So You Think Money is the Root of All Evil ? [Archive]

Working Poor

10-13-2010, 05:44 AM

Not money, it's the love of money... can we at least get the facts straight.
Money is the worlds way of representing our real currency. Most people do not understand that it is the energy inside us that is the real currency. Loving money which has no actual value is so wrong on so many levels.

Governments value or love this energy or currency they attempt to steal it from people by giving it monetary value. The less you value this energy the better it is for governments because the only power that governments have is the energy that the people are willing to sell for this paper stuff. Even gold is not as valuable as the energy inside of humans. If people could understand this governments would completely fold in seconds because people would stop selling themselves short. The poorest person alive living in the lowest of conditions is more valuable than all the money in the world. When people know this everything will change. Love is the only true currency please do not value money more than love.

kahless

10-13-2010, 07:35 AM

Government is the root of all evil.

Philhelm

10-13-2010, 07:38 AM

Perhaps "In God We Trust" is actually referencing the dollar itself, rather than a deity...

squarepusher

10-13-2010, 07:42 AM

Intellectual "property" is the root of all evil.

ill raise you 1

denison

10-13-2010, 07:44 AM

beanie babies are the root of all evil.

reduen

10-13-2010, 07:46 AM

It is greed or covetousness that is the root of all evil...

Stary Hickory

10-13-2010, 07:48 AM

Define evil

reduen

10-13-2010, 07:59 AM

Video is moot as the premise is incorrect to begin with…. I literaly know nobody that believes that money is the root of all evil....

Modern_Matthew

10-13-2010, 07:59 AM

Intellectual "property" is the root of all evil.

Haha. I, too, think it's preposterous to enforce ownership of something intangible.

idirtify

10-13-2010, 08:47 AM

ignorance is the root.

Natalie

10-13-2010, 09:02 AM

No. It is true that some people get greedy with their money, but I don't think that is evil. If anything, lack of money is the root of all evil. If someone is really poor and starving and desperate, they would steal and commit crimes and possibly hurt others in order to save themselves. The crime rate in the ghetto is way higher than the crime rate in a middle-class or rich neighborhoods.

JK/SEA

10-13-2010, 09:20 AM

not money, it's the love of money... Can we at least get the facts straight.

this.

Nate-ForLiberty

10-13-2010, 09:22 AM

you want to know what the root of all evil is....?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:LbM3ywNJfidmFM:http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2271/bunchie50.gif&t=1
......are you sure?

snewbie

10-13-2010, 09:52 AM

Pride and selfishness.

Travlyr

10-13-2010, 09:52 AM

If you guys would just let me own the printing press, I would commission the building of a luxury flying car, travel the world and find a nice tropical island where I could enjoy liberty, peace, beauty and serenity. And I would have beautiful young bikini clad females bring me the finest food and drink. And I would have a passive solar style mansion built for me and my women servants. And I would dig out a cave on the North side of my island for the workers, fence it off so that they do not disturb me, and let them eat left-overs. I would hire security agents to keep the workers in line.

Then, I would pay the largest government in the world to build a military-industrial-complex that would traverse the world killing anybody that tried to take my printing press away. I would pay them well.

And I would buy a media like MSNBC, or something, and pay numnuts to obfuscate the fact that I was the only one with the printing press and divide the people to keep them working & poor & distracted with meaningless bullshit. And my TV shows would be inundated with cops & fake justice to keep the people scared and in line. Again I would use pretty girls on my TV shows to distract the guys, and maybe even use a pretty lesbian girl in the news department in order to be fair and balanced. Okay, I would also put a good looking idiot male or two on the show... for balance as well. I would have my TV dipshits promise free stuff to the subjects to make them like me. Then I would have my TV news dirtbag assholes interview politicians to publicly destroy any of them that pointed out that my printing press was essentially theft from the poeple and should be ended.

Is that evil?

Vessol

10-13-2010, 10:06 AM

Perhaps "In God We Trust" is actually referencing the dollar itself, rather than a deity...

http://nirnadler.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/your-god1.jpg

DamianTV

10-13-2010, 10:08 AM

Danke

10-13-2010, 10:11 AM

Nothing wrong with evil.

