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View Full Version : Is It Time For Civil Disobedience?




Matt Collins
09-24-2010, 10:55 PM
A nationwide talk radio show host wants to know:


http://www.mikechurch.com/index.php/welcome-to-mike-church-dot-com/public-transcripts/5022-citizen-church-speaks-to-fellow-citizens-on-civil-disobedience

Stary Hickory
09-25-2010, 12:08 AM
It has been time. No one wants to be the first one (INCLUDING Mike Church), that is the problem. If he is serious lead by example.

MelissaCato
09-25-2010, 01:00 AM
Ya, were ready to take the horses to the city. Nice Gadsden flags and the Betsy Ross's to hoist on all the public flag poles. I think that would be fun. I bet they couldn't catch us once we hit the dirt roads, bridges and open land anyhows. LMAO

It's almost tooo funny. :rolleyes:

YouTube - Rikki and Daz feat Glen Campbell - Rhinestone Cowboy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcezFWxrWUo)

RileyE104
09-25-2010, 07:30 AM
it's always time for civil disobedience.. :)

FrankRep
09-25-2010, 07:32 AM
Is It Time For Civil Disobedience?

What kind of Civil Disobedience?

newyearsrevolution08
09-25-2010, 07:40 AM
sure why not

DamianTV
09-25-2010, 08:19 AM
I Disobey every day.

Whether or not my behavior is considered illegal, unlawful, immoral, or violates any city or county ordinances, or contractual obligations to my employer will always be a subjective declaration, and not an objective one. As far as I am concerned, I dont do anything wrong. Give it 10 years and my daily activities will be completely against the law.

Philhelm
09-25-2010, 09:36 AM
I think that civil disobedience would only make "them" increase their levels of violence. On the other hand, it is always time for disobedience, but I wonder if it's a time for civility as well.

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 09:39 AM
Shit,
I am ready for some less than civil disobedience.
:mad:

Liberty4life
09-25-2010, 10:07 AM
The time for civil disobedience has long past.

There are very many examples of when we should have done it.

Now it is too late, the people can't overcome the government anymore.

If a time comes when and election has been postponed or nullified
for some reason, that is the time for revolution.

As it stands now the government has all the keys to power and the people just
have words.

Can we overcome the riot police with rocks?

Can we shoot down drones with slingshots?

When we have this "civil disobedience" moment it will be a cause for
laughter in the halls of power.

Because it is too late.

But there is Good News.

QueenB4Liberty
09-25-2010, 10:08 AM
Shit,
I am ready for some less than civil disobedience.
:mad:

This.

Philhelm
09-25-2010, 10:42 AM
The time for civil disobedience has long past.

There are very many examples of when we should have done it.

Now it is too late, the people can't overcome the government anymore.

If a time comes when and election has been postponed or nullified
for some reason, that is the time for revolution.

As it stands now the government has all the keys to power and the people just
have words.

Can we overcome the riot police with rocks?

Can we shoot down drones with slingshots?

When we have this "civil disobedience" moment it will be a cause for
laughter in the halls of power.

Because it is too late.

But there is Good News.

I agree completely. At this particular point in time, acts of civil disobedience would, quite literally, be laughed at. Then they would employ violence toward those mundanes who dared disobey their masters' orders.

I strongly believe that most people who become our "representatives" are megalomaniacs, if not outright sociopaths. The same applies to law enforcement personnel (even moreso, perhaps). There's a certain personality type that gravitates toward certain professions, after all.

The bottom line is they simply will not stop, as their thirst for power is as unquenchable as my thirst for liberty.

eOs
09-25-2010, 10:55 AM
No, definitely not, we've got too much potential in electing all these great liberty candidates. We're growing and flourishing on the internet, and over the next couple of years, we'll only get more mainstream. No peaceful change is going to happen over night, but if we continue what we're doing, I think we will eventually get there. The internet is playing a huge part in this and as long as we have it the way it is, I only see more positive change coming in the future.

james1906
09-25-2010, 11:00 AM
The biblethumpers have been practicing it for years outside abortion clinics, that's why abortions never happen anymore.

