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Anti Federalist
09-30-2010, 10:04 PM
I have one question:

If this was a government camera, would there be this outrage?

I thought so...



NJ student's suicide illustrates Internet dangers

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i1iMYHMsNbOUJOaBvP10z2VkrP_AD9IIKPUO0?docId= D9IIKPUO0

By GEOFF MULVIHILL and SAMANTHA HENRY (AP) – 59 minutes ago

PISCATAWAY, N.J. — The shocking suicide of a college student whose sex life was broadcast over the Web illustrates yet again the Internet's alarming potential as a means of tormenting others and raises questions whether young people in the age of Twitter and Facebook can even distinguish public from private.

Cruel gossip and vengeful acts once confined to the schoolyard or the dorm can now make their way around the world instantly via the Internet, along with photos and live video.

"It's just a matter of when the next suicide's going to hit, when the next attack's going to hit," said Parry Aftab, a New Jersey lawyer who runs the website WiredSafety.

Last week, Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi jumped to his death from the George Washington Bridge after his roommate and another classmate allegedly used a webcam to secretly broadcast his dorm room sexual encounters with another man. The two classmates have been charged with invasion of privacy, with the most serious charges carrying up to five years in prison.

The suicide of Clementi, a shy, gifted 18-year-old violinist, shocked and disturbed gay rights activists and others on campus.

"Had he been in bed with a woman, this would not have happened," said Rutgers student Lauren Felton, 21, of Warren, N.J. "He wouldn't have been outed via an online broadcast, and his privacy would have been respected and he might still have his life."

The Associated Press found at least 12 cases in the U.S. since 2003 in which children and young adults between 11 and 18 killed themselves after falling victim to some form of "cyberbullying" — teasing, harassing or intimidating with pictures or words distributed online or via text message.

In probably the best-known case, 13-year-old Megan Meier of Daddenne Prairie, Mo., hanged herself in 2006 after she received messages on MySpace — supposedly from a teenage boy — cruelly dumping her. An adult neighbor was later found guilty of taking part in the hoax, but the conviction was overturned.

Earlier this year, 17-year-old Alexis Pilkington of West Islip, N.Y., who had landed a college soccer scholarship, killed herself after receiving a stream of nasty messages.

Gregory Jantz, founder of A Place of Hope, a Seattle mental health care center, said young people who use the Internet to spread something damaging about others often don't realize how hurtful it can be because many of them have grown up in a world that has blurred the line between public and private.

"Our kids are in a different zone now," Jantz said.

Aftab said young people who would never bully someone face to face do it online in part because of the often-false sense of anonymity that the Internet provides.

"They'll also jump on because they don't want to be the next target," Aftab said.

In Clementi's case, prosecutors said that his roommate, Dharun Ravi of Plainsboro, N.J., and Molly Wei of Princeton, N.J., both 18-year-old freshmen, transmitted a live image of Clementi having sex on Sept. 19 and that Ravi tried to webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide. Ravi's lawyer and a lawyer believed to be representing Wei did not return calls.

Luanne Peterpaul, vice chairwoman of the gay rights group Garden State Equality and a former New Jersey prosecutor, said authorities might be able to pursue the case as a hate crime under state law if they are able to establish that the defendants acted because they believed Clementi was gay.

Ravi posted a message on his now-closed Twitter account on Sept. 19: "Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

Prosecutor Bruce J. Kaplan said in a statement: "We will be making every effort to assess whether bias played a role in the incident, and, if so, we will bring appropriate charges."

A lawyer for Clementi's family did not respond to requests for comment on whether Clementi had come out to friends and family about his sexual orientation. He also said the family had no comment.

The mourning continued at Rutgers; in Ridgewood, the suburban New Jersey town where Clementi grew up and attended high school; and across New Jersey.

Clementi's violin teacher for the past five years could not believe he had taken his own life.

"He was a very genuine and, I guess, you could call it a shy person," said Khullip Jeung, 33, who teaches out of his home in Fort Lee. "But when he played the violin, it was different. He had a strong voice. He knew what he wanted to say. And he spoke through his violin. And I think that is the real Tyler that I knew."

Childhood friend Mary Alcaro, who played in a summer music academy with him, said Clementi had been destined for greatness.

"I've never heard anyone make a violin sing the way he did," she said in an e-mail.

Even Gov. Chris Christie had something to say.

"As the father of a 17-year-old, I can't imagine what those parents are feeling today," he said. "Those people who led him to that bridge are going to have to bear that responsibility for the rest of their lives."

Students at West Windsor-Plainsboro Regional High School, from which Ravi and Wei graduated, remembered them as nice people who were not in any way homophobic.

Ravi had gay friends, said Derek Yan, 16, a junior. Yan said he chatted online with Ravi about what college life was like, and Ravi "said he was lucky to have a good roommate. He said his roommate was cool."

t0rnado
09-30-2010, 10:45 PM
There's more to this story. 4chan discovered that this kid had his own gay webcam show way before this incident. He would masturbate in front of other gay men online among other things.

