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View Full Version : SocialCons are buying into the GOP "Pledge To America"




Matt Collins
09-24-2010, 01:24 PM
http://reason.com/blog/2010/09/24/social-cons-who-heart-the-pled

Brett85
09-24-2010, 01:31 PM
http://reason.com/blog/2010/09/24/social-cons-who-heart-the-pled

Ron Paul is pro life. At least on that social issue there isn't always a lot of difference between libertarians and social conservatives.

erowe1
09-24-2010, 01:53 PM
Ron Paul is pro life. At least on that social issue there isn't always a lot of difference between libertarians and social conservatives.

And generally speaking, when someone's a social conservative, abortion is THE issue that makes them one. Then, after that, resisting the gay agenda's efforts to expand government involvement in marriage by redefining the word to include gay couples is a secondary (but often still important) issue, and that is another one where their view meshes well with libertarianism.

There's this idea out there that the drug war is the result of the influence of social conservatives, but that's really not the case. That issue is hardly on their radar. And the most influential political forces out there pushing to keep drug laws seem to be coming from corners other than the religious right.

Old school social conservatives, like the Eagle Forum types, are probably the closest allies we have in the GOP. The problem is, the current manifestation of social conservatism in the GOP is this compassionate conservatism exemplified by Huckabee and G.W. Bush, where they try to mix in the welfare state agenda of the Christian left. My guess is that, for the most part, it's these compassionate conservatives who like the pledge.

Edit: Looking over the examples in the article, I think that's right about most of those being more big-government friendly compassionate conservative style socons. Also, it's worth pointing out that the pledge doesn't really have socially conservative stuff that Ron Paul supporters should object to that I noticed. Even on abortion, it looks like the main thing is not to have taxpayer funding for it. Was there other socon stuff I missed that people here don't like?

Brett85
09-24-2010, 01:56 PM
And generally speaking, when someone's a social conservative, abortion is THE issue that makes them one. Then, after that, resisting the gay agenda's efforts to expand government involvement in marriage by redefining the word to include gay couples is a secondary (but often still important) issue, and that is another one where their view meshes well with libertarianism.

There's this idea out there that the drug war is the result of the influence of social conservatives, but that's really not the case. That issue is hardly on their radar.

Old school social conservatives, like the Eagle Forum types, are probably the closest allies we have in the GOP. The problem is, the current manifestation of social conservatism in the GOP is this compassionate conservatism exemplified by Huckabee and G.W. Bush, where they try to mix in the welfare state agenda of the Christian left. My guess is that, for the most part, it's these compassionate conservatives who like the pledge.

Agreed. I'm pro life and opposed to government recognition of gay marriages, but I also support decriminalizing drug use and prostitution, as those are victimless crimes. I wish that more conservatives would have that platform.

randolphfuller
09-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Dr.Paul's view on abortion is clearly his own, and a distinct minority among libertarians, as he would be the first to tell you.

randolphfuller
09-24-2010, 02:04 PM
The Sunday before the invasion of Iraq in all evagelical churches the entire congregation stood and sang lustily "Onward Christian Soldiers". Some allies!!

Brett85
09-24-2010, 02:06 PM
Dr.Paul's view on abortion is clearly his own, and a distinct minority among libertarians, as he would be the first to tell you.

Maybe so, but Ron Paul is probably the most well known libertarian at the moment. Ron Paul has made the statement that you can't defend liberty if you don't defend life.

erowe1
09-24-2010, 02:08 PM
The Sunday before the invasion of Iraq in all evagelical churches the entire congregation stood and sang lustily "Onward Christian Soldiers". Some allies!!

1) That's not true.
2) What's wrong with the song, "Onward Christian Soldiers"?

Matt Collins
09-24-2010, 02:08 PM
Dr.Paul's view on abortion is clearly his own, and a distinct minority among libertarians, as he would be the first to tell you.Every libertarian I know personally all thinks that abortion should be illegal because it infringes upon the right of the unborn child by initiating force against them. I have met very very very very few libertarians who think abortion should be legal.

Dr.3D
09-24-2010, 02:14 PM
The Sunday before the invasion of Iraq in all evagelical churches the entire congregation stood and sang lustily "Onward Christian Soldiers". Some allies!!
Did you visit all of the evangelical churches to find out about this or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

silentshout
09-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Every libertarian I know personally all thinks that abortion should be illegal because it infringes upon the right of the unborn child by initiating force against them. I have met very very very very few libertarians who think abortion should be legal.

From the few libertarians i know, they are about split 50/50 on this.

Justinjj1
09-24-2010, 02:29 PM
Every libertarian I know personally all thinks that abortion should be illegal because it infringes upon the right of the unborn child by initiating force against them. I have met very very very very few libertarians who think abortion should be legal.

This is the total opposite that I have noticed. The Libertarian position used to be that it should be legal, and it wasn't until I found out about Ron Paul that I started coming across anti-abortion libertarians.

oyarde
09-24-2010, 02:50 PM
Did you visit all of the evangelical churches to find out about this or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

lol

ChaosControl
09-24-2010, 04:56 PM
Strengthening the family is done best within the family or at most within the community. So sure work to make your community family friendly. It isn't really a federal issue, although I do think Abortion does need to be outlawed federally.

Most all issues, social and economic, are local issues. So we need to shrink federal government in all forms and return these issues to the local communities where people know what is best for them.

cindy25
09-24-2010, 08:45 PM
a libertarian can be either pro-life or pro-choice, with legitimate arguments on both sides.

but on other social issues-the war on drugs, conscription, don't ask, don't tell, patriot act-there can be only one legitimate libertarian position

erowe1
09-24-2010, 08:48 PM
a libertarian can be either pro-life or pro-choice, with legitimate arguments on both sides.

but on other social issues-the war on drugs, conscription, don't ask, don't tell, patriot act-there can be only one legitimate libertarian position

I wouldn't call conscription or Patriot Act socially conservative issues. And I don't see how there's anything anti-libertarian about DADT, just as there would be nothing anti-libertarian about excluding women (or for that matter left-handed people, people with freckles, Milli Vanilli fans, or any other group) from the military.