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View Full Version : Lets get the Evangelicals on Our Side!!!




james1844
10-18-2007, 01:51 PM
Hi All,

Evidently key evangelical leaders are planning on meeting at this weeks values voters summit to discuss whether or not to push a 3rd party.

Should we make a push to get them to consider lining up behind Paul? Paul's recent fundraising and poll successes may get them to reconsider their choices.

Here is the link to the story!

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/10/18/christian-conservative-leaders-to-meet-again-on-saturday-about-third-party-candidate/

Best,

James

Primbs
10-18-2007, 01:54 PM
We should make a push. Romney and Rudy don't deserve their support.

Mikakaze
10-18-2007, 01:56 PM
maybe we can get an endorsement from ol' teddy haggard as well?

Danny Molina
10-18-2007, 02:08 PM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

SpicyItalian739
10-18-2007, 02:15 PM
They idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

So, we don't get angry and berate them, we get them to vote for Ron Paul so they can atone for their sins. I voted for Bush twice too because I bought into the football game mentality of politics that I was bombarded with my entire life.

We can't afford to alienate any potential voters.

Edit: Think of it as unplugging people from the Matrix... in the end they WANT our help

james1844
10-18-2007, 02:15 PM
edited

mavtek
10-18-2007, 02:16 PM
They idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

Forgive and forget and let them help get us where we need to be is what I say.

james1844
10-18-2007, 02:21 PM
B-u-m-p!!!!

ButchHowdy
10-18-2007, 02:25 PM
This David Brody guy from CBN has given Ron a very fair shake.

Now, if his bossman Pat Robertson formally endorses Ron, this would be an explosion equal to (or better than) a Dobson Endorsement.

kylebrotherton
10-18-2007, 02:32 PM
maybe we can get an endorsement from ol' teddy haggard as well?

I think he and Larry Craig should be supporting Richardson. = )

james1844
10-18-2007, 03:03 PM
Bump.

SeanEdwards
10-18-2007, 03:13 PM
Having John Hagee and and Dobson endorse Ron Paul is at least as bad as having Alex Jones' and stormfront.org's endorsement.

Fortunately, I don't think those warmongering bible-thumping 'left behind' freaks will ever jump on board. And good riddance.

Grandson of Liberty
10-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Having John Hagee and and Dobson endorse Ron Paul is at least as bad as having Alex Jones' and stormfront.org's endorsement.

Fortunately, I don't think those warmongering bible-thumping 'left behind' freaks will ever jump on board. And good riddance.

you could not be more wrong.

james1844
10-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Reagan won on an alliance between religious conservatives and small government types. No reason we can't do the same.

Please folks, make the call!

jb4ronpaul
10-18-2007, 04:00 PM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

Some of the most active and dedicated people in our meetup are evangelicals and conservative Christians. Yes I supported Bush in the past but we are extra motivated to fight against him because we feel we are repenting for past sins. :)

Us Christians especially need to work really hard to make at least a few Christian leader realize how the freedom message is the true Christian message.

shepburn
10-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

they were deceived by War Propaganda/ Patriotism ... but now many are awakening ... don't dismiss this group!

libertygrl
10-18-2007, 05:16 PM
I think the only sticking point with the Evangelicals is Ron Paul's stance on the war. I may be wrong, but I think it's because they are under this mentality that we are defending Christianity against Islam. Therefore, getting out of Iraq without a clear victory must be something that they don't even want to consider.

I feel that the Evangelicals are well meaning people, so please don't slam them for their beliefs. As within any large group you are going to have some who are extremists and those who are more reasonable. They were used by Karl Rove to get Bush elected, as we were all lied to about the reasons for going into war. We woke up to the trechery, and now it's our job to awaken others. Not in an aggressive manner but by simply showing them the facts and appealing to their Christian Faith.

