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View Full Version : Mike Pence Wins "Values Voters" 2010 Presidential Straw Poll




Sola_Fide
09-18-2010, 02:07 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/18/pence-wins-values-voter-straw-poll/


What do you guys think of Pence?

Brett85
09-18-2010, 02:14 PM
Pence is better on economic issues than all the other Republicans. He voted against the Medicare Prescription Drug bill, No Child Left Behind, and all the bailouts.

bwlibertyman
09-18-2010, 02:16 PM
He's a neocon. He voted for expanding economic war with Iran and for the cybersecurity act. He's george bush from Indiana.

sailingaway
09-18-2010, 02:17 PM
snicker....

oh, Pence is just 'another one'. Not as bad as Romney.

Sola_Fide
09-18-2010, 02:18 PM
Here is Pence on the issue:

http://www.ontheissues.org/in/mike_pence.htm


Definitely a mixed bag....

Galileo Galilei
09-18-2010, 02:18 PM
What are the full numbers and where did Ron Paul place? And why didn't Ron Paul go, or why did he not organize others to go there?

sailingaway
09-18-2010, 02:24 PM
What are the full numbers and where did Ron Paul place? And why didn't Ron Paul go, or why did he not organize others to go there?

The ones running to impose morality tend to win there, which is never going to be Ron, regardless of their 'respect' for him. People discussed whether to organize and decided it had never really been seen as a precursor to the elections the same way CPAC is, for example.

Galileo Galilei
09-18-2010, 02:26 PM
The ones running to impose morality tend to win there, which is never going to be Ron, regardless of their 'respect' for him. People discussed whether to organize and decided it had never really been seen as a precursor to the elections the same way CPAC is, for example.

I'm sure he knows what he is doing. What I fear is that the media is going to start promoting Pence as a tea party candidate.

sofia
09-18-2010, 02:29 PM
neo con garbage...

move along

sailingaway
09-18-2010, 02:31 PM
I'm sure he knows what he is doing. What I fear is that the media is going to start promoting Pence as a tea party candidate.

Probably.

Have you seen the age of some of those guys in DC calling themselves 'young guns'?

Marketing and reality are often at odds.

Galileo Galilei
09-18-2010, 02:34 PM
Probably.

Have you seen the age of some of those guys in DC calling themselves 'young guns'?

Marketing and reality are often at odds.

The media is looking for another candidate, because at this time, the only sure GOP candidates I see are Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, and Tim Pawlenty. If those are the three front-runners, then Ron Paul becomes very dangerous to the establishment, and easily the top tea party candidate.

erowe1
09-18-2010, 02:37 PM
Pence is better on economic issues than all the other Republicans. He voted against the Medicare Prescription Drug bill, No Child Left Behind, and all the bailouts.

He did vote for Bush's first bailout, the one with the $600 welfare check that was given out to everyone in the form of a tax credit. But that one was admittedly less eggregious than the ones that came after that. You're right that he's overall more consistent fiscally than most Republicans, if we want to set the bar that low.

I'm not a fan, especially on foreign policy. He recently gave a speech or made a press release or something (I forget exactly what it was) where he insisted on no bailouts for foreign countries. Not long after that he voted for more foreign aid for Israel. He also gave this interview to the Christian Broadcasting Network where he says that the US Federal government needs to be committed to help Israel in any way that the government of Israel demands, effectively putting American taxpayers at the mercy of a foreign government that we didn't elect.
http://www.themajlis.org/2010/02/04/rep-mike-pence-israel-should-dictate-us-policy

Galileo Galilei
09-18-2010, 02:43 PM
Full Results:

Full results of the straw poll (presidential preference):

Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind. (24%)

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (22%)

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney (13%)

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (10%)

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (7%)

Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum (5%)

Sen. Jim DeMint (5%)

Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (2%)

Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels (2%)

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (2%)

Sen. John Thune, R-S.D. (2%)

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell - 1 percent

Former Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio (1%)

Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Il. (1%A)

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour (1%)

Rep. Ron Paul, R-Tex. (1%)

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (less than 1%)

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2010/09/values-voter-straw-poll-results-mike-pence-comes-out-on-top.html

Brett
09-18-2010, 02:57 PM
Pence is definitely up at the top of my list, behind the obvoius (Ron, Schiff, the Judge) and just behind DeMint and Coburn. We could definitely do a lot worst, and lumping everyone who isn't perfect as a "neocon" gets us nowhere and diminishes the meaning of the word. People are allowed to be just Conservatives, somewhere between Libertarian and Neocon.

erowe1
09-18-2010, 03:01 PM
We could definitely do a lot worst, and lumping everyone who isn't perfect as a "neocon" gets us nowhere and diminishes the meaning of the word.

