UK proposes all paychecks go to the state first

[MN Patriot]

The next step towards total tax slavery:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847


The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

Will the Tea Party / Libertarian Party ever have courage enough to propose outlawing payroll tax withholding? Just throwing that idea out there may be enough to incite a tax revolt. Maybe even some Democrats might realize how much they are being robbed every payday, if they had to write a check every month to the Federal government.

The Libertarian Party should run candidates for all Congressional seats proposing to do this very thing. Then challenge the Republicans to support this idea. Then it would become clear to all of us, we are tax slaves to the party in power, be it Republicans or Democrats. This is why I'm am still skeptical of the Tea Party takeover of the Republican Party; we are still slaves to government, only the Republicans will be in charge.

[Vessol]

Most Brits won't give a shit. A good majority of Brits I've talked to absolutely love the State.

Infact, one of them even outright told me that all property belongs to the government.

[AuH20]

Most Brits won't give a shit. A good majority of Brits I've talked to absolutely love the State.

Infact, one of them even outright told me that all property belongs to the government.

The Brits have been successfully "domesticated" and disarmed. It's rather tragic.

[Vessol]

The Brits have been successfully "domesticated" and disarmed. It's rather tragic.

Especially considering that classical liberalism(libertarianism) comes from Britain..

[MN Patriot]

Any opinions about Tea Party candidates proposing to outlaw payroll tax withholding? Too radical? Might alarm people? Don't give a shit (like the Brit's)?

[specialK]

The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.

Big Ben & London Eye
Sharon Lorimer
The proposal by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) stresses the need for employers to provide real-time information to the government so that it can monitor all payments and make a better assessment of whether the correct tax is being paid.

Currently employers withhold tax and pay the government, providing information at the end of the year, a system know as Pay as You Earn (PAYE). There is no option for those employees to refuse withholding and individually file a tax return at the end of the year.

If the real-time information plan works, it further proposes that employers hand over employee salaries to the government first.

"The next step could be to use (real-time) information as the basis for centralizing the calculation and deduction of tax," HMRC said in a July discussion paper.

HMRC described the plan as "radical" as it would be a huge change from the current system that has been largely unchanged for 66 years.

Even though the centralized deductions proposal would provide much-needed oversight, there are some major concerns, George Bull, head of Tax at Baker Tilly, told CNBC.com.

"If HMRC has direct access to employees' bank accounts and makes a mistake, people are going to feel very exposed and vulnerable," Bull said.

And the chance of widespread mistakes could be high, according to Bull. HMRC does not have a good track record of handling large computer systems and has suffered high-profile errors with data, he said.

The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said.

If there's a mistake and the HMRC collects too much money, the difficulty of getting it back could be high with repayments of tax taking weeks or months, he said.

"There has to be some very clear understanding of how quickly repayments were made if there was a mistake," Bull said.

HMRC estimated the potential savings to employers from the introduction of the concept would be about £500 million ($780 million).

But the cost of implementing the new system would be "phenomenal," Bull pointed out.

"It's very clear that the system does need to be modernized… It's outdated, it's outmoded," Emma Boon, campaigner manager at the Tax Payers' Alliance, told CNBC.com.

Boon said that the Tax Payers' Alliance was in favor of simplifying tax collection, but stressed that a new complex computer system would add infrastructure and administration costs at a time when the government is trying to reduce spending.

There is a further concern, according to Bull. The centralized storage of so much data poises a security risk as the system may be open to cyber crime.

As well as security issues, there's a huge issue of transparency, according to Boon.

Boon also questioned HMCR's ability to handle to the role effectively.

The Institute of Directors (IoD), a UK organization created to promote the business agenda of directors and entreprenuers, said in a press release it had major concerns about the proposal to allow employees' pay to be paid directly to HMRC.

The IoD said the shift to a real-time, centralized system could be positive as long as the burden on employers was not increased. But it added that the idea of wages being processed by HMRC was "completely unacceptable."

“This document contains a lot of good ideas. But the idea that HMRC should be trusted with the gross pay of employees is not one of them," Richard Baron, Head of Taxation at the IoD, said in the release.

A spokesperson for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne was not immediately available for comment.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847

[Cowlesy]

What do you even say to something like this?

Try this in the USA. I dare you.

[fedup100]

What do you even say to something like this?

Try this in the USA. I dare you.

First off this is withholding which we were soaked with years ago. Zero and piglousy went a bit furthur a few months ago with zero care.

