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View Full Version : Jury Finds Christians Not Guilty Of Charges Related to Preaching at Muslim Festival




Stop Making Cents
09-25-2010, 09:46 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/09/jury_finds_christian_missionar.html

This actually happened in America folks. It's time to wake up. Our 1st Amendment is being shredded by libtards.


A jury on Friday found four Christian missionaries not guilty for breaching the peace after Dearborn police arrested them in June as they proselytized at the Arab International Festival

specsaregood
09-25-2010, 09:50 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/09/jury_finds_christian_missionar.html

This actually happened in America folks. It's time to wake up. Our 1st Amendment is being shredded by libtards.

Uhm, isn't the fact that they were found NOT GUILTY a sign that the system works. :o

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 09:51 AM
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/09/jury_finds_christian_missionar.html

This actually happened in America folks. It's time to wake up. Our 1st Amendment is being shredded by libtards.

Some good news there. At least the jury got it right.

I wonder how much taxpayer money was wasted on this persecution.

Stop Making Cents
09-25-2010, 09:52 AM
It's good that this particular jury found them not guilty, but the fact they were charged at all is insane. I'd sue the living crap out of the police and the city if I were them.

Would you be happy that you had to spend thousands of dollars defending you from some BS charge just because the jury found you not guilty?

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 09:53 AM
Uhm, isn't the fact that they were found NOT GUILTY a sign that the system works. :o

Part of the system.
Sometimes works.
They should have never been arrested in the first place nor subjected to trial.

paulitics
09-25-2010, 09:57 AM
I think some of the people that need to wake up are actually on this site. About half the people were either apathetic, or against the Christians in this case. If the RP forums were the jury, I'm not sure these Christians wouldn't hang.

Kludge
09-25-2010, 10:16 AM
I think some of the people that need to wake up are actually on this site. About half the people were either apathetic, or against the Christians in this case. If the RP forums were the jury, I'm not sure these Christians wouldn't hang.

Where? I don't see anyone arguing against Christians in this case.

Not saying I can sympathize with people who crash religious festivals to preach a differing religion, but I think most here would have enough respect for fairness in law to know there's no right for the gov't to prosecute the preachers in this case - it's the peoples' job to harass these people, not government's.

specsaregood
09-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Part of the system.
Sometimes works.
They should have never been arrested in the first place nor subjected to trial.

Hrm, but couldn't you pretty much say the same for many found "not guilty"?
If they were arrested and released without the state actually filing charges I could agree with you. but evidently they thought there was sufficient evidence to do so.

newyearsrevolution08
09-25-2010, 10:19 AM
I would just take the religion out of it and see what actual issues really were there. I don't think it should simply be a religion deal but rather an individual rights issue and if those or other laws were violated.

i'm sick of our government getting into shit as well as sue happy assholes thinking anything that violates them includes suing a city, local, state, your mom, SOMEONE. Everyone is out for a buck no matter what "side" you seem to be on.

specsaregood
09-25-2010, 10:21 AM
Not saying I can sympathize with people who crash religious festivals to preach a differing religion, but I think most here would have enough respect for fairness in law to know there's no right for the gov't to prosecute the preachers in this case - it's the peoples' job to harass these people, not government's.

IIRC, it was not a "muslim festival" it was an arab festival. And there was at least one christian booth. They simply weren't abiding by the rules and staying in the booth, but rather walking around.

paulitics
09-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Where? I don't see anyone arguing against Christians in this case.

Not saying I can sympathize with people who crash religious festivals to preach a differing religion, but I think most here would have enough respect for fairness in law to know there's no right for the gov't to prosecute the preachers in this case - it's the peoples' job to harass these people, not government's.

Look up the thread about Newt Gingrich defending the Christians' freedom of speech. Only a few defended the Christians, and most either wanted to stick it to the Christians, or disagree with Newt instead of agree with the constitution.
Pretty sad.

Kludge
09-25-2010, 10:27 AM
IIRC, it was not a "muslim festival" it was an arab festival. And there was at least one christian booth. They simply weren't abiding by the rules and staying in the booth, but rather walking around.

Dunno, that's tough. The articles seem to use Muslim and Arab interchangeably and Dearborn is known for having an extraordinarily high Muslim population. Idunno enough about what actually happened and what the event was, exactly, but I'll take back that I said it was a Muslim festival, though I'm not sure if that makes me feel any better about the pastors.

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 10:32 AM
IIRC, it was not a "muslim festival" it was an arab festival. And there was at least one christian booth. They simply weren't abiding by the rules and staying in the booth, but rather walking around.

