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View Full Version : Would Religion Be A Way To Skirt Many Laws?




AGRP
10-16-2010, 10:40 AM
My ______ religion states that I cannot eat processed/pasteurized foods.

My ______ religion states ________.


Could we create a religion called "Liberty" ;)

FrankRep
10-16-2010, 10:43 AM
http://www.r3volutionconsultants.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Logo_Mises.jpg (http://mises.org/)


Religious Roots of Liberty (http://mises.org/daily/3639)


Ludwig von Mises Institute (http://mises.org/)
August 26, 2009

Expatriate
10-16-2010, 12:19 PM
The "Church of Liberty"?

Rastafarians get to smoke pot. What if paying to support murder was prohibited by your religion? Forget it, it would be considered a cult.

BuddyRey
10-16-2010, 12:28 PM
I feel like the Religious Society of Friends (Quakerism) meets up with this ideal to a certain extent. There are major taboos on war, violence, honorific titles, and loyalty oaths. As a Quaker, I could probably excuse myself from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at a political gathering, church, etc. but I haven't yet done so, since people have some pretty delicate sensibilities about that kind of thing.

In addition, there is no "swearing in" during court proceedings for Quakers, no rising for "the Right Honorable so and so." Since all men and women are equal under God, a Quaker would address a judge by his or her first name instead of "Your Honor." It's a really cool way of looking at the world and dealing with people, IMHO.

Ekrub
10-16-2010, 12:33 PM
The "Church of Liberty"?

Rastafarians get to smoke pot. What if paying to support murder was prohibited by your religion? Forget it, it would be considered a cult.

Lol I wonder if anyone has tries that. "Paying a federal income tax that funds abortion is against my religion"

BuddyRey
10-16-2010, 01:26 PM
//

Expatriate
10-16-2010, 11:07 PM
Lol I wonder if anyone has tries that. "Paying a federal income tax that funds abortion is against my religion"

Someone MUST have by now. Anyone ever heard of this happening?

"Paying (insert tax) that supports (insert heinious act) is against my (insert religion) beliefs."

Pitting the sacred cow of religion against the sacred cow of taxation in a fight to the death sounds entertaining.

Expatriate
10-17-2010, 12:03 AM
Found a case of this happening! Dude signed over everyting he had to the church in order to gain tax-exempt status... :rolleyes:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/article_7279aab1-b2d7-5f5e-b748-f8b67ee9fd50.html



It's one thing to give offerings, tithes and donations to your church and write them off on your taxes as a charitable donation. But when ministers of the Orem-based Church of Compassionate Service gave everything they had to their church in order to receive tax-exempt status from the IRS, it got the government's attention.

Now the U.S. Justice Department has filed a case against the church and its leader, Kevin Hartshorn, for promoting what it calls a false church-based tax-fraud scheme. The Justice Department says the Utah man is soliciting people to become "ministers" and sign over their assets to his church, taking a vow of poverty to avoid paying income taxes.

Federal lawyers are seeking a court injunction against Hartshorn's Orem-based operation. A civil complaint they filed Monday in federal court in Salt Lake City also demands his records.

Hartshorn told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he's unaware of the government's complaint. He says he's just running a religious order called the Church of Compassionate Service in compliance with tax laws.

The government alleges Hartshorn takes the title to his ministers' homes and deposits their earnings in a church account to avoid taxes, then issues debit cards for the ministers to spend the money.

Locally, leaders in the religious community sense there is something at least deceitful going on with Hartshorn's church. Provo Bishop Kevin J. Crowell, OC, DD of the Emmanuel Catholic Mission, Order of Compassionate Monks, is not concerned that his church will be affected as it is a recognized religion, but he does feel Hartshorn is taking it to the limit.

"He does appear to know the rules of the game and is playing them to his advantage," Crowell said. "It sounds cultish in the greatest sense of the word."

The Reverend Jessica A. Hatch, interim minister at St. Mary's Episcopal, understands the necessity to be compliant with IRS regulations.

"Tax laws are quite clear what constitutes a legitimate contribution," Hatch said. "This is illegal with any kind of a non-profit. There are very clear procedures. This sounds very intentional."

Hatch believes there is a scam born every minute and particularly in this area because members of all faiths tend to be trusting when their church is involved. "I don't even want people to hand out business cards here [at St. Mary's]," Hatch said.

"It sounds to me like these people are masquerading around religion," said Minister Charu Das, of the Krishna Temple in Spanish Fork. "If you're selling gold and it's the real thing, you would want counterfeiters to be shut down."

