Is hiding your political beliefs to those you know in person wrong?

[Vessol]

Recently I've been talking with a girl that I'm fairly interested in. When the topic came to the military I mentioned I almost joined the Army. I was then caught in the problem of trying to explain to her why I didn't.

I live in a military town with a very large and strong neocon base.
I had the decision whether I was going to tell her the truth, that I thought the military was a immoral entity that worked for the interest of a few rich men. And while I wished no ill on soldiers, nor do I hold them to be heroes and that I myself could not live with myself morally if I did this. Or if I was just going to tell her some vague reasoning. I chose the later sadly. Perhaps if it leads to anything I'll exlain sometime later.

I'm constantly tied in my personal dealings with many people to try not to offend them. I used to not care and freely speak my mind, but this lead to losing a friend in person. I've also lost a friend over things I've said on Facebook.
I guess people get it in their mind thanks to conditioning that if they say that I'm anti-government that I am some crazy violent person whom hates everything that they stand for.

Usually if its some strangers, I don't mind speaking my mind. But if it someone whom I don't want to think of me negatively I hold my tongue. Probably the only person I talk about it freely is my mother whom shares my views for the most part.

[RedStripe]

It's not "wrong" - it's perfectly normal.

[FrankRep]

Are you against having a Strong National Defense?

[forsmant]

Politics at work is bad for morale. Still some beliefs will bleed through the monotony of work day.

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If somebody didn't want to associate with me because of my political views then I'd probably not count that as any great loss.

[oyarde]

Recently I've been talking with a girl that I'm fairly interested in. When the topic came to the military I mentioned I almost joined the Army. I was then caught in the problem of trying to explain to her why I didn't.

I live in a military town with a very large and strong neocon base.
I had the decision whether I was going to tell her the truth, that I thought the military was a immoral entity that worked for the interest of a few rich men. And while I wished no ill on soldiers, nor do I hold them to be heroes and that I myself could not live with myself morally if I did this. Or if I was just going to tell her some vague reasoning. I chose the later sadly. Perhaps if it leads to anything I'll exlain sometime later.

I'm constantly tied in my personal dealings with many people to try not to offend them. I used to not care and freely speak my mind, but this lead to losing a friend in person. I've also lost a friend over things I've said on Facebook.
I guess people get it in their mind thanks to conditioning that if they say that I'm anti-government that I am some crazy violent person whom hates everything that they stand for.

Usually if its some strangers, I don't mind speaking my mind. But if it someone whom I don't want to think of me negatively I hold my tongue. Probably the only person I talk about it freely is my mother whom shares my views for the most part.

I do not know if this will help you , but I will tell you how I handle this . I avoid it only if work related and I feel like it could be held against me . In the case of a potential girlfriend , friends , etc . , I think honesty is the best way to go . I have good friends and we can discuss anything even if in disagreement . With a potential girlfriend , definately start out on the right foot and be honest .

[Legend1104]

I have neo con in laws and I often keep my opinions to myself about certain issues that are brought up, but you would have to understand my in-laws and the subjects discussed to understand where I am coming from.

[Vessol]

Oh I'm always honest with a girl and my friends, just when it comes to my beliefs I don't say something false, rather I go around them instead of outright stating them.

[oyarde]

Oh I'm always honest with a girl and my friends, just when it comes to my beliefs I don't say something false, rather I go around them instead of outright stating them.

Oh , it is much more fun to state them .

[brandon]

You don't need to go out of your way to bring the subjects up, but if your pressed for your beliefs and can't own up to them, that's pretty weak.

[Fredom101]

Dating with these beliefs and morals is TOUGH, I can tell you that....honesty is the best policy, however. You may not want to use strong words but just tell her exactly why you did not join, and if she doesn't respect you, she's definitely not worth hanging around with. Telling her now after the fact I think would be a good thing and it would show you are an honest person...keep in mind that WE are the normal ones, the crazy people are the ones who believe that killing in the name of a flag is a good thing.

[Agorism]

At work it makes perfect sense. You don't want to go out of your way to enrage your colleagues and boss unless you are the boss. Most work places demand some conformity though, and you don't want to go out of your way being loud.

[MelissaCato]

I just out right say what I want to say. But most of the time, I keep quiet in general political conversations in town, the pub, the club, chess club, Republican Club, in the woods (lol) whateva I go actually.