You recall wrong.
There have been a couple of threads on this.
They were in fact NOT in he festival at all, but on a public street outside the festival.
There are also videos of the "confrontation" where it is clear that they had done nothing wrong and the police response was clearly disproportionate.

The entire assault on these folks was wrong. From start to conclusion.

Kludge
09-25-2010, 10:35 AM
Look up the thread about Newt Gingrich defending the Christians' freedom of speech. Only a few defended the Christians, and most either wanted to stick it to the Christians, or disagree with Newt instead of agree with the constitution.
Pretty sad.

The one where he's calling for a "ban" on Sharia law and it was pointed out that the Constitution not only already "bans" Sharia law, but also some "Christian" law? Then there was an argument that Islam's going to destroy us all and we need to keep them out of gov't.

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 11:08 AM
Previous threads. in light of the Not Guilty verdict.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=252770
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=206871

james1906
09-25-2010, 11:11 AM
I hope these 4 sue the fuck out of the festival organizers and the cops for civil rights violations.

BlackTerrel
09-25-2010, 12:00 PM
Great news! Thank you for posting.

tnvoter
09-25-2010, 12:01 PM
Uhm, isn't the fact that they were found NOT GUILTY a sign that the system works. :o

Minus the fact that they were "guilty" until proven innocent.

BlackTerrel
09-25-2010, 12:02 PM
IIRC, it was not a "muslim festival" it was an arab festival. And there was at least one christian booth. They simply weren't abiding by the rules and staying in the booth, but rather walking around.

Could you explain what is going on in this video? I don't see how anyone can defend the polices action on this.

YouTube - Arab Festival 2010: Dearborn Police Defending Islam against the Constitution (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smw9QuH1xkA)

james1906
09-25-2010, 12:18 PM
Could you explain what is going on in this video? I don't see how anyone can defend the polices action on this.

YouTube - Arab Festival 2010: Dearborn Police Defending Islam against the Constitution (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smw9QuH1xkA)

Because this is the scariest group of thugs I've ever seen. Especially the George Michael look alike.

lynnf
09-25-2010, 02:20 PM
Uhm, isn't the fact that they were found NOT GUILTY a sign that the system works. :o

no. just having to go through a trial is a punishment in and of itself. expense in time and legal fees. the system should take care of things by only prosecuting cases worthy of prosecution. you wouldn't have seen this 30 years ago, the cops would have laughed at anyone wanting to file charges.

lynn

specsaregood
09-25-2010, 06:02 PM
You recall wrong.
There have been a couple of threads on this.
They were in fact NOT in he festival at all, but on a public street outside the festival.
There are also videos of the "confrontation" where it is clear that they had done nothing wrong and the police response was clearly disproportionate.

The entire assault on these folks was wrong. From start to conclusion.

Which part am I recalling wrong? that it was an "arab festival" and not a "muslim festival"? or that there was a christian booth at the festival?

If they weren't actually at the festival as you say, then you are right, that this is a gross violation of their rights.

Bman
09-25-2010, 06:04 PM
Part of the system.
Sometimes works.
They should have never been arrested in the first place nor subjected to trial.

This is a case where those who falsely accused the other needs to be put on trial. You'd have a lot less of this type of nonsense if people were found guilty of crying wolf.

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 06:09 PM
Which part am I recalling wrong? that it was an "arab festival" and not a "muslim festival"? or that there was a christian booth at the festival?

If they weren't actually at the festival as you say, then you are right, that this is a gross violation of their rights.

They were arrested OUTSIDE the festival in the video, though they did report that they were escorted out previously. They were filming because they were expecting to be hassled again, even though they were outside. It goes on to explain that they were told they had no freedom of speech for several blocks around (but outside of) the festival.

These videos were posted some time ago in other threads on this subject.

nate895
09-25-2010, 06:13 PM
Which part am I recalling wrong? that it was an "arab festival" and not a "muslim festival"? or that there was a christian booth at the festival?

If they weren't actually at the festival as you say, then you are right, that this is a gross violation of their rights.

Having followed the situation closely from the beginning, the Christians group started out in the festival. They were asked to leave. They politely asked why, and the cops got angry and wouldn't give them an answer. The group left anyway and decided to distribute pamphlets (Gospel of John) and witness outside of the festival area. This is when they were arrested.

As for the other Christian group, they were not proclaiming the Gospel in any way, shape, or form. They were selling mostly fiction works.

specsaregood
09-25-2010, 06:15 PM
It goes on to explain that they were told they had no freedom of speech for several blocks around (but outside of) the festival.

Yeah, thats a bunch of BS. Glad they went free. They should sue the city.


These videos were posted some time ago in other threads on this subject.
Tough to tell what really goes on on those types of videos, or context, since the uploader is likely to edit to fit their agenda.