Do you think Pence is not a neocon? If so, what do you base that on?

Galileo Galilei
09-18-2010, 03:05 PM
Pence is going to get A LOT of publicity out of this.

Wren
09-18-2010, 03:28 PM
YouTube - Pence: "Mr. President, Whose Side Are You On?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c09RyJC0JqI)


Neo-Conservative. Aipac lapdog.

Anti Federalist
09-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Neo-Conservative. Aipac lapdog.

That ^^^

Which explains why he won a straw poll taken among Christian Zionists.

pcosmar
09-18-2010, 03:44 PM
People are allowed to be just Conservatives, somewhere between Libertarian and Neocon.

Conservative?

"that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

YouTube - You keep using that word. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk)

KCIndy
09-18-2010, 04:23 PM
I live in Pence's district.

IMHO he's planning on running for Prez in '12.

It's going to be fun watching him and Mitch Daniels (current Indiana governor who *also* has White House ambitions) jockey for position with the Indiana voters starting in January of next year, ha!

AlexMerced
09-18-2010, 04:26 PM
I saw his speech at the VVS, it was alright I didn't find him all that special, he made a funny crack at Pelosi, but he talks in that overly dramatic insincere politician tone... that's always a major turn off.

I know most people buy into that kind of talking, but I like Ron Paul, it sounds like Ron Paul is talking not some prepared propaganda. When Mike Pence started talking about foreign policy and social issues he lost me... but he could be a lot worse, but he's not my short list.

Short List:
Ron Paul
Gary Johnson
Jim Demint

Brett
09-18-2010, 04:52 PM
Conservative?

"that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

YouTube - You keep using that word. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk)

Then using the word neocon is just as bad, neo meaning new, it means you're accepting that this is the new type of Conservatism.

pcosmar
09-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Then using the word neocon is just as bad, neo meaning new, it means you're accepting that this is the new type of Conservatism.

I never said that I accepted it. That is just what it is called.

McCain, Romney and Bush have all been called "conservative'.
I reject that.
;)

Imaginos
09-18-2010, 05:51 PM
He's a neocon. He voted for expanding economic war with Iran and for the cybersecurity act. He's george bush from Indiana.
This.

sofia
09-18-2010, 06:04 PM
Pence is definitely up at the top of my list, behind the obvoius (Ron, Schiff, the Judge) and just behind DeMint and Coburn. We could definitely do a lot worst, and lumping everyone who isn't perfect as a "neocon" gets us nowhere and diminishes the meaning of the word. People are allowed to be just Conservatives, somewhere between Libertarian and Neocon.

you can shrug off the mass killing of a million Arabs....and the 1 trillion dollars wasted annually for maintaining a global empire...as "somewhere between Libertarian and Neocon

I catagorize those positions as morally reprehensible as well as fiscally irresponsible.

But hey....maybe Pence will balance the budget by cutting earmarks...:rolleyes:

Brett85
09-18-2010, 09:32 PM
He's a neocon. He voted for expanding economic war with Iran and for the cybersecurity act. He's george bush from Indiana.

Economic war with Iran? Are you talking about sanctions? I think all but 12 members of the house voted for sanctions against Iran. By saying that 98% of the U.S. house members are "neocons," that word becomes completely meaningless.

brenden.b
09-18-2010, 09:47 PM
This board definitely over uses the word "Neo-Con"... There is quite a distinct definition for Neo-Conservatism. I would reccomend everyone give it a read before you go around calling everyone you disagree with one.

Anti Federalist
09-18-2010, 10:02 PM
This board definitely over uses the word "Neo-Con"... There is quite a distinct definition for Neo-Conservatism. I would reccomend everyone give it a read before you go around calling everyone you disagree with one.

