Matt Taibbi - "Tea Party is full of @#$%"

[Anti Federalist]

Interesting read from the 15 October issue of the Rolling Stone, released yesterday.

Some money quotes from the multipage article.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0

Course, the whole thing ends in a self affirming rant about how, no matter what the stripe of political affiliation may be, we are all delusional Luddites who yearn for a world of freedom and individual independence that is gone forever and the sooner we all die, the sooner the rest of us can all comfortably assimilate into the Borg hive of new world order globalism.


But after lengthy study of the phenomenon, I've concluded that the whole miserable narrative boils down to one stark fact: They're full of shit. All of them. At the voter level, the Tea Party is a movement that purports to be furious about government spending — only the reality is that the vast majority of its members are former Bush supporters who yawned through two terms of record deficits and spent the past two electoral cycles frothing not about spending but about John Kerry's medals and Barack Obama's Sixties associations. The average Tea Partier is sincerely against government spending — with the exception of the money spent on them

snip


The original Tea Party was launched by a real opponent of the political establishment — Rand Paul's father, Ron, whose grass-roots rallies for his 2008 presidential run were called by that name. The elder Paul will object to this characterization, but what he represents is something of a sacred role in American culture: the principled crackpot. He's a libertarian, but he means it. Sure, he takes typical, if exaggerated, Republican stances against taxes and regulation, but he also opposes federal drug laws ("The War on Drugs is totally out of control" and "All drugs should be decriminalized"), Bush's interventionist wars in the Middle East ("We cannot spread our greatness and our goodness through the barrel of a gun") and the Patriot Act; he even called for legalized prostitution and online gambling.

Paul had a surprisingly good showing as a fringe candidate in 2008, and he may run again, but he'll never get any further than the million primary votes he got last time for one simple reason, which happens to be the same reason many campaign-trail reporters like me liked him: He's honest. An anti- war, pro-legalization Republican won't ever play in Peoria, which is why in 2008 Paul's supporters were literally outside the tent at most GOP events, their candidate pissed on by a party hierarchy that preferred Wall Street-friendly phonies like Mitt Romney and John McCain. Paul returned the favor, blasting both parties as indistinguishable "Republicrats" in his presciently titled book, The Revolution. The pre-Obama "Tea Parties" were therefore peopled by young anti-war types and libertarian intellectuals who were as turned off by George W. Bush and Karl Rove as they were by liberals and Democrats.

snip


Beneath the surface, the Tea Party is little more than a weird and disorderly mob, a federation of distinct and often competing strains of conservatism that have been unable to coalesce around a leader of their own choosing. Its rallies include not only hardcore libertarians left over from the original Ron Paul "Tea Parties," but gun-rights advocates, fundamentalist Christians, pseudomilitia types like the Oath Keepers (a group of law- enforcement and military professionals who have vowed to disobey "unconstitutional" orders) and mainstream Republicans who have simply lost faith in their party.

snip


After nearly a year of talking with Tea Party members from Nevada to New Jersey, I can count on one hand the key elements I expect to hear in nearly every interview. One: Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did protest the spending in the Bush years, and not one of them is the hypocrite who only took to the streets when a black Democratic president launched an emergency stimulus program.

snip


Paul's animus toward the state's Republican overlords never seemed greater than in August 2009, when McConnell decided to throw a fancy fundraiser in Washington for the national GOP's preferred candidate, Trey Grayson. Attended by 17 Republican senators who voted for the TARP bailout, the event was dubbed the "Bailout Ball" by Paul's people. Paul went a step further, pledging not to accept contributions from any senator who voted to hand taxpayer money over to Wall Street. "A primary focus of my campaign is that we need Republicans in office who will have the courage to say no to federal bailouts of big business," he declared.

snip


Beyond that, Paul just flat-out stopped talking about his views — particularly the ones that don't jibe with right-wing and Christian crowds, like curtailing the federal prohibition on drugs. Who knows if that had anything to do with hawkish Christian icon Sarah Palin agreeing to headline fundraisers for Paul, but a huge chunk of the candidate's libertarian ideals have taken a long vacation.

"When he was pulling no punches, when he was reciting his best stuff, I felt like I knew him," says Koch, the former campaign volunteer who now works with the Libertarian Party in Kentucky. "But now, with Mitch McConnell and Karl Rove calling the shots, I feel like I don't know him anymore."

Hardcore young libertarians like Koch — the kind of people who were outside the tent during the elder Paul's presidential run in 2008 — cared enough about the issues to jump off the younger Paul's bandwagon when he cozied up to the Republican Party establishment. But it isn't young intellectuals like Koch who will usher Paul into the U.S. Senate in the general election; it's those huge crowds of pissed-off old people who dig Sarah Palin and Fox News and call themselves Tea Partiers. And those people really don't pay attention to specifics too much. Like dogs, they listen to tone of voice and emotional attitude.

[pcosmar]

Smells like fear.

They're scared.
:cool:

[ctiger2]

Taibbi's pretty good, but he's not that bright. He works pretty hard for his money.

[Stary Hickory]

God I love this logic, they were former supporters of the GOP so they are to be written off...ok lets continue down this stupidic logic. We also have supporters of Obama...so they must be written off as well...that leaves us with a good 8% of the population if we are lucky that can be considered not full of shit.

What a useless and defeatist pile of krap that guys rant is. The GOP aint happy with Bush he has all but been rejected by conservatives already. GOP incumvents are being mown down....and why is this? Doesn't this Tea Party just want the same establishment Bush GOPers in power?

I really get tired of people saying the same krap over and over again. The same tactics....stop being politcally active just relax and let us run your lives...because you can bet sure as hell the statists are being VERY politically active. Makes me want to punch someone.

[libertyfan101]

Though I don't agree with everything in this article. I do believe that the Tea Party isn't offering anything new but the same status quo. Even Ron Paul has said that it's fast becoming other arm of the GOP and Neo-Cons. When you have people like Palin, Beck, Brown and Hannity as the standard bearers of the tea party. Then it's nothing but the same old bullshit. I was a big fan of the tea party movement before it got hijacked. Unless the tea party comes out with it's own platform that offers a clear difference beside rhetoric and lip service. Along with a non-interventionist foriegn policy. Then I really have no desire to join them.

