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View Full Version : Educating Social Activists: "Universal Healthcare for all Americans is essential"




dannno
09-28-2010, 01:36 PM
This is how you educate socialists.



Universal Healthcare Forum "where the rubber gloves meet the road" featuring local physicians and The Mad As Hell Doctors. This educational event will explain how "Obamacare" was bare minimum reform, and that universal healthcare for all Americans is essential to improve quality of life, reduce expenditures (both out-of-pocket and 15% of national GDP), save Medicare, improve patients' health outcomes and bring human life expectancy up to that of our overseas friends.


My reply:


"bring human life expectancy up to that of our overseas friends."


Do you think that the higher life expectancy is a result of socialized medicine or the fact that these countries have rejected many of the factory farm style food production methods, genetically modified foods, transfats, high fructose corn syrup and many other types of processed foods that have been shown to be highly detrimental to human health (not to mention highly subsidized by our government)?

What if, instead of stealing from some individuals and forcing them to pay for others' ridiculously expensive healthcare and continuing to feed the medical industrial complex who lobbies congress for legislation, like that which you advocate, that brings prices even higher... WHAT IF we instead were able to bring the costs of healthcare down to the point where nearly everybody could afford it themselves, and those who couldn't were taken care of as people were in the past because it would be so much less expensive for society to do so?

Are you aware that government intervention into healthcare is the reason why health care is so incredibly expensive today? The main cause is corporatized healthcare. Since the 70s, corporations have received tax incentives to insure their workers. The problem is that individuals don't get the same tax breaks. That means there are no incentive for individuals to buy health insurance that suits their needs, so they are forced to shop for healthcare through their place of employment. This causes young and healthy individuals as well as old unhealthy individuals to fully insure themselves for doctors visits, medicine and all sorts of procedures. Competition disappears and the medical industrial complex can charge whatever it wants because individuals don't care how much their procedures cost, their insurance company (aka everybody else) is paying for it. The medical industrial complex has lobbied for individuals to be insulated from paying for their health services with the primary goal of exacerbating prices in some cases as much as 100 fold or more. How is the government supposed to decide what the cost of a particular procedure should be? Why give them the power to do so when we know they are just going to get paid off by the corporations to raise those prices so they can make more money? Asking government to lower health care costs is impossible. The only way costs can truly go down is when the market is free to produce goods and services uninhibited, and individuals have the choice of where to buy these goods and services.

The #1 reason why people have problems insuring pre-existing is due to changing their employment. That is another major unintended consequence of our corporatized healthcare system.

You may be wondering why somebody who is advocating free market ideas is using words like corporatized so much. Don't people who advocate free market ideas just like big corporations and want them to take over? No, that's actually the furthest thing from the truth, although it is precisely what the CORPORATE media will have you believe. Big corporations derive their power and their ability to exploit populations ONLY through government mandates and regulations. Corporations are the ones who lobbied for environmental regulations in the beginning of the Industrial Revolution because the government was protecting property rights of individuals whose property had been polluted by industry. The corporations created environmental regulations so they would stop being sued, and the government ultimately allowed industry to pollute, essentially regulating how much they are allowed to damage our waterways, air and private property.

The only job the government should be doing is protecting private property (environment), protecting individuals from fraud, theft and injury, enforcing voluntary contracts and protecting us from exterior threats (military - not to be confused with expanding our overseas empire or policing the world). This would take away all the power that the corporations have in our country today and allow individuals to prosper. All detrimental monopolies are created by government mandates and policies, they don't exist in a truly free market. The dialectic used in the media today, and the generally uneducated Republicans shouldn't be a factor in this discussion as they are all apart of a rouse with the goal of an elite controlled state and corporate run society.

I could go on all day, but I'll leave it at that for now.

Theocrat
09-28-2010, 01:58 PM
It's amazing how extremely educated people fail to understand simple truths and principles. Look, if you subsidize something by making it more available to everyone, you will get more of it. In the case of socialized healthcare, it will just increase the amount of sick people in the country because they will have no incentive to remain healthy. Since everyone is paying for healthcare costs, it rewards people for being sick. The quality goes down because the demand will be higher than the supply of physicians to aid them, and the result is communities of "sick" people waiting in lines to be tended to.