This profile of him was discovered:

Not Safe For Work: http://www.cam4.com/cit2mo/

Gawker confirmed 4chan's find as well: http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-webcam-spying-victim-tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help

If the authorities are going through his computer, they're definitely going to find out that he was a sick motherfucker and had other issues. The kids who are being charged right now were not responsible at all for this loser's death.

Romulus
09-30-2010, 10:47 PM
Or a public schools camera?

Its only a crime when citizens are to blame.

Anti Federalist
09-30-2010, 10:50 PM
There's more to this story. 4chan discovered that this kid had his own gay webcam show way before this incident. He would masturbate in front of other gay men online among other things.

This profile of him was discovered:

Not Safe For Work: http://www.cam4.com/cit2mo/

Gawker confirmed 4chan's find as well: http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-webcam-spying-victim-tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help

If the authorities are going through his computer, they're definitely going to find out that he was a sick motherfucker and had other issues. The kids who are being charged right now were not responsible at all for this loser's death.

Well, chalk one up for the /b/tards then.

cindy25
09-30-2010, 10:50 PM
why did the school put a gay guy and a straight guy in the same dorm room?

Anti Federalist
09-30-2010, 10:52 PM
why did the school put a gay guy and a straight guy in the same dorm room?

To do otherwise would invite lawsuits.

bkreigh
09-30-2010, 11:04 PM
why did the school put a gay guy and a straight guy in the same dorm room?

I never lived in a dorm but im sure the paper work you fill out doesnt have a box next to the words "Straight" or "Gay" then asks you to check one.

In short its not the university's place to ask if somebody is gay or not.

BenIsForRon
09-30-2010, 11:06 PM
why did the school put a gay guy and a straight guy in the same dorm room?

What's wrong with it? Do you think the gay roommate would molest the straight roommate?

t0rnado
09-30-2010, 11:13 PM
What's wrong with it? Do you think the gay roommate would molest the straight roommate?

That's the reasoning that's used to disallow males and females from living in the same dorm rooms, so a straight student could easily make that case.

Vessol
09-30-2010, 11:16 PM
I'm not going to comment on anything else really present in this article except to say that what is the most sad is that this will be used as justification to try to clamp down on internet freedoms even more.

amy31416
09-30-2010, 11:21 PM
There's more to this story. 4chan discovered that this kid had his own gay webcam show way before this incident. He would masturbate in front of other gay men online among other things.

This profile of him was discovered:

Not Safe For Work: http://www.cam4.com/cit2mo/

Gawker confirmed 4chan's find as well: http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-webcam-spying-victim-tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help

If the authorities are going through his computer, they're definitely going to find out that he was a sick motherfucker and had other issues. The kids who are being charged right now were not responsible at all for this loser's death.

Does that make it okay for other students to broadcast his personal life without his consent?

t0rnado
09-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Does that make it okay for other students to broadcast his personal life without his consent?

Rutgers is public property. His tuition and dorm are subsidized or paid for by taxpayers. Anyone should be able to record whatever they want on public property.

The other student did nothing wrong. He simply recorded the activity in his dorm room.

low preference guy
09-30-2010, 11:41 PM
Does that make it okay for other students to broadcast his personal life without his consent?

well, it depends. if you slap your own face, does that make it ok for tornado to also do it?

amy31416
09-30-2010, 11:41 PM
Rutgers is public property. His tuition and dorm are subsidized or paid for by taxpayers. Anyone should be able to record whatever they want on public property.

The other student did nothing wrong. He simply recorded the activity in his dorm room.

He rented that room and requested privacy. The other students admitted to the verbal agreement.

amy31416
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
well, it depends. if you slap your own face, does that make it ok for tornado to also do it?

Apparently!

low preference guy
09-30-2010, 11:42 PM
Anyone should be able to record whatever they want on public property.

wow. so if you take a crap in a public bathroom, i'm allowed to record you? wow.

amy31416
09-30-2010, 11:44 PM
wow. so if you take a crap in a public bathroom, i'm allowed to record you? wow.

Do it.

eOs
09-30-2010, 11:49 PM
wow. so if you take a crap in a public bathroom, i'm allowed to record you? wow.

You won't.

amy31416
09-30-2010, 11:53 PM
You won't.

I think he would.

I think he should....and then broadcast it.

t0rnado
10-01-2010, 12:43 AM
well, it depends. if you slap your own face, does that make it ok for tornado to also do it?

I never used the kid's shortlived amateur porn career as the reasoning as to why it should've been legal to record him. I used it as reasoning to back the fact that he didn't have a problem with being exposed online, so it made no sense to blame his suicide on those kids.


wow. so if you take a crap in a public bathroom, i'm allowed to record you? wow.