[Flash]

God I love this logic, they were former supporters of the GOP so they are to be written off...ok lets continue down this stupidic logic. We also have supporters of Obama...so they must be written off as well...that leaves us with a good 8% of the population if we are lucky that can be considered not full of shit.

What a useless and defeatist pile of krap that guys rant is. The GOP aint happy with Bush he has all but been rejected by conservatives already. GOP incumvents are being mown down....and why is this? Doesn't this Tea Party just want the same establishment Bush GOPers in power?

I really get tired of people saying the same krap over and over again. The same tactics....stop being politcally active just relax and let us run your lives...because you can bet sure as hell the statists are being VERY politically active. Makes me want to punch someone.

The Tea Party movement is on the verge of taking over the nation. I don't even listen to what our idiotic enemies on the left have to say about it. They know they are losing.

[Reason]

The Tea Party movement is on the verge of taking over the nation.

lmao...

[Sola_Fide]

The Tea Party movement is on the verge of taking over the nation. I don't even listen to what our idiotic enemies on the left have to say about it. They know they are losing.

Tongue-in-cheek? Right?

[BenIsForRon]

Most of the snippets anti-fed posted were pretty spot-on. I guarantee you guys, if McCain was the one carrying out the bailouts, you wouldn't see as many tea-parties as you do.

[Bern]

Every single one of them was that exceptional Republican who did protest the spending in the Bush years, and not one of them is the hypocrite who only took to the streets when a black Democratic president launched an emergency stimulus program.

This trite BS again? The Tea Party foundation may have started with Ron Paul's primary campaign, but it didn't really coalesce and take flight until Bush pushed the original bailout bill. It pissed off the sheeple Taibbi wrongly chastizes as hypocrites. They didn't suddenly get mad just because Obama did it. Obama made the mistake of exacerbating the same "crime" that Bush did in folding to the Fed and Wall Street cabal.

[therepublic]

I am a supporter of the Tea Party, but as the need for money increases (like any organization) there have been changes in original principles.

Making others dependent on money is how the elitists gain control. If the Tea Party members are not careful, they will find the very organization they support becoming the very thing they oppose.

[AuH20]

This guy showed his true colors when he came down to kentucky and tried to take down Rand Paul with a few GOTCHA questions.

[AuH20]

Most of the snippets anti-fed posted were pretty spot-on. I guarantee you guys, if McCain was the one carrying out the bailouts, you wouldn't see as many tea-parties as you do.

The passage of TARP can be directly responsible for the outgrowth of the Tea Party movement. And it's the main reason McCain went from being neck and neck with Obama to being down close to 10% 1 week later. Voters who vote republican don't believe in bailing out private banks and institutions, no matter if there is an R next to the name. It's one of the commandments. It should also be noted that 80% of the general public railed against the bailouts in polls.

[AuH20]

This trite BS again? The Tea Party foundation may have started with Ron Paul's primary campaign, but it didn't really coalesce and take flight until Bush pushed the original bailout bill. It pissed off the sheeple Taibbi wrongly chastizes as hypocrites. They didn't suddenly get mad just because Obama did it. Obama made the mistake of exacerbating the same "crime" that Bush did in folding to the Fed and Wall Street cabal.

Taibbi is actually angry that the long abused GOP voters are actually taking the initiative to clear the dead wood. Of course this bold move, obviously endangers the democrats as well who are firmly locked in their sights.

[RM918]

This trite BS again? The Tea Party foundation may have started with Ron Paul's primary campaign, but it didn't really coalesce and take flight until Bush pushed the original bailout bill. It pissed off the sheeple Taibbi wrongly chastizes as hypocrites. They didn't suddenly get mad just because Obama did it. Obama made the mistake of exacerbating the same "crime" that Bush did in folding to the Fed and Wall Street cabal.

Anything to paint a bunch of people as racists.

[AuH20]

The most offensive excerpt from the piece. How does Taibbi arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion? The Tea Party is indirectly augmenting Goldman and BP? Really?????????????????????? Until you cut them off from the government tit and the command-control grid in D.C., the raping of the nation will continue. Secondly, where is the burgeoning anti-Fed movement on the left? I hear crickets aside from some occasional rumblings from Sanders and Grayson. Tell me Matt, Goldman doesn't benefit from it's cozy relationship with the Fed??? Hell, you chronicled the AIG swindle!!!



The bad news is that the Tea Party's political outrage is being appropriated, with thanks, by the Goldmans and the BPs of the world. The good news, if you want to look at it that way, is that those interests mostly have us by the balls anyway, no matter who wins on Election Day. That's the reality; the rest of this is just noise. It's just that it's a lot of noise, and there's no telling when it's ever going to end.

[AuH20]

The Tea Party movement is on the verge of taking over the nation. I don't even listen to what our idiotic enemies on the left have to say about it. They know they are losing.

It's a long overdue pushback for years of abuse. Let's see where it takes us. Obviously, I prefer this as an alternative to an armed struggle, but given what we know about removing sociopaths from perches of power, it will probably lead to that unwanted outcome.

[Stary Hickory]

The most offensive excerpt from the piece. How does Taibbi arrive at such a ridiculous conclusion? The Tea Party is indirectly augmenting Goldman and BP? Really?????????????????????? Until you cut them off from the government tit and the command-control grid in D.C., the raping of the nation will continue. Secondly, where is the burgeoning anti-Fed movement on the left? I hear crickets aside some occasional rumblings from Sanders and Grayson. Tell me Matt, Goldman doesn't benefit from it's cozy relationship with the Fed??? Hell, you chronicled the AIG swindle!!!

There is no anti fed movement on the left at all. They need the FED to extract power and control from the unwilling. I watched Wall Street last night and it was a leftist pile of propaganda. The only resistance to the bailouts was fromt he right...from true conservatives. The left was all over it including their darling Krugman...yet this movie tries to rewrite a already too recent history.

