Soldier says he was ordered to delete Fort Hood videos

[Anti Federalist]

Soldier says ordered to delete Fort Hood videos

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101015/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

FORT HOOD, Texas – A soldier who recorded the terror of last year's deadly shooting rampage in Fort Hood using his cell phone was ordered by an officer to delete both videos, a military court heard Friday.

Under cross examination, Pfc. Lance Aviles told an Article 32 hearing that his noncommissioned officer ordered him to destroy the two videos on Nov. 5, the same day that a gunman unleashed a volley of bullets inside a processing center at the Texas Army post.

The footage could have been vital evidence at the military hearing to decide if Maj. Nidal Hasan should stand trial in the shootings. The 40-year-old American-born Muslim has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.

[specsaregood]

I wonder what type of phone it was. If it was an iphone, the footage might still be accessible.

[torchbearer]

I wonder what type of phone it was. If it was an iphone, the footage might still be accessible.

true, as long as it wasn't saved to flash memory, the videos could still be there.
recovering supposedly deleted files is a service i provide.

[specsaregood]

recovering supposedly deleted files is a service i provide.

The cops too, they run whole classes on how to recover data from iphones.

[Anti Federalist]

The cops too, they run whole classes on how to recover data from iphones.

So, the new "smart" phones, not only track you to a 1 meter radius, the content on them can never be truly deleted, eh?

When my 15 year old i700 dies, that will be the end of cel phones for me.

:p

[torchbearer]

So, the new "smart" phones, not only track you to a 1 meter radius, the content on them can never be truly deleted, eh?

When my 15 year old i700 dies, that will be the end of cel phones for me.

:p

that data will be deleted when new data is written over it.
when you erase a file, you don't actually zero it out on your drive, you just remove it from a master index file.

[specsaregood]

So, the new "smart" phones, not only track you to a 1 meter radius, the content on them can never be truly deleted, eh?

When my 15 year old i700 dies, that will be the end of cel phones for me.

:p

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[devil21]

Wanna bet that the second reported shooter was on them?

[lynnf]

guess he didn't understand that you shouldn't obey illegal orders!

lynn

[oyarde]

guess he didn't understand that you shouldn't obey illegal orders!

lynn

I doubt that could be construed as an illegal order .

[phill4paul]

I doubt that could be construed as an illegal order .

Destroying potential evidence in light of a future criminal investigation would not be an illegal order?

[oyarde]

Destroying potential evidence in light of a future criminal investigation would not be an illegal order?

I was not there , but I will make a guess his Sgt. was concerned about privacy of the people involved and media and probably did not give evidence a thought . Just a hunch .

[phill4paul]

I was not there , but I will make a guess his Sgt. was concerned about privacy of the people involved and media and probably did not give evidence a thought . Just a hunch .

I thought the discussion was regarding the actions of the enlisted vs. an order by a superior to destroy potential evidence.
Regardless of the reasons for the order the soldier should have refused.

Edit: He should have also made back-ups ( in case of a cover-up) and submitted one to JAG.

[oyarde]

I thought the discussion was regarding the actions of the enlisted vs. an order by a superior to destroy potential evidence.
Regardless of the reasons for the order the soldier should have refused.

If he worked for me I would not even have allowed a camera phone to be carried on duty . If he had that on the phone , he probably should not have mentioned it .Once the prosecutor was assigned he could have stopped by his office , asked to see him and offer it to the officer .

[lynnf]

I was not there , but I will make a guess his Sgt. was concerned about privacy of the people involved and media and probably did not give evidence a thought . Just a hunch .


makes no never mind..... destruction of evidence an illegal order. and since when is the military trained to respect citizen's privacy rights? they are only trained to kill people and break things while trying to stay alive themselves.


way back when I was in, they told us to obey orders and ask questions later. good advice if you are only looking out for #1, bad advice if you have a higher standard, like the truth.

lynn

[oyarde]

makes no never mind..... destruction of evidence an illegal order. and since when is the military trained to respect citizen's privacy rights? they are only trained to kill people and break things while trying to stay alive themselves.


way back when I was in, they told us to obey orders and ask questions later. good advice if you are only looking out for #1, bad advice if you have a higher standard, like the truth.

lynn

My first concern was ALWAYS for my people . I accepted all orders cheerfully and then obeyed whichever ones I considered reasonable .

[phill4paul]

If he worked for me I would not even have allowed a camera phone to be carried on duty . If he had that on the phone , he probably should not have mentioned it .Once the prosecutor was assigned he could have stopped by his office , asked to see him and offer it to the officer .

The article does not state that Pvt. Aviles was actually on duty at the time. Though it really doesn't make a difference.