Live_Free_Or_Die

10-13-2010, 10:19 AM

Nothing wrong with evil.

Would your recommendation be a little evil now and then, evil in moderation, or just plain evil?

Vessol

10-13-2010, 10:23 AM

http://bookstoysgames.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cthulhu4prez-preview1.png

DamianTV

10-13-2010, 10:48 AM

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:s78IJsCtm3PhRM:http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e49/billy666bc2000/Darth-Vader-animated-funny-animatio.gif&t=1

Sentient Void

10-13-2010, 11:46 AM

Violation of the NAP is the root of all evil.

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 11:49 AM

Violation of the NAP is the root of all evil.

that limits evil to social interaction. if you're alone in an island, you can't commit anything evil, right?

Theocrat

10-13-2010, 11:53 AM

Not money, it's the love of money... can we at least get the facts straight.

Exactly. :)

Vessol

10-13-2010, 12:14 PM

that limits evil to social interaction. if you're alone in an island, you can't commit anything evil, right?

I thought evil was negatively viewed social interactions. What could you do that could be considred morally wrong or evil if you don't effect anyone else?

V4Vendetta

10-13-2010, 12:20 PM

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
Get the quote right, and yes, its true

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 12:20 PM

I thought evil was negatively viewed social interactions. What could you do that could be considred morally wrong or evil if you don't effect anyone else?

i consider evil more broadly. if your ultimate goal is your happiness and having a prosperous life, like objectivists do, evil would be actions detrimental to that goal.

refusing to face reality, trying to not think about a real problem that you know exists, is something i consider evil. for example, you're in an island and for some reason you know you won't be able to count on your usual source of food sometime in the future. you can try to figure out how to make arrangements to prepare for the future, or you can refuse to face reality and act like nothing bad will happen. denials such as this are not extremely rare, and i'd say they're evil (if one's ultimate moral goal is happiness and well being).

ETA: even under other conceptions of morality you can do evil without harming others. i think for christians laziness is evil.

live liberty

10-13-2010, 03:04 PM

Evil is as Evil does.

kahless

10-13-2010, 03:09 PM

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
Get the quote right, and yes, its true

Wake up, the problem is not with money. The LOVE of government is the root of all evil in this world.

Travlyr

10-13-2010, 03:14 PM

Wake up, the problem is not with money. The LOVE of government is the root of all evil in this world.
I disagree, it's who owns government that is evil. A printing press can buy a lot of government and a military to keep the printing press in the hands of evil.

oyarde

10-13-2010, 03:40 PM

Throughout history , it appears that the quest for power may be equivelent to the other major causes of evil .

jclay2

10-13-2010, 04:27 PM

And if you are an NIV person, it actually says "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". However, I do prefer KJV myself.

JohnEngland

10-13-2010, 04:47 PM

Throughout history , it appears that the quest for power may be equivelent to the other major causes of evil .

Yes, perhaps it's better to say that power is the root of all evil. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And what greater power is there than that of controlling the money supply?

ChaosControl

10-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Selfishness is the root of all evil.
Money is just a tool. "The love of money is the root of all evil" could be more accurate, but then of course that is just an element of selfishness, which is the true root of evil.

ClayTrainor

10-13-2010, 05:28 PM

Evil and Good grow out of the same root ;)

MelissaWV

10-13-2010, 05:30 PM

Origin:
bef. 900; ME evel, evil, OE yfel; c. Goth ubils, OHG ubil, G übel, OFris, MD evel

purplechoe

10-13-2010, 05:44 PM

YouTube - Wu Tang Clan "C.R.E.A.M." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjZRAvsZf1g)

RSLudlum

10-13-2010, 05:48 PM

Nah, according to Frank Chodorov it is the income tax. ;)

The Income Tax: Root of all Evil (http://mises.org/etexts/rootofevil.asp)

oyarde

10-13-2010, 05:55 PM

Nah, according to Frank Chodorov it is the income tax. ;)

The Income Tax: Root of all Evil (http://mises.org/etexts/rootofevil.asp)

I like that .