*Sigh*

dannno
09-28-2010, 02:08 PM
Response from activist:


Many thanks for your incredibly insightful response below. I agree on many points such as factory farming, genetically modified foods and their subsidies; corporatized healthcare, agriculture and media; the overseas empire, etc. Do you have these thoughts in a book, film or some kind of presentation? If you do, I'd be pleased to set up and promote a public event in the Santa Barbara region, to give your good ideas some air since they're unlikely to make broadcast TV.

NOW what?

silverhandorder
09-28-2010, 02:14 PM
LOL good job Danno. Either come clean or write a book real quick :P. I think the activist will be surprised when you cite several books as your basis.

dannno
09-28-2010, 02:26 PM
There's gotta be a good presentation on this by Tom Woods... or SOMEONE?

ninepointfive
09-28-2010, 03:12 PM
There's gotta be a good presentation on this by Tom Woods... or SOMEONE?

how about you? I suggest citing the resources which back your claims, and submit them to him. good work! :D

Live_Free_Or_Die
09-28-2010, 03:13 PM
I would write back thanking the person for taking the opportunity to consider and recognize your viewpoint. I might reply that I would get back to them on a book and that you were caught off guard by an inviting response.

Carl Corey
09-28-2010, 03:27 PM
Life expectancy is based on race and gender as the statistics indicate, so looking at countries with different demographics is silly unless you make corrections.

phill4paul
09-28-2010, 03:32 PM
I wonder what a cost study would reveal to simply create an abundance of health care practitioners.

Would it be cheaper to simply create more schools and grads, government funded, so as to over saturate the market and have an "emergency" clinic on every corner?

emazur
09-28-2010, 03:36 PM
This isn't quite what you're looking for, but if you wanna introduce these people to Ron Paul's view on corporations and healthcare this vid is a decent start:
YouTube - Kucinich bows down to corporations, Ron Paul stands ground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2UQRNSBFdU)

Anyway, the people that pop into my mind here that know about this kind of stuff are Mary Ruwart, G. Edward Griffin, and Stefan Molyneux. Unfortunately I don't have specific item of theirs to point you to

dannno
09-28-2010, 05:13 PM
bump

JacksonianBME
09-28-2010, 06:22 PM
Response from activist:



NOW what?


Maybe contact Alex Jones to help you find some documents he always seems to find.

dannno
09-29-2010, 06:08 PM
bump for good presentations and articles on this stuff..


Here's what I sent last night:


I'll have to get back to you with a better answer some time.


Here's a start:


YouTube - Kucinich bows down to corporations, Ron Paul stands ground (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2UQRNSBFdU)


http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul42.html



http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=787 --



"This will only increase the bottom line of the very insurers the legislation was supposed to control. Meanwhile, alternate methods of healthcare delivery and financing, such as concierge doctors, alternative medicine, or physician owned hospitals will be greatly harmed, if not put out of business altogether, when the entire country is forced into the insurance model. It will be difficult for families to come up with extra money to pay for alternate healthcare of their choice when their budget has been squeezed by this mandate to buy insurance. This will in turn reduce competition for healthcare dollars. Health insurers, like many other corporations in other industries, have now used the legislative process anti-competitively to corner the healthcare market. Instead of calling this socialized medicine, we should call it corporatized medicine, since the reform is to force us all into being customers of these corporations, whether we like it or not.

Congress made a grave error by forcing all Americans to purchase health insurance. The mandate violates fundamental principles of individual liberty, and will lead to further government involvement in health care. It is time for legislation that fights back for the freedom of the people on this issue. It is time to End the Mandate. "

dannno
09-29-2010, 10:27 PM
bump

Austrian Econ Disciple
09-29-2010, 10:39 PM
Molyneux has some good stuff. I would check his archives.

dannno
09-30-2010, 12:05 PM
Molyneux has some good stuff. I would check his archives.

Hmm, turning a socialist into an anarcho-capitalist in a matter of days?

That would be quite a feat.

low preference guy
09-30-2010, 12:07 PM
dannno, are you an ancap?

dannno
10-01-2010, 12:30 PM
dannno, are you an ancap?

Molyneux is ancap.

I can agree with ancaps and minarchists on many points on which they often disagree.. I think both systems are light years better than what we have. I think I would need to see an ancap society function before adopting it as a philosophy which I entirely agree with. I think many of the ideas behind ancap are valuable for minarchists for philosophical reasons.