[AuH20]

There is no anti fed movement on the left at all. They need the FED to extract power and control from the unwilling. I watched Wall Street last night and it was a leftist pile of propaganda. The only resistance to the bailouts was fromt he right...from true conservatives. The left was all over it including their darling Krugman...yet this movie tries to rewrite a already too recent history.

The liberal parasite machine cannot function without the Fed. That's the dirty little secret. Where would Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac be without the Fed? The ABA? The UAW? The teacher unions? They all directly benefit from government expansion and loose money policies.

[Justinjj1]

That was an excellent article by Taibbi, he really hit the nail on the head with this. I'm glad that he acknowledged the fact that the real Tea Party was started by Ron Paul and principled libertarians and has been hijacked by his sellout son and the Republican establishment.

[osan]

Interesting read from the 15 October issue of the Rolling Stone, released yesterday.

Some money quotes from the multipage article.

[/URL][URL]http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0 (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0)

Course, the whole thing ends in a self affirming rant about how, no matter what the stripe of political affiliation may be, we are all delusional Luddites who yearn for a world of freedom and individual independence that is gone forever and the sooner we all die, the sooner the rest of us can all comfortably assimilate into the Borg hive of new world order globalism.

Taibbi has demonstrated himself a graceless, little man in his past rantings, but this appears to set a new low - at least in my limited experience, given I don't much pay attention to his rank stupidity.

These excerpts, however, appear to hold something different. The tone is reminiscent of one who finds himself in a very dangerous corner and is blowing himself up to look as mean and dangerous as possible as he wildly flails in recognition that it's a now or never situation.

Taibbi and his ilk, if you will notice, have painted the Tea Party as insignificant - as "fringe" to use Taibbi's own term. But if this is so, why then do they devote so much time and energy in repeating that particular mantra? I can hear the chanting in Taibbi's bedroom as he drifts off into sleepy time with his teddy bear and Ken doll:

Teabaggers are insignificant
Teabaggers are fringe
I shall fear no Teabagger
The Hive keepeth me
The Hive restoreth me
Forever and ever

It seems they are anticipating a pinch of some significance on the near horizon and are now pulling out ever more stops in the effort to divert the currents.

It is also interesting to mark how he took note of the absence of a singular leader of the movement. I suspect this scares the breath out of him and his kind for several reasons. First, there is no single point target available to them for assassination. Next, it reflects a world that I am sure is for them the very definition of horror - nobody to take them by the hand and guide their steps. Now go left. Now stop. Now think this. Now that. These people appear to be heavily vested emotionally and psychologically in believing in the intrinsic evil of human beings to the point that they will go to any length to prove it to themselves and others in order to justify their emotional addiction to the despotic authority that promises to keep that evil at bay on their behalves.

As I think of it, these people appear to be textbook cases of Stockholm Syndrome, or something very much like it. They have so utterly identified with their captors, are so utterly riddled with morbid petrification, that they have become the tyrants' most faithfully and single-mindedly vicious bulldogs. Picture that - fear-ridden to the point of having gone internally catatonic such that they are incapable of psychological movement, not unlike the archetypical female B-movie victim who, in her state of paralytic terror, stands like a statue as the killer does the deed, all the while capable of nothing more than issuing her primal screams. This is precisely how Taibbi comes across to me.

A great nerve is being touched and the body collectivist is reacting reflexively. The immune system is raging and the body is high with fever.

Good.

Very good.

[osan]

Obama made the mistake of exacerbating...

So what you're saying is we should expect him to go blind any day now.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Have Fun...

http://twitter.com/mtaibbi

[CUnknown]

That was an excellent article by Taibbi, he really hit the nail on the head with this. I'm glad that he acknowledged the fact that the real Tea Party was started by Ron Paul and principled libertarians and has been hijacked by his sellout son and the Republican establishment.

Hey, have some faith! Rand hasn't sold out yet, damn. Give him the benefit of the doubt, at least until he casts his first anti-liberty vote!

[silentshout]

Though I don't agree with everything in this article. I do believe that the Tea Party isn't offering anything new but the same status quo. Even Ron Paul has said that it's fast becoming other arm of the GOP and Neo-Cons. When you have people like Palin, Beck, Brown and Hannity as the standard bearers of the tea party. Then it's nothing but the same old bullshit. I was a big fan of the tea party movement before it got hijacked. Unless the tea party comes out with it's own platform that offers a clear difference beside rhetoric and lip service. Along with a non-interventionist foriegn policy. Then I really have no desire to join them.

^^

[georgiaboy]

The liberal parasite machine cannot function without the Fed. That's the dirty little secret. Where would Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac be without the Fed? The ABA? The UAW? The teacher unions? They all directly benefit from government expansion and loose money policies.

Yes, and by liberal, I mean big gov't R, D, and I.

[RedStripe]

I thought it was a pretty good article. It's funny how he sort-of predicts that his critics will lump him into the mysterious "them" (the leftist/liberal/etc "they").

[TNforPaul45]

Taibbi has demonstrated himself a graceless, little man in his past rantings, but this appears to set a new low - at least in my limited experience, given I don't much pay attention to his rank stupidity.

These excerpts, however, appear to hold something different. The tone is reminiscent of one who finds himself in a very dangerous corner and is blowing himself up to look as mean and dangerous as possible as he wildly flails in recognition that it's a now or never situation.

Taibbi and his ilk, if you will notice, have painted the Tea Party as insignificant - as "fringe" to use Taibbi's own term. But if this is so, why then do they devote so much time and energy in repeating that particular mantra? I can hear the chanting in Taibbi's bedroom as he drifts off into sleepy time with his teddy bear and Ken doll:

Teabaggers are insignificant
Teabaggers are fringe
I shall fear no Teabagger
The Hive keepeth me
The Hive restoreth me
Forever and ever

It seems they are anticipating a pinch of some significance on the near horizon and are now pulling out ever more stops in the effort to divert the currents.

It is also interesting to mark how he took note of the absence of a singular leader of the movement. I suspect this scares the breath out of him and his kind for several reasons. First, there is no single point target available to them for assassination. Next, it reflects a world that I am sure is for them the very definition of horror - nobody to take them by the hand and guide their steps. Now go left. Now stop. Now think this. Now that. These people appear to be heavily vested emotionally and psychologically in believing in the intrinsic evil of human beings to the point that they will go to any length to prove it to themselves and others in order to justify their emotional addiction to the despotic authority that promises to keep that evil at bay on their behalves.

