best way to convert democrats to our side?

[surf]

poll: how to get Ds on our side in 2012
Ds are warmongers
Ds are anti-civil liberties (drug war, surveilance, etc.)
Taxes are to high, reg's too much
Failure of current admin to follow through on promises (Guantanemo)
End the Fed
Combination of above
Other

[AuH20]

Wipe their memories. But that would be fascist. :rolleyes::D

[RedStripe]

Point out how a radically free market would basically be the worst thing ever for rich people.

[Maximus]

While I agree that it depends on the person. The war is the single biggest issue for most of them.

"Ending the Fed" "Civil Liberities" etc are good, but I talk about those only after establishing common ground on the war. I also like to bring up Obama's lack of transparency, and how in many ways in terms of transparency he has been worse than Bush.

[Seraphim]

Make sure they understand that private business is not out to get them, and that free enterprise is PEOPLE serving PEOPLE in a circular mutally reinforcing manner. Not a top down systematic enslavement. The last part is misunderstood. The engine of socialism is debt based fiat currency.

Most socialist views come from a brainwashed mentality that uncoersed free enterprise results in wealth gaps and control. It's quite the opposite. PEOPLE serving PEOPLE. That is what free enterprise is. Govt control in the economy is what results in wealth gaps do to preferencial regulations and the direction of the deficit dollars to the companies and interest THEY want.

[ChaosControl]

Depends on what issues they find most important.

If it is corporatism, point out how most all regulations are written by corporations for the benefit of corporations and how centralized government leads to corporate control of government.

If it is civil liberties or war, then yes point out those. It will vary from person to person. In the end no one is going to agree on everything, but they can at least be shown how their party doesn't do what they think it does.

[sevin]

You would think war would be the best arguments, but a lot of dems who used to be really anti-war have been brainwashed into believing this war is necessary (or the terrorists will get us).

The issue of civil liberties seems to make an impact on most of them.

[acptulsa]

To a great, great many, the mere fact that our Secretary of Agriculture, Tom Vilsack, was once CEO of Monsanto is enough to leave them unable to deny that their hope for change went unfulfilled. This is as good as the war, imo.

[AuH20]

Dems have little respect for the concept of private property. That's really a key building block in explaining our philosophy. I don't know how you reach them and break down that barrier.

[acptulsa]

Dems have little respect for the concept of private property. That's really a key building block in explaining our philosophy. I don't know how you reach them and break down that barrier.

Well, who says you need to? The Democratic Party is plenty sufficiently--and obviously--in bed with the corporations, and this alone can lead them to understand that any vote against the status quo is a good vote.

Provided, of course, they aren't LINO's.

[Romulus]

How do you reach someone with Stockholm Syndrome?

[Romulus]

To a great, great many, the mere fact that our Secretary of Agriculture, Tom Vilsack, was once CEO of Monsanto is enough to leave them unable to deny that their hope for change went unfulfilled. This is as good as the war, imo.

And a D might say, this is why the Gov must own and control the corporations, so they cant take over the government. :confused::D

[silverhandorder]

By showing to them how regulations hurt economy and everyone else.

[acptulsa]

How do you reach someone with Stockholm Syndrome?

LOL.

The only anti-brainwashing technique I've heard of that isn't rather antisocial is education, education, education.


And a D might say, this is why the Gov must own and control the corporations, so they cant take over the government. :confused::D

Indeed they will. But if we can't demolish that screwy argument by now, we don't deserve to be put in charge of a Quik Trip.

[AuH20]

Ask them how the omnipotent federal government, supposedly the de facto entity that can only stop corporate malfeasance, has done actually more to increase corporate theft and control, then prevent such crimes? ;)

[acptulsa]

Ask them how the omnipotent federal government, supposedly the de facto entity that can only stop corporate malfeasance, has done actually more to increase corporate theft and control then prevent such crimes? ;)

Now you're getting the idea. And when (not if) they get offended and move to the attack, just say, 'Tom Vilsack.'

Right under their defenses.

[wormyguy]

Ds are warmongers
Ds are anti-civil liberties (drug war, surveilance, etc.)

These are the only two of the ones you mentioned that would be effective for Dems. The problem is that Dems are first of all convinced that their congressman/senator/president really does care about those issues, but has his/her hands tied by the evil Republicans. They also consider things like "free" health care, not to even mention CRA 1964 and ADA to be "civil liberties."

[AuH20]

Now you're getting the idea. And when (not if) they get offended and move to the attack, just say, 'Tom Vilsack.'

Right under their defenses.

