Better Not Draw Mohammed

[FrankRep]

http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/stories/AP-3-2010/mhell-ap.001.jpg



If Anwar al-Awlaki gets his way, the last sound cartoonist Molly Morris will hear is the swish of a scimitar. Or, more likely, a bomb blast. by R. Cort Kirkwood


Better Not Draw Mohammed (http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/4626-better-not-draw-mohammed)


R. Cort Kirkwood | The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
17 September 2010

[Natalie]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.

[JoshLowry]

But they want to kill us!

We should make them angry as fuck!

[Cowlesy]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.

But we need a War with Iran....

[Liberty Star]

If someone did not take the time to draw cartoon of innocent Iraqi children and Iraqis blown to piece from a smart bomb thrown from air, why would they take the time to draw their holy religious leaders?

It seems like tactic to mingle deep anger in muslim world about killing of large number of muslim population in Iraq from revenge attack with anger against violation of things muslims hold sacred.

In Iraq bloodshed context, it does not look like "freedom of expression" or expression of mere frustration , it starts to looks like a racism play.

[FrankRep]

South Park Muhammad Cartoon Sparks Jihad Death Threats

YouTube - South Park Muhammad Cartoon Sparks Jihadi Death Threats - Ayaan Hirsi Ali (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh4mi2Ea_7o)

[BlackTerrel]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.

So your issue is with the artist rather than the people that are threatening her with death?

South Park made a million jokes about Christians over the years. In one episode they showed Jesus taking a dump on the American flag. Then in the same episode they wanted to show "Mohammed just standing there". But Comedy Central censored it for fear of Muslim retaliation.

Some "artist" put Christ in urine and showed it off in a museum in New York City. Again no one was hurt.

Now some random chick in Seattle named Molly Norris wanted to prove a point about South Park and draw Mohammed (she eventually backed off scared for her life) and now she has to go into hiding and change her name.

I have a feeling if she made fun of Christians more people here would be defending her.

[BlackTerrel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Holocaust_Cartoon_Competition


International Holocaust Cartoon Contest was a cartoon competition sponsored by the Iranian newspaper Hamshahri, to denounce what it called 'Western hypocrisy on freedom of speech'....

....On November 1, 2006, Abdellah Derkaoui, a Moroccan, was announced as the winner and received the first prize of $12,000. The second prize of $8,000 was divided between the Brazilian cartoonist Carlos Latuff and Chard, from France. One prize went to Italy, two prizes to Morocco, one prize to Jordan, one to Syria, three to Brazil, and several prizes went to Iranians.[16]

How many people died because of this? Did any of these people in France, Brazil, Italy etc... have to go into hiding?

[Liberty Star]

South Park Muhammad Cartoon Sparks Jihad Death Threats



It probably did but its mostly a deflection. Not too surprising coming from neocons of SP.

This is what actually did create a massive jihad and led to many killed including thousands of Americans:

Abu Ghraib photos Obama censoring "show rape", sexual torture of men, women, children

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260288


Did you watch the South Park Abu Ghraib episode?

[specsaregood]

So your issue is with the artist rather than the people that are threatening her with death?

Of course that isn't what she is saying, but you probably already knew that.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Holocaust_Cartoon_Competition
How many people died because of this? Did any of these people in France, Brazil, Italy etc... have to go into hiding?

Evidently you never learned the lesson that: 2wrongs != a right.

[MikeStanart]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.

Yes, we should lead by example and respect other people's religion. However, anyone who would harm another person because they used their 1st ammendment rights is dispicable, I don't care what religion you practice.

[ClayTrainor]

It probably did but its mostly a deflection. Not too surprising coming from neocons of SP.

lol, wut? Did you just call South Parks creators neo-cons?

http://reason.com/archives/2006/12/05/south-park-libertarians

[dean.engelhardt]

But they want to kill us!

We should make them angry as fuck!

Let me guess .... you are not a bee keeper?

[eOs]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.

Nah, if they can't handle freedom of speech then they don't belong in civilized society. You've got extremists calling for people's deaths because they speak against Islam and it's somehow the guy's fault that's practicing his 1st ammendment rights. Makes perfect sense.