Philhelm
09-25-2010, 11:14 AM
No, definitely not, we've got too much potential in electing all these great liberty candidates. We're growing and flourishing on the internet, and over the next couple of years, we'll only get more mainstream. No peaceful change is going to happen over night, but if we continue what we're doing, I think we will eventually get there. The internet is playing a huge part in this and as long as we have it the way it is, I only see more positive change coming in the future.

At least from what I've seen, the internet seems to be a really poor indicator of reality. In the internet world, everyone loves Ron Paul and hates our tyrannical government. In the real world, most people haven't even heard of Ron Paul, nor do they even understand or care about the nature of our government.

eOs
09-25-2010, 11:41 AM
At least from what I've seen, the internet seems to be a really poor indicator of reality. In the internet world, everyone loves Ron Paul and hates our tyrannical government. In the real world, most people haven't even heard of Ron Paul, nor do they even understand or care about the nature of our government.

I'd have to disagree. I think we're on the forefront of what the general public desires. As an example, the Ron Paul movement that led to the tea party that became a national phenomenon could be seen as a microcosm of this.

erowe1
09-25-2010, 11:56 AM
The biblethumpers have been practicing it for years outside abortion clinics, that's why abortions never happen anymore.

They've definitely had some success.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Roe+v.+Wade+at+30:+Abortion+doctors'+numbers+dwind le+Persuasive+foes,...-a096873672

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
09-25-2010, 12:27 PM
A nationwide talk radio show host wants to know:


http://www.mikechurch.com/index.php/welcome-to-mike-church-dot-com/public-transcripts/5022-citizen-church-speaks-to-fellow-citizens-on-civil-disobedience

Once a necessary legal measure like "civil disobedience" has been implemented in order to bring the American people back to revere our blessed nation, our Founding Fathers and the natural law they declared in The Declaration of Independence, as well as the "more perfect union" they established for us in the U.S. Constitution, with all this together being considered an American Movement, then after such has been utilized, that measure from then on becomes a legal precedent.
Simply put, legal precedents are the equivalent of a "can of worms." As our Founding Fathers utilized legal measures to increase the people's Civil Purpose, lawyers today utilize legal precedents to scatter the truths and the opinions of the people for their own material gain.

james1906
09-25-2010, 12:29 PM
They've definitely had some success.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Roe+v.+Wade+at+30:+Abortion+doctors'+numbers+dwind le+Persuasive+foes,...-a096873672

I think that article demonstrates uncivil disobedience is more effective.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/us/30roeder.html

erowe1
09-25-2010, 12:40 PM
I think that article demonstrates uncivil disobedience is more effective.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/us/30roeder.html

Possibly so. But I don't think we have a way to quantify the relative effectiveness of the two.

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 01:19 PM
Possibly so. But I don't think we have a way to quantify the relative effectiveness of the two.

Since folks are throwing links in, may I present this,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=259512
And this,
http://www.constitution.org/cs_defen.htm
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.txt

Stary Hickory
09-25-2010, 01:26 PM
I am down with full blown Revolution...civil disobedience in a massive scale

Kludge
09-25-2010, 01:31 PM
The time for civil disobedience has long past.

There are very many examples of when we should have done it.

Now it is too late, the people can't overcome the government anymore.

If a time comes when and election has been postponed or nullified
for some reason, that is the time for revolution.

As it stands now the government has all the keys to power and the people just
have words.

Can we overcome the riot police with rocks?

Can we shoot down drones with slingshots?

When we have this "civil disobedience" moment it will be a cause for
laughter in the halls of power.

Because it is too late.

But there is Good News.

We have labor. The government needs our productivity to thrive. If we do not labor, the government will fall. It cannot maintain police forces, buy and maintain drones, or even collect taxes if enough people refuse to pay the IRS.

osan
09-25-2010, 01:40 PM
A nationwide talk radio show host wants to know:

Proof positive that ther eis such a thing as a stupid question.