As I think of it, these people appear to be textbook cases of Stockholm Syndrome, or something very much like it. They have so utterly identified with their captors, are so utterly riddled with morbid petrification, that they have become the tyrants' most faithfully and single-mindedly vicious bulldogs. Picture that - fear-ridden to the point of having gone internally catatonic such that they are incapable of psychological movement, not unlike the archetypical female B-movie victim who, in her state of paralytic terror, stands like a statue as the killer does the deed, all the while capable of nothing more than issuing her primal screams. This is precisely how Taibbi comes across to me.

A great nerve is being touched and the body collectivist is reacting reflexively. The immune system is raging and the body is high with fever.

Good.

Very good.

Never before has a nail been so precisely hammered before. Yes, very good indeed. Just wait until us real anti-collectivists hijack the new GOP tea party, they will pee themselves scared!!!:rolleyes:

[Romulus]

I thought it was a pretty good article. It's funny how he sort-of predicts that his critics will lump him into the mysterious "them" (the leftist/liberal/etc "they").

Uhm. That's because he IS! lol. Such a brilliant call by Mike there! I bet he would paint me as one of 'them libertarians!' lawl

No matter how hard he tries to parade as some anti-corporate independent, his true colors always show in this little rants.

He does nothing but exemplify stereotypes of the MSM. He's nothing but a Democratic steam valve.

[RedStripe]

Uhm. That's because he IS! lol. Such a brilliant call by Mike there! I bet he would paint me as one of 'them libertarians!' lawl

No matter how hard he tries to parade as some anti-corporate independent, his true colors always show in this little rants.

He does nothing but exemplify stereotypes of the MSM. He's nothing but a Democratic steam valve.

Want to back up any of your claims?

Sorry but the real world isn't as black and white as "us or them."

I'm sure I would disagree with him on a variety of issues, but that doesn't change the fact that he's painted a fairly accurate portrait of the "Tea Party."

[AuH20]

Want to back up any of your claims?

Sorry but the real world isn't as black and white as "us or them."

I'm sure I would disagree with him on a variety of issues, but that doesn't change the fact that he's painted a fairly accurate portrait of the "Tea Party."

All I know is that his vehement dislike for Rand Paul, sums up his angle so to speak. The dude will never understand. Rand Paul is so far removed from the GOP establishment policy spectrum that it's laughable.

[tjeffersonsghost]

I agree with Matt. BTW, Matt is a closet Ron Paul supporter I think..

[tjeffersonsghost]

I'm sure I would disagree with him on a variety of issues, but that doesn't change the fact that he's painted a fairly accurate portrait of the "Tea Party."

He is painting a REAL accurate portrait of what the tea party is today. It wasnt started this way but has since been successfully co opted by the neo cons.

[AuH20]

He is painting a REAL accurate portrait of what the tea party is today. It wasnt started this way but has since been successfully co opted by the neo cons.

I don't think it's been co-opted by anyone. If that was the case, the tea party folks would have endorsed Bob Bennett, Mike Castle, Lisa Murkowski, & Trey Grayson, among others. They have brought fresh blood in, around the country, though not perfect. But it's a start.

[RedStripe]

All I know is that his vehement dislike for Rand Paul, sums up his angle so to speak. The dude will never understand. Rand Paul is so far removed from the GOP establishment policy spectrum that it's laughable.

Oh so the people on this forum who are a bit sketchy about Rand Paul must be part of the vast, left-wing conspiracy too. :rolleyes:

Here's a tip: attacking people because of what you claim is "their angle" (agenda) isn't a valid way of discrediting their assessment of the facts.

[RedStripe]

He is painting a REAL accurate portrait of what the tea party is today. It wasnt started this way but has since been successfully co opted by the neo cons.

Yea, and he documents that change pretty clearly. That's why I liked the article - he actually acknowledged what most people have neglected when assessing the tea party: it's Ron Paul, anti-establishment roots.

[Stary Hickory]

I don't think it's been co-opted by anyone. If that was the case, the tea party folks would have endorsed Bob Bennett, Mike Castle, Lisa Murkowski, & Trey Grayson, among others. They have brought fresh blood in, around the country, though not perfect. But it's a start.

Exactly the tea party is about the closest real political thing out there that is not full of shit. It's absurd. One thing is for sure douchebag would never say the left is full of shit....just anyone who opposes their agenda...and is effective at it. The tea party cannot even be reliably defined so any moron attempting to decide what it is or what it stands for is just being ridiculous or is plain ignorant.

In general the tea party is full of politically awakened Americans....they are off their couches and engaging in the political process. I get sick of idiots trying to wave aroudn the neocon brush on everything. The tea party has a lot of different types in it.

[AuH20]

Oh so the people on this forum who are a bit sketchy about Rand Paul must be part of the vast, left-wing conspiracy too. :rolleyes:

Here's a tip: attacking people because of what you claim is "their angle" (agenda) isn't a valid way of discrediting their assessment of the facts.

Sketchy? Taibbi hates Rand Paul with every fiber of his being, according to that piece! It's not even a healthy dose of skepticism on his part.

[JoshLowry]

Some good parts, some bad.

The movement started by Ron Paul's message continues. It is completely separate but running on all cylinders. Who do you think took on the GOP during the primary? If the tea party is the GOP, then who are we?

Call it whatever you want, but the people who started the most recent revival of the tea party are pushing as strong as ever.

Amash, Lawson, Rand, Bradley, Kokesh, Schiff, and the original Paul.

We are just getting warmed up Mr. Taibbi.

[AuH20]

Oh so the people on this forum who are a bit sketchy about Rand Paul must be part of the vast, left-wing conspiracy too. :rolleyes:

Here's a tip: attacking people because of what you claim is "their angle" (agenda) isn't a valid way of discrediting their assessment of the facts.