I believe the following article does just that. My meetup group recently copied it and mailed it out to hundreds of churches in my area. I personally believe it's very powerful and insightful and will get people to rethink some of their positions. (If they truly are "Christian" in their beliefs that is!):

Ron Paul is the only pro-life, pro-peace Presidential Candidate

By Patrick Daniel Krey

As a Catholic, it is easy to become frustrated with U.S. national politics and the two-party system. One party claims to be pro-life, but flagrantly disregards the accepted Christian doctrine of “Just War” while the opposition party claims to be pro-peace but supports the violent killing of the unborn. How can a party that claims to be pro-family advocate a policy that results in families being torn apart when sons and daughters are sent off to fight and die or be terribly injured in nebulous wars with no end in sight? How can a party that claims to stand up for the poor and downtrodden promote a policy that results in 1.37 million abortions of the weakest members of our society per year in this country?

I felt that there would never be a national voice that would understand these tragic contradictions. That was until I was pleasantly surprised to discover the candidacy of Republican Ron Paul. Ron Paul is the only candidate who was against the Iraq War from the start and has the strongest record on pro-life issues. As a medical doctor with a 40-year career, Ron Paul has delivered over 4,000 babies, and as a Congressman, Dr. Paul has authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception.

Ron Paul also sponsored legislation that would negate the effect of Roe v. Wade by removing the ability of the federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. In addition, Ron Paul understands the Just War doctrine and recognizes the inherent danger of adopting a doctrine of preemption. Shortly after Pope John Paul II’s death, Ron Paul remembered him on the floor of the House of Representatives and stated “I would encourage those who wish to honor his memory to reflect on his teachings regarding war and the sanctity of life, and consider the inconsistencies in claiming to be pro-life but supporting the senseless killing of innocent people that inevitably accompanies militarism, or in claiming to be pro-peace and pro-compassion but supporting the legal killing of the unborn.”

I have never before seen such an impressive candidate whose compassion and morals parallel that of my own faith. I encourage others to learn more about Ron Paul, and I personally recommend the website http://catholicsforronpaul.blogspot.com/ where you can find more information.

I personally believe that his message of both peace AND life are strong enough to deliver him to victory.

thehittgirl
10-18-2007, 05:52 PM
Some of the most active and dedicated people in our meetup are evangelicals and conservative Christians. Yes I supported Bush in the past but we are extra motivated to fight against him because we feel we are repenting for past sins. :)

Us Christians especially need to work really hard to make at least a few Christian leader realize how the freedom message is the true Christian message.

Yeah, everyone makes mistakes. Now is their chance to make it right. I was fooled by that person we call our president for a couple of months after he got into office until I could see he was a liar. Many of us were fooled. Not anymore. Time to take our country back.

Matt Collins
10-18-2007, 11:12 PM
We should get copies of the RP statement of faith, and flyer every church parking lot we can on Sunday mornings.


Also, see this on the best way to market Ron Paul:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=25536

princessredtights
10-19-2007, 12:03 AM
I think the only sticking point with the Evangelicals is Ron Paul's stance on the war. I may be wrong, but I think it's because they are under this mentality that we are defending Christianity against Islam. Therefore, getting out of Iraq without a clear victory must be something that they don't even want to consider.

I feel that the Evangelicals are well meaning people, so please don't slam them for their beliefs. As within any large group you are going to have some who are extremists and those who are more reasonable. They were used by Karl Rove to get Bush elected, as we were all lied to about the reasons for going into war. We woke up to the trechery, and now it's our job to awaken others. Not in an aggressive manner but by simply showing them the facts and appealing to their Christian Faith.

I believe the following article does just that. My meetup group recently copied it and mailed it out to hundreds of churches in my area. I personally believe it's very powerful and insightful and will get people to rethink some of their positions. (If they truly are "Christian" in their beliefs that is!):

Ron Paul is the only pro-life, pro-peace Presidential Candidate

By Patrick Daniel Krey

As a Catholic, it is easy to become frustrated with U.S. national politics and the two-party system. One party claims to be pro-life, but flagrantly disregards the accepted Christian doctrine of “Just War” while the opposition party claims to be pro-peace but supports the violent killing of the unborn. How can a party that claims to be pro-family advocate a policy that results in families being torn apart when sons and daughters are sent off to fight and die or be terribly injured in nebulous wars with no end in sight? How can a party that claims to stand up for the poor and downtrodden promote a policy that results in 1.37 million abortions of the weakest members of our society per year in this country?