My vice in politics is I go from confidence to arrogance in about one millisecond. Everyone knows this. :cool:

[heavenlyboy34]

Usually I'd rather keep the peace than talk politics. In casual conversation, you're not likely to convert anyone. I prefer to refer people to books than have silly arguments. Plus, a lot of people take politics personally. Talking politics is a good way to lose friends in such cases.

[Agorism]

I don't buy into all these, but they are worth some consideration.

Niccolò Machiavelli's 48 Laws of Power


Law 1 Never outshine the master
Law 2 Never put too much trust in friends, learn how to use enemies
Law 3 Conceal your intentions
Law 4 Always say less than necessary
Law 5 So much depends on reputation. Guard it with your life
Law 6 Court attention at all cost
Law 7 Get others to do the work for you, but always take the credit
Law 8 Make other people come to you, use bait if necessary
Law 9 Win through your actions, never through argument
Law 10 Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky
Law 11 Learn to keep people dependent on you
Law 12 Use selective honesty and generosity to disarm your victim
Law 13 When asking for help, appeal to people's self-interest, never to their mercy or gratitude
Law 14 Pose as a friend, work as a spy
Law 15 Crush your enemy totally
Law 16 Use absence to increase respect and honor
Law 17 Keep others in suspended terror: cultivate an air of unpredictability
Law 18 Do not build fortresses to protect yourself. Isolation is dangerous
Law 19 Know who you're dealing with, do not offend the wrong person
Law 20 Do not commit to anyone
Law 21 Play a sucker to catch a sucker: play dumber than your mark
Law 22 Use the surrender tactic: transform weakness into power
Law 23 Concentrate your forces
Law 24 Play the perfect courtier
Law 25 Re-create yourself
Law 26 Keep your hands clean
Law 27 Play on people's need to believe to create a cultlike following
Law 28 Enter action with boldness
Law 29 Plan all the way to the end
Law 30 Make your accomplishments seem effortless
Law 31 Control the options: get others to play with the cards you deal
Law 32 Play to people's fantasies
Law 33 Discover each man's thumbscrew
Law 34 Be royal in your fashion: act like a king to be treated like one
Law 35 Master the art of timing
Law 36 Disdain things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best revenge
Law 37 Create compelling spectacles
Law 38 Think as you like but behave like others
Law 39 Stir up waters to catch fish
Law 40 Despise the free lunch
Law 41 Avoid stepping into a great man's shoes
Law 42 Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter
Law 43 Work on the hearts and minds of others
Law 44 Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect
Law 45 Preach the need for change, but never reform too much at Once
Law 46 Never appear perfect
Law 47 Do not go past the mark you aimed for; in victory, learn when to stop
Law 48 Assume formlessness

[klamath]

If you are interested in her be honest. If she disagrees with you and leaves it is for the best ahe does it early. Try and be the person that you actually are so that is what she likes, not some false image you project that you will eventially shed when the relationship is settled. She may not like the person you revert to and the bitterness of the breakup will be greater.

[CUnknown]

I think you shouldn't lie, but don't reveal everything right away. I think you have to gradually bring some people in. If you have reason to believe she would be offended by a blunt and sudden presentation of your beliefs, then you are probably right, we don't know her at all. Maybe she could be slowly brought, maybe not into the fold exactly, but into the fold of people who aren't offended by us.

[oyarde]

I think you shouldn't lie, but don't reveal everything right away. I think you have to gradually bring some people in. If you have reason to believe she would be offended by a blunt and sudden presentation of your beliefs, then you are probably right, we don't know her at all. Maybe she could be slowly brought, maybe not into the fold exactly, but into the fold of people who aren't offended by us.

Who could be offended by us ? :)

[Imaginos]

It's not wrong.
You don't have any moral responsibility to explain your personal philosopy or point of view to anyone.

[Andrew-Austin]

I don't buy into all these, but they are worth some consideration.

Niccolò Machiavelli's 48 Laws of Power

lol those aren't Machiavelli's laws, they are Robert Greene's. You probably knew that though and just mistyped, Robert Greene pretty much is the modern version of Niccolo Machiavelli.

Anyways regarding the subject of the thread I agree with Imaginos:



It's not wrong.
You don't have any moral responsibility to explain your personal philosopy or point of view to anyone.

