November 5th BLOWBACK. THINK.

[jrich4rpaul]

How wise is it really to bring to the media's attention that we are comparing Ron Paul to this...

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2006/images/VforVendetta_3.jpg


I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.

[kylejack]

All systems check, we are GO FOR LAUNCH!

[mavtek]

We aren't, we're comparing our government to the Government that was in that movie.

It's a movie, and the people in the media don't get it, nor do old folks. It's inspiring to those who are fighting against the machine.

[jaumen]

You people are really making way too big of a deal out of this. We are using the date because "V" is a revolutionary figure. I'm pretty sure no one is going to claim that Ron Paul supporters advocate blowing up buildings and killing people to get their way... and certainly not based off of this.

[Delivered4000]

How wise is it really to bring to the media's attention that we are comparing Ron Paul to this...

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2006/images/VforVendetta_3.jpg

Just think. That's all I ask.
Because that guy on the left, that's RP, and that guy on the right, that's corruption

[DjLoTi]

Dude, I think you're being overly concerned. I've never watched the movie, but if donating 100$ on Nov. 5th is the plan, then hey, I'm game.

It's not like we're burning buildings, dude.

[hard@work]

Pop culture is popular.

http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/kaiaxford/WindowsLiveWriter/Imbaaaaack_D1AE/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-The-Terminator_thumb.jpg

[CasualApathy]

Can you people get over it already? The forum has spoken. 70% in favor of the idea.

I fart in your general direction.

[constituent]

It's inspiring to those who are fighting against the machine.

You mean "raging" against the machine?

whatever pays, go for it!

[Mikakaze]

i read the book, love the message, and think it's a great idea. it's an idea that has motivated me as well as many others i'm sure. if you don't like the idea...move along and ignore it. there will be NO blowback from it. we already know ron paul has been associated with the kooks. if some ron paul fans enjoyed v for vendetta and it motivates them to organize something like this, i don't see how it can be pinned against ron paul anymore than ron paul being supported by white supremacists (which is already known).

[ValidusCustodiae]

If we live in an oppressive government we shouldn't beat around the bush when it comes to it.

[jrich4rpaul]

I do like the idea of an organized donation day. i just hope it stays seen as that, and the news reports dont get the chance to spin it, showing violent movie clips in the background and such to make us look more nutty

[constituent]

Pop culture is popular.


Right, wrong or otherwise it is also very powerful.

[KewlRonduderules]

I really don't think that is the message behind the november 5th campaign. Instead, I see it as a message to the establishment that there is an awakening in this country. The movie V is just an idea to support our peaceful message. And the way to send this message is through donations to the Ron Paul campaign.

[Van Damme]

I agree completely. Using a pop culture reference to domestic terrorism as a comparison to Ron Paul's peaceful bid for the Republican nomination does not send the right message. I'm all for a planned donation surge, but lets create our own date and time. Perhaps make it November 10th (or whatever) and call it Liberty Day or something else. If you combine the V for Vendetta comparison and the Ron Paul Revolution signs that are seen everywhere online and on street corners it begins to paint a picture. Of course those who already understand Ron Paul will understand that the reference is benign, however our goal is to recruit NEW supporters. IMO, anything that ties the Ron Paul Revolution to V for Vendetta is not conducive to achieving our goal. My simple question is, why risk this dangerous association for a fund raiser that is not guaranteed to generate any substantial amount of donations.

[ValidusCustodiae]

I do like the idea of an organized donation day. i just hope it stays seen as that, and the news reports dont get the chance to spin it, showing violent movie clips in the background and such to make us look more nutty

Hell, if it would get more people to watch V for Vendetta, let them show the clips! It's a damn good movie and WORTH SEEING for anyone who believes in FREEDOM!

[NinjaPirate]

It's just a movie, Focker.

[jrich4rpaul]

I agree completely. Using a pop culture reference to domestic terrorism as a comparison to Ron Paul's peaceful bid for the Republican nomination does not send the right message. I'm all for a planned donation surge, but lets create our own date and time. Perhaps make it November 10th (or whatever) and call it Liberty Day or something else. If you combine the V for Vendetta comparison and the Ron Paul Revolution signs that are seen everywhere online and on street corners it begins to paint a message. Of course those who already understand Ron Paul will understand that the reference is benign, however our goal is to recruit NEW supporters. IMO, anything that ties the Ron Paul Revolution to V for Vendetta is not conducive to achieving our goal.

thats pretty much it

[Ridiculous]

Because that guy on the left, that's RP, and that guy on the right, that's corruption

You are living in a fucking fantasy world. Get real. Grow up.

[Brinck Slattery]

well a message is a very malleable thing, and if there's one thing to learn from postmodernism it's that the intended message of a work or event has nothing to do with the way it's perceived by others. So whatever, enjoy the bubble where people think it's ok to compare a presidential candidate to a violent, autocratic terrorist who goes on a revenge killing spree.

And I like the movie! It's just not the framework most people are operating in.

[kylejack]

That poor dear fictional character you seem so concerned about:


He gathered a select few like-minded politicians into his inner circle, and then exploited the poverty, chaos, and panic that followed a worldwide nuclear war to seize power. Once in control, he banned all art and literature that conflicted with the views of the party, criminalized political dissent, and put Jews, Arabs, Quakers, Pakistanis and [[ ]]s into concentration camps.

[DjLoTi]

Dude, you're using preemptive approach to this, and using fear to promote it. I just don't like your approach, and this thread annoys me.

People are going to do what they want to do, and you can't stop them. So, let it happen, we'll see what happens, but so far it looks like Ron is getting a big payday on the 5th.

[Ridiculous]

well a message is a very malleable thing, and if there's one thing to learn from postmodernism it's that the intended message of a work or event has nothing to do with the way it's perceived by others. So whatever, enjoy the bubble where people think it's ok to compare a presidential candidate to a violent, autocratic terrorist who goes on a revenge killing spree.

And I like the movie! It's just not the framework most people are operating in.

Agreed, I like the movie too. But is is stupid to associate any candidate with violence or blowing shit up.

[Abobo]

I agree completely. Using a pop culture reference to domestic terrorism as a comparison to Ron Paul's peaceful bid for the Republican nomination does not send the right message.

Domestic terrorist? WTF? Since when is fighting an authoritarian government terrorism? I guess the founders were terrorists and the French resistance to the Nazis were terrorists.

[kylejack]

well a message is a very malleable thing, and if there's one thing to learn from postmodernism it's that the intended message of a work or event has nothing to do with the way it's perceived by others. So whatever, enjoy the bubble where people think it's ok to compare a presidential candidate to a violent, autocratic terrorist who goes on a revenge killing spree.

And I like the movie! It's just not the framework most people are operating in.
Your first sentence shows the futility of trying to micro-manage the message of grassroots fund-raising efforts.

[LibertyEagle]

You people are really making way too big of a deal out of this. We are using the date because "V" is a revolutionary figure. I'm pretty sure no one is going to claim that Ron Paul supporters advocate blowing up buildings and killing people to get their way... and certainly not based off of this.

You're forgetting that this is a rEVOLution. Not, a revolution. Big difference.

[Dave Wood]

Dude, I think you're being overly concerned. I've never watched the movie, but if donating 100$ on Nov. 5th is the plan, then hey, I'm game.

It's not like we're burning buildings, dude.

DJ, do yourself a favor and watch that movie. I watched it for the first time a week ago and I can tell you, its worth the two hours in the chair!:eek:

I finally understood why so many RP fans had all of this V stuff, makes sense.

[kylejack]

Domestic terrorist? WTF? Since when is fighting an authoritarian government terrorism? I guess the founders were terrorists and the French resistance to the Nazis were terrorists.

Stop telling such lies, the founding fathers were not violent revolutionaries. They threw stuffed animals at the British soldiers until they abdicated.

[jrich4rpaul]

Dude, you're using preemptive approach to this, and using fear to promote it. I just don't like your approach, and this thread annoys me.

People are going to do what they want to do, and you can't stop them. So, let it happen, we'll see what happens, but so far it looks like Ron is getting a big payday on the 5th.

I'm just suggesting how this MAY be looked at in the future. If November 5th is Donate to Ron Paul day, then fine, I'll do it. But I just don't like the idea that if it is looked into, it can be related to the movie. Imagine Bill O Reilley having a field day with that one? I can.

That's all I'm saying. Donate on November 5th, just keep the V references low, in my opinion.

[DjLoTi]

Haha thx, I'm more into old cinema (B&W), not much on new cinema.. but I'll check it out :)

[Brinck Slattery]

meh, I've tried my best to show why this is a bad idea. Go ahead, but do not be surprised if it's used against the campaign, whether it achieves its goal or not.

[jaumen]

Seriously guys, there have been about 20 different threads with people saying how they don't like this idea. We get it. Some people don't like it. Other people do. Let the people that do do what they want. When it comes to the movie (I really know nothing about Guy Fawkes, the historical figure) I would think most people see V as a good guy. no one is going to equate this with anything crazy.

[constituent]

Stop telling such lies, the founding fathers were not violent revolutionaries. They threw stuffed animals at the British soldiers until they abdicated.

uhhhh... you forgot flower power and stuff, man.

[kylejack]

Imagine Bill O Reilley having a field day with that one? I can.
The day I let Bill O'Reilly set my agenda is the day I shoot myself in the head.

[Adam Smith]

I'll say it again, even though I said it on the poll thread: I'm doing it. It's a totally fantastic idea.

As someone who's voted Republican since '92, I believe it's time to stop worrying about whether it's going to freak out traditional Republicans. Anybody Republican who would be afraid of V for Vendetta or the Guy Fawkes association wouldn't bother to research the 'why' behind our actions, because they already dislike RP.

[deedles]

I loved the movie and I love the idea and I will be donating 100.00 on the 5th. The very best part of that movie to me is the end when THE PEOPLE come out en masse to take their country back. That was the message to me...

[Adamsa]

Call it, "The second Republican Revolution."

Calling it that will attract a lot of attention and Republican base.

