love to donate to John's campaign again ... I donated ONCE this month, $20 about a week ago to Art Robinson's campaign. Unfortunately, I'm counting pennies this month due to medical bills. Keep the faith. Some kindred spirit will likely match you in time. ;)

libertarian4321
10-19-2010, 09:31 AM
I focus my money on winnable campaigns, so I sent $35 to Rand Paul instead, mostly because of that despicable ad his opponent is running.

Deborah K
10-19-2010, 10:26 AM
I focus my money on winnable campaigns, so I sent $35 to Rand Paul instead, mostly because of that despicable ad his opponent is running.

So, does that mean you didn't donate to Dr. Paul's presidential campaign, after all, no one considered his campaign winnable. :rolleyes: You might want to bear in mind that Dr. Paul has been stumping for John Dennis.

Donated. :mad:

libertarian4321
10-19-2010, 12:51 PM
So, does that mean you didn't donate to Dr. Paul's presidential campaign, after all, no one considered his campaign winnable. :rolleyes: You might want to bear in mind that Dr. Paul has been stumping for John Dennis.

Donated. :mad:

Ron Paul was running in a field of 10+ candidates. He was down no more than 15% to the front runner in the months heading into the primaries, and depending on the poll, was often much closer than that. He was an underdog, yes, but had a shot, albeit a long shot.

Dennis isn't a long shot, he has no shot. Dennis was down 60+% in the only poll I've seen on that race (I'm surprised they even bothered to do a single poll- the district is so lopsided they usually don't bother). It's a district where the Republican never pulls even 20% of the vote (Republicans typically pull 12-15% there). A district that is NINE FREAKING PERCENT Republican (more than 60% of the voters in the district are registered Dem- so for those hoping for Indies to put him over the top, they won't do it- not even if Pelosi doesn't get a single Indy vote).

There is a huge difference between being down 10-15% in a free for all style PRIMARY race and being down 60+% in a general election in a one-party fiefdom.

Hey, if you just want to donate because you like the guy, go for it- I've donated to hopeless candidates in the past because I liked them. But this year I'm limiting my donations to those who at least have some chance (even if only a slim chance).

I know a lot of you get all hyped up because you like the candidate and simply ignore demographics/reality. I've seen it happen time and time again. I had this same discussion on the Schiff boards in the weeks before the primary election (and, btw, Schiff was better positioned to win than Dennis is).

I know a bunch of you will be in here the day after the elections saying "I don't understand it, how could they elect Pelosi in a 64-30% landslide over a great guy like John Dennis?"

Well, I'm not the kind of guy who ignores things like a 61% Democratic registration and the fact that its the most liberal district IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY (those sort of things matter in elections, folks). Being an engineer, I look at things analytically, not emotionally- and John Dennis has no chance of winning- the only thing in doubt is the ultimate margin of victory for Pelosi. Will it be 20% or 70% (which is a bit less than her average margin victory)?

With the tons of money from around the country that have flowed into his campaign and the fact that he's a good candidate (seriously, I like the guy- I like his stances, I think he's got some charisma- I'd vote for him in a heart beat, and believe he could be a great candidate in ANOTHER DISTRICT) he will likely do significantly better than any Republican has in the past in that district- but given that the best Republican performance in 9 tries has been 18%, he's not going to even come close to winning. My 64-30% is probably pretty close to what he'll get, but even being wildly optimistic, he won't top 40% (which would still be a crushing defeat).

The only way he'd have a shot in that district is if there were multiple strong liberal candidates running in the race- if you had say Cindy Sheehan running as an indy, and Jerry Browne running for the Green Party- then you might get enough vote splitting to give a guy like Dennis a chance in that district. But one on one, he's DOA.