I felt that there would never be a national voice that would understand these tragic contradictions. That was until I was pleasantly surprised to discover the candidacy of Republican Ron Paul. Ron Paul is the only candidate who was against the Iraq War from the start and has the strongest record on pro-life issues. As a medical doctor with a 40-year career, Ron Paul has delivered over 4,000 babies, and as a Congressman, Dr. Paul has authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception.

Ron Paul also sponsored legislation that would negate the effect of Roe v. Wade by removing the ability of the federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. In addition, Ron Paul understands the Just War doctrine and recognizes the inherent danger of adopting a doctrine of preemption. Shortly after Pope John Paul II’s death, Ron Paul remembered him on the floor of the House of Representatives and stated “I would encourage those who wish to honor his memory to reflect on his teachings regarding war and the sanctity of life, and consider the inconsistencies in claiming to be pro-life but supporting the senseless killing of innocent people that inevitably accompanies militarism, or in claiming to be pro-peace and pro-compassion but supporting the legal killing of the unborn.”

I have never before seen such an impressive candidate whose compassion and morals parallel that of my own faith. I encourage others to learn more about Ron Paul, and I personally recommend the website http://catholicsforronpaul.blogspot.com/ where you can find more information.

I personally believe that his message of both peace AND life are strong enough to deliver him to victory.



There's a nifty group to check out - www.believersagainstthewar.org . I just went to the Fall Forum tonight!

GeorgiaRPFan
10-19-2007, 05:43 AM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

Give them credit for realizing their mistake and working to correct it.

ValidusCustodiae
10-19-2007, 06:42 AM
I think the only sticking point with the Evangelicals is Ron Paul's stance on the war. I may be wrong, but I think it's because they are under this mentality that we are defending Christianity against Islam. Therefore, getting out of Iraq without a clear victory must be something that they don't even want to consider.


It's not the defense of Christianity against Islam that is paramount to these evangelicals. Their greatest concern is Israel. The other day I was talking to my aunt who is very fundamentalist Christian, and she believes as many of them do that any nation that turns its back on Israel is doomed. They have been indoctrinated with the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people and that the State of Israel is ordained by God or some B.S. such as that. I won't speculate as to why these factors are so prevalent, but I will say that it's going to be nearly impossible for Ron Paul with his anti-Israeli aid position to win over most evangelicals. I'm pretty sure they'd rather side with a flipflop like Romney as long as whoever it is has an anti-abortion and pro-Israel stance at the moment.

Good luck, they're going to see you as the devil when you come telling them to give up on helping Israel. They've been taught to.

ValidusCustodiae
10-19-2007, 06:45 AM
I think some of you too easily confuse Christians with Evangelical Christians. Before I get flamed, let me make that distinction. Christians (non-Evangelical ones) are going to tend to be much more receptive to our message. It's the Evangelical holier-than-thou public policy influencers that are not going to concede when it comes to our support of Israel. I just wanted to throw that in with my previous post.

wgadget
10-19-2007, 06:53 AM
Sometimes just asking them if they don't think God is in control and canl take care of Israel himself will make them stop and think. Then ask them if it's "moral" to bankrupt our own country in the name of endless war.

JenHarris
10-19-2007, 07:04 AM
Could we not just spin the whole Israel thing like this:

When America stops giving aid to Israel, America loses its say in Israel polices. This gives Israel the freedom and power to handle its own issues how it sees fit.

I'm no expert, and I certainly haven't argued with any fundamentalist Christians lately so no cue if that works or not.

apropos
10-19-2007, 07:22 AM
Another sticking point for the evangelicals is that with smaller government, they will be left alone to practice their beliefs. They won't have to worry about trial lawyers from the ACLU dictating what constitutes hate speech.

Also, the spirit of the 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion' was to protect worshipers from the overbearing influence of government. The Reformation in England, where Catholicism was outlawed overnight and forced conversions took place, is something the Founders were well aware of and took steps to prevent. Evangelicals should be reminded of that.