[Van Damme]

People are free to do whatever they please, however I am compelled to push my own belief that it is an idea with the right motives that may backfire. The MSM has been supportive of Ron Paul recently, however it still have misgivings about its supporters, calling them overzealous and sometimes flat out crazy. I would be very cautious about doing anything that might further these misgivings. The goal is to have a donation surge for Ron Paul (lets do it!), but why make it a pop culture reference. The fact that people are donating in support of a movie that supports domestic terrorism will overshadow Ron Paul's message of peace and prosperity through freedom and liberty. I can guarentee that any press that this gets will be negative. The story won't be that Ron Paul supporters raised a bunch of money for their candidate, the story will be that Ron Paul supporters are comparing their candidate to fictional domestic terrorist. I obviously don't believe that, but when has the MSM ever been fair to Ron Paul?

[kylejack]

uhhhh... you forgot flower power and stuff, man.
Give peace a chance! Yeah, in fact I think they stuck flowers onto the end of the British soldiers' bayonets.

[DjLoTi]

Seriously guys, there have been about 20 different threads with people saying how they don't like this idea. We get it.

Yeah, and it's happening anyway, so might as well let the people do what they want to make it as big as possible. lol :) I'll be pitching in :)

[jrich4rpaul]

The day I let Bill O'Reilly set my agenda is the day I shoot myself in the head.

Ohhh my Gooood that's not what I'm saying. I used him as an example of the media in general. The media WILL do what they can to make this LOOK BAD.

I'm donating on November 5th.

Ron Paul shouldn't be related to anybody who shoots and blows up things, PERIOD.

That's my opinion, thanks.

[spivey378]

dumb idea.

[AdamT]

Because that guy on the left, that's RP, and that guy on the right, that's corruption

Exactly. I'm totally down with the Nov 5th idea. The worst that would happen is we generate $10M :)

[kylejack]

People are free to do whatever they please, however I am compelled to push my own belief that it is an idea with the right motives that may backfire. The MSM has been supportive of Ron Paul recently, however it still have misgivings about its supports, calling them overzealous and sometimes flat out crazy. I would be very cautious about doing anything that might further these misgivings. The goal is to have a donation surge for Ron Paul (lets do it!), but why make it a pop culture reference. The fact that people are donating in support of a movie that supports domestic terrorism will overshadow Ron Paul's message of peace and prosperity through freedom and liberty. I can guarentee that any press that this gets will be negative. The story won't be that Ron Paul supports raised a bunch of money for their candidate, the story will be that Ron Paul supports are comparing their candidate to fictional domestic terrorist. I obviously don't believe that, but when has the MSM ever been fair to Ron Paul?

They treat us like shit either way. That being the case, we may as well have the money.

[Taco John]

I'm tired of people trying to discourage us from participating in the November 5th fundraiser... Get over it already.

[kylejack]

Ohhh my Gooood that's not what I'm saying. I used him as an example of the media in general. The media WILL do what they can to make this LOOK BAD.

I'm donating on November 5th.

Ron Paul shouldn't be related to anybody who shoots and blows up things, PERIOD.

That's my opinion, thanks.
Roger that, we have heard your complaint. This thread is ready to be locked up! In before the lock!

[constituent]

I was opposed to it at first, but i'm gunna give ten bucks (more than i can afford) on the fifth just b/c of the b* fits.

[kylejack]

I was opposed to it at first, but i'm gunna give ten bucks (more than i can afford) on the fifth just b/c of the b* fits.
Bless you, my son.

[Ridiculous]

People are free to do whatever they please, however I am compelled to push my own belief that it is an idea with the right motives that may backfire. The MSM has been supportive of Ron Paul recently, however it still have misgivings about its supports, calling them overzealous and sometimes flat out crazy. I would be very cautious about doing anything that might further these misgivings. The goal is to have a donation surge for Ron Paul (lets do it!), but why make it a pop culture reference. The fact that people are donating in support of a movie that supports domestic terrorism will overshadow Ron Paul's message of peace and prosperity through freedom and liberty. I can guarentee that any press that this gets will be negative. The story won't be that Ron Paul supports raised a bunch of money for their candidate, the story will be that Ron Paul supports are comparing their candidate to fictional domestic terrorist. I obviously don't believe that, but when has the MSM ever been fair to Ron Paul?

Exactly.

[jrich4rpaul]

I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.


That's my opinion, end of discussion, that's all I was trying to say. k thanks.

[Taco John]

I also want to point out one thing:

The colonists called the American Revolutionaries crazy. The revolutionaries were in stark minority, but they were a loud and active minority that did revolutionary things like throw tons of tea into the harbor. How do you think the press reacted to that event? It's friggen nuts to throw all that tea into the harbor!

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what the press thinks. They're REPORTING THE NEWS.

Now either get out there on November 5th and MAKE SOME NEWS, or get out of the way of the people WHO ARE.

[r3volution]

dam , i have been wearing this V mask all this time for nothing ?:

[Van Damme]

They treat us like shit either way. That being the case, we may as well have the money.

It is no longer May where any press is good press. The media will come around to the manner in which RP's supporters act, if they act responsibly.

Also, why would this thread be locked? This is a lively discussion, I don't think I have seen any profanity or flaming. Oh well.

[kylejack]

Exactly.

Its happening. Obviously nobody's changing sides on this issue, so stop standing in the way of progress. Its happening. Its planned. Its a done deal. You can't stop this kind of freight train.

[KewlRonduderules]

Agreed, I like the movie too. But is is stupid to associate any candidate with violence or blowing shit up.

I agree. However, I really do not think the idea is about the violence or a vendetta. I think instead it is about people becoming aware of the B.S. we are fed everyday by media, corporations, politicians, and the rest of the government. We want our freedom from government and the B.S. bureaucracy.

Remember at the end of the movie when all those people had the masks and they removed them? It was a message that you did not have to hide yourself behind a mask anymore. You could be free. On the other hand, V, he could never show his face. He knew he could never be totally free but could fight for it and give it to others by sacrificing himself.

If you watch the movie just for the violence, you are seeing it from a naive and shallow perspective.

I like to think I am sacrificing my own income and volunteer services so that future generations of Americans don't have to live in a police state.

[Ridiculous]

They treat us like shit either way. That being the case, we may as well have the money.

Just do it without the stupid V reference. I hope Paul takes in a billion dollars every day. Why risk associating him with something a lot of people might view as a negative?

[kylejack]

It is no longer May where any press is good press. The media will come around to the manner in which RP's supporters act, if they act responsibly.
I suspect you haven't seen the name recognition polling, if you believe that. Name recognition remains our number one foe, far more dangerous than a stunt done by grassroots supporters.

[cjhowe]

I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.


That's my opinion, end of discussion, that's all I was trying to say. k thanks.

Are you suggesting...Are you suggesting that we take our marching orders from the main stream media? ;)

[American]

Thats it lets micro manage this issue into something HUGE!!!!

[jrich4rpaul]

Are you suggesting...Are you suggesting that we take our marching orders from the main stream media? ;)

*points pen*

NO!

[Brinck Slattery]

Throwing tea overboard isn't blowing up f-ing Parliament and murdering people. In fact, it's an act that recognized by most Americans as just and right. But There are different degrees of extremism. It's nice to think that what the media says doesn't matter, but it does. They have no actual ammunition at the moment because, as of yet, Ron Paul supporters haven't fetishized a comic book character known for violent retribution. It's no good, I'll say nothing further on this issue, but it's no good.

Not to mention the fact that people are holding on to money that they could be donating TODAY so they can donate on Nov. 5. The campaign needs funds, not promises of funds in a few weeks.

[kylejack]

Just do it without the stupid V reference. I hope Paul takes in a billion dollars every day. Why risk associating him with something a lot of people might view as a negative?

There are about a dozen V videos already published. You want to stop it? YOU go convince all those video producers. I think its a fantastic idea, and I'm not going to do your work for you. Bloviating in a forum trying to convince people who obviously aren't the slightest bit receptive to your arguments is futility.

[Ridiculous]

I agree. However, I really do not think the idea is about the violence or a vendetta. I think instead it is about people becoming aware of the B.S. we are fed everyday by media, corporations, politicians, and the rest of the government. We want our freedom from government and the B.S. bureaucracy.

Remember at the end of the movie when all those people had the masks and they removed them? It was a message that you did not have to hide yourself behind a mask anymore. You could be free. On the other hand, V, he could never show his face. He knew he could never be totally free but could fight for it and give it to others by sacrificing himself.

If you watch the movie just for the violence, you are seeing it from a naive and shallow perspective.

I like to think I am sacrificing my own income and volunteer services so that future generations of Americans don't have to live in a police state.


People who aren't very familiar with the movie aren't going to draw the distinction between the ideals of the movie and its violence.

[Van Damme]

I suspect you haven't seen the name recognition polling, if you believe that. Name recognition remains our number one foe, far more dangerous than a stunt done by grassroots supporters.

Name recognition will mean nothing if this event is very successful and the MSM portrays it in a negative light. I just hope that we don't see a bunch of photoshop pictures of RP with a V mask.

[constituent]

^good idea (not really).

[kylejack]

You guys are cowering in fear of the mainstream media. We've brought them to their knees on numerous occasions and we can do it again.

[Van Damme]

There are about a dozen V videos already published. You want to stop it? YOU go convince all those video producers. I think its a fantastic idea, and I'm not going to do your work for you. Bloviating in a forum trying to convince people who obviously aren't the slightest bit receptive to your arguments is futility.

You, a Ron Paul supporter, would discourage someone from a goal because it seems futile to pursue it?

[Taco John]

Throwing tea overboard isn't blowing up f-ing Parliament and murdering people. In fact, it's an act that recognized by most Americans as just and right. But There are different degrees of extremism. It's nice to think that what the media says doesn't matter, but it does. They have no actual ammunition at the moment because, as of yet, Ron Paul supporters haven't fetishized a goddamn comic book character known for violent retribution. It's no good, I'll say nothing further on this issue, but it's no good.

Not to mention the fact that people are holding on to money that they could be donating TODAY so they can donate on Nov. 5. The campaign needs funds, not promises of funds in a few weeks.



Nobody is blowing up any buildings...