LudwigVonMisoSoup
10-19-2010, 01:44 PM
Blah, blah, blah.
Did John Dennis steal your girlfriend or piss in your Froot Loops? How much time have you spent telling everyone on the forums about Dennis' chances of winning? If people want to donate to him, let them. Jesus. Again, I ask you to use your time in a more efficient way and phone bank or campaign for YOUR preferred candidate. The rest of us are doing our part on ours.

libertarian4321
10-19-2010, 03:37 PM
Did John Dennis steal your girlfriend or piss in your Froot Loops? How much time have you spent telling everyone on the forums about Dennis' chances of winning? If people want to donate to him, let them. Jesus. Again, I ask you to use your time in a more efficient way and phone bank or campaign for YOUR preferred candidate. The rest of us are doing our part on ours.

Did you read my post, or did you just start ranting without bothering to read what I wrote?

I was asked by Deb K if I donated to Ron Paul, and I explained that I did because Ron Paul had a chance, whereas John Dennis clearly does not.

I stated that I like the guy (so your Fruit loops comment is way off):


I like the guy- I like his stances, I think he's got some charisma- I'd vote for him in a heart beat, and believe he could be a great candidate in ANOTHER DISTRICT


I also said anyone is free to send money to anyone they want:


Hey, if you just want to donate because you like the guy, go for it

So now that you can see what I actually wrote, what is your problem?

Are you upset because I pointed out what should be obvious to anyone with even a modicum of analytical ability, that the guy HAS NO CHANCE in that district?

I'm not a delusional wild-eyed optimist- I guess it's a character flaw. If you want to read irrationally optimistic posts about how John Dennis is going to win in the most liberal district in the USA, there are plenty of other folks out here who will give you your fill. I guess if you want to do the see no evil, here no evil thing, you can just skip over my posts and read those.

Or would you prefer I make up unrealistic bull shit posts like:

(I'm now turning on a Howdy Doody smile and entering completely irrational optimism mode).

John Dennis is a small government libertarian and I love him!!!!

Nancy Pelosi is a big government liberal, and we know big government liberalism doesn't sell in San Francisco!!!!! No sir, it does not- never has and never will!!!!

Hurrah for John Dennis!!!!!!

I'm sure the ultra liberal San Francisco voters are going to see the light and vote for John Dennis if we just want it bad enough. Yayyyyy!!!!!!!!

Sure, they usually vote about 80% for Pelosi, and voted 85% for Obama, 84% for Kerry, 80% for Feinstein, and 84% for Barbara Boxer, but I'm sure there's a libertarian conservative groundswell out there that will carry John Dennis to 51% rather than the ~12% that Republicans usually get in that district. Woo Hoo!!!!!

They've just been waiting for the right candidate! Yes sirreee!!!!

It's going to happen, I can feel it! Hip Hip Hooray!!!!!!

All we need to do is send him money, spin around, click our heels three times, and wish as hard as we can, and victory is guaranteed!!!!!

tpreitzel
10-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Simply disregard the distractions and donate as you can. We now have Schiff and Kokesh with radio shows and vastly greater recognition among the electorate as a result of our past efforts, and it IS PRECISELY THESE PAST EFFORTS THAT WILL LIKELY PAVE THE WAY FOR THEIR EVENTUAL ELECTION INTO OFFICE.

LudwigVonMisoSoup
10-19-2010, 05:51 PM
4321 proves my point once again that he's obsessed with telling people that Dennis won't win. We got it, dude. Move on. You're wasting your time.

libertarian4321
10-20-2010, 11:20 PM
4321 proves my point once again that he's obsessed with telling people that Dennis won't win. We got it, dude. Move on. You're wasting your time.

I addressed your questions and accusations in a rational manner (well, except for the last part, where I responded the way you seem to want me to).

If you don't have the intelligence to understand that, or to respond in kind, I can't help you.

LudwigVonMisoSoup
10-20-2010, 11:25 PM
I addressed your questions and accusations in a rational manner (well, except for the last part, where I responded the way you seem to want me to).

If you don't have the intelligence to understand that, or to respond in kind, I can't help you.

I understand your point, but your wasting your time writing up 15 paragraph responses. If you don't want to support Dennis, you don't have to click on this forum. It's pretty simple.