We're at least ten years overdue. I'd be more inclined to say 87.

osan
09-25-2010, 01:52 PM
It has been time. No one wants to be the first one (INCLUDING Mike Church), that is the problem. If he is serious lead by example.

Good point.

eOs
09-25-2010, 01:54 PM
you old farts are as bad as the chicken hawk neocons. We've got plenty of potential doing this the legal way.

FrankRep
09-25-2010, 01:59 PM
Civil Disobedience:

100+ Christian Pastors to Defy the Federal Government, Internal Revenue Service (IRS)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=261913

osan
09-25-2010, 02:03 PM
The time for civil disobedience has long past.

That it is long overdue does not mean it is no longer viable. Now more than ever we need to engage in such action and it ought to be done very peacefully. That paints the enforcers into a tight corner where they either have to cede the powers they have usurped, or they must escalate into physical violence for the rest of us to see.


There are very many examples of when we should have done it.

Agreed. We're lazy, on the whole. Very. Unforgivably.


Now it is too late, the people can't overcome the government anymore.

That is an unproven assertion. I doubt that it is true. What is true, however, is that overcoming them will now be a whole lot more costly. If we fail to overcome, it will probably be due to said laziness.


As it stands now the government has all the keys to power and the people just
have words.

We have a LOT of guns, unlike most other nations. And the loyalties of the armed forces to the enforcers is anything but guaranteed. Police don't worry me that much. If it comes to blows and they side unwisely, they will become effectively extinct in a few short days.


Can we overcome the riot police with rocks?

This question presupposes that there are no other alternatives. There are plenty. It is not a question of material means nearly as much of will. Do we have the will? I am often in very serious doubt over this.

Liberty4life
09-25-2010, 02:24 PM
The rock vs riot police is just an example of how little technological
firepower the people have vs the government.

goopc
09-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Pacifism is the best way to create liberty. Suppose the founding fathers did it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=l5lBAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Charles+King+Whipple%22&hl=en&ei=ZF2eTJinIYP88AbspvzODw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

pcosmar
09-25-2010, 02:39 PM
The rock vs riot police is just an example of how little technological
firepower the people have vs the government.

Guess again.
Among us are many Ex-Military. Some with Combat experience, some in logistics or Intel.
We have Scientists, Builders, Inventors.

There are more arms and ammunition in the hands of the American public than in the Armies of China and India combined.

And don't even doubt the shit that rednecks can put together in the barns and garages all across this land.

Guess again.

Liberty4life
09-25-2010, 02:41 PM
Guess again.
Among us are many Ex-Military. Some with Combat experience, some in logistics or Intel.
We have Scientists, Builders, Inventors.

There are more arms and ammunition in the hands of the American public than in the Armies of China and India combined.

And don't even doubt the shit that rednecks can put together in the barns and garages all across this land.

Guess again.

Touche'

QueenB4Liberty
09-25-2010, 04:43 PM
Guess again.
Among us are many Ex-Military. Some with Combat experience, some in logistics or Intel.
We have Scientists, Builders, Inventors.

There are more arms and ammunition in the hands of the American public than in the Armies of China and India combined.

And don't even doubt the shit that rednecks can put together in the barns and garages all across this land.

Guess again.

I wish there were that many on our side. I'm highly skeptical.

Austrian Econ Disciple
09-25-2010, 04:52 PM
The time for civil disobedience has long past.

There are very many examples of when we should have done it.

Now it is too late, the people can't overcome the government anymore.

If a time comes when and election has been postponed or nullified
for some reason, that is the time for revolution.

As it stands now the government has all the keys to power and the people just
have words.

Can we overcome the riot police with rocks?

Can we shoot down drones with slingshots?

When we have this "civil disobedience" moment it will be a cause for
laughter in the halls of power.

Because it is too late.

But there is Good News.