WE'RE DONATING MONEY!

Does it get any more peaceful than that? The date is just a cultural reference going back hundreds of years.

They got this one right at LewRockwell:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/016209.html

[jrich4rpaul]

"Ron Paul takes his marching orders from Al-Qaeda" and "Anti-Vendetta-recognition people take their marching orders from the media"... kind of the same idea, both false.

[kylejack]

You, a Ron Paul supporter, would discourage someone from a goal because it seems futile to pursue it?
Did you just imply that Ron Paul is a futile cause? Is that what you just did?

[Van Damme]

Did you just imply that Ron Paul is a futile cause? Is that what you just did?

No I compared you to the people that tell me day in and day out that supporting Ron Paul is futile and that he has no chance of winning the nomination. Trying to make people realize that Ron Paul is not a futile cause and then pooh-poohing on someone else's cause that you deem to be futile sounds a bit wrong to me.

[kylejack]

No I compared you to the people that tell me day in and day out that supporting Ron Paul is futile and that he has no chance of winning the nomination. Trying to make people realize that Ron Paul is not a futile cause and then pooh-poohing on someone else's cause that you deem to be futile sounds a bit wrong to me.

Oh. Well then battle on Keyboard Warrior. Battle on.

And maybe you could go pass out some slimjims later.

[Shink]

Most of the time, when people bring up these "oh no" things they think 'the media' is going to jump all over, they're snitching on a crime nobody else saw, so to speak. It's just a fundraising push.

[kylejack]

Most of the time, when people bring up these "oh no" things they think 'the media' is going to jump all over, they're snitching on a crime nobody else saw, so to speak. It's just a fundraising push.

I remember all the people scared about the consequences of holding a rally next door to the Tax Forum in Iowa. HUGE success.

[Ridiculous]

Nobody is blowing up any buildings...




No shit, but you are making an associating with blowing up shit and and a presidential campaign. Bad idea.

[DjLoTi]

You people who are opposed arn't going to stop the people who are for it.

[kylejack]

No shit, but you are making an associating with blowing up shit and and a presidential campaign. Bad idea.
Ron Paul frequently references men who shot government agents.

[Van Damme]

Is there any way of asking the campaign about this? If they gave the OK, I would willingly shut-up.

[DjLoTi]

Is there any way of asking the campaign about this? If they gave the OK, I would willingly shut-up.

lol.... uhhh.... no

[FrankRep]

Is there any way of asking the campaign about this? If they gave the OK, I would willingly shut-up.

They would be OK with you donating $100 on Nov 5.

:rolleyes:

[mannycp]

http://www.thisnovember5th.com/
SIGN UP

[kylejack]

Is there any way of asking the campaign about this? If they gave the OK, I would willingly shut-up.

Don't be daft. We don't involve the campaign in our own grassroots activities.

[aravoth]

Not sure why this 5th of november thing matters at all. Should they do it on the fourth instead? How about the sixth? Of all the things to be agrueing about guys, come on. At this moment in time there are somewhere around 4,653 things that piss me off so badly that my nose hair is turning grey. And donation dates haven't even made the list....yet. Argue about how we're going to get RP 12 million this quarter, seems like the November the fith people are already way ahead of the naysayers in that department.

In short, as I have always said, with a de-centralized grassroots effort, do what you can for the cause, in your own way. No one on this forum should be under any delusions that they could control the actions of a stalwart few, or many. Just do your thing, do it tastefully, do the best you can, and do it often.

[Ridiculous]

Ron Paul frequently references men who shot government agents.

Are you referencing the American Revolution? Violent revolutionaries are not looked upon highly in 2007 by American voters. American's are also pretty unfamiliar with their own history in general. If they weren't we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

[Van Damme]

They would be OK with you donating $100 on Nov 5.

:rolleyes:

Maybe I don't understand campaign finance law (I am a Business student after all), would it be illegal for the official campaign to suggest that a grass-roots fundraiser not have a V for Vendetta theme?

[Ridiculous]

Just do your thing, do it tastefully, do the best you can, and do it often.

Associating Ron Paul with some comic book character you idolize, who murders as a means to and end, is pretty fucking tasteless.

[aravoth]

Associating Ron Paul with some comic book character you idolize, who murders as a means to and end, is pretty fucking tasteless.

Dude, it's a movie, not Osama Bin Ladens birthday, that would be fucking tasteless.

[kylejack]

Are you referencing the American Revolution? Violent revolutionaries are not looked upon highly in 2007 by American voters. American's are also pretty unfamiliar with their own history in general. If they weren't we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.
The people against this generally tend to rely on the stupidity of the individual to support their argument. Odd, because normally this leads people to socialism rather than libertarianism. To be a libertarian, you have to either believe that people are capable of a great deal more than what is currently asked of them, or you just have to be too cruel to care.

[Ridiculous]

Maybe I don't understand campaign finance law (I am a Business student after all), would it be illegal for the official campaign to suggest that a grass-roots fundraiser not have a V for Vendetta theme?

Actually, unless you are parodying V for Vendetta, which you really aren't, you are infringing on copyright laws.

Technically it would be no different that some PAC for Rudy putting Spiderman in their web ad without Marvel's permission.

[FrankRep]

Maybe I don't understand campaign finance law (I am a Business student after all), would it be illegal for the official campaign to suggest that a grass-roots fundraiser not have a V for Vendetta theme?

This is completely grassroots. This is OUR idea not the official campaigns.

[belian78]

Associating Ron Paul with some comic book character you idolize, who murders as a means to and end, is pretty fucking tasteless.

R,

I've seen you freak out about the wierdest things here... Calm down, it's fundraising.

[kylejack]

Not sure why this 5th of november thing matters at all. Should they do it on the fourth instead? How about the sixth? Of all the things to be agrueing about guys, come on. At this moment in time there are somewhere around 4,653 things that piss me off so badly that my nose hair is turning grey. And donation dates haven't even made the list....yet. Argue about how we're going to get RP 12 million this quarter, seems like the November the fith people are already way ahead of the naysayers in that department.

In short, as I have always said, with a de-centralized grassroots effort, do what you can for the cause, in your own way. No one on this forum should be under any delusions that they could control the actions of a stalwart few, or many. Just do your thing, do it tastefully, do the best you can, and do it often.

So sayith His Honor, Aravoth. And so shall it be done. Hear hear!

[jrich4rpaul]

Donate lots, and donate often. How bout we just do that :)

[Ridiculous]

The people against this generally tend to rely on the stupidity of the individual to support their argument. Odd, because normally this leads people to socialism rather than libertarianism. To be a libertarian, you have to either believe that people are capable of a great deal more than what is currently asked of them, or you just have to be too cruel to care.

It's not so much that I think people are stupid. It is that I have a background in marketing, whereas, most of the grassroots people do not. I know what kinds of things work and why they work. Some ideas, while well intentioned, are not very smart.

[Van Damme]

aravoth your avatar (I think) is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance logo. Heh how about a Ron Paul to Obi Won reference? I find that mental picture entertaining.

[KewlRonduderules]

Go with the November 5th idea! It works in my opinion.

[aravoth]

aravoth your avatar (I think) is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance logo. Heh how about a Ron Paul to Obi Won reference? I find that mental picture entertaining.

Ya know, I thought about that once. Imposing ron pauls face on obi-wan, and rudy's on Anakin, and do the episode three final battle. Then do it again, with RP's face on Yoda, and hillary's on the emporer, and do the final battle between them. It would be kinda funny I think.

[kylejack]

It's not so much that I think people are stupid. It is that I have a background in marketing, whereas, most of the grassroots people do not. I know what kinds of things work and why they work. Some ideas, while well intentioned, are not very smart.
What marketing promotions have you designed so far for the grassroots campaign? I'd like to hear some of your ideas.

[Brinck Slattery]

Constructive comment here - replace V with Gandalf. Ron Paul totally looks like Gandalf, and Gandalf creates warm and fuzzies instead of cold and pricklies. Fight the Balrog that is ever-expanding government!

[jb4ronpaul]

I plan to donate but I don't know the movie or what it is about. However Dec 16 is the date of the Boston Tea Party. Everyone knows what that is and will rally around that. We should do something really big that day.

[Van Damme]

Ya know, I thought about that once. Imposing ron pauls face on obi-wan, and rudy's on Anakin, and do the episode three final battle. Then do it again, with RP's face on Yoda, and hillary's on the emporer, and do the final battle between them. It would be kinda funny I think.

I would agree.

[BIG_J]

OMG wez Dont want 2 be assocaited wit da Rebels!

[Taco John]

It's not so much that I think people are stupid. It is that I have a background in marketing, whereas, most of the grassroots people do not. I know what kinds of things work and why they work. Some ideas, while well intentioned, are not very smart.


I work in marketing too, and I wholly disagree with your assessment. This is the kind of marketing that you can't buy. A cultural reference, a catchy phrase (remember, remember the 5th of november) and a tie in to a revolutionary.

Whether you like it or not, this is already being branded "The Ron Paul Revolution." You're not going to be able to soften that this late in the game. You might as well try re-branding McDonalds.

[kylejack]

aravoth your avatar (I think) is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance logo. Heh how about a Ron Paul to Obi Won reference? I find that mental picture entertaining.

In fact Aravoth, change your avatar. The Rebel Alliance was a group of violent domestic terrorists fighting the government. They blew up 2 Death Stars, for Christ's sake, far more than a mere Parliament building! You are associating those violent rebels with Ron Paul by using that avatar, and it must come down now!

[richard1984]

You're forgetting that this is a rEVOLution. Not, a revolution. Big difference.

I think that's a good point/observation and important to remember (especially if the media does try to spin this).


Stop telling such lies, the founding fathers were not violent revolutionaries. They threw stuffed animals at the British soldiers until they abdicated.

And I thought this was funny! :D Yeah. Their basic strategy was "Don't lose," so they usually shot a little bit and ran away.
"Cause he who fight and run away live to fight another day" (from Bob Marley's song "The Heathen").
It's a great strategy for a truly defensive war!