In part, the Justice Department is asking the court find that Hartshorn has engaged in conduct that substantially interferes with the enforcement of the internal revenue laws and that injunctive relief is appropriate to prevent a recurrence of that conduct; and to enter a permanent injunction prohibiting Hartshorn from conducting business through the Church of Compassionate Service or through any other name or entity.

Hartshorn went to trial on securities fraud in 2007 and was found not guilty.

cindy25
10-17-2010, 12:44 AM
the Amish are exempt from social security

Live_Free_Or_Die
10-17-2010, 02:39 AM
the Amish are exempt from social security

only in their own geographically organized communities.

Danke
10-17-2010, 02:47 AM
the Amish are exempt from social security

As anyone in the private sector is.

paulitics
10-17-2010, 07:43 AM
As anyone in the private sector is.

How so?

Danke
10-18-2010, 09:53 PM
How so?

SS is voluntary.

But yes, it has been increasingly difficult for your average American to function in society without a SSN.

AGRP
10-18-2010, 11:29 PM
I feel like the Religious Society of Friends (Quakerism) meets up with this ideal to a certain extent. There are major taboos on war, violence, honorific titles, and loyalty oaths. As a Quaker, I could probably excuse myself from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance at a political gathering, church, etc. but I haven't yet done so, since people have some pretty delicate sensibilities about that kind of thing.

In addition, there is no "swearing in" during court proceedings for Quakers, no rising for "the Right Honorable so and so." Since all men and women are equal under God, a Quaker would address a judge by his or her first name instead of "Your Honor." It's a really cool way of looking at the world and dealing with people, IMHO.

What about an income tax etc?

How do you get around local taxes?

Licenses (fishing, hunting, etc) ?

Etc?

pacelli
10-19-2010, 05:36 AM
This guy, George Gordon, avoids all of the above by practicing the mosaic law.


YouTube - Fire Insurance and Banking are Criminal Activities (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2t7HVpCKbw)

In this one he starts out mentioning 11 benefits-- those are from the law of God that we receive for following the law.

YouTube - George Gordon- Tax Protest.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIo6Jzec2VE)


Finally, in this broadcast he covers the subject matter of following one of the laws of God in response to a listener named Theresa:

YouTube - George Gordon-Christians, Is it too inconvenient to follow God's.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJwkXaj7vbY)



Full radio archives located here:

http://library.georgegordon.com/audio

Some good broadcasts to listen to on this subject matter are:

10 Commandments and US Law (2009)

Biblical v Human Doctrines (2009)

How Would Jesus Vote (2008)

Is the Law of God Abolished? (2006)

If you had to listen to only 1 broadcast to get Gordon's general concept (thats 7 hours commercial-free), I'd recommend "How Would Jesus Vote" from 2008.

BuddyRey
10-19-2010, 12:16 PM
What about an income tax etc?

How do you get around local taxes?

Licenses (fishing, hunting, etc) ?

Etc?

Not sure, but it's certainly worth looking into. For a long time, Quakers have trended toward left-liberalism, but there seems to be an insurgent libertarian strain gaining influence too. If we can cultivate enough anti-state sentiment in the Quaker movement, who knows how far they could go?

pacelli
10-19-2010, 04:30 PM
Thanks for saving the thread, BuddyRey.:)

I start throwing George Gordon in threads about these and other subjects and the thread dies quickly!

AGRP
10-19-2010, 07:18 PM
Not sure, but it's certainly worth looking into. For a long time, Quakers have trended toward left-liberalism, but there seems to be an insurgent libertarian strain gaining influence too. If we can cultivate enough anti-state sentiment in the Quaker movement, who knows how far they could go?

How do Quakers avoid the mentioned taxes/permits/etc?

oyarde
10-19-2010, 07:24 PM
How do Quakers avoid the mentioned taxes/permits/etc?

They challenged it in the court system and won . Written into Medicaid .Insurance being against the belief that it would be a lack of faith . Social Security Insurance .

oyarde
10-20-2010, 01:35 PM
Come to think of it , I have a lack of faith too . My lack of faith is in the theives taking my money .

JVParkour
10-20-2010, 01:41 PM
My youth pastor when he got his ministers license was able to opt out of paying S.S.

oyarde
10-20-2010, 05:51 PM
My youth pastor when he got his ministers license was able to opt out of paying S.S.

I would be willing to say I was a vampire , werewolf etc. if I could get out of paying SS . :)