Deborah K
10-21-2010, 07:47 AM
Simply disregard the distractions and donate as you can. We now have Schiff and Kokesh with radio shows and vastly greater recognition among the electorate as a result of our past efforts, and it IS PRECISELY THESE PAST EFFORTS THAT WILL LIKELY PAVE THE WAY FOR THEIR EVENTUAL ELECTION INTO OFFICE.

Very good points. And, their name recognition and influence help pave the way for future liberty candidates.

Deborah K
10-21-2010, 07:51 AM
libertarian4321, the opposition loves people like you; you're so willing to give up because you don't like the numbers. Perhaps your profession works against you in the cause of liberty.

Brian4Liberty
10-21-2010, 10:28 AM
John Dennis is awesome and I would feel guilty watching the election results on Nov 2nd if I didn't donate. How many of you guys can I get to match my $25?

Already done!

libertarian4321
10-21-2010, 04:11 PM
libertarian4321, the opposition loves people like you; you're so willing to give up because you don't like the numbers. Perhaps your profession works against you in the cause of liberty.

It's not about "giving up," it's about using resources wisely. We surely don't have unlimited resources- anytime you squander resources on a race that is not winnable , you may be costing yourself a win in a competitive race elsewhere.

If you have $X to spend, and have 2 good candidates, one who is in a hopeless race and the other who is competitive, logic dictates spending all that money on the guy who has a chance, rather than spending it on a hopeless candidate. If you split that money, you may well doom the candidate who has a chance.

Yes, sometimes being logical is a detriment to enthusiasm. I'll admit to being guilty of that. The good thing is, I'm never the guy who is crushed and looking for scapegoats when a Quixotic campaign lands with a thud on election day.

We need both enthusiasm and logic. All passion and no logic leads to delusional expectations and inefficient use of resources. On the other hand, you need the enthusiastic people too- they are much better when it comes to passing out literature or getting people fired up at rallies.

Deborah K
10-21-2010, 04:52 PM
It's not about "giving up," it's about using resources wisely. We surely don't have unlimited resources- anytime you squander resources on a race that is not winnable , you may be costing yourself a win in a competitive race elsewhere.

If you have $X to spend, and have 2 good candidates, one who is in a hopeless race and the other who is competitive, logic dictates spending all that money on the guy who has a chance, rather than spending it on a hopeless candidate. If you split that money, you may well doom the candidate who has a chance.

Yes, sometimes being logical is a detriment to enthusiasm. I'll admit to being guilty of that. The good thing is, I'm never the guy who is crushed and looking for scapegoats when a Quixotic campaign lands with a thud on election day.

We need both enthusiasm and logic. All passion and no logic leads to delusional expectations and inefficient use of resources. On the other hand, you need the enthusiastic people too- they are much better when it comes to passing out literature or getting people fired up at rallies.


No one is suggesting an either/or decision here. When you have a viable candidate, in the sense that Dennis is a more than suitable replacement for Pelosi, then comments like: "it's not a winnable race because of demographics" IS giving up in my opinion. If everyone who used that as a reason not to donate -DONATED - someone like Dennis would stand a much better chance.

Not all Democrats will blindly vote for Pelosi in that district. Especially if given a suitable alternative. All Dennis needs is a chance to get his message out to everyone, via Ads, about where she has failed and he would succeed.

Democrats in the house are jumping ship right now where Pelosi is concerned: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/16/endangered-house-democrats-campaign-pelosi/

Dennis could run an ad on this, if he had the money.

libertarian4321
10-22-2010, 03:23 PM
No one is suggesting an either/or decision here. When you have a viable candidate, in the sense that Dennis is a more than suitable replacement for Pelosi, then comments like: "it's not a winnable race because of demographics" IS giving up in my opinion. If everyone who used that as a reason not to donate -DONATED - someone like Dennis would stand a much better chance.



Sure Dennis is more suitable than Pelosi. So is the Libertarian candidate. Neither has any chance of winning, though.

If the standard is to support for the more libertarian candidate in every race, we should all be tossing money at every Libertarian candidate we can find on the ballot in every state.

In almost every case, the Libertarian candidate is more libertarian than the Republican, and if ability to win is not an issue, why not just scatter shot money to all Libertarians?