[FrankRep]

Constructive comment here - replace V with Gandalf. Ron Paul totally looks like Gandalf, and Gandalf creates warm and fuzzies instead of cold and pricklies. Fight the Balrog that is ever-expanding government!

Maybe next time. The V theme is most effective right now.

[constituent]

I plan to donate but I don't know the movie or what it is about. However Dec 16 is the date of the Boston Tea Party. Everyone knows what that is and will rally around that. We should do something really big that day.

yea... everyone goes "all in."

[wfd40]

Ya know, I thought about that once. Imposing ron pauls face on obi-wan, and rudy's on Anakin, and do the episode three final battle. Then do it again, with RP's face on Yoda, and hillary's on the emporer, and do the final battle between them. It would be kinda funny I think.

I think its safe to say that that would be huge on the internets =)

also, any news on a new video??

[Van Damme]

In fact Aravoth, change your avatar. The Rebel Alliance was a group of violent domestic terrorists fighting the government. They blew up 2 Death Stars, for Christ's sake, far more than a mere Parliament building! You are associating those violent rebels with Ron Paul by using that avatar, and it must come down now!

V for Vendetta and the Star Wars series do not have the same tone at all. There is a clearly defined good and evil in the Star Wars series.

[reduen]

yea... everyone goes "all in."

Cool, let's do it once on November 5th and then again on December 16th!

$100 both times....:)

[BIG_J]

There is also a clearly defined good and in evil in V for Vendetta.

[FrankRep]

How is the Boston Tea Party any better or worse than V for Vendetta? Both promote freedom and overcoming oppression.

I'll donate $100 on both days.

[kylejack]

V for Vendetta and the Star Wars series do not have the same tone at all. There is a clearly defined good and evil in the Star Wars series.
I think you probably never saw V for Vendetta. And think of all those innocent government contractors who were just cleaning out toilets on the Death Star.

[constituent]

How is the Boston Tea Party any better or worse than V for Vendetta? Both promote freedom and overcoming oppression.

I'll donate $100 on both days.

Better. Universal American appeal. That's like a Tommy Hilfiger/Abercrombie/American Eagle, The Sandlot, Born in the USA
McDonalds and all of that combined kinda thing right there.

That's like having a Philly Rally at Constitution Hall.

[Ridiculous]

Every time an undecided voter sees a Ron Paul message, you want it to be a positive impression. Some ideas, not just this one, while good for certain people, are going to turn off others. If you are going to put your time and money into something that promotes Ron Paul and raises money for him, make it appeal to as many people as possible. A lot of grassroots people come up with an idea that they think is good and they only think about the positives, and don't consider the negatives. Then, when someone points out the negatives they are to pompous and arrogant to admit that maybe their idea will have a negative impact. For every three people that they attract they might make ten think that Ron Paul and his supporters wear tin foil hats.

Right now the Revolution in the branding of "Ron Paul Revolution", is not a negative thing. I am talking about just the meaning behind the word not the movement, is no different in use than say Republican Revolution. I'm talking about when someone uniformed hears the words. But when you start tying"Revolution" to stuff like V for Vendetta, Revolution can have a very negative connotation as in violent, anarchy, Che Guavarra etc to people who are uninformed (not nessisarily stupid people). I mean the V on the movie poster is pretty much an upside down Anarchy "A". To your average American anarchy isn't really a good thing. And that V is the first thing people see in the vid for the 5th of november. I'm saying you have to be careful about the impressions that you are giving.

I don't want to see photo shops of Ron Paul wearing a V Mask or people thinking we are going to blow up congress if our guy doesn't win.... Hey, maybe it will come to that one day, but that isn't the way to sell a campaign.

[Eric21ND]

I never watched the film but I'm totally down with anything that motivates people to donate.

[reduen]

How wise is it really to bring to the media's attention that we are comparing Ron Paul to this...

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2006/images/VforVendetta_3.jpg


I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.


Hmmm, and they called me a Troll! :confused:

[aravoth]

In fact Aravoth, change your avatar. The Rebel Alliance was a group of violent domestic terrorists fighting the government. They blew up 2 Death Stars, for Christ's sake, far more than a mere Parliament building! You are associating those violent rebels with Ron Paul by using that avatar, and it must come down now!

Nonsense! The Rebel alliance are libertarians. Pure and simple. They wanted small goverment, low taxes, and free markets. I mean, look at what the empire did. Imposed a huge goverment, fought an undeclared war and used that war to erode cival liberties within the old republic. They raised taxes, alot. Star Destroyers can't be cheap ya know. And I bet the company that built the Death Star with taxpayer money got it on a no-bid contract.

[Van Damme]

I think you probably never saw V for Vendetta. And think of all those innocent government contractors who were just cleaning out toilets on the Death Star.

In V for Vendetta, the character V acts as a necessary evil to fight an oppressive government. This movie is darker and more graphic. It shows killing in a much more graphic way. Star wars has none such graphic killing.

Star Wars and V for Vendetta do not send the same message at all.

[kylejack]

Nonsense! The Rebel alliance are libertarians. Pure and simple. They wanted small goverment, low taxes, and free markets. I mean, look at what the empire did. Imposed a huge goverment, fought an undeclared war and used that war to erode cival liberties within the old republic. They raised taxes, alot. Star Destroyers can't be cheap ya know. And I bet the company that built the Death Star with taxpayer money got it on a no-bid contract.

Doesn't matter, fighting bad government is not noble and it will hurt the campaign! The media will talk about your horribly offensive avatar, and the username VanDamme, which may be a reference to the violent film actor. The Ron Paul campaign must be all puppies and soft blankets!

[kylejack]

In V for Vendetta, the character V acts as a necessary evil to fight an oppressive government. This movie is darker and more graphic. It shows killing in a much more graphic way. Star wars has none such graphic killing.

Star Wars and V for Vendetta do not send the same message at all.
So hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people dying in the destruction of a government structure (the Deathstar) is less morally offensive to you than the killing of perhaps 25 people, many of whom engaged in genocide, running of concentration camps, and medical experimentation on prisoners? Wow, you really personify that Stalin quote: A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

[mannycp]

http://www.thisnovember5th.com/
SIGN UP

[Original_Intent]

Both sides just need to STFU on this topic. Those that are for it are going to do it so get over it.

Teach them a lessen and outraise them on Oct 30th and show them how stupid their Nov 5 idea is.

[jjschless]

How wise is it really to bring to the media's attention that we are comparing Ron Paul to this...

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2006/images/VforVendetta_3.jpg


I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.

So you start a thread focused on not comparing the two by showing that picture and then talking about Dr. Paul.

Think! Apparently you didn't.

[Van Damme]

So hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people dying in the destruction of a government structure (the Deathstar) is less morally offensive to you than the killing of perhaps 25 people, many of whom engaged in genocide, running of concentration camps, and medical experimentation on prisoners? Wow, you really personify that Stalin quote: A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

Nonsense. You are completely missing the point. If you use pop culture references it is essential to understand them at face value, because that is how they are taken by most people. As a pop culture reference, V for Vendetta is a violent film about a freedom fighter that uses domestic terrorism to bring about change and Star Wars is a science fiction film portraying the restoration of a republic in the face of tyrannical oppression. Comparing RP to V for Vendetta vs. comparing RP to Obi Won would not send that same message at all. The two pop culture references have completely different meanings to most people. With that said, I consider it an insult for my comments about the perception of movies to be compared to Joseph Stalin's comments about genocide.

[Ridiculous]

Do you realize how immature it is to liken Ron Paul to some violent comic book hero you like? Give the man some dignity. He is so much bigger than that.

[constituent]

Nonsense. You are completely missing the point. If you use pop culture references it is essential to understand them at face value, because that is how they are taken by most people. As a pop culture reference, V for Vendetta is a violent film about a freedom fighter that uses domestic terrorism to bring about change and Star Wars is a science fiction film portraying the restoration of a republic in the face of tyrannical oppression. Comparing RP to V for Vendetta vs. comparing RP to Obi Won would not send that same message at all. The two pop culture references have completely different meanings to most people. With that said, I consider it an insult for my comments about the perception of movies to be compared to Joseph Stalin's comments about genocide.

I'm with you on this, but the solution if you are concerned about "blowback" is to prepare yourself a nice arguement for use on your blog or in conversation or whatever. You won't be able to stop it, in fact you might be able to capitalize on it if you put your brain to it long enough.

I think perhaps you should run w/ your Obi Won thing if that would suit you better. Certainly there are many here who would help.

[Danny Molina]

Do you realize how immature it is to liken Ron Paul to some violent comic book hero you like? Give the man some dignity. He is so much bigger than that.

You sir are ridiculous.

[Van Damme]

I'm with you on this, but the solution if you are concerned about "blowback" is to prepare yourself a nice arguement for use on your blog or in conversation or whatever. You won't be able to stop it, in fact you might be able to capitalize on it if you put your brain to it long enough.

I think perhaps you should run w/ you Obi Won thing if that would suit you better. Certainly there are many here who would help.

Currently I am just trying to defend myself from personal attacks. The Obi Won comparison was simply used as a contrast, I myself do not think it would be very effective.

[constituent]

Currently I am just trying to defend myself from personal attacks.

Oh man, welcome to the forums. Don't waste time defending yourself. I'm sorry, but the personal attacks are unceasing around here. If you learn how to approach/ignore it you'll find that you can enjoy yourself quite well.


It's all in the approach.

[Van Damme]

Oh man, welcome to the forums. Don't waste time defending yourself. I'm sorry, but the personal attacks are unceasing around here. If you learn how to approach/ignore it you'll find that you can enjoy yourself quite well.


It's all in the approach.

I got compared to Joseph Stalin on my 12th post.

[FrankRep]

Van Damme,

I'm not attacking you. I may not agree with your worries, but I'm not against you though.

[constituent]

I got compared to Joseph Stalin on my 12th post.

kinda silly huh? don't sweat it.

[Van Damme]

Well, I have accounting homework to do before my U of M Ron Paul meeting tonight. We had a nice rally the past week as I'm sure you heard.

