So, What are you going to do about it?

[pcosmar]

There is a story out. Might get mainstream and might piss a whole lot of people off.
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/219670/couple-state-took-our-baby
It may bring a whole lot of the liberty movement together. There are issues for everybody here.
The Oath Keepers have solid grounds and valid issues.
There are several 2nd Amendment issues.
Privacy issues
Family and "family services"
A whole range of political hard balls.

So, What are we going to do about it?
Brain storm. ;)

Free Baby Cheyenne
http://www.facebook.com/freebabycheyenne

[Yieu]

Strongly worded letters of disapproval?

[torchbearer]

Strongly worded letters of disapproval?

the kings are no longer reading your petitions.
what then?

[Philhelm]

We can beg our masters for mercy, like a whimpering dog, and promise that we will be obedient.

[torchbearer]

We can beg our masters for mercy, like a whimpering dog, and promise that we will be obedient.

Kiss my ring!
http://www.dublin.ie/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33482&stc=1&d=1266694151


Now turn around and grab your ankles.
http://image51.webshots.com/151/3/53/67/506535367GZErlo_ph.jpg

Now thank me for my generousity and get the fuck out of my office.

[pcosmar]

the kings are no longer reading your petitions.
what then?

This has been the case. But then this story could also piss off a lot of people on the fence.
A lot of people that know somebody in a similar situation.
There are links of corruption the could be exposed to a larger audience.
There are violations of civil rights,,,
There is good Ammo here for everybody.

And it could wake a few more folks up.
:cool:

[pcosmar]

OK, now it is TIME TO PUSH BACK -- peaceably, of course, using our voices and pens. Let the officials in question know that you strongly oppose their listing of an association with Oath Keepers as one of the reasons for taking this child. Let them know you insist that they remove that “reason” from the affidavit and issue a public retraction, and until they do so, they will hear from all of us, and also from our legal counsel. And we won’t relent until they respect our First Amendment protected rights of free speech and association and cease and desist this chilling of those rights. Be professional, but firm. Make them hear you.

Stewart Rhodes

I applaud this. And it is a good position for him to take.
Glad to him take this stand.

The 2nd Amendment issues here are obvious to any one following the story. It seems like an attack on both Open and Concealed carry.
The CPS issue is something I have seen and dealt with before.
And the character assassination, and police state tactics I just find offensive.

Some of them I know well.

[pcosmar]

I really dislike the character assassination going on but it is common enough.
It seems that the "Weapons Charges" are questionable. He and she carried, He was an Open Carry Advocate and she had a concealed carry permit. Reports are that he Open Carried regularly and had some contact with LE.
there are no convictions to my knowledge.
btw. I also question the abuse charges. She carried a gun. ;)

And I have years of personal experience.
The same corrupt system is here.
The county persecutor is Brian Peppler. His wife runs the other side.
http://www.dprcenter.org/

Can you see conflict of interest, or a merging of interests?
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2006/08/things-have-not-gone-well.html

[pcosmar]

Bump for ideas.

[specsaregood]

Have they found out who exactly listed the membership in the Oath Keepers on any of the legal docs? Have the actual docs been released yet to verify?

The MIAC stuff really exploded once it could be completely vetted as legit and the source tracked down.

[pcosmar]

Have they found out who exactly listed the membership in the Oath Keepers on any of the legal docs? Have the actual docs been released yet to verify?

The MIAC stuff really exploded once it could be completely vetted as legit and the source tracked down.
You might ask Stewart Rhodes, he has seen enough to step up.
I believe that his complaint is valid and will gather more news to this case.
I think that it will scatter the roaches.
And if others addressed this from other angles ,2nd amend,. CPS?, Parental rights.
And then there is the political issue of the SPLC(political beliefs) becoming so involved with the enforcement.
We could surround them.

I'll let Stewart worry about the documents. he's a lawyer you know.

[osan]

Kiss my ring!
http://www.dublin.ie/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33482&stc=1&d=1266694151



Papal douche looks like Giuliani. Ewwww.

[pcosmar]

freebabycheyenne.com
http://www.freebabycheyenne.com/

[pcosmar]

///
:(

[wizardwatson]

Don't be sad pcosmar. Forum isn't really a good place to get organized.

[sratiug]

I think the protests should be aimed at the state governor.

[pcosmar]

Don't be sad pcosmar. Forum isn't really a good place to get organized.
:eek:
It used to be.
:(

[wizardwatson]

:eek:
It used to be.
:(

I know, pcosmar.