It is never too late for civil disobedience. Have you heard of the velvet revolution? If the Czech's can overthrow the Communist Regime there, without shooting a shot, why can't we do the same here?

http://czechfolks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sk-velvet-revolution1.jpg
http://www.commieblaster.com/images/velvet-revolution/velvet+revolution.jpg

If the Czech's can mobilize 500,000 to a million in peaceful civil disobedience, why can't us Americans with a history of non-cooperation and rebellion get 10 million?

FSP-Rebel
09-25-2010, 04:56 PM
If any of you have been a listener to Free Talk Live, you'd know that CD has been going on in various places of NH for years now. They talk about actual CD events as well as the concept itself quite often. However, it's nice to see Church talking about it.

PreDeadMan
09-25-2010, 06:29 PM
The point is not to use violence against the government or any people. The point is to EXPOSE the government for the violent gang that they are by not fighting back and just not cooperating with their stupid demands. If people who are statists see the government for the violent institution it is, it will change their whole perspective on everything :)

heavenlyboy34
09-25-2010, 06:34 PM
It is never too late for civil disobedience. Have you heard of the velvet revolution? If the Czech's can overthrow the Communist Regime there, without shooting a shot, why can't we do the same here?

http://czechfolks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sk-velvet-revolution1.jpg
http://www.commieblaster.com/images/velvet-revolution/velvet+revolution.jpg

If the Czech's can mobilize 500,000 to a million in peaceful civil disobedience, why can't us Americans with a history of non-cooperation and rebellion get 10 million?

Because as long as people can live relatively comfortably under tyranny (i.e.-getting welfare, bailouts, etc), they won't rebel. It is only when it becomes severely uncomfortable will the bourgois Americans (spoiled by the age of easy money) be motivated to rebel.

Anti Federalist
09-25-2010, 06:36 PM
It is never too late for civil disobedience. Have you heard of the velvet revolution? If the Czech's can overthrow the Communist Regime there, without shooting a shot, why can't we do the same here?

http://czechfolks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sk-velvet-revolution1.jpg
http://www.commieblaster.com/images/velvet-revolution/velvet+revolution.jpg

If the Czech's can mobilize 500,000 to a million in peaceful civil disobedience, why can't us Americans with a history of non-cooperation and rebellion get 10 million?

Because even here, on this site, filled with people who should know better, there are state apologists and panty wetters that don't have the balls to even think about it.

In this thread,

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=261738

where our very own Reason, not even committing CD but obeying and following the law, and there were detractors.

heavenlyboy34
09-25-2010, 06:38 PM
Because even here, on this site, filled with people who should know better, there are state apologists and panty wetters that don't have the balls to even think about it.

In this thread, where our very own Reason, not even committing CD but obeying and following the law, and there were detractors.

QFT!...and it's a darned shame. :(

osan
09-25-2010, 06:40 PM
If the Czech's can overthrow the Communist Regime there, without shooting a shot, why can't we do the same here?

If the Czech's can mobilize 500,000 to a million in peaceful civil disobedience, why can't us Americans with a history of non-cooperation and rebellion get 10 million?

That, my friend, is the $64 question. Why, indeed.

Anti Federalist
09-25-2010, 06:49 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/S0U6d1mcrXI/AAAAAAAAFUQ/6jrPVejMcV4/s640/IcelandPetition.jpg

http://www.savingiceland.org/wp-content/gallery/cache/1239__320x240_ap_iceland_protest_fire_090102_mn.jp g

Anti Federalist
09-25-2010, 06:52 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01514/wall-art-2_1514069c.jpg

BuddyRey
09-27-2010, 03:09 AM
It's well past time. But as long as people keep clinging to the idea that politics is the be-all and end-all of social change, other methods like agorism and civil disobedience will take a backstage. Politics has a place, of course, but I hate to see these other crucial prongs in the attack plan neglected.

steve005
09-27-2010, 03:27 AM
Yes!