[kylejack]

Nonsense. You are completely missing the point. If you use pop culture references it is essential to understand them at face value, because that is how they are taken by most people. As a pop culture reference, V for Vendetta is a violent film about a freedom fighter that uses domestic terrorism to bring about change and Star Wars is a science fiction film portraying the restoration of a republic in the face of tyrannical oppression.

....using violent terrorist-like means. You have utterly failed to demonstrate how V engages in domestic terrorism while the Rebel Alliance does not. I'll cite various instances:

1) Luke and the Rebel Alliance make an assault on the Death Star, knowing that their attack on the exhaust port will completely destroy it, killing anyone who was on board.


The first Death Star has a crew of 265,675, as well as 52,276 gunners, 607,360 troops, 30,984 stormtroopers, 42,782 ship support staff, and 180,216 pilots and support crew.

That's 1,179,293 people that Luke and his team were killing. It was around 150 kilometers in diameter, so surely they knew how many lives were on the line.

2) They destroyed the second Death Star, an even bigger piece of government property, while it was under construction. Think of all those innocent government contractors who weren't even working for the government in a direct sense. Plumbers, welders...a bunch of low level workers. This time they flew their fighters into the heart of the structure, not dissimilar to the tactics of the September 11th terrorists.

3) Luke Skywalker confronts his father and converts him to his rebellious terrorist cause. Then Luke and his father assassinate the Emperor, the leader of the government.

Explain how this differs from V.

Both have been wronged by the government
Both fight the government
Both kill
Both take out the leader of the government
Both destroy government infrastructure

The only difference is that the Rebel Alliance was doing it on a much larger scale with a lot more lives hanging in the balance.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Okay, I wasn't planning on participating in the Nov. 5th thing because money is so tight for me, but just because of this tread I HAVE SIGNED UP!

Why is it every time I turn around, someone is saying "Don't promote Ron Paul that way"? Someone wants to try to spread the message or raise funds for Ron Paul, and you take issue with their methods? Don't try to jump on me and say this is copyright infringement, because I'm just going to come back and ask you if you ever passed along a Ron Paul video that contained data without permission of that data's creators.

Anyway, one of the fundamental principles of free society and free *speech* is that a person should be able to say what they want. You put enough trust in the individual that they can judge right and wrong and decide if they agree with the speaker. It's perfectly ok, I think, for you to disagree with this initiative and to say so. However, I do think it is sort of hypocritical to tell fellow libertarians not to support the same candidate that you do in the manner of their choosing. We all have to put enough faith in the democratic process that people will make the right decisions based upon ALL the information at hand, and that's where we come in. Informing is paramount to me, and I do a number of ways, but I am always striving to do it. Let O'Reilly try to smear us. It will only get us more attention and make him seem like more of an ass if that is even possible. We are not a bunch of anarchists, my god, we are advocating THE CONSTITUTION!

IF we can't stand scrutiny we won't make it, because THERE WILL BE SCRUTINY!

=)

[kylejack]

I got compared to Joseph Stalin on my 12th post.

No you didn't. You got compared to one of his citizens.

[FrankRep]

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

– Declaration of Independence, 1776

Oh NO! The Constitution is promoting a violent idea.

".. to throw off such Government .." Guess what that means?


.

[kylejack]

– Declaration of Independence, 1776

Oh NO! The Constitution is promoting a violent idea.

:p

[Ridiculous]

Don't try to jump on me and say this is copyright infringement, because I'm just going to come back and ask you if you ever passed along a Ron Paul video that contained data without permission of that data's creators.

Anyway, one of the fundamental principles of free society and free *speech* is that a person should be able to say what they want. You put enough trust in the individual that they can judge right and wrong and decide if they agree with the speaker. It's perfectly ok, I think, for you to disagree with this initiative and to say so. However, I do think it is sort of hypocritical to tell fellow libertarians not to support the same candidate that you do in the manner of their choosing.



As far as the copyright thing, using news clips is considered fair use, The Daily Show does it every day. Using a copyrighted character for your own gain is copyright infringement. I don't expect them to get a cease and desist letter, I am just stating fact.

And, telling people not to support Ron Paul in a certain way is not a free speech issue, nor is it hypocritical. They have a right to do what they want, but I have a right to tell them I think they shouldn't do it because, while well intentioned, is pretty damn stupid.

[unklejman]

aravoth your avatar (I think) is the Star Wars Rebel Alliance logo. Heh how about a Ron Paul to Obi Won reference? I find that mental picture entertaining.

Allow me to flesh it out:

http://www.jreydesign.com/misc/forumimages/jedipaul.jpg


:D :D :D

[kylejack]

Allow me to flesh it out:

http://www.jreydesign.com/misc/forumimages/jedipaul.jpg


:D :D :D

This is epic.

[kylejack]

Requesting an Emperor Giuliani, please.

[Ridiculous]

So hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people dying in the destruction of a government structure (the Deathstar) is less morally offensive to you than the killing of perhaps 25 people, many of whom engaged in genocide, running of concentration camps, and medical experimentation on prisoners? Wow, you really personify that Stalin quote: A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

As far as a pop culture reference, Star Wars is pretty much viewed as a family movie, something you can take your kids to. V for Vendetta is not. Regardless of how many people got killed on the Death Star.

The Obi Wan thing isn't really bad. It is all about perception...

[kylejack]

As far as a pop culture reference, Star Wars is pretty much viewed as a family movie, something you can take your kids to. V for Vendetta is not. Regardless of how many people got killed on the Death Star.

The Obi Wan thing isn't really bad. It is all about perception...
Does not address my arguments. "is pretty much viewed as" is specious and un-specific.

[Original_Intent]

OK, the "Jedi Paul" photochop validated this thread's existense.

[Bruehound]

Amen to the OP.

It's not that i think it is really a negative or harmful but I just think that movie was for dorks.

[Ridiculous]

Does not address my arguments. "is pretty much viewed as" is specious and un-specific.


Now you are just arguing semantics.

I mean, MOST people would take young kids to Star Wars, whereas MOST parents would not take kids to V for Vendetta. (although some parents were upset that the last Star Wars was much more violent than the rest, but that is besides the point).

Therefore, Starwars is a much better pop culture reference. Starwars has the perception of being an all american sci-fi good vs. bad movie. V doesn't have that perception.

[Van Damme]

Does not address my arguments. "is pretty much viewed as" is specious and un-specific.

Star Wars is rated PG for sci-fi violence and some mild language. V for Vendetta is rated R for strong violence and some language. Star Wars is a family movie, V for Vendetta is for adults. That is what I think his argument was.

Edit: I like the Obi Won picture.

Edit: This discussion is becoming unproductive.

[kylejack]

Edit: This discussion is becoming unproductive.
It always was, since the very beginning, but I wouldn't deter you from your futile cause. Continue.

[mannycp]

www.thisnovember5th.com SIGN UP!!!!!!!
10/17/07 39 subscribers
10/18/07 1,415 subscribers at 6:15pm EST
By Nov.5 we should have at least 15,000 subscribers.
15,000 * 100 = 1,500,000 AT LEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aravoth]

Edit: I like the Obi Won picture.

Have you seen the new transformers movie? I was also thinking about something like, "Optimus Paul" Since both Optimus Prime and Ron Paul are noble. Rudy could be Megatron, since they are both blatenty evil. Hillary could be starscream, since they are both bitches and have a whiney voice complete with a sinister laugh. Fred Thompson could be Barricade. Romney could be Blackout. Whoever RP picks for his VP could be Ironhide.

Bradley in DC would be Ratchet, Djloti would be Jazz, The rest of you can fight over bumblebee. But I'm Grimlock, I love Grimlock.

[G-khan]

I will be donating 100 on the 5th of November!

[McDermit]

dumb movie, dumb date, dumb idea.

[FrankRep]

dumb movie, dumb date, dumb idea.

People are donating. That's the important thing.

[terlinguatx]

...

[McDermit]

why not do it so we use those donations to help with our October goal? If the point is to get donations, why pick some dumb arbitrary date... Do it for October.

[davidhperry]

www.thisnovember5th.com SIGN UP!!!!!!!
10/17/07 39 subscribers
10/18/07 1,415 subscribers at 6:15pm EST
By Nov.5 we should have at least 15,000 subscribers.
15,000 * 100 = 1,500,000 AT LEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've signed up and I'll be donating. However, I think they should swap the V clip at the bottom out with one (or two) of aravoth's or the "new hope" one that's going around. No offense to whoever made it, but I don't think it's particularly compelling. Add to that it's typos, the movie tie-in and the bikini girl with the flag and it comes across pretty sophomoric. One of the critiques of the Ron Paul campaign is that it's just a bunch of 19 year-old dudes with blogs and this video has the potential to add fuel to that.

The very compelling aspect is that people will be motivated to donate together, and hopefully the net effect of that is that it'll generate more donation instead of sucking money away from the prior days. Just please ditch the video for another one that's more broadly accessible.

[sandersondavis]

Exactly. I'm totally down with the Nov 5th idea. The worst that would happen is we generate $10M :)

No that's the best that can possible happen, IMHO.

I liked the movie. I agree with you on the message that you want to send.
I am worried about the message others might take away from this.
I think any message we send needs to be clear and unambiguous.

I wish you luck and I hope I am 180 degrees out of sync.

[Kacela]

I'm in for the 5th. I'm associating the November 5th date with the "Glorious Revolution" of 1688 - an almost "bloodless revolution that brought on some serious changes towards a democracy, where never again a monarchy there would hold absolute power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution

[KewlRonduderules]

I plan to donate but I don't know the movie or what it is about. However Dec 16 is the date of the Boston Tea Party. Everyone knows what that is and will rally around that. We should do something really big that day.


This is actually a good idea. I think this would work well.

:)

[partypooper]

Can you people get over it already? The forum has spoken. 70% in favor of the idea.

70% of the forum = .5% of the population.

[kylejack]

70% of the forum = .5% of the population.

We're mostly seeking money from Ron Paul supporters, not random schmucks.

[KingTheoden]

I don't think the V comparison will hurt the campaign. Personally, I would not stress V's methods of confronting a bad government, but rather just use the date as a rally point.