[Liberty Star]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Holocaust_Cartoon_Competition



How many people died because of this? Did any of these people in France, Brazil, Italy etc... have to go into hiding?

So you are opposed to Euopean artist who denied holocuast and was sent prison?

South Park did a whole episode on his free speech rights.

[Bman]

So your issue is with the artist rather than the people that are threatening her with death?


I agree. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but draw an image of Mohammed and I shall kill you?

This may be a case of two wrongs don't make a right, but a drawing is hardly the offense of murder, or even the threat.

Part of a free society is that others don't have to respect anothers wishes in certain aspects of life, and what youn draw and publish is one of them.

[Liberty Star]

lol, wut? Did you just call South Parks creators neo-cons?

http://reason.com/archives/2006/12/05/south-park-libertarians

Yes I did. Just because a neocon claims to be something else does not make them so.

Can you produce any news link where they opposed revenge play of Iraq? Or did any episode on racism motivated violence against innocent in Iraq?

Then I would buy that "libertarian" claim.

[Bman]

lol, wut? Did you just call South Parks creators neo-cons?

http://reason.com/archives/2006/12/05/south-park-libertarians

lol. No shit.


It probably did but its mostly a deflection. Not too surprising coming from neocons of SP.

YouTube - You keep using that word. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk)

[Andrew-Austin]

I think it is selfish and ignorant to purposely upset a group of people because you don't agree with their religious beliefs. People who don't believe in Islam should show some respect and just not draw it. Just like you'd want them to show the same respect and not burn the flag or spit on a cross or something. It's best to lead by example and respect people's religions.


<<<<<<< Am I trying to upset them? I'd rather they didn't get upset at all. I just want them to get used to the fact that some people don't think highly of their little superstition at all, and they have the freedom to hold such thoughts, and to express such thoughts, despite how much many threats or outbursts they produce.

Do they respect others by threatening and intimidating them? Hell no. Their beliefs don't deserve respect [which could not be given even if I wanted to, respect can only be earned], and their attitude towards people who feel differently does not deserve respect.

I may not be a Christian or an adherent of any other religion, but I can at least respect most people who are because they are actually able to understand freedom of speech/expression and the inevitable fact of differences in opinion without going apeshit about it.



It probably did but its mostly a deflection. Not too surprising coming from neocons of SP.

This is what actually did create a massive jihad and led to many killed including thousands of Americans:

Abu Ghraib photos Obama censoring "show rape", sexual torture of men, women, children

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260288


Did you watch the South Park Abu Ghraib episode?

I don't remember that episode but I know for a fact the South Park guys are not neocons. If all you have is one episode that might imply they are, that is not near enough to contradict all the evidence that they are differently libertarian leaning.

Do you remember back in 2005 the response of the Islamic world to a couple harmless depictions of Muhammad in that Danish newspaper? It was quite insane, to the degree it shouldn't be downplayed.

[Liberty Star]

<<<<<<< Am I trying to upset them? I'd rather they didn't get upset at all. ...

Here is why I find your reasoning problematic.

If there was no war violence going on and no neocon war agendas on the horizon, the point about impulse to do something that one could face some risk for would be valid and thrill of making lot of people irritated could be compelling reason.

But in preseent situation, there is widespread real anger among muslim populations as a result of many innocent killed in Iraq revenge attack. So unless someone first draws cartoon of a blistered Iraqi children and then breaks their holy taboos, it would appear to be a racism play and an attempt to conflate deep widespread anger from racist policies with few extremists jihad anger about religious taboos. That equates to propagating neoconish and racist agenda in the name of free speech.

[ClayTrainor]

Yes I did. Just because a neocon claims to be something else does not make them so.

Just because some guy on a forum claims that they're neo-cons doesn't make it so.

Their content speaks for itself. They make fun of both sides of the left vs right paradigm. i.e. Team America made a complete mockery the American Foreign policy and Police state as well as Liberal Hollywood. In the south park episode on voting they candidates were "A Douche" and a "Turd Sandwich". I could go on and on...



Can you produce any news link where they opposed revenge play of Iraq? Or did any episode on racism motivated violence against innocent in Iraq?

Because they didn't do a particular episode based on a particular event, you are willing to label them as neo-cons?