Oh and for the record I was a huge fan of Taibbi for his Goldman piece as well as the expose on JP Morgan Chase's fleecing of Montgomery Alabama. But I was hoping he was more like a Naomi Wolf type of liberal, not some reactionary leftist who secretly worships our hopelessly unfixable institutions. Explain to me how the Tea Party is bad for America when it's cleaning house of Republican scum? I'm hoping a movement of principled liberals do the same to the democratic party as well.

[AuH20]

I find it very interesting how some liberals juxtapose Ron and Rand as being two completely different animals, when it's simply a dishonest reflexive response to the younger's rapid ascent . Ron and Rand are basically very similar in terms of general policy, but now that his son is on the cusp of a senate seat, as well as securing a very prominent role as of one of the key faces identifiable with the Tea Party, suddenly Rand Paul embodies all that is ill in the world to a supposed Ron Paul admirer like Tabbi.

It's almost like they view Ron as a carnival attraction who they can cheer on when he's sequestered from major positions of power. But now with his son knocking on the proverbial door of the U.S. Senate, Rand is an extreme radical completely removed from his father's legacy. This convenient 180 degree turn in opinion is hilarious and very telling if you ask me. Ron and Rand don't believe in the 14th amendment. They don't believe in nation building. They both don't believe in socialized medicine but somehow, Rand is the phony for DARE TAKING UP THAT TEA PARTY FLAG OF RACIAL INTOLERANCE AND LUDDITISM!!!:D;) I, for one, can't wait to hear Taibbi's take in November when Rand is sworn in.

[lester1/2jr]

I post at salon.com that is my main connection to liberal ideas and they are having a really bad time. All they can do in the face of the tea party is blab on about the top percent and how taxes were higher in the 60s and we had the best prosperity. They are obsessed with the tea party and hone in on every aspect of it thinking this will be the one that elinates the threat and it never is. People will vote for a bear before they vote for a democrat at this point.

They don't get the whole notion of liberty at all. It makes no sense. They like small farms and local food and independeny record labels and hate corporations bu tlove the state which is basically where every corporation and factory farm goes to get its advantage.

[AuH20]

I post at salon.com that is my main connection to liberal ideas and they are having a really bad time. All they can do in the face of the tea party is blab on about the top percent and how taxes were higher in the 60s and we had the best prosperity. They are obsessed with the tea party and hone in on every aspect of it thinking this will be the one that elinates the threat and it never is. People will vote for a bear before they vote for a democrat at this point.

They don't get the whole notion of liberty at all. It makes no sense. They like small farms and local food and independeny record labels and hate corporations bu tlove the state which is basically where every corporation and factory farm goes to get its advantage.

Roughly 20% of democrats nationally support the tea party. It's got to be driving the coasters crazy.

[AuH20]

Taibbi is fascinated with Rand Paul. He just posted this yesterday:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/matt-taibbi/blogs/Taibbi_2008/212282/83512


Anyway, a lot of the background on Rand is so bizarre and out there that it almost can't affect him anymore -- it seems like the people who are determined to vote for him will do so even if he comes out tomorrow and says he's for forced segregation of straight and lesbian aliens on the planet Saturn.

I have some other housekeeping issues with the piece that I'll be dealing with in the next days, and there will shortly be some more breaking news on Rand to get to (a story which I know about but which unfortunately I will have to watch another news outlet break -- I will say this, it's funny stuff) .

[RedStripe]

Oh and for the record I was a huge fan of Taibbi for his Goldman piece as well as the expose on JP Morgan Chase's fleecing of Montgomery Alabama. But I was hoping he was more like a Naomi Wolf type of liberal, not some reactionary leftist who secretly worships our hopelessly unfixable institutions. Explain to me how the Tea Party is bad for America when it's cleaning house of Republican scum? I'm hoping a movement of principled liberals do the same to the democratic party as well.

Tea Party is full of people who "worship hopelessly unfixable institutions" but I guess somehow that's different. :rolleyes:

The Tea Party is just doing the Republicans job for them: reinventing the party to make it something other than the worst thing that has happened to planet earth since nuclear weapons were invented. The Tea Party is increasingly a bunch of empty slogans and meaningless imagery manufactured and/or repeated by political think tanks and other groups hoping to stoke the fires of ignorant indignation and ride the ensuing wave of donations.

The corporate-cocksucking, fascist, warmongering, regressive shitballs who infest the DC PACs, and "conservative" think-tanks are just jumping all over this shit. You and other have made a big deal about how the white, middle-aged, middle/upper-class Americans who have joined the Tea Party movement are somehow going to magically transform into Ron Paul types - you're the fool on that one. These people aren't interested in a deep, critical analysis of what ails our political-economic system, they're there for the carnival and the slogans. They're there because Sean Hannity said so. For fuck's sake, it's not like the so-called leaders of the Tea Party are doing much of anything to actually encourage these people to engage their brains (to Glenn Beck's credit he does seem to do this to the limited extent that he is capable of doing so). Sure, these Tea Party people are being used - but it's not by you and other actual "libertarians" - it's by the fucking Republican establishment. You've even deluded yourself into thinking that a few new candidates, a few upsets here and there against establishment candidates, actually signifies a turning point or insurrection that will really "change things." Not at all. This is just established institutions doing what establishment institutions always do. They move slow, but their advantage is their size, their gravity, which is so great that eventually all that enter their orbit are duly assimilated.

No different from the assimilation of the civil rights movements of the 60s, the labor struggles of the late 1800s/early 1900s. They were similarly assimilated into the power structure, stripped of their radical elements, and transformed into assets of the very system which spawned them (by virtue of the great injustice they caused).

I'm really disappointed, but not surprised, at the way that YAL and other more reasonable organizations have entered the feeding frenzy. But that's what happens when you choose campaigning and lobbying as your strategy for revolution against politics - you become the very limp noodle, ass-kissing, demagoguing, donation-seeking leech that you initially opposed. I mean, the Tea Party rhetoric (empty though it may be) is the ticket to power at the moment, and groups like YAL are taking advantage of the opportunity. Trust me, I understand the strategy arguments for such a move. I think some of them have merit.