For people I know who have yet to contribute, I'm recommending November 5th as the day to hit it hard.

[Van Damme]

Have you seen the new transformers movie? I was also thinking about something like, "Optimus Paul" Since both Optimus Prime and Ron Paul are noble. Rudy could be Megatron, since they are both blatenty evil. Hillary could be starscream, since they are both bitches and have a whiney voice complete with a sinister laugh. Fred Thompson could be Barricade. Romney could be Blackout. Whoever RP picks for his VP could be Ironhide.

Bradley in DC would be Ratchet, Djloti would be Jazz, The rest of you can fight over bumblebee. But I'm Grimlock, I love Grimlock.

I like the parallel.

[partypooper]

We're mostly seeking money from Ron Paul supporters, not random schmucks.

i know. but we are also hoping that the money raised will generate interest in the minds of those "random schmucks". or not?

[DeadheadForPaul]

I will be sign waving and donating on Nov 5

THAT SAID, I think wearing V masks is going to REFLECT NEGATIVELY on our campaign. We will surely be seen as KOOKS.

During one rally, there were 2 guys wearing V masks and the local media showed them out of all the RP supporters - why do you think they did that? To make it look like RP supporters are moonbats who wear masks of fictional terrorists

[FrankRep]

I will be sign waving and donating on Nov 5

THAT SAID, I think wearing V masks is going to REFLECT NEGATIVELY on our campaign. We will surely be seen as KOOKS.

During one rally, there were 2 guys wearing V masks and the local media showed them out of all the RP supporters - why do you think they did that? To make it look like RP supporters are moonbats who wear masks of fictional terrorists

Yeah, wearing V masks is stupid. I'll agree with that.

[V-rod]

How about a thousand of us wear the V masks in front of the Capitol building, hold up Ron Paul signs as we shout 9/11 was an inside job!


Seriously, V is one of the coolest characters of this decade, but the movie was utter garbage. Even the V for Vendetta writer Alan Moore got his name taken off the credits.

[davidhperry]

How about a thousand of us wear the V masks in front of the Capitol building, hold up Ron Paul signs as we shout 9/11 was an inside job!

Finally - someone around here has a great idea!! :)

I guarantee you that more than a few people on this board would want to do that though.

[Van Damme]

Finally - someone around here has a great idea!! :)

I guarantee you that more than a few people on this board would want to do that though.

That would send the wrong message.

[Van Damme]

How about a thousand of us wear the V masks in front of the Capitol building, hold up Ron Paul signs as we shout 9/11 was an inside job!


Seriously, V is one of the coolest characters of this decade, but the movie was utter garbage. Even the V for Vendetta writer Alan Moore got his name taken off the credits.

Saying that 9/11 was an inside job will alienate potential supporters and will further the view that Ron Paul supporters "wear tinfoil hats."

This would cast the reputation of the campaign in a negative light.

[FrankRep]

That would send the wrong message.

He was joking Van Damme

[NewEnd]

I like the idea.. I jsut wish the movie reference would only be in the date. Fans of the movie would understand... it would blow over thge heads of everybody else, no harm, no foul.

But the masks can be very, very offputting.

(and I am signed up)

[Anti Federalist]

I just signed up.

Now, for Chrissakes, a few things need to be remembered here, besides the 5th of November...

It's a movie.

When RP wins NH, the smear machine will shift into overdrive. There is more than enough material from RP over the years to tar and feather him from both left and right (heard Alan Colmes calling us "cult like Kool-aid drinkers" on his radio show the other day). If you think that by playing nice and following the rules, that all the negative hype that is waiting in the wings, that the statist "haters" will just pack up and go home, you're out of yer' freakin' mind.

I've said it before, and it bears repeating: this final campaign for freedom is on fire precisely because we are "breaking the rules" and not following conventional wisdom.

[max]

How wise is it really to bring to the media's attention that we are comparing Ron Paul to this...

http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/2006/images/VforVendetta_3.jpg


I AM NOT SAYING DO NOT PARTICIPATE ON NOVEMBER 5TH. ALL I ASK IS WE DO NOT COMPARE RON PAUL TO A MOVIE CHARACTER. HE IS NOT CAPTAIN AMERICA. HE IS NOT GUY FAWKES. HE IS RON PAUL.

waaa waaa waa...always living in fear of the god damn media........thats a sure fire recipe for DEFEAT

[Ridiculous]

waaa waaa waa...always living in fear of the god damn media........thats a sure fire recipe for DEFEAT

It isn't about living in fear of the media, it is about avoiding negative press when possible and trying to get positive press.

[max]

It isn't about living in fear of the media, it is about avoiding negative press when possible and trying to get positive press.

Orwellian doubletalk for "living in fear of the media"

[Anti Federalist]

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Just that quote alone is enough to make the hanky wringers and panty wetters in the MSM run screaming for the hills.

Face it, we are going to get a ton of "bad" press, no matter what we or the good Dr. does, because RP is telling truth in a time of universal deceit.

Embrace it and turn it to advantage.

[micahnelson]

I think the date is good, even if just for the "Remember Remember the 5th of November"

We should have a better video on the page though. V references are ok, i guess, as long as we don't have heavy metal and blood. We already seem like the angry white male brigade, why worsen it. lol.

[Ridiculous]

Orwellian doubletalk for "living in fear of the media"

No.

If I work as a PR person for a company that provides a good or service I want to use the media to MY advantage. I want to avoid having people hear negative things about my company and its products. I want to have them hear as many positive things about my company and its products as possible. I want every time that they hear about my company in print, radio or TV for it to be a positive experience. Get the media to play by your rules. Good PR people don't live in fear of the media, they use it to their advantage. If you do PR for a company you try to minimize negative responses. That isn't living in fear it is just common sense and logic.

there is a difference

Marketing a campaign isn't much different, you are just trying to sell a candidate instead of a product.

Just doing what you want and saying who gives a fuck what the media thinks is just plain stupid and reckless. Don't live in fear of the media, but just recognize what it can do for or against your goals.

[davidhperry]

That would send the wrong message.

It was a joke - I totally agree with you.

[LibertyEagle]

How about a thousand of us wear the V masks in front of the Capitol building, hold up Ron Paul signs as we shout 9/11 was an inside job!

Well, I would think you had a wish to see Paul lose. That's what I would think. :mad:

[abstrusezincate]

There's nothing wrong with having a day with a large number of donations. I know the campaign could use the money.

However, I doubt you're going to see them promoting something that will (inadvertently) cause supporters to hold their money back for three weeks, at least until a week before or so.

[c0unterph0bia]

Some of the people on here arguing against the 5th of November are absolutely ridiculous. People are telling jokes on this board and your even taking offense to those jokes (like the one with the V masks). Do you go around looking for things to be prissy about?

We're not celebrating the character "V", we're celebrating the message of the 5th of November. This is a message that resonates worldwide, not just in GB. If your shallow enough to not see the message the movie is sending, or the actual events that the movie is a parable of, then you need to be further educated or just lighten up. Your like the people that take the Bible at face value when even Jesus told parables. I'm not going to keep living in fear that every single little thing I will do shall be twisted by the media.

And what gives us the right to tell people what they can and can't do? You people really don't all seem like Libertarians to me.

And what's up with all the people claiming to be in marketing? Why the f#@% are you here bitching and yet I've been ghosting these boards forever and have never seen any of you share any of your brilliant ideas? Not all of us work or are educated in marketing, and your help would be greatly appreciated for more than just condoning things that other people have come up with. It's like someone on the boards being part of a previous presidential campaign then finally jumping in as the primaries get close and saying "Oh, I worked in a campaign before, I know all kinds of helpful information that I should have been sharing this whole time".

[Brinck Slattery]

I guess the question is whether you want to win an election or feel self-righteous and good about yourself. But there's obviously no convincing you all that it's a bad idea to associate a non-violent, peace-promoting candidate with a violent, psychotic (yet eloquent), terrorist. Even if he is a fictional character. It's the same as if we compared him to Winston Smith in 1984 - makes his supporters, and therefore his campaign movement, look like a bunch of paranoid, frothing, violent fools. But whatever.

[unklejman]

Do you really want this no happen?

10 million FED NOTES on ONE day 11-5?

Then join me for this project within a project:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=001

It might well work. Think about it.

AND DO IT

This link does not work.

[LibertyEagle]

Some of the people on here arguing against the 5th of November are absolutely ridiculous. People are telling jokes on this board and your even taking offense to those jokes (like the one with the V masks). Do you go around looking for things to be prissy about?

We're not celebrating the character "V", we're celebrating the message of the 5th of November. This is a message that resonates worldwide, not just in GB. If your shallow enough to not see the message the movie is sending, or the actual events that the movie is a parable of, then you need to be further educated or just lighten up. Your like the people that take the Bible at face value when even Jesus told parables. I'm not going to keep living in fear that every single little thing I will do shall be twisted by the media.

Well, the reality is that you are willingly handing the media the fodder to make this movement seem like a violent kook movement. People seem bound and determined to go forward with this, so ok. But don't blame anyone but yourselves if the media uses this event to cause a lot of damage to this campaign. It won't be their fault; it will be your doing.

Remember the Dean scream?


And what gives us the right to tell people what they can and can't do? You people really don't all seem like Libertarians to me.


Oh, you have the right. But, you also will be held accountable for the results of your actions.

BTW, a lot of us are NOT Libertarians. Good thing too, because Libertarians have yet to even get on the radar for a Presidential election. Paul is a Republican, a traditional conservative and a Constitutionalist. Not just a libertarian.

[kylejack]

Remember the Dean scream?
That's something Dean did, not something some random supporters of his did.

[LibertyEagle]

Orwellian doubletalk for "living in fear of the media"

There is a big difference between living in fear of the media and going out of your way to associate this campaign with a violent act.

[LibertyEagle]

That's something Dean did, not something some random supporters of his did.

My point was that it doesn't take much to bring down a campaign.