LibertyEagle
10-19-2007, 08:14 AM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

Yes, and their options were just sooooooooooooo much better. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

LibertyEagle
10-19-2007, 08:17 AM
It's not the defense of Christianity against Islam that is paramount to these evangelicals. Their greatest concern is Israel. The other day I was talking to my aunt who is very fundamentalist Christian, and she believes as many of them do that any nation that turns its back on Israel is doomed. They have been indoctrinated with the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people and that the State of Israel is ordained by God or some B.S. such as that. I won't speculate as to why these factors are so prevalent, but I will say that it's going to be nearly impossible for Ron Paul with his anti-Israeli aid position to win over most evangelicals. I'm pretty sure they'd rather side with a flipflop like Romney as long as whoever it is has an anti-abortion and pro-Israel stance at the moment.

Good luck, they're going to see you as the devil when you come telling them to give up on helping Israel. They've been taught to.

You are depicting the situation erroneously. Dr. Paul is not anti-Israel. He is against giving ANY country foreign aid. That does not equate to being against Israel. Israel has plenty of weapons, not to mention nukes, to defend themselves. If they would untie the apron strings with us, they would be free to do what they felt they needed to do to protect themselves, without getting our approval.

It's not like Israel would stop getting aid from Americans. Anyone who wanted to donate their own money towards helping Israel, could still do so. There are PLENTY of those people, charities and other organizations.

Adamsa
10-19-2007, 08:20 AM
Yes, and their options were just sooooooooooooo much better. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thats what is truly sad.

LibertyEagle
10-19-2007, 08:21 AM
Here's what I wish. I wish the campaign would start taking better advantage of some of the great speakers that are out there who support Paul. People like that preacher from Alabama. Remember him? Also, Pastor Chuck Baldwin. He writes about Ron Paul all the time and has a radio show. These are the types of people who could get through to some of these evangelicals. I wish the campaign would get them stumping for Paul.

rpfreedom08
10-19-2007, 08:22 AM
Having John Hagee and and Dobson endorse Ron Paul is at least as bad as having Alex Jones' and stormfront.org's endorsement.

Fortunately, I don't think those warmongering bible-thumping 'left behind' freaks will ever jump on board. And good riddance.

you have no idea what you are talking about. How does it feel to be completely ignorant?

Primbs
10-19-2007, 08:23 AM
Ron Paul was the one congressman in the 80s not to condemn Israel for bombing Iraq's nuclear reactor. That may make him the best friend Israel has.

If it were to become politically expedient to dump Israel, many politicians would dump Israel, but you know Dr. Paul would be the one vote saying Israel has the right to exist and defend itself.

Dr. Paul may be the only true friend Israel has because he doesn't push for unworkable peace plans that coerce Israel to do things that would jeopardize Israel's defense.

micahnelson
10-19-2007, 08:23 AM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

<----- Voted for Bush not once, but twice.

unklejman
10-19-2007, 08:32 AM
Those idiots got us in this current mess. They voted for Bush not once but TWICE!

Who's they? I voted for no such candidate and I REALLY don't appreciate being called an idiot. I voted for Peroutka thanks....

Andrew76
10-19-2007, 08:43 AM
If a salivating, power hungry theocrat like Pat Robertson formally endorsed Ron Paul, and Ron Paul accepted it, I'll state it loud and clear, here and now: I would immediately turn around and start telling everyone I know to NOT vote for Ron Paul. Pat Robertson is a snake. His motivation is no better than any power and influence hungry politician out there, parading as a good and righteous person, "serving His will." Please. :rolleyes:

Churchmen who seek political power and influence are in my mind, the lowest of the low. Last time I checked, christianity was about humility, meekness and charity not about pride, power and influence. Their motivation must seriously be questioned. Furthermore, the rationality of the evangelical movement must also be seriously examined. They're support for Israel exists because it has to do with the "second coming of Christ." In a nutshell, they believe that Israel needs our assistance so that certain prophecies can come true. ie: jews from around the world will soon return to the "holy land." At some certain stage of critical mass, and temples rebuilt, this will usher in the second coming of Christ, and the end of the world.