I stick to what I know from personal experience on this one. I had as close to a front-row seat to the magic of the Ron Paul revolution as one could get, and it wasn't because Ron Paul was worried about appealing to the right demographic, or issuing clips on the latest political hot topic. He wasn't bashing Bush because it was the cool thing to do (he rarely mentions names unless pressed to do so, as you have probably noticed) and he didn't really seem to concerned about changing his presentation depending on the audience. That's why the Ron Paul revolution - the networked, guerrilla campaign, was so effective (and it was, if you considered how badly Ron Paul transgressed the rules of traditional presidential politics).

Lately the cool thing to do is bash Obama. It's Obama. He's the bad guy. The democrats in Congress are bad too. Why are they bad? Radical Leftists(tm). Healthcare. Appeaser. Muslim. Solution? Elect Republicans.

Fuck that.

For the record, I am a fan of BJ Lawson. I also hope Rand Paul wins. But honestly fuck the Tea Party. The moment it became a "thing", a group identity, a corporate brand, it opened itself up to the kind of Republican/Fox News co-opting that is turning a weapon against the establishment into a weapon of the establishment.

[AuH20]

Tea Party is full of people who "worship hopelessly unfixable institutions" but I guess somehow that's different. :rolleyes:

The Tea Party is just doing the Republicans job for them: reinventing the party to make it something other than the worst thing that has happened to planet earth since nuclear weapons were invented. The Tea Party is increasingly a bunch of empty slogans and meaningless imagery manufactured and/or repeated by political think tanks and other groups hoping to stoke the fires of ignorant indignation and ride the ensuing wave of donations.

The corporate-cocksucking, fascist, warmongering, regressive shitballs who infest the DC PACs, and "conservative" think-tanks are just jumping all over this shit. You and other have made a big deal about how the white, middle-aged, middle/upper-class Americans who have joined the Tea Party movement are somehow going to magically transform into Ron Paul types - you're the fool on that one. These people aren't interested in a deep, critical analysis of what ails our political-economic system, they're there for the carnival and the slogans. They're there because Sean Hannity said so. For fuck's sake, it's not like the so-called leaders of the Tea Party are doing much of anything to actually encourage these people to engage their brains (to Glenn Beck's credit he does seem to do this to the limited extent that he is capable of doing so). Sure, these Tea Party people are being used - but it's not by you and other actual "libertarians" - it's by the fucking Republican establishment. You've even deluded yourself into thinking that a few new candidates, a few upsets here and there against establishment candidates, actually signifies a turning point or insurrection that will really "change things." Not at all. This is just established institutions doing what establishment institutions always do. They move slow, but their advantage is their size, their gravity, which is so great that eventually all that enter their orbit are duly assimilated.

No different from the assimilation of the civil rights movements of the 60s, the labor struggles of the late 1800s/early 1900s. They were similarly assimilated into the power structure, stripped of their radical elements, and transformed into assets of the very system which spawned them (by virtue of the great injustice they caused).

I'm really disappointed, but not surprised, at the way that YAL and other more reasonable organizations have entered the feeding frenzy. But that's what happens when you choose campaigning and lobbying as your strategy for revolution against politics - you become the very limp noodle, ass-kissing, demagoguing, donation-seeking leech that you initially opposed. I mean, the Tea Party rhetoric (empty though it may be) is the ticket to power at the moment, and groups like YAL are taking advantage of the opportunity. Trust me, I understand the strategy arguments for such a move. I think some of them have merit.

I stick to what I know from personal experience on this one. I had as close to a front-row seat to the magic of the Ron Paul revolution as one could get, and it wasn't because Ron Paul was worried about appealing to the right demographic, or issuing clips on the latest political hot topic. He wasn't bashing Bush because it was the cool thing to do (he rarely mentions names unless pressed to do so, as you have probably noticed) and he didn't really seem to concerned about changing his presentation depending on the audience. That's why the Ron Paul revolution - the networked, guerrilla campaign, was so effective (and it was, if you considered how badly Ron Paul transgressed the rules of traditional presidential politics).

Lately the cool thing to do is bash Obama. It's Obama. He's the bad guy. The democrats in Congress are bad too. Why are they bad? Radical Leftists(tm). Healthcare. Appeaser. Muslim. Solution? Elect Republicans.

Fuck that.

For the record, I am a fan of BJ Lawson. I also hope Rand Paul wins. But honestly fuck the Tea Party. The moment it became a "thing", a group identity, a corporate brand, it opened itself up to the kind of Republican/Fox News co-opting that is turning a weapon against the establishment into a weapon of the establishment.

I'm surprised that you're so down on the Tea Party because in my eyes it signifies a mass awakening for a class of citizens who'd rather immerse themselves in their Barca lounger and watch Dancing of the Stars than address critical issues which will affect themselves and their loved ones for years to come. The surprising ascent of the Tea Party is a step in the fleeting options available to the populace at the moment. We'll see where it goes, but at this juncture it's all about planting ideological seeds as opposed to notching political victories. The victories are enjoyable but they're gravy in the grand scheme of things. A timeless idea dwarfs any temporary political movement.

As a keen observer of human nature, you must be aware that true change never takes place in an artificially controlled political movement, no matter how earnest it appears at first glance. Regardless, this tea party movement as contrived as it appears, is a stepping stone to greater things outside the political arena. Patience.

[tjeffersonsghost]

I'm surprised that you're so down on the Tea Party because in my eyes it signifies a mass awakening for a class of citizens who'd rather immerse themselves in their Barca lounger and watch Dancing of the Stars than address critical issues which will affect themselves and their loved ones for years to come. The surprising ascent of the Tea Party is a step in the fleeting options available to the populace at the moment. We'll see where it goes, but at this juncture it's all about planting ideological seeds as opposed to notching political victories. The victories are enjoyable but they're gravy in the grand scheme of things. A timeless idea dwarfs any temporary political movement.

As a keen observer of human nature, you must be aware that true change never takes place in an artificially controlled political movement, no matter how earnest it appears at first glance. Regardless, this tea party movement as contrived as it appears, is a stepping stone to greater things outside the political arena. Patience.