[pcosmar]

I guess the question is whether you want to win an election or feel self-righteous and good about yourself. But there's obviously no convincing you all that it's a bad idea to associate a non-violent, peace-promoting candidate with a violent, psychotic (yet eloquent), terrorist. Even if he is a fictional character. It's the same as if we compared him to Winston Smith in 1984 - makes his supporters, and therefore his campaign movement, look like a bunch of paranoid, frothing, violent fools. But whatever.
Then by your definition the Founding Fathers were violent terrorists.
I prefer a Peaceful Revolution, however the revolution will happen and must happen.
It is good to remind the PTB that "WE the People" are the power in this land.

[synthetic]

If people are still worried about "V" and the violence from the movie, don't. The 5th is just a day to rally behind for Ron. I linked this video in another thread but its needed here. Try to have some fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkmiDqMcxc

[LibertyEagle]

Then by your definition the Founding Fathers were violent terrorists.
I prefer a Peaceful Revolution, however the revolution will happen and must happen.
It is good to remind the PTB that "WE the People" are the power in this land.

Well, it's nice to know that some of you have apparently taken it upon yourselves to redefine the tone of the campaign. Have you let them know? :rolleyes:

[kylejack]

Well, it's nice to know that some of you have apparently taken it upon yourselves to redefine the tone of the campaign. Have you let them know? :rolleyes:
Please address the founding father comment.

[FrankRep]

Please address the founding father comment.

Yeah, maybe the 2nd amendment should be removed.

I mean guns are made for killings things so thats kinda violent. Do we really want to be associated with such violent things like the 2nd amendment?

[Ridiculous]

V4Vendetta is referring to Fawkes and the gunpowder plot here:

The BRITISH celebrate it because he failed!

WE ARE CELEBRATING IT BECAUSE HE TRIED



Like I said elsewhere you are misguided if you think the gunpowder plot people were "freedom fighters," They were not.

Guy Fawkes tried to blow up parlement so their could be catholic rule rather than protestant, not because he wanted freedom of religion. He wasn't an anarchist or a libertarian. He wasn't doing it for liberty or freedom, he wasn't V from V for Vendetta.

He just wanted the theocracy that he supported to be in charge.

"Robert Catesby may have decided upon the plot when hopes of Catholic toleration under James I receded leaving many Catholics disappointed. However it is likely Catesby simply envisaged a Catholic future for England brought about by his drastic scheme. The plot was intended to begin a rebellion during which James' nine-year-old daughter (Princess Elizabeth) could be installed as a Catholic head of state."

Fawkes worked for Catesby. You see, he wasn't even a freedom fighter, but just another pawn in the the centuries long struggle for the British crown and religious control.

Putting this false fredom figher hero status on Fawkes is no better than doing it for Che Guvarra.

[constituent]

^ouch, elbows and all.

+1 Nov. 4
+1 Nov. 6
+1 Tea Party

[pcosmar]

Many, if not most who have seen the movie"V" have no idea who Guy Fawkes was,or the history behind him.
The conflict between Freedom and Totalitarianism is never ending.
The character in"V" is a symbolic face on the freedom fighter. And though he may have used violence against a violent enemy, the crowds of people who wore the masks were non-violent.

I saw it as a classic Good v Evil story. The history of Guy Fawkes was irrelevant.

[Ridiculous]

I saw it as a classic Good v Evil story. The history of Guy Fawkes was irrelevant.

That isn't how some people are trying to paint it:


[CENTER]It is in Reference to the Film "V for Vendetta" About a Man named Guy Fawkes That tried to overthrow his government (The British)

HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SO, TODAY?

The Following British Colonialists Succeeded Where Guy Fawkes Didn't
These Brave British Cititens, decided to rebel, overthrow their Government, and fight their own Military, and make a REPUBLIC:


He goes on to list the US founding fathers.

It is well intentioned, but if you look into the history, the founding fathers and the Gunpowder conspirators had very different motivations. The Gunpowder plot was part of a larger play for the Brittish crown and not a freedom and liberty movement.

Here is the thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.net/showthread.php?t=26479&highlight=ridiculous

[LibertyEagle]

Please address the founding father comment.

What about it?

[pcosmar]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Brinck Slattery]

Yes, but now is not that time. And if you make it seem as if the supporters of a candidate support the violent overthrow of the government, it's a negative. Period. Another example, this thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.net/showthread.php?t=26479), with the image that says "Remember, Remember the Eleventh of September, the government treason and plot" - again, if this stuff gets out, that this is what turns Ron Paul supporters on and encourages them to donate money, the 80% of the people in the country who still don't know who Ron Paul is will think he is a nutcase, and unworthy of consideration. They'll become "no"s instead of "maybe"s.

But continue. I'm John Rambo, internet warrior for freedom! I blow up bulidings in my mind when the shit gets heavy at an unspecified future date!

[FrankRep]

...

[kylejack]

What about it?
Do you think our movement should be disassociated from all violent revolutionaries who wanted to overthrow the government? If the founding fathers are a special case, why?

[LibertyEagle]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Yes, indeed. However, that is not what Ron Paul's campaign is about. It is about reclaiming our country without bloodshed.

If you are looking for a campaign that will support you going off and annointing yourself as the judge, jury and executioner of other people, you'll probably find a better fit with one of the neocon campaigns. :cool:

[constituent]

But continue. I'm John Rambo, internet warrior for freedom! I blow up bulidings in my mind when the shit gets heavy at an unspecified future date!

That was good. Seriously, the funniest thing I've seen on here in a looooooong time.

[LibertyEagle]

Do you think our movement should be disassociated from all violent revolutionaries who wanted to overthrow the government? If the founding fathers are a special case, why?

I think "our movement" should be in support of Ron Paul's campaign, right now. That's what I think.

If we fail in that effort, that will be another thing entirely.

[Ridiculous]

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Yes, but now isn't the time to refresh that tree with blood. We are trying to get someone elected and win the votes of every day Americans. Most Americans aren't even that familiar with Jefferson or Revolutionary War history. Maybe one day it might be necessary to take up arms, but that day isn't today. WE ARE TRYING TO GET RON PAUL ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. You have to play it smart. You don't get someone elected in 2007 by associating them with violence.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Violent ideas don't help people get elected in 2007. Violence is a last resort.

Try this first before you go spilling blood:

Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.
-Thomas Jefferson

My point is that you have to be smart with your marketing. It is about the perceptions of the average American. Yes, there is a difference between the Founders and other violent revolutionaries. The founders are viewed as heroes that could do no wrong. Other people from other violent revolutions are not viewed in such a positive light. You just have to be smart with your marketing....

[FrankRep]

Yes, indeed. However, that is not what Ron Paul's campaign is about. It is about reclaiming our country without bloodshed.

If you are looking for a campaign that will support you going off and annointing yourself as the judge, jury and executioner of other people, you'll probably find a better fit with one of the neocon campaigns. :cool:

It's a Fund Raiser. Remember? People are donating $100 dollars.

[kylejack]

I think "our movement" should be in support of Ron Paul's campaign, right now. That's what I think.

If we fail in that effort, that will be another thing entirely.

Could you address the founding father question? I'm not really sure how many times I need to ask you before you stop dodging and just answer the question.

[FrankRep]

Yes, but now isn't the time to refresh that tree with blood. We are trying to get someone elected and win the votes of every day Americans. Most Americans aren't even that familiar with Jefferson or Revolutionary War history. Maybe one day it might be necessary to take up arms, but that day isn't today. WE ARE TRYING TO GET RON PAUL ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. You have to play it smart. You don't get someone elected in 2007 by associating them with violence.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Violent ideas don't help people get elected in 2007. Violence is a last resort.

It's a Fund Raiser. Remember? People are donating $100 dollars.

[constituent]

Violent ideas don't help people get elected in 2007. Violence is a last resort.

But it is so rare that any of get to any resorts that even that last seems like a good idea.

[kylejack]

Yes, but now isn't the time to refresh that tree with blood. We are trying to get someone elected and win the votes of every day Americans. Most Americans aren't even that familiar with Jefferson or Revolutionary War history. Maybe one day it might be necessary to take up arms, but that day isn't today. WE ARE TRYING TO GET RON PAUL ELECTED SO THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. You have to play it smart. You don't get someone elected in 2007 by associating them with violence.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Violent ideas don't help people get elected in 2007. Violence is a last resort.

Try this first before you go spilling blood:
Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day.

-Thomas Jefferson
Ron Paul frequently makes reference to the founding fathers. Do you think he should stop referencing people who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

[Brinck Slattery]

Yes, the founding fathers are a special case. There is a thing called context - Americans are taught in school that the founding fathers, although they had to use violence, weren't really violent. I know, it's not true, and it's another case of American exceptionalism. We do not look the same way on Simon Bolivar, or the Bolsheviks, or (and this is probably stirring the pot) the Confederacy. Most people like stasis, and have a certain feel-good attitude about the country. It's the role of this campaign to wake them up - gently and holding their hands the whole way, not smacking them upside the head and terrifying them with the idea that a return to freedom means violence.

Also, it's important to remember that, in the bigger sense, this isn't a "movement," it's a campaign. It's trying to get as many people as possible to vote for Ron Paul, not to satisfy our own personal hobby horses.

[LibertyEagle]

Could you address the founding father question? I'm not really sure how many times I need to ask you before you stop dodging and just answer the question.


Do you think our movement should be disassociated from all violent revolutionaries who wanted to overthrow the government?

I don't think we need to disassociate with anyone. We aren't sleeping together. We are uniting to support reinstating the Constitution and individual liberty. If someone advocates acts of violence, racism, etc., I hope we will denounce these acts.


If the founding fathers are a special case, why?

Not really. They had no other recourse. Thanks to them, we still do. However, by some acting like the nut jobs that others love to call us, we are WASTING OUR CHANCE of reclaiming our country on peaceful terms.

[LibertyEagle]

Also, it's important to remember that, in the bigger sense, this isn't a "movement," it's a campaign. It's trying to get as many people as possible to vote for Ron Paul, not to satisfy our own personal hobby horses.

Oooh.... THAT was good. :D

[kylejack]

I don't think we need to disassociate with anyone. We aren't sleeping together. We are uniting to support reinstating the Constitution and individual liberty. If someone advocates acts of violence, racism, etc., I hope we will denounce these acts.