The us gov (irs) can now (n starting in January 2011 ) monitor your bank account in real time and they can take any amount they deem appropriate out of your bank account without your consent.

[Anti Federalist]

What do you even say to something like this?

Try this in the USA. I dare you.

On it's way, brother.

The UK is the beta testing ground for what comes here next.

I'm convinced that's one of the reasons you see all these limey cocksuckers all over the media anymore.

It's not stretch at all to imagine a government that says it can tell you what kind of toilet you can have or light bulbs or forces you to buy a product you don't want, can insist that all paychecks come to it first and then, once having extracted whatever it feels like first, disburses what's left to you.

Perfect idea, from the government's standpoint, since it can also access everything else about you and "deduct" more as it sees fit.

Oh, our electronic medical records show you have a history of heart disease, we'll have to take more to cover universal health care.

Oh, our electronic prison records show you were in jail 20 years ago for a DUI, we'll have to deduct more to cover the cost to the state for throwing you in a cage.

Oh, our Terrorist Watch List records have you listed as a "person of interest", you don't get paid at all.

And too many of the world weary poseurs right here, (who scoff and mock the "conspiracy crowd" that's been yelling and screaming about this stuff), and who should damn well know better, along with the clueless general public, could care less.

They'll do it, and a whole lot worse and more, and nobody will do a fucking thing about it.

Goddamnit, this story lit my ass up...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Geesaroni/RageFace.png

http://hooniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/RageFace2.png

[MN Patriot]

First off this is withholding which we were soaked with years ago. Zero and piglousy went a bit furthur a few months ago with zero care.

The us gov (irs) can now (n starting in January 2011 ) monitor your bank account in real time and they can take any amount they deem appropriate out of your bank account without your consent.

Withholding from our paychecks started in WWII as a "temporary" measure to help fund the war. No such thing as temporary when government is concerned.

Like I keep saying, when does the revolution begin? I mean a REAL revolution that rebels against our status as tax slaves?

I keep repeating this idea about proposing legislation to outlaw tax withholding, but no replies. What gives? :confused:

Are people content to be slaves, but they just want to vent a little and complain about their masters? "Hey, Mr Republican politician sir. Would you please do me a little favor and reduce my tax burden just a little? A couple of percent would be fine. Thank you, sorry to bother you. And if you can't reduce my taxes, reduce it for the rich so at least some of that trickle down gets to me."

[MN Patriot]

On it's way, brother.

The UK is the beta testing ground for what comes here next.

I'm convinced that's one of the reasons you see all these limey cocksuckers all over the media anymore.

It's not stretch at all to imagine a government that says it can tell you what kind of toilet you can have or light bulbs or forces you to buy a product you don't want, can insist that all paychecks come to it first and then, once having extracted whatever it feels like first, disburses what's left to you.

Perfect idea, from the government's standpoint, since it can also access everything else about you and "deduct" more as it sees fit.

Oh, our electronic medical records show you have a history of heart disease, we'll have to take more to cover universal health care.

Oh, our electronic prison records show you were in jail 20 years ago for a DUI, we'll have to deduct more to cover the cost to the state for throwing you in a cage.

Oh, our Terrorist Watch List records have you listed as a "person of interest", you don't get paid at all.

And too many of the world weary poseurs right here, (who scoff and mock the "conspiracy crowd" that's been yelling and screaming about this stuff), and who should damn well know better, along with the clueless general public, could care less.

They'll do it, and a whole lot worse and more, and nobody will do a fucking thing about it.

Goddamnit, this story lit my ass up...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Geesaroni/RageFace.png

http://hooniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/RageFace2.png

I am proposing something: get a bunch of Tea Party candidates to propose outlawing income tax withholding. If Republican candidates won't do this, then get as many Libertarian Party congressional candidates to propose this, and get this idea out there. If the LP gets enough coverage for this idea, the Republicans will be pressured to do something about it.

[Anti Federalist]

Withholding from our paychecks started in WWII as a "temporary" measure to help fund the war. No such thing as temporary when government is concerned.

Like I keep saying, when does the revolution begin? I mean a REAL revolution that rebels against our status as tax slaves?

I keep repeating this idea about proposing legislation to outlaw tax withholding, but no replies. What gives? :confused:

Are people content to be slaves, but they just want to vent a little and complain about their masters? "Hey, Mr Republican politician sir. Would you please do me a little favor and reduce my tax burden just a little? A couple of percent would be fine. Thank you, sorry to bother you. And if you can't reduce my taxes, reduce it for the rich so at least some of that trickle down gets to me."