Are you trying to make me cry too?

:(

[pcosmar]

I know, pcosmar.

Are you trying to make me cry too?

:(
No, My wife does the crying.
She usually ignores the stuff I am listening to while she plays Farmville.
She has had personal experience with this shit too, over the years.
She does the crying here.

:mad:

[MelissaWV]

:eek:
It used to be.
:(

It did at that.

On this particular matter, however, please consider how some folks might be looking at this.

There is SOMETHING going on here, and I don't think anyone doubts that. Even on this forum, the line is drawn in different places for different people as to when it's appropriate to snatch a baby away from its potentially harmful parents. You've seen that in the responses on the other thread. The documentation that would solidify that line for people is still up in the air.

Moreover, if this case is going to become the focal point of a movement to try to reform/abolish CPS, or to champion the 2nd Amendment, or to admonish the police force, the facts need to be resolved ahead of time. Some will bring the alleged character of the people in question into it, and they MIGHT NOT (depending on what's been charged, proven, etc.) need the "gun-toting radical" label to make their point.

Before spending time and money to physically appear at a protest and become angry at something, it behooves everyone to ensure that what they are angry about actually happened the way they think it did. "Infant Taken From Mother Because ______" needs a really infuriating reason to fill in the blank before enough people will throw themselves into the fray.

However, yeah, I agree with you on the general sentiment about the forums.

[Icymudpuppy]

I would really like to know the full story, but I have to question if there are truly parental issues involved, why was only the baby taken, and not the toddlers?

[Jcambeis]

I would really like to know the full story, but I have to question if there are truly parental issues involved, why was only the baby taken, and not the toddlers?

The other kids were taken years ago.
Irish and his fiance have not been very clear on what is going on or about their past.

There are a few elephants in the room that are not being discussed regarding them. What is clear is that the OK affiliation is bogus. He never took the Oath he only posted on the forums.

At the protest no one knew him or even heard about him prior to the AJ interview.

[pcosmar]

The other kids were taken years ago.
Irish and his fiance have not been very clear on what is going on or about their past.

There are a few elephants in the room that are not being discussed regarding them. What is clear is that the OK affiliation is bogus. He never took the Oath he only posted on the forums.

At the protest no one knew him or even heard about him prior to the AJ interview.
This thread was started to look into ways that this story can be used to get Issues addressed.
There are a great many Civil Liberties attacked in this story. Enough to unite the Liberty movement.
Enough to wound the beast, or at least to put a leash on it.

The only Elephant I see is Character Assassination.

[tropicangela]

This thread was started to look into ways that this story can be used to get Issues addressed.
There are a great many Civil Liberties attacked in this story. Enough to unite the Liberty movement.
Enough to wound the beast, or at least to put a leash on it.

The only Elephant I see is Character Assassination.

One of the best ways might be to help them have good representation either by finding a lawyer to help them and/or donating so they can afford one. Someone who can look at the documents and talk to the couple privately without assuming or guessing like some people here.

[pcosmar]

With this case in the news can we throw any political hardballs at Candidates?

[pcosmar]

///
:(

[pcosmar]

Strongly worded letters of disapproval?

That's just gonna haunt me isn't it.
;)

[susano]

this thread was started to look into ways that this story can be used to get issues addressed.
There are a great many civil liberties attacked in this story. Enough to unite the liberty movement.
Enough to wound the beast, or at least to put a leash on it.

the only elephant i see is character assassination.

+ 1000

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Strongly worded letters of disapproval?

lol


That's just gonna haunt me isn't it.
;)

yes it is...

YouTube - Al Pacino's Inspirational Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk&feature=related)

[tropicangela]

CPS Watch Facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/pages/CPS-Watch/133339569426

[Bern]

I think further investigations are warranted to really blow this story up.

Who wrote/prepared the affidavit?
Why did they include the mention of the Oath Keepers?
Why did they characterize the OK as a militia?

If a link can be tied to any memo or other communication from the SPLC (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3358-leftist-splc-publishes-patriot-hit-list) and/or DHS Working Group on Countering Violent Extremism (http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/08/its-official-southern-poverty-law-center-is-now-part-of-dhs/), it would provide a lot of political capital to tear down the DHS walls IMO.

[pcosmar]

I think further investigations are warranted to really blow this story up.

Who wrote/prepared the affidavit?
Why did they include the mention of the Oath Keepers?
Why did they characterize the OK as a militia?