Why is it that you would not allow a camera phone?

[oyarde]

The article does not state that Pvt. Aviles was actually on duty at the time. Though it really doesn't make a difference.

Why is it that you would not allow a camera phone?

I did not allow my people to have any recording devices or keep journals . Various reasons . I did buy the beer though and was well loved even though strict about a very few things.

[oyarde]

I thought the discussion was regarding the actions of the enlisted vs. an order by a superior to destroy potential evidence.
Regardless of the reasons for the order the soldier should have refused.

Edit: He should have also made back-ups ( in case of a cover-up) and submitted one to JAG.

It is a shame that JAG does not have it .

[phill4paul]

I did not allow my people to have any recording devices or keep journals . Various reasons . I did buy the beer though and was well loved even though strict about a very few things.

Dodged the question oyarde.;) What were the various reasons?

[oyarde]

Dodged the question oyarde.;) What were the various reasons?

One of my reasons was I did not want to lose one of my guys and have all of his personal things returned to , say , his Mother and there would be things on there that would not be things he would want Mom to know about . One of the reasons was security . One reason was I did things that would often have been viewed as unorthodox and it was in everyones best interest if there was no record of . Then there were things that were just blatantly against the rules ( the usual , weed smoking , fraternization of NCO's with enlisted ) .

[phill4paul]

One of my reasons was I did not want to lose one of my guys and have all of his personal things returned to , say , his Mother and there would be things on there that would not be things he would want Mom to know about . One of the reasons was security . One reason was I did things that would often have been viewed as unorthodox and it was in everyones best interest if there was no record of . Then there were things that were just blatantly against the rules ( the usual , weed smoking , fraternization of NCO's with enlisted ) .

Fair enough.

[oyarde]

Fair enough.

Nothing good can come from written record or recorded info , but lots of unintended bad things can come from it . That was how I looked at it .

[oyarde]

Fair enough.

It was hard for me to write that . I am not Catholic , but felt like I was at confession. :)

[lynnf]

Nothing good can come from written record or recorded info , but lots of unintended bad things can come from it . That was how I looked at it .

I'm sure the cops that beat the crap out of Rodney King (and countless others) felt the same way.

I wonder how the NCO that gave the order to delete feels about it now that they've been exposed?

lynn

[oyarde]

I'm sure the cops that beat the crap out of Rodney King (and countless others) felt the same way.


lynn

Yes .

[oyarde]

I'm sure the cops that beat the crap out of Rodney King (and countless others) felt the same way.

I wonder how the NCO that gave the order to delete feels about it now that they've been exposed?

lynn

If he is a decent guy , he probably feels terrible about it .

[squarepusher]

Android phones use removable micro SD cards, shouldn't be a problem with those of data problems.

[BlackTerrel]

I was not there , but I will make a guess his Sgt. was concerned about privacy of the people involved and media and probably did not give evidence a thought . Just a hunch .

Not conspiratorial enough.

[pcosmar]

interesting about the phone, but did they ever identify who purchased the gun they found.

I know Hassan had the same model, but the one they found at the scene was not the one purchased by Hassan.
I do remember the news report at the time. The story owner said it was a different weapon. And a different buyer.
This puzzles me.

[libertarian4321]

makes no never mind..... destruction of evidence an illegal order. and since when is the military trained to respect citizen's privacy rights? they are only trained to kill people and break things while trying to stay alive themselves.



You listen to too much Rush Limbaugh (who never served a day in the military) if you think the only thing military personnel are trained to do is "kill people and break things."

[lynnf]

You listen to too much Rush Limbaugh (who never served a day in the military) if you think the only thing military personnel are trained to do is "kill people and break things."


guess that means you've been listening to him, too, eh, libby?

when you think about it, that's about it. killing people, breaking things, and everything else is to enable #1 and #2.


lynn

[oyarde]

Not conspiratorial enough.

Well , what if the Sgt. did nothing and this kid runs home and downloads this on the net before the victims families are notified . His CO WOULD BE PRETTY PISSED FOR ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN.....

[BrendenR]

Well , what if the Sgt. did nothing and this kid runs home and downloads this on the net before the victims families are notified . His CO WOULD BE PRETTY PISSED FOR ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN.....

Could he not have just confiscated it, and turned it over to the appropriate people?

[oyarde]

Could he not have just confiscated it, and turned it over to the appropriate people?

No , you would prefer not to confiscate his phone , especially if he is married , has a live in or kids .

[oyarde]

About the only acceptable thing you might do is swap phones with him .

[oyarde]

About the only acceptable thing you might do is swap phones with him .

This is also the kind of thing you may not think of at the time ...