I have serious doubts about true evangelicals support Ron Paul because he doesn't believe Israel needs our help anymore. How then will we be able to usher in the "End Times," without our support for Israel?

tfelice
10-19-2007, 08:49 AM
I think some of you too easily confuse Christians with Evangelical Christians. Before I get flamed, let me make that distinction. Christians (non-Evangelical ones) are going to tend to be much more receptive to our message. It's the Evangelical holier-than-thou public policy influencers that are not going to concede when it comes to our support of Israel. I just wanted to throw that in with my previous post.

Correction for you. Its the Dispensationalists that are not likely to concede regarding support to Israel. Dispensationalists are segment of Evangelical Christianity. There are plenty of us who hold to Covenent Theology that don't feel the same way.

micahnelson
10-19-2007, 08:52 AM
If a salivating, power hungry theocrat like Pat Robertson formally endorsed Ron Paul, and Ron Paul accepted it, I'll state it loud and clear, here and now: I would immediately turn around and start telling everyone I know to NOT vote for Ron Paul.

And why is that, do you think Ron Paul would change?

kpfareal
10-19-2007, 08:52 AM
There are plenty of us who hold to Covenent Theology that don't feel the same way.

Me included.

LibertyEagle
10-19-2007, 08:58 AM
If a salivating, power hungry theocrat like Pat Robertson formally endorsed Ron Paul, and Ron Paul accepted it, I'll state it loud and clear, here and now: I would immediately turn around and start telling everyone I know to NOT vote for Ron Paul. Pat Robertson is a snake. His motivation is no better than any power and influence hungry politician out there, parading as a good and righteous person, "serving His will." Please. :rolleyes:



I'm sorry, but that's just nuts. Paul is a separate person from anyone who might endorse him for President. You know, just like he is separate from the Stormtroop-type folks.

Even people who are considered by many to have rather distasteful views, apparently see the benefit in reinstating the Constitution and individual liberty. Have you forgotten the whole thing about freedom bringing us together? We do not have to agree with all the viewpoints of the supporters; we come together in support of Liberty.

thehittgirl
10-19-2007, 09:10 AM
I'm sorry, but that's just nuts. Paul is a separate person from anyone who might endorse him for President. You know, just like he is separate from the Stormtroop-type folks.

Even people who are considered by many to have rather distasteful views, apparently see the benefit in reinstating the Constitution and individual liberty. Have you forgotten the whole thing about freedom bringing us together? We do not have to agree with all the viewpoints of the supporters; we come together in support of Liberty.

Yep. I'm a Christian and not too keen on a few of the leaders' opinions, but would gladly welcome their support. We need it

M.Bellmore
10-19-2007, 09:12 AM
Is anyone covering the Value Voters summit in DC today? Don't forget to vote in their strawpoll (costs $1)

manny
10-19-2007, 09:12 AM
I'm sorry, but that's just nuts. Paul is a separate person from anyone who might endorse him for President. You know, just like he is separate from the Stormtroop-type folks.

Even people who are considered by many to have rather distasteful views, apparently see the benefit in reinstating the Constitution and individual liberty. Have you forgotten the whole thing about freedom bringing us together? We do not have to agree with all the viewpoints of the supporters; we come together in support of Liberty.


Exactly. And that is why freedom has always been scarce in history and requires bravery and determination. It is not an easy ideology to put forward. It does sound nice and as such is, like the word 'democracy', appropriated by totalitarian states, but real freedom ultimately means you must accept people doing/saying things you disagree with and know that your accepting them saying it does not mean you agree with it.
Sounds easy but isn't since this "guilt by association" smear will only be brought up when extremists voice their support for a candidate. There is no need for people to say they'll stop supporting RP if he is endorsed by 'so and so' since it doesn't alter the message.
Finding that people you disagree with (especially on something like religion which shouldn't be a state matter) also support Ron Paul ought to be a cause of celebration not anger.