I've been hollering about that for years now.

Not only was it temp measure but it was not so much about taxes as it was a purely socialist wage and price control.

Repeal income withholding.

Make the sheeple cut a check to Uncle Sucker every month for their share of the military/surveillance complex.

I believe Ron Paul sponsored a bill to do just that, back in 1999 IIRC.

[Anti Federalist]

I am proposing something: get a bunch of Tea Party candidates to propose outlawing income tax withholding. If Republican candidates won't do this, then get as many Libertarian Party congressional candidates to propose this, and get this idea out there. If the LP gets enough coverage for this idea, the Republicans will be pressured to do something about it.

I'm onboard.

[Cowlesy]

I am proposing something: get a bunch of Tea Party candidates to propose outlawing income tax withholding. If Republican candidates won't do this, then get as many Libertarian Party congressional candidates to propose this, and get this idea out there. If the LP gets enough coverage for this idea, the Republicans will be pressured to do something about it.

I could imagine what Republican Congressmen Paul Ryan, Mike Pence and Eric Cantor would say to that. "NO WAY. Are you kidding??? Extremists!!!!"

It's a great idea, MN. We should get the new Tea Party caucus that will form to 1.) Repeal the nonsense Obama has passed 2.) Repeal the nonsense Bush has passed 3.) Outlaw any FURTHER nonsense that violates LIBERTY.

[MN Patriot]

I'm onboard.

I live in Michelle Bachmann's district. I have run for US House in this district before, as a Libertarian candidate, so if I were to run again in 2012 I am a credible threat to the Republicans. If they don't want me to take their votes away from their "Tea Party" star, she and the rest of the Tea Party crowd had better start introducing legislation to outlaw payroll withholding.

To induce them to do that, we should get hundreds of us around the country to start our third party campaign early, spring of 2011, and continually hammer this idea across to anybody who will listen.

After the elections, I will be promoting this idea more, so be forewarned. It would be great to get some thoughtful feedback about how to implement this idea effectively, other than the pre-programmed response that "third party = fail", like so many people here repeat.

So everyone reading this: seriously consider running for Congress yourself in 2012.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[youngbuck]

What do you even say to something like this?


That's about what I was gonna say. We are on Earth, right?

[JohnEngland]

As a Brit, how did I not know about this?? I check several of the mainstream newspapers online every day and there was nothing about this! Bastard media... They either just don't care or are incompetent...

And as some of you say, many of my fellow Brits will slavishly accept this. They may not like it (if they ever find out), but they'll do nothing about it - apathy is destroying Britain.

[Anti Federalist]

As a Brit, how did I not know about this?? I check several of the mainstream newspapers online every day and there was nothing about this! Bastard media... They either just don't care or are incompetent...

And as some of you say, many of my fellow Brits will slavishly accept this. They may not like it (if they ever find out), but they'll do nothing about it - apathy is destroying Britain.

I posted another story from the DailyFail about it.

Apparently it's a bunch of shit that was announced at a weekend conference by Nick Clegg.

The government is "cracking down".

And I apologize in advance at my remarks directed at out UK members, but this shit is getting out of hand, especially since I am suffering under the UK bureaucracy myself, even as a US citizen working wholly within the US.

It's getting well past high time to run some Redcoat sons of bitches off again.

[Matt Collins]

The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.


SOURCE:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847

[nate895]

As a Brit, how did I not know about this?? I check several of the mainstream newspapers online every day and there was nothing about this! Bastard media... They either just don't care or are incompetent...

And as some of you say, many of my fellow Brits will slavishly accept this. They may not like it (if they ever find out), but they'll do nothing about it - apathy is destroying Britain.

I think what really destroyed Britain was its wholesale abandonment of the "Ancient Constitution" and common law in favor of the "popular will." The "popular will" and "electoral mandates" are nothing but a joke. As if because someone voted for a member of your party, they support everything on your party's manifesto. It is all really nothing more than a bunch of idiots wanting to steal from everyone else.

[nate895]

I posted another story from the DailyFail about it.

Apparently it's a bunch of shit that was announced at a weekend conference by Nick Clegg.

The government is "cracking down".

And I apologize in advance at my remarks directed at out UK members, but this shit is getting out of hand, especially since I am suffering under the UK bureaucracy myself, even as a US citizen working wholly within the US.