One shouldn't at all feel obligated to engage in Kung Fu political debate with every person, regardless of their importance to you. There is a right time to discuss certain things, and there are wrong times.

I probably feel the same way about the military as you, and I can easily see myself accidentally getting in to conversations about the subject where I know I shouldn't speak my mind if I want to avoid a nasty verbal conflict. Actually I remember a customer bringing up the very subject while I was working in retail, speaking my mind then could have very likely got me in trouble.

And a few years ago I remember I was in some political science class trying to dispute what the very socialist professor was saying. At the time I foolishly felt obligated to defend my beliefs, even though doing so at such a time and place was bound to make me look like an ass in front of the class. I was reacting because I felt obligated, not arguing tactfully as to how I appeared and was being perceived. I know better now.

[MRoCkEd]

Wait you have the same political views in real life? I thought we were just playing libertarians in this game? :confused:

[Vessol]

Wait you have the same political views in real life? I thought we were just playing libertarians in this game? :confused:

I'm a lvl 23 Voluntaryist. I hope to reach the level cap someday so that we can raid the Statist dungeons out there.

[Dreamofunity]

Trying dating a social work major and explaining how you're against welfare/etc. :P

I usually don't bring up politics, mainly because she dislikes politics personally, but she generally knows where I stand. I usually make the case that of course I'd rather cut warfare spending first and keep those dependent afloat, but it can be difficult at tmes.

She thinks its cute when I talk with other interested people though.


My advice would be to join a local group with people of like mind. I recently joined the local YAL group, and actually discussing libertarian issues in person with people that agree and don't think you're crazy is a lot of fun.

[BenIsForRon]

I don't pretend like I know everything, so when I talk politics with people, I always make it clear that my views are just based on my very limited knowledge about this earth, and that I'm always open to other ideas.

If you pretend like you already know everything, and your way of thinking is the only way, then you will turn people off.

[surf]

if you have common ground it will be easier - i.e. if she's a hot pot smoker (i'm pulling for you if she is) you can talk about how ridiculous the war on drugs is. if she thinks her taxes are too high you can casually explain about the $ trillions spent overseas. if she is pro-civil liberties you can discuss your disappointment in the gov't that way.

if you can't find common ground and she's just super hot - bite your tongue :)

[JCF]

Not really, people in my family hold grudges, god knows why; and all are left leaning individuals who scoff at the idea of no government, or even small government.

My girlfriend knows a little bit about my political beliefs. She seems slightly interested in politics but I don't know, sometimes I feel like I don't want to bring her down to my pessimistic level. Then again if I see her vote I want her to be educated, but on the other hand I don't want to brainwash her. I could introduce her to Mankiw or Mises but what good would that do? She's by far an emotional creature and more so set in her ways than any young woman I have ever seen.

--

I believe it's okay in most cases.

[Philhelm]

Me, Sergeant Foster, am a veteran of Iraq, and I personally absolve you of your "crime" of deciding not to join the military. Joining the military should be a personal choice, and does not dictate how patriotic one may be. If military service is expected, or demanded, then how can soldiers fight for "freedom"?

[JeremyDahl]

some things are better kept to yourself, but why have the beliefs if you cannot use them?


if you are talking about a mate... you need someone who will share and help you pass on those beliefs to your offspring.

your choices and beliefs make up who you are, you cannot repress that.

be proud and intelligent...


we are all free, just restricted

[Philhelm]

some things are better kept to yourself, but why have the beliefs if you cannot use them?


if you are talking about a mate... you need someone who will share and help you pass on those beliefs to your offspring.

your choices and beliefs make up who you are, you cannot repress that.

be proud and intelligent...


we are all free, just restricted

Well, if what you say is true, then I will die cold and alone. :( Let's face it, there is a gender component to politics, and there are more liberty-minded men than women.

[Kregisen]

I think the biggest factor is most people just don't give a shit about politics.

I wouldn't bring up anything. Like someone else said, if she's a pot smoker, then obviously she's gonna agree on the war on drugs. But besides that, I don't think mentioning any of this will give you bonus points. If you're ASKED, then obviously tell the truth, but just keep it to a minimum unless she's interested in politics (unlikely)

It's not a matter of people disagreeing with our beliefs, it's just that they don't care.

[Philhelm]

I think the biggest factor is most people just don't give a shit about politics.