How many indictments were there made for the 2008 financial scandals? Zero. Why did the SEC and OTS not ring a single bell until after the incidents transpired? :D;)

[HOLLYWOOD]

Shove the Shitty Health Care with even higher prices/taxes down their throats and say, "I told you so, you fuckin idiot zombies!"

[acptulsa]

How many indictments were there made for the 2008 financial scandals? Zero. Why did the SEC and OTS not ring a single bell until after the incidents transpired? :D;)

Thought you said you didn't know how to convert them? Tricky to ensure they get mad at the ones who betrayed their trust, rather than us, but as to the proper ammunition I see you have all of it close at hand. :cool:

[oyarde]

Shove the Shitty Health Care with even higher prices/taxes down their throats and say, "I told you so, you fuckin idiot zombies!"

Pretty good . Dems are mostly communists and socialists, they do not really care about civil liberties .

[Romulus]

They are pro civil liberty, so remind them that pro civil liberty is pro economic liberty!


LOL.

The only anti-brainwashing technique I've heard of that isn't rather antisocial is education, education, education.



Indeed they will. But if we can't demolish that screwy argument by now, we don't deserve to be put in charge of a Quik Trip.

Logic does not apply them... solid arguments are not comprehended, but illogically twisted. You'd have better luck reasoning with neocons who aren't all that religious.

Lots of progressives are PRO Federal Reserve... I just say to them, if the Fed is so fundamental and competent, then how come they did not see this crisis coming and can not recover from it? Then discuss the dollar. :)

[libertybrewcity]

It definitely depends who they are and where they are from? Are they a San Francisco Dem or a Kentucky Dem? An elderly Dem or a young Dem? A Black Dem or a white Dem?

It really makes a difference.

[MN Patriot]

Democrats are hopeless. A bunch of envious, spiteful malcontents. We live in the most prosperous country in the world, with boundless opportunities, and Democrats whine and complain about people who have worked hard. When the civil war erupts, it will between them and those of us who favor liberty. Good thing they don't like guns.

[oyarde]

It definitely depends who they are and where they are from? Are they a San Francisco Dem or a Kentucky Dem? An elderly Dem or a young Dem? A Black Dem or a white Dem?

It really makes a difference.

Good observation , but those groups will be guilty of wanting Fed influence in social issues/views that are states issues , wanting handouts , Fed involvement/spending in education etc.

[Knightskye]

Point out how a radically free market would basically be the worst thing ever for rich people.

Yes.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

call 911 on them

[RforRevolution]

They are pro civil liberty, so remind them that pro civil liberty is pro economic liberty!



Logic does not apply them... solid arguments are not comprehended, but illogically twisted. You'd have better luck reasoning with neocons who aren't all that religious.

Lots of progressives are PRO Federal Reserve... I just say to them, if the Fed is so fundamental and competent, then how come they did not see this crisis coming and can not recover from it? Then discuss the dollar. :)

You should also point out that the introductions of central banks and, subsequently, monetary inflation historically coincides with BIG wars. That might make them think a little bit more.

[Deborah K]

People generally fall into one of two categories: individualists, or collectivists. Ask your Democrat friend which category he/she falls under. Ayn Rand puts it this way:


“From the beginning of history, two antagonists have stood face to face, two opposite types of men: the Active and the Passive. The Active Man is the producer, the creator, the originator, the individualist. His basic need is independence — in order to think and work. He neither needs nor seeks power over other men — nor can he be made to work under any form of compulsion. Every type of good work — from laying bricks to writing a symphony — is done by the Active Man. Degrees of human ability vary, but the basic principle remains the same: the degree of a man's independence and initiative determines his talent as a worker and his worth as a man.

The Passive Man is found on every level of society, in mansions and in slums, and his identification mark is his dread of independence. He is a parasite who expects to be taken care of by others, who wishes to be given directives, to obey, to submit, to be regulated, to be told. He welcomes collectivism, which eliminates any chance that he might have to think or act on his own initiative.

The history of mankind is the history of the struggle between the Active Man and the Passive, between the individual and the collective. The countries which have produced the happiest men, the highest standards of living and the greatest cultural advances have been the countries where the power of the collective — of the government, of the state — was limited and the individual was given freedom of independent action. As examples: The rise of Rome, with its conception of law based on a citizen's rights, over the collectivist barbarism of its time. The rise of England, with a system of government based on the Magna Carta, over collectivist, totalitarian Spain. The rise of the United States to a degree of achievement unequaled in history — by grace of the individual freedom and independence which our Constitution gave each citizen against the collective.” *


Ed Griffin puts it this way:


Collectivists view the group as an entity of its own with rights of its own. Therefore, it is acceptable to sacrifice individuals if necessary, for the greater good. But, this begs the question: who gets to choose who will be sacrificed for the greater good? The government does, of course, because the government is the ultimate group. The government is more important than the individual. Collectivists believe that rights come from governments. Griffin states that when governments claim to derive their authority from any source other than the governed, it always leads to the destruction of liberty.