1.
They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2.
They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3.
They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4.
They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5.
They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6.
They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
7.
They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8.
They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9.
They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10.
They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11.
They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12.
They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13.
Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
14.
9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
15.
They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
16.
They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
17.
They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

speciallyblend
09-18-2010, 10:11 PM
1.
They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2.
They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3.
They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4.
They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5.
They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6.
They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
7.
They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8.
They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9.
They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10.
They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11.
They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12.
They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13.
Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
14.
9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
15.
They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
16.
They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
17.
They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

i think everyone i have called a neo-con falls under this umbrella!

brenden.b
09-18-2010, 10:17 PM
1.
They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2.
They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3.
They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4.
They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5.
They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6.
They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
7.
They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8.
They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9.
They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10.
They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11.
They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12.
They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13.
Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
14.
9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
15.
They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
16.
They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
17.
They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

Thank you for posting this.

RP4US
09-18-2010, 10:26 PM
Pence is better on economic issues than all the other Republicans. He voted against the Medicare Prescription Drug bill, No Child Left Behind, and all the bailouts.


Really? Pence knows economics better than Ron Paul? I have seen no evidence of that. Does Pence discuss abolishing the Federal Reserve? The very entity that is breaking this nation financially? Does Pence discuss our money being backed by precious metals? What has Pence DONE in office to reduce/eliminate the national debt?

During the Tea Party rally in Washington last year I heard Pence discuss how Congress needs to read the bills. So I wrote to Mr. Pence and asked him why he had not yet sponsored Downsize DC.org's bill "Read the Bills Act" and he never responded. Pence, like most Republicans spouts a lot of rheteric but does very little to obey the Constitution.

Is Pence co-sponsoring any of the following bills?

H.R. 2533 - The Sanctity of Human Life Act - Defines life beginning at conception and this bill would basically overturn Roe vs. Wade.

H.R. 216 - Amends the Rules of the House of Representatives to ensure that Members have a reasonable amount of time to read legislation that will be voted upon.

H.J. 48 - Would abolish the personal income, estate, and gift taxes.

H.R. 220 - Protects the integrity and confidentiality of Social Security account numbers and would prohibit the establishment in the Federal Government of any uniform national identifying number.

H.R. 833 - Abolishes the Federal Reserve Board and repeal the Federal Reserve Act.

H.R. 1146 - Would end membership of the United States in the United Nations.

H.R. 4995 - Allows Americans the freedom to choose the health insurance that best meets their individual needs by repealing the mandate that all Americans obtain government-approved health insurance.

H.R. 5444 - This bill repeals ALL of ObamaCare and replaces it with free market reforms, such as creating a FULL deduction for medical expenses, allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines, and strengthening health savings accounts.

erowe1
09-19-2010, 11:34 AM
Economic war with Iran? Are you talking about sanctions? I think all but 12 members of the house voted for sanctions against Iran. By saying that 98% of the U.S. house members are "neocons," that word becomes completely meaningless.

Maybe. But if we go with Antifederalist's definition, 98% of Congress really are neocons.


1.
They agree with Trotsky on permanent revolution, violent as well as intellectual.
2.
They are for redrawing the map of the Middle East and are willing to use force to do so.
3.
They believe in preemptive war to achieve desired ends.
4.
They accept the notion that the ends justify the means – that hard-ball politics is a moral necessity.
5.
They express no opposition to the welfare state.
6.
They are not bashful about an American empire; instead they strongly endorse it.
7.
They believe lying is necessary for the state to survive.
8.
They believe a powerful federal government is a benefit.
9.
They believe pertinent facts about how a society should be run should be held by the elite and withheld from those who do not have the courage to deal with it.
10.
They believe neutrality in foreign affairs is ill-advised.
11.
They hold Leo Strauss in high esteem.
12.
They believe imperialism, if progressive in nature, is appropriate.
13.
Using American might to force American ideals on others is acceptable. Force should not be limited to the defense of our country.
14.
9-11 resulted from the lack of foreign entanglements, not from too many.
15.
They dislike and despise libertarians (therefore, the same applies to all strict constitutionalists).
16.
They endorse attacks on civil liberties, such as those found in the Patriot Act, as being necessary.
17.
They unconditionally support Israel and have a close alliance with the Likud Party.

I actually don't think that's a good definition, since in all 17 points it has, it neglects to mention the single most essential defining feature, which is promotion of democracy abroad. I don't know what else is necessary for someone to be a neoconservative. But promoting democracy abroad is something without which no one can be one.