If a link can be tied to any memo or other communication from the SPLC (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3358-leftist-splc-publishes-patriot-hit-list) and/or DHS Working Group on Countering Violent Extremism (http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/08/its-official-southern-poverty-law-center-is-now-part-of-dhs/), it would provide a lot of political capital to tear down the DHS walls IMO.
That connection can already be made through statements and writings .
That connection between a political group and Government Enforcement only needs to be Spotlighted and become a open subject of conversation.

The connection can be made be any that look. Just need to get folks to look.

[VegasPatriot]

RALLY FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT! This Thursday, October 14, Dover, NH

We (Oath Keepers) will be holding a rally in support of the First Amendment protected right of freedom of association, to be held this Thursday, October 14, at the Rochester Family Division Court, 259 County Farm Rd, Dover, NH 03820-6016.

I (Stewart Rhodes) will be there, and I am calling on all Oath Keepers, all who “associate” with us, and on all other organizations that stand for the Constitution and for liberty to be there for a peaceful gathering in support of both the due process rights of the parents (who have a hearing there, on that day), but also to stand in support of the rights of free speech and association, free from persecution, for ALL Americans. I will post more details later today. Please join us!

[Pericles]

I think further investigations are warranted to really blow this story up.

Who wrote/prepared the affidavit?
Why did they include the mention of the Oath Keepers?
Why did they characterize the OK as a militia?

If a link can be tied to any memo or other communication from the SPLC (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3358-leftist-splc-publishes-patriot-hit-list) and/or DHS Working Group on Countering Violent Extremism (http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/08/its-official-southern-poverty-law-center-is-now-part-of-dhs/), it would provide a lot of political capital to tear down the DHS walls IMO.

It would seem to be that whoever prepared the affidavit has "confirmed" things that are not true, a push for a perjury charge for the author of the affidavit might have some good consequences.

[pcosmar]

RALLY FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT! This Thursday, October 14, Dover, NH

We (Oath Keepers) will be holding a rally in support of the First Amendment protected right of freedom of association, to be held this Thursday, October 14, at the Rochester Family Division Court, 259 County Farm Rd, Dover, NH 03820-6016.

I (Stewart Rhodes) will be there, and I am calling on all Oath Keepers, all who “associate” with us, and on all other organizations that stand for the Constitution and for liberty to be there for a peaceful gathering in support of both the due process rights of the parents (who have a hearing there, on that day), but also to stand in support of the rights of free speech and association, free from persecution, for ALL Americans. I will post more details later today. Please join us!
That should get some news coverage. I hope lots. This needs a spotlight on it.

Hell this need a serious disinfectant.
:mad:

[Bern]

That connection can already be made through statements and writings.

I meant an evidentiary link - the kind of proof that stands up in court - not internet speculation. If you are aware of the existence of a causal link, by all means share and I'll shout it from the rooftops.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

It would seem to be that whoever prepared the affidavit has "confirmed" things that are not true, a push for a perjury charge for the author of the affidavit might have some good consequences.

Maybe a few affidavits should be prepared and filed against the party whose conduct is unlawful...

Now all that needs to be included is how you believe that they did not believe what they believe to be true.

This is where ignorance of the law is not an excuse for what someone believes is used to your advantage.

[pcosmar]

I meant an evidentiary link - the kind of proof that stands up in court - not internet speculation. If you are aware of the existence of a causal link, by all means share and I'll shout it from the rooftops.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/splc-dhs-community-officials-team-up-to-attack-patriot-groups.html

[Bern]

@pcosmar - yes, if you clicked the links I posted in my OP on this thread, you'd see I was aware of these circumstancial issues. What I'm interested in seeing is if the person (or people) responsible for drafting point #7 were prejudiced by any specific communication from the SPLC/DHS.

[pcosmar]

@pcosmar - yes, if you clicked the links I posted in my OP on this thread, you'd see I was aware of these circumstancial issues. What I'm interested in seeing is if the person (or people) responsible for drafting point #7 were prejudiced by any specific communication from the SPLC/DHS.

Only if you get one or more to admit it on record.
It is obvious to anyone looking honestly at it. Getting it admitted on record is another thing.
:(

[fedup100]

We can beg our masters for mercy, like a whimpering dog, and promise that we will be obedient.

Or we could bend the master over and reddin his ass till he begs for mercy and wimpers like a dog that in the future he will obey, it really is our choice.