I wouldn't bring up anything. Like someone else said, if she's a pot smoker, then obviously she's gonna agree on the war on drugs. But besides that, I don't think mentioning any of this will give you bonus points. If you're ASKED, then obviously tell the truth, but just keep it to a minimum unless she's interested in politics (unlikely)

It's not a matter of people disagreeing with our beliefs, it's just that they don't care.

It's hard to not bring political issues up. I'd literally give my life for the republic, as it's that important to me. It dismays me when so many people simply don't give a fuck, despite that "politics" affects all of our lives.

[Vessol]

It's hard to not bring political issues up. I'd literally give my life for the republic, as it's that important to me. It dismays me when so many people simply don't give a fuck, despite that "politics" affects all of our lives.

Yes, that's my favorite apolitical excuse "It doesn't effect me!"

[Distinguished Gentleman]

Women are very rarely all that invested in military adventurism. Ann Coulter and that crazy woman who attacked Rand constantly in Kentucky are rare exceptions if not actors. It probably has something to do with evolution but that's beside the point.

" I didn't join the military because I thought much of their actions were wasteful and impractical and I didn't need their help to succeed in life." If she's deeply offended (I highly doubt it) then she was probably poison anyway.

[Philhelm]

Yes, that's my favorite apolitical excuse "It doesn't effect me!"

I hear you!

[Vessol]

Women are very rarely all that invested in military adventurism. Ann Coulter and that crazy woman who attacked Rand constantly in Kentucky are rare exceptions if not actors. It probably has something to do with evolution but that's beside the point.

" I didn't join the military because I thought much of their actions were wasteful and impractical and I didn't need their help to succeed in life." If she's deeply offended (I highly doubt it) then she was probably poison anyway.

Well it's not personal beliefs rather than it is how they are raised and their families. How would you feel if someone told you that your father or mother you admire so much after all these years is not a hero as you have been told they are, and that they are tools used by the State?

[Distinguished Gentleman]

Well it's not personal beliefs rather than it is how they are raised and their families. How would you feel if someone told you that your father or mother you admire so much after all these years is not a hero as you have been told they are, and that they are tools used by the State?

Are her parents in the military? That makes it more complicated.

I have many close friends in the military. I never criticize their institution on moral grounds. Always practical concerns for their well being and practical, strategic grounds for safety and peace. Interestingly, the ones that have been deployed are more open to skepticism than those that are still in the training/ROTC stage.

I market my libertarianism as patriotic, compassionate, and practical.

[newbitech]

Recently I've been talking with a girl that I'm fairly interested in. When the topic came to the military I mentioned I almost joined the Army. I was then caught in the problem of trying to explain to her why I didn't.

I live in a military town with a very large and strong neocon base.
I had the decision whether I was going to tell her the truth, that I thought the military was a immoral entity that worked for the interest of a few rich men. And while I wished no ill on soldiers, nor do I hold them to be heroes and that I myself could not live with myself morally if I did this. Or if I was just going to tell her some vague reasoning. I chose the later sadly. Perhaps if it leads to anything I'll exlain sometime later.

I'm constantly tied in my personal dealings with many people to try not to offend them. I used to not care and freely speak my mind, but this lead to losing a friend in person. I've also lost a friend over things I've said on Facebook.
I guess people get it in their mind thanks to conditioning that if they say that I'm anti-government that I am some crazy violent person whom hates everything that they stand for.

Usually if its some strangers, I don't mind speaking my mind. But if it someone whom I don't want to think of me negatively I hold my tongue. Probably the only person I talk about it freely is my mother whom shares my views for the most part.

I think you have to be happy with who you are before you can be happy with someone else. It is not the problem with the girl that you should be concerned with. The problem you have is a false dilemma because your beliefs are still being sharpened. This I think is the latent issues still lingering from your government conditioning.

Think about it for a second. If this girl is from your town, all she has heard is hurrah this and hurrah that. Maybe she is interested in you because she senses something different. Don't be afraid to be who you are and remember, if you want great rewards, sometimes you must take great risk. First and foremost, be happy with who you are. If you cannot share your beliefs with someone you "like" or care about, then who can you share them with? And if your beliefs are only good enough to share with complete strangers, what does that say about your beliefs? More importantly, what does that say about what YOU believe?

I think its fine to hold back, but at some point, telling the girl that you don't believe in the mission of the military is not political, its who you are.