Worst President Ever?

[jmhudak17]

Who do you think it is? I'm gonna say Woodrow Wilson, with FDR at a close second.

[BamaFanNKy]

Who do you think it is? I'm gonna say Woodrow Wilson, with FDR at a close second.

1. Wilson
2. Bush/Obama (same president)
3. Franklin Pierce
4. FDR
5. Teddy Roosevelt

[Danke]

Ford.


Haven't there been polls on this many times before?

[ChaosControl]

Wilson or FDR.

[Travlyr]

President Zero

[Sola_Fide]

1. Lincoln

2. Wilson

3. Roosevelt

[TexanRudeBoy]

1. Lincoln



Number one by a mile.

[acptulsa]

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

Well, maybe. As a libertarian I have some respect for U.S. Grant, even if the railroad land grants got way out of control under him. But I can't imagine a Plains Indian ever giving him the time of day...

[puppetmaster]

the CIA ones.......

[acptulsa]

the CIA ones.......

All but three of the last sixty-plus years? Something to be said for that point of view.

[Elwar]

John Hanson

[Vessol]

Wilson, FDR, T. Roosevelt.

[Mini-Me]

Along with Wilson and pals, I think Saddam Hussein is probably up there.

Oh, wait, you meant the worst US President, didn't you? ;)

[Fozz]

Worst president: Definitely Woodrow Wilson.

2. FDR

3. Truman

[Justinjj1]

Reagan or LBJ

[Fozz]

Reagan or LBJ
Why Reagan?

How was he worse than FDR, Truman, Woodrow Wilson, or multitudes of other statists?

[erowe1]

Why Reagan?

How was he worse than FDR, Truman, Woodrow Wilson, or multitudes of other statists?

I don't buy it either. But there was some banter here awhile back about a blog ranking of the presidents that put him near the bottom. To get an idea how a libertarian might do that, you might give it a gander. I think it was this:
http://sourcedmock.blogspot.com/2009/12/libertarian-ranking-of-united-states.html

[Galileo Galilei]

Wilson by far. Then FDR. The best president, by far, was James Madison, who followed the Constitution during a time of war. What Madison set up was damaged by Lincoln, torn down by Wilson, and stepped upon by FDR.

[Kludge]

Washington's the most disappointing. Fights to free a country of oppressive rule - a war fought with significant roots in tax evasion - then goes on to create an oppressive tax on whiskey (unforgivable in itself) and then sends military in to crush the rebellions.

Otherwise, the worst president is always the current president.

[Stary Hickory]

1. Lincoln

2. Wilson

3. Roosevelt

EXACTLY my picks....hard to think of more damaging presidents.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I think the most damaging president is still to come

a hybrid of bush/obama with more drive towards "progress".

[Justinjj1]

Why Reagan?

How was he worse than FDR, Truman, Woodrow Wilson, or multitudes of other statists?

Reagan seems to get a pass for all of the terrible things he did as a president. He was a great speaker who preached limited government but did the exact opposite. That is why I despise him more so than FDR, Truman, and Wilson, because the American people knew basically what they were getting with those people. Reagan was a sell-out to the conservative movement and helped usher in the neoconservatives which basically controlled his administration. During his years in office, the U.S. became much more nationalistic and militaristic. He escalated the Cold War, became much more aggressive about the War on Drugs, let the CIA have free reign to terrorize foreign countries, vastly increased the national debt (much more than FDR or Truman), helped "save" Social Security by raising taxes, etc.


I could go on and on, but here is a great article that sums it up a lot better than I can. http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html

Basically Reagan was the old bait-and-switch, who was used to co-opt and alter the direction of the growing anti-government movement. I hold him in the same regard as I do Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin today.

[Fozz]

Reagan seems to get a pass for all of the terrible things he did as a president. He was a great speaker who preached limited government but did the exact opposite. That is why I despise him more so than FDR, Truman, and Wilson, because the American people knew basically what they were getting with those people. Reagan was a sell-out to the conservative movement and helped usher in the neoconservatives which basically controlled his administration. During his years in office, the U.S. became much more nationalistic and militaristic. He escalated the Cold War, became much more aggressive about the War on Drugs, let the CIA have free reign to terrorize foreign countries, vastly increased the national debt (much more than FDR or Truman), helped "save" Social Security by raising taxes, etc.