The method by which the government intends to fulfill its objectives diametrically opposes individual freedom. If allowed to go unfettered history has proven, a collectivist government will eventually become a totalitarian regime because as long as people don’t see themselves as individuals but rather as members of a race, class, gender, creed, sexual preference, etc., they can be easily manipulated by those in control who deliberately incite conflict among the groups to keep us divided and distracted.

[MN Patriot]

You should also point out that the introductions of central banks and, subsequently, monetary inflation historically coincides with BIG wars. That might make them think a little bit more.

Democrats don't think. They CARE. Or at least they try to make us think they care.

Democrats are hopeless, waste of time trying to DELIBERATELY convince them. Some of them might have enough intelligence to come to terms with their numerous contradictions. But few do.

Democrats are a lost cause. Our only hope is to outnumber them.

[Michigan11]

To convert Dem's: Start spreading rumors Big G is already bouncing checks, and that it's on a rotating cycle by social security numbers. "the only way to stop this madness is to get as many revolutionaries like Paul into office as soon as possible or as elections permit"...

[MelissaCato]

Hand them a US Constitution and have them read Article IV Section 4. :D

[ClayTrainor]

I think the best way to reach individuals from any political spectrum is to avoid arguments from effect and focus on arguments from morality.

[osan]

poll: how to get Ds on our side in 2012
Ds are warmongers
Ds are anti-civil liberties (drug war, surveilance, etc.)
Taxes are to high, reg's too much
Failure of current admin to follow through on promises (Guantanemo)
End the Fed
Combination of above
Other

I'd say killing them would be most effective. :)

[Philhelm]

I'd say killing them would be most effective. :)

Heh, I suppose that would fall under "other". :D

[KramerDSP]

This video I made a few months ago was well received by many of my friends on the left. The goal of the video was to dispel common myths about Ron Paul and hammer home the idea of a Transition Plan.

YouTube - Ron Paul's Transition Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3iK6Hy6xMA&feature=player_embedded)

[Deborah K]

This video I made a few months ago was well received by many of my friends on the left. The goal of the video was to dispel common myths about Ron Paul and hammer home the idea of a Transition Plan.

YouTube - Ron Paul's Transition Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3iK6Hy6xMA&feature=player_embedded)

Kramer that clip is excellent!!! Bravo!!!

[Romulus]

Awesome Vid!

[Working Poor]

Pro legaliation.

[acptulsa]

I'd say killing them would be most effective. :)

And they feel the same way about us. Which makes those in government quite happy--as long as we're at each others' throats, the powers that be are quite safe from either one of us.

This year, unlike in 2008, real, heartfelt liberals are feeling betrayed as hell and are seriously pissed off. Just as we predicted they would be by now. And while they may yell and cry when we say 'I told you so', I don't hear any of them denying it.

If you think your new allies are lemons, make lemonade.

[romacox]

Find out what interests them the most, and then produce documentation showing how government bureaucracy actually created the problem.

one example: I they feel we would be in danger without the FDA, show them how the FDA is in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies to protect their interests rather than the American public. Monsanto is a perfect example

[acptulsa]

Find out what interests them the most, and then produce documentation showing how government bureaucracy actually created the problem.

one example: I they feel we would be in danger without the FDA, show them how the FDA is in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies to protect their interests rather than the American public. Monsanto is a perfect example...

...and the Secretary of Agriculture appointed by their 'hope for change' is still loaded to his gills with Monsanto stock.

Exactly. Just show such an example, and when their eyes fill with vitriol and they start to spit venom, ask them if they're still hoping for change. They might blow a gasket, but they won't admit to still hoping for change. They're pissed--at their own 'leaders'--and if we don't capitalize we're damned fools.

[acptulsa]

Oh, and perhaps most important of all--remember that it isn't our job (or even the slightest advantage to us or the nation) to make excuses for the neocons.

We have something in common with them--we don't for a second (as a rule) think Dubya did anything right. That's a good place to start.

[pcosmar]

I expect some of the MK-Ultra Mind Control techniques might work.
I am not in favor of using these methods.
just sayin'.
;)