That said, if Pence were on trial for neoconservatism, either using Antifederalist's definition or mine, based on his record and clear positions, a pretty strong case for a guilty verdict could be made.

HOLLYWOOD
09-20-2010, 12:31 AM
Mike Pence is a Demagogue Warmongering Zionist Boot Licker... this guy is always pandering to the 2%.

Pence is one of the Republican clowns that held their inner circle secret meeting in Virginia after the GOP got slammed-dunked by Obama/Democrats in November 2008. Of course, 1/2 the Capital Hill republicans knew nothing of Bunker get together.

When that opportunist was out at the National mall hanging on Jim DeMint's shirttail, for the Tax Day Protest... it was sickening how these inner circle RINOs use the people's movements to ride the wave. I see this is right in line with Rupert Murdoch/Roger Ailes and the NEOCON agenda pushing their boy to the top.

This guy's only Values is to increase the value of his stature in the Establishment's Empire. Indianans are fools to constantly reelect this puppet.

PS: Didn't Congressman Mike Pence come in last at CPAC? This "Values Game" is Rigged bunch of BS... watch them run with it and put lipstick on this Pig Pence, just like McCain in '08.

newyearsrevolution08
09-20-2010, 12:42 AM
I am just sick of the tea party line crossing in general. It's just something catchy like saying you are a conservative now. I want to hear candidates who will actually follow the constitution and work towards getting us back to what we were.

Suzu
09-20-2010, 02:53 AM
I will never forget how he seemed to be channeling W at the SRLC, and how vehemently he cried out, "AMERICA STANDS WITH ISRAEL!!!"

Made me want to puke!

cindy25
09-20-2010, 08:27 AM
supporting a neo-con for governor is harmless, even for congress or senate I can see where fiscal issues take priority.

but for president, I prefer the socialist (preferably with a Republican congress) to a neo-con

Elwar
09-20-2010, 08:45 AM
So...Pence won amongst the Republicans that are responsible for the problems we're in right now...

That's not saying much.

Theocrat
09-20-2010, 08:56 AM
There is a common issue amongst "Values Voters" which no candidate stands a chance of their support if they are not for it: protection and preservation of Israel. For all their rants against issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, "Values Voters" make the support of Israel their primary value for whether a candidate is good or bad. A candidate can be pro-life and anti-homosexual unions, but if he does not endorse foreign aid to Israel, he will not be endorsed by "Values Voters." Congressman Paul is a prime example of that.

It basically boils down to a theological problem on an eschatological level for those "Values Voters." That's why non-Christians who support Dr. Paul will never be able to scratch the surface of engaging these "Values Voters" to change their ways. The issues they hold dear go much deeper than any non-Christian is willing to handle.

Suzu
09-22-2010, 10:47 AM
Surely there must be many exceptions to that rule. I personally have a lot of friends who are 100% "values voters" and they want this country to have nothing to do with Israel. They fully support Ron Paul.

JeremyDahl
09-22-2010, 11:10 AM
I will call Ron Paul anything that breaks down the barriers...

I don't care what people believe, as long as it is that Paul and his message are superior choices...


I would even promote a "strong national defense" to return to constitutional governing

kpfareal
09-22-2010, 11:49 AM
There is a common issue amongst "Values Voters" which no candidate stands a chance of their support if they are not for it: protection and preservation of Israel. For all their rants against issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, "Values Voters" make the support of Israel their primary value for whether a candidate is good or bad. A candidate can be pro-life and anti-homosexual unions, but if he does not endorse foreign aid to Israel, he will not be endorsed by "Values Voters." Congressman Paul is a prime example of that.

It basically boils down to a theological problem on an eschatological level for those "Values Voters." That's why non-Christians who support Dr. Paul will never be able to scratch the surface of engaging these "Values Voters" to change their ways. The issues they hold dear go much deeper than any non-Christian is willing to handle.

I agree 100%

Anti Federalist
09-22-2010, 11:51 AM
Maybe. But if we go with Antifederalist's definition, 98% of Congress really are neocons.

For the purpose of clarity it should be noted that those points are not my definition but Ron Paul's definition as stated in his "Neo-Conned" House speech.