Not really. They had no other recourse. Thanks to them, we still do. However, by some acting like the nut jobs that others love to call us, we are WASTING OUR CHANCE of reclaiming our country on peaceful terms.
Alright, that seems like a good answer. The V for Vendetta thing will continue, because its a powerful motivator for youthful supporters and because there's no need to disassociate it.

[American]

Why would you think the American revolution is over, if we no longer have our scripts that make this country what it is I think thats reason for concern. I've also heard RP say that as well, this is a continuation of the revolution.

Lets hope we can do it the right way, through the political system. But if we cant, we can adress that when the time comes.

About Nov 5th, whatever gets the money into the campaign. Why not celebrate the 55th thursday of the year, bet it falls on some alien holiday.

[Ridiculous]

Ron Paul frequently makes reference to the founding fathers. Do you think he should stop referencing people who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

Please see Brinck Slattery's post for a good answer to your question.

[kylejack]

Please see Brinck Slattery's post for a good answer to your question.
Ah yes, the "people are stupid, cater to their stupidity" argument.

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul frequently makes reference to the founding fathers. Do you think he should stop referencing people who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

Look, you seem like someone who is just itching to use violence. Seriously, dude. What's your deal? This campaign is about having a chance to get our country back without violence.

I'll say again, that if you're looking for a campaign that will support you going off and annointing yourself as the judge, jury and executioner of other people, you'll probably find a better fit with one of the neocon campaigns.

By the way, you do realize, don't you, that many Communists also advocated the violent overthrow of the government. You seem to be equating the use of violence with some kind of freedom fighter concept. :rolleyes:

[FrankRep]

Look, you seem like someone who is just itching to use violence. Seriously, dude. What's your deal? This campaign is about having a chance to get our country back without violence.

I'll say again, that if you're looking for a campaign that will support you going off and annointing yourself as the judge, jury and executioner of other people, you'll probably find a better fit with one of the neocon campaigns.

By the way, you do realize, don't you, that many Communists also advocated the violent overthrow of the government. You seem to be equating the use of violence with some kind of freedom fighter concept. :rolleyes:


Donating $100 = violence?

[LibertyEagle]

Alright, that seems like a good answer. The V for Vendetta thing will continue, because its a powerful motivator for youthful supporters and because there's no need to disassociate it.

Actually, those who are highlighting Guy Fawkes as the reason behind the November 5 donation, ARE showcasing an act of violence. That is exactly why I am denouncing it. It appears that you did not read my answer.


If someone advocates acts of violence, racism, etc., I hope we will denounce these acts.

[kylejack]

Look, you seem like someone who is just itching to use violence. Seriously, dude. What's your deal? This campaign is about having a chance to get our country back without violence.
Questions are questions, not declarations.


By the way, you do realize, don't you, that many Communists also advocated the violent overthrow of the government. You seem to be equating the use of violence with some kind of freedom fighter concept. :rolleyes:
I did not advocate the violent overthrow of the government, so have fun beating up that straw man.

[FrankRep]

Actually, those who are highlighting Guy Fawkes as the reason behind the November 5 donation, ARE showcasing an act of violence. That is exactly why I am denouncing it. It appears that you did not read my answer.


How is donating $100 an act of violence?

[Ridiculous]

Like I said in another thread this is not the type of image that you want to have come to people's minds when they think of a Ron Paul supporter.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/Troyg19/2316319c.jpg

This is:
http://images1.comstock.com/Imagewarehouse/RF/SITECS/NLWMCompingVersions/0077000/77500-77999/KS77762.jpg

or this

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/CSK/CSK259/KS77768.jpg


WE ARE TRYING TO GET A MAN ELECTED. So quit with your violent freedom fighter fantasy. There is a time for guns and bullets, but that time is not right now.

[FrankRep]

How is donating $100 an act of violence?

[Brinck Slattery]

Ugh, I'm not saying people are stupid, just that you have to meet them where they're standing. The vast majority of people in this country don't care about politics, not out of stupidity, but out of rational ignorance. We have to make them care, and terrifying them with scary masks and stories about some guy who tried to blow up Parliament won't make them any more interested in Ron Paul.


It's not about the $100!

I can use big letters too.
It's about using violent images to promote the fundraising and acting like the freedom posse that's gonna come to town and hang us some statists. Not good for the campaign.

[LibertyEagle]

Donating $100 = violence?

No, of course not. It's the reason behind the date chosen. Hell, you can read through this thread and see there are several who think advocating violence makes them some kind of freedom-fighter. :rolleyes:

Please don't forget the whole reason I at least thought we have come together. To support a campaign that will enable us to start reclaiming our country peacefully. Ron Paul is all about peace. Or did some of us forget that?

[kylejack]

Actually, those who are highlighting Guy Fawkes as the reason behind the November 5 donation, ARE showcasing an act of violence. That is exactly why I am denouncing it. It appears that you did not read my answer.
You haven't explained, though, why you think mentioning the founding fathers doesn't "showcase an act of violence".

[Ridiculous]

Ugh, I'm not saying people are stupid, just that you have to meet them where they're standing. The vast majority of people in this country don't care about politics, not out of stupidity, but out of rational ignorance. We have to make them care, and terrifying them with scary masks and stories about some guy who tried to blow up Parliament won't make them any more interested in Ron Paul.


It's not about the $100!

It's about using violent images to promote the fundraising and acting like the freedom posse that's gonna come to town and hang us some statists. Not good for the campaign.

^
Exactly

[FrankRep]

It's not about the $100!


Yes it is! It's about donating $100! Its called a fund raiser.

[LibertyEagle]

You haven't explained, though, why you think mentioning the founding fathers doesn't "showcase an act of violence".

What???? They wrote the Constitution. Doh.

[LibertyEagle]

Yes it is! It's about donating $100! Its called a fund raiser.

Great. Then pick another day to do so!!!!

Or, at the very least, stop pushing this V for Vendetta BS!!!!!

[kylejack]

What???? They wrote the Constitution. Doh.
And the Declaration of Independence as well.

[Brinck Slattery]

well, this is quickly devolving into a "who can use the biggest and most colorful text" battle. If you don't get why using V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes, a failed terrorist who is burned in effigy each year on November 5 in England, is a bad idea and will reflect poorly upon Ron Paul and his supporters, you probably never will.

[FrankRep]

well, this is quickly devolving into a "who can use the biggest and most colorful text" battle. If you don't get why using V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes, a failed terrorist who is burned in effigy each year on November 5 in England, is a bad idea and will reflect poorly upon Ron Paul and his supporters, you probably never will.

The founding fathers owned Black slaves. How will this reflect on the Constitution and on us?

[LibertyEagle]

It seems to me that we have some in this campaign who are Blackwater wannabes.

[kylejack]

well, this is quickly devolving into a "who can use the biggest and most colorful text" battle. If you don't get why using V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes, a failed terrorist who is burned in effigy each year on November 5 in England, is a bad idea and will reflect poorly upon Ron Paul and his supporters, you probably never will.

Good point, we're all a bunch of stupid idiots who will never get it, time to give up on us and this issue.

[FrankRep]

It seems to me that we have some in this campaign who are Blackwater wannabes.
By donating $100 dollars?

[LibertyEagle]

The founding fathers owned Black slaves. How will this reflect on the Constitution and on us?

Frank, when you or anyone else on this board become a founding father, why don't you get back with us. K?

[LibertyEagle]

By donating $100 dollars?

Clearly, you are having trouble reading. I have already addressed this issue.

[Original_Intent]

Do not post beyond this point.

Everything that can be said on this issue has been said ad nauseaum.

By posting beyond this point, you will cross into the Stupidity Zone

[kylejack]

Frank, when you or anyone else on this board become a founding father, why don't you get back with us. K?

When you or anyone else becomes Guy Fawkes, let us know.

[American]

I think we should have a group picture on Nov 5th with everyone wearing Guy Fawkes masks on.....what do you think?

Could be great publicity

[kylejack]

I think we should have a group picture on Nov 5th with everyone wearing Guy Fawkes masks on.....what do you think?

Could be great publicity
Yeah, some Ron Paul supporters have done this at protests in the past.

[KewlRonduderules]

I think both sides of the argument are legitimate. You will have a group that will think people are supporting violent means to bring about change which (of course) is not the intent.
Then you have another group who are looking beyond the violence and instead focusing on the message behind November 5th campaign- bringing about change through the grassroots movement.

I agree a lot of people are rationally ignorant. But I think most people are aware that movies are just movies- some have a transparent message while others do not. Didn't Gov. schwarzenegger use some of his Terminator movies stuff in his campaign? Moreover, didn't Governor Ventura talk violently for years when he was a professional wrestler before he became governor?

In my personal opinion, I see nothing wrong with the November 5th date. We are just donating and wanting to bring about change.

You know, one could argue that the Ron Paul Revolution can be construed as violent because of the name alone - 'Revolution'. We are not violent. Nor do I think most of us would advocate violence in anyway shape or form. Heck, most of us (if not all of us) want out of Iraq and want to rid of the police state. It is hard to argue against that.

[American]

This whole "issue" with Nov 5th is hilarious. You act like we have a really informed country. These mongo tards who believe this BS in todays media are clueless. Even if the media blows it up into something its not it would still be great for RP, V for Vendetta was LOOSELY based off the gunpowder plot of 1605, and if you know this history Guy Fawkes was only the fall guy, he wasnt master mind at all.

The point is, the movie is based in London, and if anyone connects the dots then there is a problem they recognize here. Those who dont connect the dots are obviously not going to support RP anyways. I think its brilliant

[Energy]

Derek Johnson, I'd advise to add more info to your current eBay auction about Nov 5, like the goal of having 100,000 x $100 = $10,000,000 to make an earth-shattering statement.

Guys, this is now getting ridiculous, at http://thisnovember5th.com there's another video added (the upper one) with Guy Fawkes masks (can by misconstrued as lunatic Ron Paul suppporters):

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7884/img251ih6.jpg

The website owner is lyman.trevor@gmail.com if you want to send suggestions or voice opinion. It's published in the domain whois lookup.