Sentient Void

10-13-2010, 05:56 PM

i consider evil more broadly. if your ultimate goal is your happiness and having a prosperous life, like objectivists do, evil would be actions detrimental to that goal.

refusing to face reality, trying to not think about a real problem that you know exists, is something i consider evil. for example, you're in an island and for some reason you know you won't be able to count on your usual source of food sometime in the future. you can try to figure out how to make arrangements to prepare for the future, or you can refuse to face reality and act like nothing bad will happen. denials such as this are not extremely rare, and i'd say they're evil (if one's ultimate moral goal is happiness and well being).

ETA: even under other conceptions of morality you can do evil without harming others. i think for christians laziness is evil.

I guess we disagree on what constitutes 'evil', then.

I don't think what you describe is evil - just irresponsible.

As per your previous statement - if you were alone on an island - no, I don't think you could possibly do evil. If so - I'd like to hear an example of how doing something to bad to yourself, however painful or irresponsible, would be considered 'evil'. Stupid, irresponsible, maybe - masochistic, sure... but 'evil'? I don't think that makes much sense. I think that strays from what we would all recognize as legitimately 'evil'.

And thus I stick to my point of believing evil is simply rooted in violation of the NAP. All evil is derived from violation of the NAP. If you're not violating the NAP, I don't think evil is being done.

I am open to debate on this, of course - I just don't see how one can be evil without violating the NAP.

purplechoe

10-13-2010, 05:58 PM

YouTube - Free* Government Money With Matthew Lesko! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTjiIm4h_Q)

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 06:13 PM

I guess we disagree on what constitutes 'evil', then.

I don't think what you describe is evil - just irresponsible.

As per your previous statement - if you were alone on an island - no, I don't think you could possibly do evil. If so - I'd like to hear an example of how doing something to bad to yourself, however painful or irresponsible, would be considered 'evil'. Stupid, irresponsible, maybe - masochistic, sure... but 'evil'? I don't think that makes much sense. I think that strays from what we would all recognize as legitimately 'evil'.

And thus I stick to my point of believing evil is simply rooted in violation of the NAP. All evil is derived from violation of the NAP. If you're not violating the NAP, I don't think evil is being done.

I am open to debate on this, of course - I just don't see how one can be evil without violating the NAP.

concepts of good and evil arise in the context of morality. for christians, the ultimate moral goal is, loosely speaking, obeying God. for Objectivists, living and achieving happiness. for both of these moralities, one can do evil without harming others.

it seems that in the morality you follow, not violating the NAP is the ultimate goal, thus that morality only pertains to the social sphere. that morality will not have any relevance when you're alone in an island. in contrast, christians and objectivists do decide their actions in an island based on their ethical code. for a christian, masturbating and worshiping Satan alone in an island will probably be evil, and for an objectivist, evading reality like i described before will be considered evil, as both actions prevent an individual from achieving the ultimate goal according to each of those two ethics.

so yeah, i can see how for you evil can only occur in a social context considering what your ultimate moral goal is (not violating the NAP).

Sentient Void

10-13-2010, 06:26 PM

concepts of good and evil arise in the context of morality. for christians, the ultimate moral goal is, loosely speaking, obeying God. for Objectivists, living and achieving happiness. for both of these moralities, one can do evil without harming others.

it seems that in the morality you follow, not violating the NAP is the ultimate goal, thus that morality only pertains to the social sphere. that morality will not have any relevance when you're alone in an island. in contrast, christians and objectivists do decide their actions in an island based on their ethical code. for a christian, masturbating and worshiping Satan alone in an island will probably be evil, and for an objectivist, evading reality like i described before will be considered evil, as both actions prevent an individual from achieving the ultimate goal according to each of those two ethics.

so yeah, i can see how for you evil can only occur in a social context considering what your ultimate moral goal is (not violating the NAP).

Fair enough. Agreed, then that it depends on context.

Which then leads to another conclusion - evil is, effectively, subjective and not objective. Though an individual may perceive it as objective (based on their views of morality, ethics, as you described) - it is ultimately subjective.

However, I would also say that violation of the NAP is probably more universal and evil than anything else.