Of course, we both know the answer. We don't support Libertarians because they can't win, so most of us don't support them, even though we agree with them. That's exactly how I feel about John Dennis. Seems to be a good guy, has a good background story, has a fair amount of charisma, seems to be very libertarian on the issues, and has zero chance of winning.

Again, I'm not telling you how to spend your money. If you want to send money to John Dennis, have at it. I'm just suggesting that if you have limited funds, the money could be better spent on good candidates who have a chance to win.

If John Dennis wins in November, I'll come admit I screwed up in my analysis, but that isn't going to happen, folks.

Anyway, I'll be in San Fran tomorrow trying to convince 3 registered voters to vote for John Dennis (well, maybe 2 of them, one is an unabashed liberal even though she's not a registered Dem, and she's hopeless).

Deborah K
10-22-2010, 06:50 PM
Sure Dennis is more suitable than Pelosi. So is the Libertarian candidate. Neither has any chance of winning, though.

If the standard is to support for the more libertarian candidate in every race, we should all be tossing money at every Libertarian candidate we can find on the ballot in every state.

In almost every case, the Libertarian candidate is more libertarian than the Republican, and if ability to win is not an issue, why not just scatter shot money to all Libertarians?

Of course, we both know the answer. We don't support Libertarians because they can't win, so most of us don't support them, even though we agree with them. That's exactly how I feel about John Dennis. Seems to be a good guy, has a good background story, has a fair amount of charisma, seems to be very libertarian on the issues, and has zero chance of winning.

Again, I'm not telling you how to spend your money. If you want to send money to John Dennis, have at it. I'm just suggesting that if you have limited funds, the money could be better spent on good candidates who have a chance to win.

If John Dennis wins in November, I'll come admit I screwed up in my analysis, but that isn't going to happen, folks.

Anyway, I'll be in San Fran tomorrow trying to convince 3 registered voters to vote for John Dennis (well, maybe 2 of them, one is an unabashed liberal even though she's not a registered Dem, and she's hopeless).

Well, make sure once you convince them to vote for Dennis NOT to donate cuz he can't win. :rolleyes:

libertarian4321
10-24-2010, 11:43 PM
Well, make sure once you convince them to vote for Dennis NOT to donate cuz he can't win. :rolleyes:

Had the Dennis discussion today over dim sum.

It was an Epic Fail. Partly because of the language barrier (their English is not so good, and my Cantonese is almost non-existent) and partly because they hate both major parties.

While they tend to be fairly conservative socially and fiscally, and despise the Dems, they have become so repulsed by the GOP (mostly over the wars and their perception that the GOP is anti-intellectual) that they refuse to vote GOP. They weren't buying my pitch that John Dennis is NOT a typical GOP type. My guess that my sister in law (the liberal one) one will vote for Pelosi, and the other two will just not vote (I'm going to try and convince them to vote Libertarian tomorrow- they can get the small government conservatism without the Republican douche baggery- hopefully I can do this without getting tossed out of the house).

It wasn't a total failure, though. The dim sum was great...

Deborah K
10-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Had the Dennis discussion today over dim sum.

It was an Epic Fail. Partly because of the language barrier (their English is not so good, and my Cantonese is almost non-existent) and partly because they hate both major parties.

While they tend to be fairly conservative socially and fiscally, and despise the Dems, they have become so repulsed by the GOP (mostly over the wars and their perception that the GOP is anti-intellectual) that they refuse to vote GOP. They weren't buying my pitch that John Dennis is NOT a typical GOP type. My guess that my sister in law (the liberal one) one will vote for Pelosi, and the other two will just not vote (I'm going to try and convince them to vote Libertarian tomorrow- they can get the small government conservatism without the Republican douche baggery- hopefully I can do this without getting tossed out of the house).

It wasn't a total failure, though. The dim sum was great...

Well, I applaud your effort.

libertarian4321
10-30-2010, 07:48 AM
Well, I applaud your effort.

I'm back, my wife is still in SF. I told her to take her liberal sister shopping on election day- keep her away from the polls, it's the best I can do :)