Danke
09-27-2010, 07:07 AM
http://i54.tinypic.com/34i4nxw.jpg

Fredom101
09-27-2010, 07:56 AM
It is never too late for civil disobedience. Have you heard of the velvet revolution? If the Czech's can overthrow the Communist Regime there, without shooting a shot, why can't we do the same here?

http://czechfolks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sk-velvet-revolution1.jpg
http://www.commieblaster.com/images/velvet-revolution/velvet+revolution.jpg

If the Czech's can mobilize 500,000 to a million in peaceful civil disobedience, why can't us Americans with a history of non-cooperation and rebellion get 10 million?

Because the Czech's just wanted to get rid of communism and upgrade to "democracy". Nearly every Czech citizen agreed on this. On the other hand, some Americans WANT to downgrade to more socialism, some are happy with fascism, some want smaller government and others want no government at all.

If we anarcho-capitalists say stopped obeying and got arrested in droves, most Americans would say "they're selfish and not paying their fare share. They deserve to be in jail."

That's why government doesn't have to lift a finger to control us. We do that just fine ourselves.

I do believe, however, that tactical CD is effective, and if we all dropped the idea of voting as a solution to change and focused on CD, some small things at least may change for the better.

fj45lvr
09-27-2010, 09:59 AM
I wish there were that many on our side. I'm highly skeptical.

where do you live? In rural area or in a city? Rural U.S. knows the tyranny of the Feds like the colonists over resources, water, etc. I think you would be surprised that there in reality is brewing a showdown rural vs. urban in the land.

NerveShocker
09-27-2010, 10:05 AM
I don't know but I have a quote I wanted to use that is perfect for this.



If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed.

If you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly.

You may come to a moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you

and only a precarious chance of survival.

There may even be a worst case.

You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory because it is better to perish

than to live as slaves. ~Winston Churchill

fedup100
09-27-2010, 10:19 AM
Yes it is well past time and here's why. I fear after this election we will witness first hand the government murdering the citizenry.

We are not in politics as usual, that is the rub. Most people either through denial or ignorance cannot grasp that we have been overthrown and the new czar is getting things ready to make sure there will be no one left to oppose their plans.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg157.htm


The countdown clock and the last chance for “The Founder’s Legacy” of patriotic Americans willing to lay it all on the line for a new Republic, has hit 0:00. Rebellion is no longer an option, a late night “what if” discussion around a bottle of good wine and snacks.

It is now the mandated response of oath keeping citizens and Constitutional defending men and women who have heard Paul Revere in 2010. That “watchman,” who made the most famous call to prepare for rebellion in the history of the world, has come again, through all of us who have been riding across our land for several years and warned of the arrival of this most critical moment.

It did not materialize lightly or without a desperate realization that it was on the way, and when it did appear at the horizon, life has not and will not ever be the same. Whether you accept this assessment or not, you will be involved in its reality, prepared or not, on board with the need to reclaim this country for freedom’s sake or not, courageous enough to muster with the band of the free and brave or not, you WILL still be counted among those who stood and fought with your countrymen, or posterity will judge you as cowards unworthy to live free.


In a nutshell, that is why we are where we are right now. We have been worn slick by flim flam men and women of the worst kind. Good is evil and evil is good. The “looking glass world” of Alice and the rabbit has taken us straight to the Queen of Hearts and he is the President and his evil court.

When precious friends and long contributing watchmen like Steve Quayle, Hawk Talon, Chuck Baldwin, and other warriors in the trenches pull up the tent and trek to the mountains, “then look up, for your redemption draweth nigh.” God speed and protect these wise men and their families.

I pray the same for you and your families.

Anti Federalist
09-27-2010, 11:35 AM
http://i54.tinypic.com/34i4nxw.jpg

http://whall.org/blog/files/lolcats-rofl.jpg

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
09-29-2010, 05:43 PM
you old farts are as bad as the chicken hawk neocons. We've got plenty of potential doing this the legal way.

Since when do young men solve problems? I can still remember back when I was young and I wasn't worth shooting. Now that I'm old I'm worth shooting, but just barely. When there is a young man in this world worth shooting, please, let me know.