It's getting well past high time to run some Redcoat sons of bitches off again.

I thought that Nick Clegg and the Lib-Dems were supposed to be for "civil liberties?"

What a load of pure, unadulterated, garbage.

[Toureg89]

puts a whole new meaning to the notion the government owns peoples labor...

[Anti Federalist]

I thought that Nick Clegg and the Lib-Dems were supposed to be for "civil liberties?"

What a load of pure, unadulterated, garbage.

You thought wrong, Mundane.

Now, cough it up, and don't you dare try to "cheat" cos' we'll find it.

[Fox McCloud]

Especially considering that classical liberalism(libertarianism) comes from Britain..

Actually it seems to be an equal mix of UK, Austrian, German, and French traditions.

[Dreamofunity]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=261317

[Vessol]

I'd like to see someone say that this ISN'T a redistributionist centrally planned economy.

[phill4paul]

On it's way, brother.

The UK is the beta testing ground for what comes here next.

I'm convinced that's one of the reasons you see all these limey cocksuckers all over the media anymore.

It's not stretch at all to imagine a government that says it can tell you what kind of toilet you can have or light bulbs or forces you to buy a product you don't want, can insist that all paychecks come to it first and then, once having extracted whatever it feels like first, disburses what's left to you.

Perfect idea, from the government's standpoint, since it can also access everything else about you and "deduct" more as it sees fit.

Oh, our electronic medical records show you have a history of heart disease, we'll have to take more to cover universal health care.

Oh, our electronic prison records show you were in jail 20 years ago for a DUI, we'll have to deduct more to cover the cost to the state for throwing you in a cage.

Oh, our Terrorist Watch List records have you listed as a "person of interest", you don't get paid at all.

And too many of the world weary poseurs right here, (who scoff and mock the "conspiracy crowd" that's been yelling and screaming about this stuff), and who should damn well know better, along with the clueless general public, could care less.

They'll do it, and a whole lot worse and more, and nobody will do a fucking thing about it.

Goddamnit, this story lit my ass up...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Geesaroni/RageFace.png

http://hooniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/RageFace2.png

QFT. I'm with ya.

[osan]

The system would be massive in terms of data management, larger than a recent attempt to centralize the National Health Service's data, which was later scrapped, Bull said.

I don't think they begin to know just how nearly impossible this is going to be.

I've managed large projects like this. PA rewrote their unemployment compensation systems in 07. It was the FOURTH attempt. They burned through perhaps $100 million taxpayer dollars in the first three. The third attempt bid out at $110 million and was going to be completed no matter what, so there was an agenda. That system, inordinately complex as it is, is child's play in comparison to what those not-too-bright Brits are proposing. They will fail. I've done enough of these to know that they will fail at least the first time - probably a couple more times, too, at the least.

Let them love their slavery. Stupid bastards.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[keepitlow]

First off this is withholding which we were soaked with years ago. Zero and piglousy went a bit furthur a few months ago with zero care.

The us gov (irs) can now (n starting in January 2011 ) monitor your bank account in real time and they can take any amount they deem appropriate out of your bank account without your consent.

Isn't this real time bank account thing part of Obamacare? So they can take the fine for not affording health insurance right out of your account?

[keepitlow]

As a Brit, how did I not know about this?? I check several of the mainstream newspapers online every day and there was nothing about this! Bastard media... They either just don't care or are incompetent...

And as some of you say, many of my fellow Brits will slavishly accept this. They may not like it (if they ever find out), but they'll do nothing about it - apathy is destroying Britain.

I tried a UK politics forum. My posts were all censored like hell, so I left. And I'm not talking nasty posts. Just regular posts that they may not like the subject due to some prejudices.

You must have a different standard for free speech in the UK. Sure we got some forums in the US that are closed minded. But usually 60% to 75% of them are somewhat openminded. With this forum being on top for free speech.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[fedup100]

Isn't this real time bank account thing part of Obamacare? So they can take the fine for not affording health insurance right out of your account?

Actually the way the unread bill actually reads is they can take what ever they deem you should be paying for zero care and anything else they deem owed. The one thing I do know about the IRS is this, they will take everything they can and you can fight to get it back on your dime.

Remember folks they are the collection agency for the federal reserve.

Zero care was not a health care bill at all, there is no health care in the bull, it was a re write of bogus tax laws and an open door for the IRS to clean all of us out.

This thing is far greater than the outrage proposal now in Britain, we've already been buggered.