Yeah, a mass awakening alright, this is why 80% of the tea party wants either Palin or Romney for President.... No Thanks, the tea party has been Co Opted. We need to leave the tea party behind and look ahead at new strategies.

[JoshLowry]

No Thanks, the tea party has been Co Opted. We need to leave the tea party behind and look ahead at new strategies.

Why don't we just keep doing what we are doing without a label or official site/leader/target?

[MRoCkEd]

The Tea Party is what you make it. Do you think the neocons who want to hijack it say, "A lot of these people support Ron Paul. I'm out of here."

No, they work to increase their influence on the group. We need to be doing the same.

[tjeffersonsghost]

The Tea Party is what you make it. Do you think the neocons who want to hijack it say, "A lot of these people support Ron Paul. I'm out of here."

No, they work to increase their influence on the group. We need to be doing the same.

I guess I used my words incorrect. I shouldnt of said we need to walk away, I should of said we cant keep treating the tea party like its the end all be all. We need to have an appearance but we need to focus on new strategies instead of focusing so hard on making the tea party back into our own.

[RedStripe]

I'm surprised that you're so down on the Tea Party because in my eyes it signifies a mass awakening for a class of citizens who'd rather immerse themselves in their Barca lounger and watch Dancing of the Stars than address critical issues which will affect themselves and their loved ones for years to come. The surprising ascent of the Tea Party is a step in the fleeting options available to the populace at the moment. We'll see where it goes, but at this juncture it's all about planting ideological seeds as opposed to notching political victories. The victories are enjoyable but they're gravy in the grand scheme of things. A timeless idea dwarfs any temporary political movement.

I just don't think that the Tea Party is really centered around any particular idea other than "soacialism is bad". The modern Tea Party is more about conservative institutions whipping their traditional base into a frenzy than anything else (though it certainly evolved from and stole from the libertarian movement).



As a keen observer of human nature, you must be aware that true change never takes place in an artificially controlled political movement, no matter how earnest it appears at first glance.

Exactly. And the degree to which a political movement becomes an artificial "brand" of a particular syndicate of corporate and political institutions the less meaningful it becomes as a means of fundamental, positive transformation.

[Romulus]

but that doesn't change the fact that he's painted a fairly accurate portrait of the "Tea Party."

Fact? So if I judged black people based on Al Sharpton and Jesse would that be an accurate portrait of black people?

It's ignorance. And Tabbi is full of it. He's pointing the finger but fails to see 3 pointing right back at him.

[RedStripe]

Fact? So if I judged black people based on Al Sharpton and Jesse would that be an accurate portrait of black people?

It's ignorance. And Tabbi is full of it. He's pointing the finger but fails to see 3 pointing right back at him.

What a terrible analogy. Formulating an assessment of "black people" based on the views and actions of a few is stupid because the common characteristic - of being black - isn't very causally related .

The difference is that when you actually sample a lot of tea party people who hold similar views - and when holding similar views is the very thing that makes them part of a group - it is a lot more reasonable to draw conclusions about the Tea Party as a whole, especially when you make an effort to minimize the extent to which particular views aren't completely representative (by pointing out that the group is made of of people with different agendas).

Again, you're just talking trash about Tabbi. Give me something substantive instead of pulling a Guiliani.

[Romulus]

I think the left like Tabbi hates the Tea Party cause its not theirs. It gives them somehting more than Bush to complain out. Now its all the Tea Parties fault.

Just like the morons who cant see that big Govt is bad for the same reasons big Corps are bad, they have tunnel vision.

The Tea Party is a split. 50% neocons. 50% liberty. Of course the MSM makes it look ALL neocon to play into a left/right paradigm.

Tabby takes a big bite of that shit sandwich and writes a big long rant thats just parrots CNBC.

Summary, Tabby is only half right. But he leaves out the half, even worse he takes that other half (Rand) and makes them in Neocons.

[Romulus]

What a terrible analogy. Formulating an assessment of "black people" based on the views and actions of a few is stupid because the common characteristic - of being black - isn't very causally related .

The difference is that when you actually sample a lot of tea party people who hold similar views - and when holding similar views is the very thing that makes them part of a group - it is a lot more reasonable to draw conclusions about the Tea Party as a whole, especially when you make an effort to minimize the extent to which particular views aren't completely representative (by pointing out that the group is made of of people with different agendas).

Again, you're just talking trash about Tabbi. Give me something substantive instead of pulling a Guiliani.

Newsflash. The Tea Party does not hold similar views!! Some are pro war neocons, others are anti-war liberty minded folks like myself. And ohmygod, some might be hypocrites - What party is immune from those??? NONE.

I'm picking on Tabby because he lumps them all together. Tea Party = Neocons. Necons Bad! Bush Bad! Wah! Its moronic. And he's just channeling the popular misconception held by people who can't think for themselves.

[Romulus]

it is a lot more reasonable to draw conclusions about the Tea Party as a whole,

That is where you, Tabby, the MSM talking heads and their bobble heads FAIL.

[RedStripe]

Newsflash. The Tea Party does not hold similar views!! Some are pro war neocons, others are anti-war liberty minded folks like myself. And ohmygod, some might be hypocrites - What party is immune from those??? NONE.

I'm picking on Tabby because he lumps them all together. Tea Party = Neocons. Necons Bad! Bush Bad! Wah! Its moronic. And he's just channeling the popular misconception held by people who can't think for themselves.

He specifically says that many people in the movement have different political agendas, but goes on to describe the least common denominator. Sorry you can't handle that.

[Romulus]

He specifically says that many people in the movement have different political agendas, but goes on to describe the least common denominator. Sorry you can't handle that.

What did you do, go back a reread it? lol.

And then he goes on to characterize the Tea Party as 'Bullshit' based on what he perceives is a 'least common denominator'. OR in your words:
"draw conclusions about the Tea Party as a whole,"

Fail.

[Flash]

lmao...

Come on seriously. How many Ron Paul Republicans got into office in 08? Compare that to the Tea Party movement's gains.

[RedStripe]

What did you do, go back a reread it? lol.

And then he goes on to characterize the Tea Party as 'Bullshit' based on what he perceives is a 'least common denominator'. OR in your words:
"draw conclusions about the Tea Party as a whole,"

Fail.