ClayTrainor

10-13-2010, 06:31 PM

YouTube - Free* Government Money With Matthew Lesko! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTjiIm4h_Q)

Loooooooooooooooooool!!!! :D:D:D

That was the best reason.tv video yet!

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 06:33 PM

However, I would also say that violation of the NAP is probably more universal and evil than anything else.

sure, and christians, objectivists, and everyone else whose ultimate moral goal isn't acting in accordance to the NAP disagree

ClayTrainor

10-13-2010, 06:35 PM

sure, and christians, objectivists, and everyone else whose ultimate moral goal isn't acting in accordance to the NAP disagree

This might be a stupid question, but on what basis do objectivists reject the validity of the NAP?

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 06:40 PM

This might be a stupid question, but on what basis do objectivists reject the validity of the NAP?

i'm not sure they reject it. i'm not an expert in NAP, so i can't say. but if they accept it, they won't accept it as the ultimate goal. following the NAP would be a choice conducive to the ultimate goal. the ultimate goal is that goal that justifies all others and doesn't require justification (otherwise you'll have an infinite sequence of justifications... i do A because it's conducive to B, and B because it's conducive to C, and so on ad infinitum). all i claim here is that for objectivists and christians following the NAP isn't an ultimate goal. i'm not saying it's incompatible or that they don't follow it as a lesser goal. i don't know.

Sentient Void

10-13-2010, 06:40 PM

sure, and christians, objectivists, and everyone else whose ultimate moral goal isn't acting in accordance to the NAP disagree

I disagree - I think if you ask any objectivist or christian (or really most anyone in general) if it's wrong to *initiate* violence, force, theft or fraud against someone's person or property - they will agree that it's wrong, and to violate these things is evil.

I think it's important to note that they don't understand/realize that they are, in fact, committing initial aggression (and violating the NAP) by advocating certain government policies, or initial aggressions. They mostly or totally agree with the NAP, but they don't think what they are advocating is in violation of the NAP - this is where it is our best opportunity to change the minds of people, IMO - by pointing these things out.

low preference guy

10-13-2010, 06:44 PM

I disagree - I think if you ask any objectivist or christian (or really most anyone in general) if it's wrong to *initiate* violence, force, theft or fraud against someone's person or property - they will agree that it's wrong, and to violate these things is evil.

But you said:

Originally Posted by Sentient Void
However, I would also say that violation of the NAP is probably more universal and evil than anything else.

you're not arguing for that position in your quote. you're now just arguing that it's wrong, not that it's more evil than anything else.

Sentient Void

10-13-2010, 06:55 PM

But you said:

you're not arguing for that position in your quote. you're now just arguing that it's wrong, not that it's more evil than anything else.

Of course - I personally believe it's wrong, period. But I don't see how I'm changing my position.

I acknowledge that perception of what constitutes evil and what doesn't depends on perspective and is subjective depending on who you talk to (who all may find their views of evil as objective). However, I'm saying it's more universally accepted that violating the NAP is evil than anything else - as in, I believe a very significant majority acknowledge the NAP and that violating it is evil - they just don't understand the implications of some of the things they advocate as being actual violations of the NAP.

2young2vote

10-13-2010, 08:37 PM

That is my favorite speech from the book, but that narrator was just so boring and monotone. They need to get people who actually have decent voices to do audio books.

johngr

10-14-2010, 12:40 AM

This short little video would have been a lot better if it did not try to mislead us to think that fiat paper currency is money.

Go back to the original definition. Would it now be DEBT is the Root of all Evil?

Nothing wrong with debt (for starting capital for a business idea you'd otherwise be unable to implement, for example).

How about debt-"money" is the root of all evil.

KMartsOH

10-14-2010, 04:06 AM

Government is the root of all evil.

^
|
|
|

Truer words have never been spoken.

DamianTV

10-14-2010, 04:24 AM

Nothing wrong with debt (for starting capital for a business idea you'd otherwise be unable to implement, for example).

How about debt-"money" is the root of all evil.

You've got a point. But hell, while we are at it, inflation comes from interest on the money (debt) supply in existence. So we could re-re-interpret it to be Charging Interest on Debt based Fiat Currency is the root of all evil.

I have a feeling we could keep going with this for hours.