JustinTime
09-26-2010, 10:43 AM
Which part am I recalling wrong? that it was an "arab festival" and not a "muslim festival"? or that there was a christian booth at the festival?

If they weren't actually at the festival as you say, then you are right, that this is a gross violation of their rights.

Even if they were a part of the festival, charges should never have been brought. The extent of police involvement should have been escorting them from the property. Thats it.

People never seem to see past the end of their nose when it comes to free speech situations, if we start allowing people to be drug into court for saying things, the expense of getting lawyers effectively becomes a punishment all its own, thus robbing us of our first amendment rights.

Im of the opinion that freedom of speech is hanging by a thread in this country, although damn near everyone says they support it.

Dr.3D
09-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Even if they were a part of the festival, charges should never have been brought. The extent of police involvement should have been escorting them from the property. Thats it.

People never seem to see past the end of their nose when it comes to free speech situations, if we start allowing people to be drug into court for saying things, the expense of getting lawyers effectively becomes a punishment all its own, thus robbing us of our first amendment rights.

Im of the opinion that freedom of speech is hanging by a thread in this country, although damn near everyone says they support it.

This is why I believe those who drag people into court, should have to pay all expenses if and when they are found to have wrongly accused that person.

BlackTerrel
09-26-2010, 11:33 AM
This is why I believe those who drag people into court, should have to pay all expenses if and when they are found to have wrongly accused that person.

This is how it works in many countries in Europe. And I agree.

nate895
09-26-2010, 02:10 PM
This is why I believe those who drag people into court, should have to pay all expenses if and when they are found to have wrongly accused that person.

This is a common practice in civil suits. If you have an even moderately competent attorney who is actually interested in his client's interest he can get "court costs" added to the loser's judgment. It is harder in criminal cases, but again, a good lawyer will be able to sue the state for wrongful imprisonment and court costs in certain situations. This is one of those cases where it is possible to get those fees if you sue for violations of your civil liberties and win (as they could if there was a just judge presiding).

angelatc
09-26-2010, 02:13 PM
Having followed the situation closely from the beginning, the Christians group started out in the festival. They were asked to leave. They politely asked why, and the cops got angry and wouldn't give them an answer. The group left anyway and decided to distribute pamphlets (Gospel of John) and witness outside of the festival area. This is when they were arrested.

As for the other Christian group, they were not proclaiming the Gospel in any way, shape, or form. They were selling mostly fiction works.

Yes, and they flew in from other parts of the country specifically to make a fuss and get attention for their anti-Islam rhetoric. I hate that they got it.

nate895
09-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Yes, and they flew in from other parts of the country specifically to make a fuss and get attention for their anti-Islam rhetoric. I hate that they got it.

I support David Wood's ministry. You use typical anti-Evangelical rhetoric that is simply nonsense when looked at from a Christian point-of-view. Would you have us stand by and watch as billions perish because the church was too lazy to follow its command to preach the Gospel? If you knew anything about the group, you would know David Wood was the only person who wasn't a former Muslim who was part of the group. He also made a video, posted on this forum, opposed to the Qur'an burning. One of the things his ministry seeks is a greater understanding between Christians and Muslims, even if we cannot agree on fundamental issues. Surprisingly enough, non-Christians engage in just as much ignorant bashing of the Christian faith as any backwoods fundy pastor, and David Wood is no backwoods fundy pastor.

payme_rick
09-26-2010, 02:55 PM
Shouldn't be a religious element to this discussion... Fact is that people were wrongly arrested here...

nate895
09-26-2010, 03:04 PM
Shouldn't be a religious element to this discussion... Fact is that people were wrongly arrested here...

The fact is that this is religious. That is why many here on RPF refuse to stand on the side of the Christians when the clearly violated no laws. If Muslims were escorted out of a Christian festival, and then arrested for distributing Qur'ans, then all of RPF would stand by their side without hesitation. This is simply a matter of bigotry against Christians who actually express their faith in public, as they are commanded to do, and they have every right to do.

BlackTerrel
09-26-2010, 06:04 PM
The fact is that this is religious. That is why many here on RPF refuse to stand on the side of the Christians when the clearly violated no laws. If Muslims were escorted out of a Christian festival, and then arrested for distributing Qur'ans, then all of RPF would stand by their side without hesitation. This is simply a matter of bigotry against Christians who actually express their faith in public, as they are commanded to do, and they have every right to do.

I (reluctantly) agree with you.

There is a disdain of Christianity by a number of members on this forum. I'm still not 100% sure why that is. It is especially ironic considering the guy this forum is named for is a Christian.

EDIT: Quote from Ron Paul:

"For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."