[Brian4Liberty]

Who wrote/prepared the affidavit?
Why did they include the mention of the Oath Keepers?
Why did they characterize the OK as a militia?


An answer is at 4:20 in this video. The Caseworker used Google/Facebook to find the mention of Oathkeepers. Looks like the caseworker is the person who added it to the document, and characterized them as a militia.

Did a MIAC style report plant a seed in this caseworkers mind? Who knows.

YouTube - Baby Cheyenne Story Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lq5sr3hthk)

[pcosmar]

An answer is at 4:20 in this video. The Caseworker used Google/Facebook to find the mention of Oathkeepers. Looks like the caseworker is the person who added it to the document, and characterized them as a militia.

Did a MIAC style report plant a seed in this caseworkers mind? Who knows.


I am more interested in if she had any SPLC/DHS training,and if so , What?

Though another question arises. Is face book considered "evidence"? Or even a reliable source?

:mad:

[pcosmar]

///

[pcosmar]

TPM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/oath_keepers.php

First MSM spin on it.

[Bern]

TPM is MSM?

[pcosmar]

TPM is MSM?

(video)
MSNBC

YouTube - Daniel Barrick Talks To MSNBC About Oath Keepers Custody Story (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfuuUUuPreQ)

[pcosmar]

So,
As to controlling the spin. Anyone got Ideas. Media is going to spin for the State.
Can we get enough folks to contact media and sway or temper that spin.

Will it backfire, and public anger be enough to sway them?

Is the internet, social networks, and alternate media enough to get the story out?

More questions than answers I suppose. It would be nice to see US, the Liberty Movement/Patriot Movement, this Revolution control the spin. Or at least have some of it.
It is time to spin toward Liberty.

[susano]

So,
As to controlling the spin. Anyone got Ideas. Media is going to spin for the State.
Can we get enough folks to contact media and sway or temper that spin.

Will it backfire, and public anger be enough to sway them?

Is the internet, social networks, and alternate media enough to get the story out?

More questions than answers I suppose. It would be nice to see US, the Liberty Movement/Patriot Movement, this Revolution control the spin. Or at least have some of it.
It is time to spin toward Liberty.

I don't see any benefit to contacting MSM. Been down that road over their treatment of Ron Paul. They're completely corrupt and tools of the establishment.

Must be the internet shitstorm that caused MSNBC to report it. Could be because they already have in interest in Oath Keepers being a "dangerous" organization and their (MSNBC's) relationship with the Southern Poverty Law Center. If there is any follow up, I would expect it to be arguing the case that this is not about Oath Keepers but "neglect".

[pcosmar]

I don't see any benefit to contacting MSM. Been down that road over their treatment of Ron Paul. They're completely corrupt and tools of the establishment.

Must be the internet shitstorm that caused MSNBC to report it. Could be because they already have in interest in Oath Keepers being a "dangerous" organization and their (MSNBC's) relationship with the Southern Poverty Law Center. If there is any follow up, I would expect it to be arguing the case that this is not about Oath Keepers but "neglect".

Yup, even the Wonk was on this from the start. Reason responded to them. MSM will try to do the same.

Need More Local Video. I hope there is coverage of the Rally. I'm stuck on the farm.

[susano]

TPM
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/oath_keepers.php

First MSM spin on it.

That article states that the Concord Monitor reporter had full access to the DCYF documents. I know that Irish and taylor had those documents by DCYC keeps claiming they can't release information because of "privacy" laws or rules. So, how did the reporter get access to the documents?

[susano]

To answer your question posed in the title, I think the case worker should criminally prosecuted for using the color of law to violate the constitutional and civil rights of the parents and baby:


-CITE-
18 USC Sec. 241 02/01/2010

-EXPCITE-
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 13 - CIVIL RIGHTS

-HEAD-
Sec. 241. Conspiracy against rights

-STATUTE-
If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or
intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth,
Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any
right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of
the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;
or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the
premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free
exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured -
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
ten years, or both; [and if death results from the acts committed in
violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an
attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit
aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life,
or both, or may be sentenced to death.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/18C13.txt

[pcosmar]

To answer your question posed in the title, I think the case worker should criminally prosecuted for using the color of law to violate the constitutional and civil rights of the parents and baby:



And unnamed co-conspirators.
:(

[susano]

And unnamed co-conspirators.
:(

Also the DCYF laywer, Dennis May.

I'm totally serious. How can push for criminal charges against them?