The point of their show is to be funny and push the limits of free speech, not to take sides in the political arena. However, if you take a look at what they mock on a regular basis, you would know that they don't have much respect for the whole left vs right paradigm.



Then I would buy that "libertarian" claim.
Find me evidence that they support neo-con policies, and maybe I'll buy that "Neo-con" claim.

[Brian4Liberty]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/image.php?u=8774&dateline=1272081712 <<<<<<< Am I trying to upset them?

"You just made the list Buddy..."

YouTube - Stripes - Don't Call Me Francis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM)

[Liberty Star]

Just because some guy on a forum claims that their neo-cons doesn't make it so.

Their content speaks for itself. They make fun of both sides of the left vs right paradigm. i.e. Team America made a complete mockery the American Police state as well as Liberal Hollywood. In the south park episode on voting they candidates were "A Douche" and a "Turd Sandwich". I could go on and on...



Because they didn't do a particular episode based on a particular event, you are willing to label them as neo-cons?

The point of their show is to be funny, not to make political points. However, if you take a look at what they mock on a regular basis, you would know that they don't have much respect for the whole left vs right paradigm.


Find me evidence that they support neo-con policies, and maybe I'll buy that "Neo-con" claim.


Just writing funny or liking sexual orgies/porn or breaking taboos or not beliving in a religion does not make anyone "libertarian". There is a prerequisite and it is the belief that liberties of all people of all races have to be respected.

Maybe SP writers are not racists, but how would anyone explain them not using the comedic talent to poke fun at those who were destroying liberties at our expense but making time to attempt to conflate widespread muslim anger about revenge policies with "jiahdi anger" of some extremists. Have SP writers gone in hiding? So mayne this violent jihadi anger over taboos stuff is greatly exaggerated and pushed purposefully.

[fedup100]

But they want to kill us!

We should make them angry as fuck!

This^

Instead of do not draw mo, do not allow mo's followers to live in our beautiful country. They need to go back to there shit sand holes and practice their religion of peace there where it is safe to be an ignorant dark ages savage.

They are not now nor will they ever be compatible with a christian nation. The movie "300" will be a rerun in our own back yards if we don't wake up pdq!

Are we as americans really this ignorant and gullible? We are allowing these tyrants in filthy robes to use our freedoms to enslave us using the lie of freedom of religion and it isn't even a religion!! Muslim is a governmental system of tyranny using a so called religion to brainwash their children to madness and murder all the days of their lives.

There is NO radical muslims, ALL muslims are radical.

We imprison 1/2 of all american black males justifiably and then allow the black muslims to 'turn" them while in prison.

Your wrong headed and misguided lie of freedom of religion will kill all of us but not before all of our women wear a burka.

[Mini-Me]

You know, I've been through many stages in my life politically...neocon, liberal, liberaltarian, libertarian...but ever since the original Danish turban-bomb cartoon, I have always been consistent about standing in support of controversial authors. Obviously, the cartoons aren't representative of most Muslims, but the violent reactions and demonstrations against them do nothing but validate their authors' points of view.

I am firmly against aggressive wars, foreign intervention, irrational Islamophobia, and the "war of civilizations" mentality that neocons have. I'm with everyone else here, in the camp of people that are about as far from neocons as you can get. Regardless of foreign policy though, it is totally absurd that people have to cower in fear over being "insensitive" to someone's religion. It is completely ridiculous that people in western societies are expected to censor themselves [or be censored] for fear of enraging radical Muslims. That sheepish and acquiescent attitude offends me, because it is an affront to the idea of free speech.

Just as I have no reason to offend moderate Christians, I have no reason to offend moderate Muslims. I generally try to be respectful, just because I believe people deserve respect...but when it comes down to it, I also believe people have the right to offend whoever the hell they want, and I will stand up for them when they are threatened. I don't like unnecessarily insulting anyone, but when it comes down to it, the theocratic crazies in particular simply demand to be insulted. Seriously, any person who becomes that murderously enraged over cartoons and drawings deserves to be inundated with them, day in and day out.