Yeah, and overall, it is bullshit. It's comprised of a lot of different views and political agendas, some of which are sincere and, to some extent, reasonable (in my view), but on the whole it's pretty fucking stupid. Just look at who the majority of them support as leaders. Glenn Beck. Sarah Palin. Sean Hannity. Mitt Romney. Most Tea Party people would have highly favorable opinions of at least one of the above, which is a strong indication that they are fucking idiots.

[Flash]

Tongue-in-cheek? Right?

Do you really think that Blue Dog Dems & Independents value the ideas of the modern day Left? I seriously doubt it. Early on a lot of Tea Partiers actually were independents and many were even from the Democratic Party. As you know there are tons of conservative democrats, especially in areas like the South. And what happened when these people started marching and rallying for limited government? The Lefties at MSNBC, NYTIMES, Huffington Post etc.. started calling them sexually-deviant disgusting terms like "Tea-baggers." And Progressives really wonder why they are losing America? Oh and if Ron Paul wants a chance at becoming President he needs to run as a Republican. And I mean-- he needs to appeal to Republicans like Rand Paul did. Yeah may be the RP08 campaign woke a few people up towards Liberty, but I think it would be more beneficial to have an actual libertarian in office first.

And I love the modern day left's criticism of the Tea Party being so white. You fucking morons (referring to the Liberals in the media). Whites are the biggest voting bloc in America right now. They make up something like 70% of the population. All of these racist accusations about the Tea Party are laughable. I remember trying to watch an episode of Hardball a few months ago and it was nothing but "Tea parties are racists, tea parties are racists, there's racism in the Tea party." How can anyone in their right mind expect the Tea Partiers to have a rational discussion with these types of people? No wonder the Tea Parties aren't reaching out to the Left and have become so partisan.

[klamath]

Typical leftist democratic party loyalist. This guy would rip RP to shreads if RP became a threat to the progressives. At least it makes the left anarchists happy.

[Romulus]

Yeah, and overall, it is bullshit. It's comprised of a lot of different views and political agendas, some of which are sincere and, to some extent, reasonable (in my view), but on the whole it's pretty fucking stupid. Just look at who the majority of them support as leaders. Glenn Beck. Sarah Palin. Sean Hannity. Mitt Romney. Most Tea Party people would have highly favorable opinions of at least one of the above, which is a strong indication that they are fucking idiots.

Information war. Just because those Neocon Talking heads try to co-opt the Narrative does not mean that people on the street support their ideals. However, to Tabby and the 'left', they fully buy into that false perception.

There's this thing called: Perception management. The Neocons control a large chunk of the airwaves to impose a false reality of what the Tea Party is. And left buy into, judging the Tea Party as a whole, like you did, and further marginalizing the true essence of it, by calling Ron Paul nuts and Rand a Neocon.

But whatever, believe Tabby for all I care - its pure broad brush ignorance.

[Justinjj1]

Matt Taibbi is not a Democratic party loyalist. He calls it like he sees it, and in my opinion he sees it correctly. The Tea Party does nothing but sucker a bunch of useful idiots back into the Republican Party and keep this two-party mockery alive.

If the Tea Party were intellectually honest, then foreign policy would be their number one topic of discussion. But instead a bunch of weasely morons like Beck, Palin, Armey, Rand, etc, have hijacked the movement and only offer up milquetoast platitudes about cutting pork, etc.

The real Tea Party of 1773 was all about civil disobedience and direct confrontation with the government. But this new Tea Party is made up of a bunch of ex-neocons and neocon-lites that only care about returning power to the same political party that screwed up this nation for 6 years.

The real pathetic thing about this "Tea Party" is that it didn't really gain traction until the Santelli rant about the least offensive part of the bailouts. If you remember Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and all those other Tea Party heros were all for the $700 billion dollar banker bailout.

So pardon me if I can't get enthusiastic about this new crop of Tea Party politicans, but I see right through their stupid rhetoric. This election in November will be the first time that I completely refuse to vote, because I have had it with both sides of this meaningless charade. I am done with the futility of politics and I will feel much better by not giving my consent to either one of these worthless political parties.
Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same worthless coin and the "Tea Party" is nothing but a neutered and watered-down version of real political change.

[klamath]

Matt Taibbi is not a Democratic party loyalist. He calls it like he sees it, and in my opinion he sees it correctly. The Tea Party does nothing but sucker a bunch of useful idiots back into the Republican Party and keep this two-party mockery alive.

If the Tea Party were intellectually honest, then foreign policy would be their number one topic of discussion. But instead a bunch of weasely morons like Beck, Palin, Armey, Rand, etc, have hijacked the movement and only offer up milquetoast platitudes about cutting pork, etc.

The real Tea Party of 1773 was all about civil disobedience and direct confrontation with the government. But this new Tea Party is made up of a bunch of ex-neocons and neocon-lites that only care about returning power to the same political party that screwed up this nation for 6 years.

The real pathetic thing about this "Tea Party" is that it didn't really gain traction until the Santelli rant about the least offensive part of the bailouts. If you remember Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and all those other Tea Party heros were all for the $700 billion dollar banker bailout.

So pardon me if I can't get enthusiastic about this new crop of Tea Party politicans, but I see right through their stupid rhetoric. This election in November will be the first time that I completely refuse to vote, because I have had it with both sides of this meaningless charade. I am done with the futility of politics and I will feel much better by not giving my consent to either one of these worthless political parties.
Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same worthless coin and the "Tea Party" is nothing but a neutered and watered-down version of real political change.

What ever. Pardon me if I can't get excited about the ranting of a progressive democratic party loyalist..

[Romulus]

If the Tea Party were intellectually honest, then foreign policy would be their number one topic of discussion.

Tabby aside, you are right that a good portion is pro-war/neocon lite BUT a good portion is NOT. And that is the bright spot..

Its fertile ground for waking people up to the fact that endless war IS reckless spending and harmful to the economy. And I think a lot know that already.

I see it as a move in the right direction.. not perfect, but not bullshit like the professional poo pooist Tabby tries to smear it.