You need to define "public bathroom" and then question whether or not you support property rights. If you're taking a shit in the park, I should be able to record you. If I own a store and have a bathroom available to the public, I should be able to record you because it's my property. It would be a bad business decision and I'd go out of business, but because it's my property, it's my choice.

Any couple could just have sex in front of a camera and then claim that their privacy was being invaded.

amy31416
10-01-2010, 07:36 AM
I never used the kid's shortlived amateur porn career as the reasoning as to why it should've been legal to record him. I used it as reasoning to back the fact that he didn't have a problem with being exposed online, so it made no sense to blame his suicide on those kids.



It's pretty obvious that the kid had other issues, and I think the charge of "hate" crime, and blaming them for the suicide is bullshit. But the kids who recorded him and broadcast it without his consent should be charged with invasion of privacy, and whether or not you think he was a "loser" or his prior actions grossed you out is 100% irrelevant--those actions were his choice, this was not. You absolutely implied in your post that this kid was scum of the earth, and thus, the other kids should be completely off the hook. Unless I'm missing the meaning of "those other kids did nothing wrong," as you stated.

But perhaps you think it's okay to rape a prostitute or a woman who's acted "slutty." If so, at least you'd be consistent.

fisharmor
10-01-2010, 07:56 AM
Who cares?

One gay kid commits suicide and the world goes apeshit.

Every day cops are beating up grandmothers and torching and shooting 7 year olds, but nobody seems bothered by that.

When those grandmothers and children get some justice, then I might give a damn about some random tosser with suicidal issues. Not until then.

klamath
10-01-2010, 08:23 AM
The kids were wrong for doing it and I was pissed off that they outed this kid when he wanted his life private. I thought they caused him to jump but not anymore after reading about his sexcam. He wasn't too concerned about his privacy.

t0rnado
10-01-2010, 10:18 AM
It's pretty obvious that the kid had other issues, and I think the charge of "hate" crime, and blaming them for the suicide is bullshit. But the kids who recorded him and broadcast it without his consent should be charged with invasion of privacy, and whether or not you think he was a "loser" or his prior actions grossed you out is 100% irrelevant--those actions were his choice, this was not. You absolutely implied in your post that this kid was scum of the earth, and thus, the other kids should be completely off the hook. Unless I'm missing the meaning of "those other kids did nothing wrong," as you stated.

But perhaps you think it's okay to rape a prostitute or a woman who's acted "slutty." If so, at least you'd be consistent.

Rape involves the use of force. The Ravi kid simply left his laptop on.

osan
10-01-2010, 10:47 AM
I have one question:

If this was a government camera, would there be this outrage?

I thought so...

What a load of crap this is. I am sorry that kid killed himself. Recording/broadcasting the action is reprehensible at the very least and perhaps even criminal on a human rights basis. But pulling out the phony baloney "hate crime" card flies over the line in grand fashion. I'd charge the two with violation of the victim's 4th Amendment right to privacy and let them soak in jail for perhaps 6 months in general population. But to charge them with murder? That is absurd on its face. One can get "caught" at such things at any time, even innocently. If someone walks in on their roommate and finds them in the middle of whatever and the roommate offs himself because he was embarrassed, it cannot be even remotely construed as murder.

"Hate crime" - what a nonsense.

osan
10-01-2010, 11:09 AM
Who cares?

One gay kid commits suicide and the world goes apeshit.

Every day cops are beating up grandmothers and torching and shooting 7 year olds, but nobody seems bothered by that.

You overstate the point - quite wildly I will add.

osan
10-01-2010, 11:15 AM
The kids were wrong for doing it and I was pissed off that they outed this kid when he wanted his life private. I thought they caused him to jump but not anymore after reading about his sexcam. He wasn't too concerned about his privacy.

I partly agree with this, but we should still respect one's partitioning of privacy. One may be OK with certain information being free in certain circles but not in others. One always runs the risk of that info getting "out", so to speak, but those are the breaks. What the other two did was plainly fucked and they should be held accountable for the violations they committed, but not for his death. The boy chose to kill himself. He could have chosen otherwise. I'm sorry he chose as he did, but that's the way shit goes sometimes. Charging those other two assholes with murder is patently insane.

Anti Federalist
10-01-2010, 03:22 PM
Privacy?

Posted by Lew Rockwell on October 1, 2010 02:46 PM

Today on Morning Joe, the assembled rich liberals were bemoaning the loss of privacy, especially as exemplified in the horrific case at Rutgers. But as they went on and on, Twitter! Facebook!!, one subject was never broached: the state. Could the lessened value placed on privacy have anything to do with the institution that claims the right—with the adamant approval of the Morning J’s—to read your email and your mail mail, listen in on your phone calls, keep track of your every move, spy on your hard drives, scan you naked, perform a black bag job on your house, read your mind with the machines it hopes to develop, keep your medical records, and know every dime you earn or spend? All in the name of that synonym for totalitarianism, national security, of course.