In a way, I'm with South Park here: In a situation like this, I believe that it's healthy to encourage more people to be offensive, simply to take the stand that fear and intimidation are not welcome in a free society. I love Andrew-Austin's avatar, and I love people who "blasphemously" draw Muhammed, because they normalize free, unguarded speech. People should not be made to walk on eggshells. Could this cause blowback? Certainly...it's practically begging for blowback. What are the alternatives, though? The fact that individual artists are actually made to fear for their lives and go into hiding tells me that we have let them become easy, isolated targets for far too long.

[ClayTrainor]

Just writing funny or liking sexual orgies or breaking taboos or not beliving in a religion does not make anyone "libertarian". There is a prerequisite ti have a belief about respecting liberties for all people of all races.


I am more interested in refuting your neo-con claim, not claiming they are libertarians. I don't speak for them.



Maybe SP writers are not racists, but how would anyone explain them not using the comedic talent to poke fun at those who were destroying liberties at our expense but making time to attempt to conflate widespread muslim anger about revenge policies with "jiahdi anger" of some extremists.

Are you kidding??? This is the reason you think they're neo-cons? They've been mocking "those who were destroying liberties at our expense" for years!!!

Have you seen Team America???? What/who do you think they are mocking in the opening scene???

YouTube - Team America World Police Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce8CgJRkr_I)

They showed Hans Blixx getting eaten by sharks, FFS! How is that not poking fun at "those".

YouTube - Kim Jong Il in Team America - Hans Blix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM)

In the Obama Vs Mccain episode of south park, they basically mocked McCain, Obama and Palin with a plot about how they are just a bunch of high-end criminals. I could go on, and on, and on and on.



Have SP writers gone in hiding? So mayne this violent jihadi anger over taboos stuff is greatly exaggerated and pushed purposefully.

Pure speculation. Your neo-con claim was absurd and unsupported

[Liberty Star]

..

In a way, I'm with South Park here: In a situation like this, I believe that it's healthy to encourage more people to be offensive, simply to take the stand that fear and intimidation are not welcome in a free society. ...

Interesting.

Are they welcome in societies like those in Iraq?

[FrankRep]

'Draw Muhammad' Cartoonist Goes Into Hiding at FBI's Insistence After Assassination Threat (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/16/draw-muhammad-cartoonist-goes-hiding/?test=latestnews)

Fox News
September 16, 2010

[Mini-Me]

Interesting.

Are they welcome in societies like those in Iraq?

I don't know, but it's not really up to us to decide. It's up to Iraqis to decide how they want to live...or at least, it should be up to them, and it would be if only the US got the hell out of their business. Of course, the whole concept of Iraq as a unified country is kind of silly, since there are so many different cultures there (you have the Shiites, the Sunnis, the ethnic Kurds, etc.), and it's really the US's fault that they were wrapped in a single package. I'd like to see liberty thrive everywhere, but there's no way to force that.

[Liberty Star]

Was it realted to this guy?

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/blog/andie531/jewish-muslim-extremist-zachary-chesser-arrested

[Ekrub]

You know, I've been through many stages in my life politically...neocon, liberal, liberaltarian, libertarian...but ever since the original Danish turban-bomb cartoon, I have always been consistent about standing in support of controversial authors. Obviously, the cartoons aren't representative of most Muslims, but the violent reactions and demonstrations against them do nothing but validate their authors' points of view.

I am firmly against aggressive wars, foreign intervention, irrational Islamophobia, and the "war of civilizations" mentality that neocons have. I'm with everyone else here, in the camp of people that are about as far from neocons as you can get. Regardless of foreign policy though, it is totally absurd that people have to cower in fear over being "insensitive" to someone's religion. It is completely ridiculous that people in western societies are expected to censor themselves [or be censored] for fear of enraging radical Muslims. That sheepish and acquiescent attitude offends me, because it is an affront to the idea of free speech.

Just as I have no reason to offend moderate Christians, I have no reason to offend moderate Muslims. I generally try to be respectful, just because I believe people deserve respect...but when it comes down to it, I also believe people have the right to offend whoever the hell they want, and I will stand up for them when they are threatened. I don't like unnecessarily insulting anyone, but when it comes down to it, the theocratic crazies in particular simply demand to be insulted. Seriously, any person who becomes that murderously enraged over cartoons and drawings deserves to be inundated with them, day in and day out.

In a way, I'm with South Park here: In a situation like this, I believe that it's healthy to encourage more people to be offensive, simply to take the stand that fear and intimidation are not welcome in a free society. I love Andrew-Austin's avatar, and I love people who "blasphemously" draw Muhammed, because they normalize free, unguarded speech. People should not be made to walk on eggshells. Could this cause blowback? Certainly...it's practically begging for blowback. What are the alternatives, though? The fact that individual artists are actually made to fear for their lives and go into hiding tells me that we have let them become easy, isolated targets for far too long.

Great post.

[Stary Hickory]

God I love the hypocrisy here. The same people saying that anyone who thought the Mosque at ground zero was and is a horrible thing was an Islamaphobe are now saying we must respect religious beliefs and customs.

Really? Many of the same folks who regularly deride Christians. If it's good for one religion it's good for them all. If no respect is to be afforded Christians then none should be afforded for believers of Islam as well.

[Liberty Star]

If this is all a drama:

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/blog/andie531/jewish-muslim-extremist-zachary-chesser-arrested

What is the objectibe?

[oyarde]

But we need a War with Iran....

Before we worry about anything in Persia , we will probably be trying to figure out how to retaliate to terror attacks from Somalia and Algiers .

[JoshLowry]

But they want to kill us!

We should make them angry as fuck!
This^

Instead of do not draw mo, do not allow mo's followers to live in our beautiful country. They need to go back to there shit sand holes and practice their religion of peace there where it is safe to be an ignorant dark ages savage.

They are not now nor will they ever be compatible with a christian nation. The movie "300" will be a rerun in our own back yards if we don't wake up pdq!

Are we as americans really this ignorant and gullible? We are allowing these tyrants in filthy robes to use our freedoms to enslave us using the lie of freedom of religion and it isn't even a religion!! Muslim is a governmental system of tyranny using a so called religion to brainwash their children to madness and murder all the days of their lives.

There is NO radical muslims, ALL muslims are radical.

We imprison 1/2 of all american black males justifiably and then allow the black muslims to 'turn" them while in prison.

Your wrong headed and misguided lie of freedom of religion will kill all of us but not before all of our women wear a burka.

Yea, I was just kidding... :o

There are radicals in every large cross section of people. It's not fair to paint any group as blood thirsty tyrants based on the actions of a few enraged individuals who may have been seeking personal revenge.

[Natalie]

Having an "Everybody draw Muhammed Day" accomplishes as much as an "Everybody shout the N word at the top of our lungs day." I support free speech and do not think it should be illegal, but it is pointless and disrespectful.

[Liberty Star]

Yea, I was just kidding... :o

There are radicals in every large cross section of people. It's not fair to paint any group as blood thirsty tyrants based on the actions of a few enraged individuals who may have been seeking personal revenge.


Would you support drawing a swastika?

I posted a simple question to find out moderators views but suddenly it's in HT with no answer to question about using it as an avatar on RP forums.

[TNforPaul45]

I heard from a very reputable source that They hate us because We're Free.

I think it was on the Internet.

That means its ultra-true.

[libertybrewcity]

like this?
http://libertypundits.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/muhammad-bomb.jpg

[Liberty Star]

Or like this:

http://fideidefensor.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/iraqi-children.jpg

http://12for12k.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/iraq-war-child.jpg

[Liberty Star]

Or the most racist of all:

http://www.iraqwar.co.uk/kimphuc2.jpg

[Depressed Liberator]

Why does FrankRep post so many anti-Islam links?

[LibertyVox]

Why does FrankRep post so many anti-Islam links?

He would be a super hit on literally any other forum. Hating Islam and muslims is quite the fashion nowadays.
Folks here though-- I dare hope-- don't take his link bombing that seriously. Here, with that kind of bias he tends to dig his own hole. Still though, his link bombing comes across as trolling sometimes.

[Liberty Star]

Why does FrankRep post so many anti-Islam links?

To be fair, FrankRep posts "anti Israel" threads too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223690&highlight=organ

[LibertyVox]

To be fair, FrankRep posts "anti Israel" threads too:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=223690&highlight=organ

Posting intermittent threads about a brutal state in light of the fact that it has a large away over our country's foreign policy and domestic culture is the same as continual and highly skewed and biased link bombing about an entire religion and people?