I could go on and on, but here is a great article that sums it up a lot better than I can. http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html

Basically Reagan was the old bait-and-switch, who was used to co-opt and alter the direction of the growing anti-government movement. I hold him in the same regard as I do Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin today.

Reagan did do some bad things as president, but you are exaggerating it, and some of it wasn't his fault.

And FDR and Wilson actually preached small government when they first ran for president. Wilson was all about cutting tariffs, and FDR talked about balanced budgets and one of his campaign men even criticized Hoover for bringing the US towards socialism.

Reagan was unfortunately influenced by neocons, but Reagan himself was not a neocon, and he did not always listen to them. This Southern Avenger video sums it up well.
YouTube - SA@TAC - Was Reagan the Ultimate Hawk? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZICDg0FOUI)

The CIA has been terrorizing countries before Reagan, and during his presidency, he tried to help groups who he thought were enemies of Communism. I don't like it, but I suppose it is preferable to an all out war.

The Drug war was definitely one of his more appalling legacies, and the debt was also a serious problem, though you have to remember that Democrats controlled Congress when he was president. They didn't want to cut spending after his tax cuts, so they had a big hand in this.

As for Rothbard's long article, you have to remember that Rothbard hated nearly every president and criticized almost all of them with vitriolic rhetoric. Secondly, it was written in 1989, right after he left office, and since then, a lot of good things have happened that can be credited to Reagan, and libertarians have improved their view of Reagan.

Therefore, many good libertarians/paleocons like Ron Paul, Justin Raimondo, and Paul Craig Roberts have a very positive view of Reagan, even though the latter two are VERY anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-neocon, and even anti-Israel.

[Galileo Galilei]

Washington's the most disappointing. Fights to free a country of oppressive rule - a war fought with significant roots in tax evasion - then goes on to create an oppressive tax on whiskey (unforgivable in itself) and then sends military in to crush the rebellions.

Otherwise, the worst president is always the current president.

Yeah, he only turned down an offer of kingship or military dictator in the Newburgh conspiracy of March, 1783. Almost all other revolutions in history end up in a military dictatorship or something worse. Washington felt that the measures he took were necessary to prevent a military state from forming, with someone else becoming dictator, or competing dictators in various states. I will go along with George Washington rather than a 21st century revisionist. You should read up on the Founding Fathers.

[awake]

The worst President hasn't been elected yet...

[wormyguy]

Presidents I would characterize as "horrible":

Obama
Bush
Nixon
Johnson
Kennedy
F. Roosevelt
Hoover
Wilson
T. Roosevelt

No previous President even approaches these guys in terms of horribleness. I can't decide who is the most horrible. Wilson is probably the worst personally, and FDR probably had the worst long-term impact.

[Mini-Me]

Otherwise, the worst president is always the current president.

Heh...

YouTube - The Peter Gibbons Syndrome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko3CW1pZQlI)

[erowe1]

Presidents I would characterize as "horrible":

Obama
Bush
Nixon
Johnson
Kennedy
F. Roosevelt
Hoover
Wilson
T. Roosevelt

No previous President even approaches these guys in terms of horribleness. I can't decide who is the most horrible. Wilson is probably the worst personally, and FDR probably had the worst long-term impact.

Those are all bad. But what is it about Nixon, Hoover, and Kennedy in particular that makes you say no one outside that short list approaches them in horribleness? Their bad policies strike me as the simple run-of-the mill tyranny we've come to expect from all US presidents.

[Kludge]

Yeah, he only turned down an offer of kingship or military dictator in the Newburgh conspiracy of March, 1783. Almost all other revolutions in history end up in a military dictatorship or something worse. Washington felt that the measures he took were necessary to prevent a military state from forming, with someone else becoming dictator, or competing dictators in various states. I will go along with George Washington rather than a 21st century revisionist. You should read up on the Founding Fathers.

I'd probably talk about Washington nonstop if he did go Napoleon. He didn't, but I believe he did betrayed the ideals I got out of the revolution, and I find that to be extremely disappointing. I expect it out of our modern presidents, and I don't really feel any ill will toward them for doing what so many electors desire of them. I don't view modern presidents as oppressive as I view modern voters as repressive -- I have trouble blaming representatives for representing.

Perhaps I feel more disappointment because I formerly idolized the Founders as leaders in libertarian-conservative thought and then slowly had those beliefs destroyed after coming to realize their awful views/actions on slavery, portraying Indians as we now portray "Terrorists," seeking to destroy their culture (eventually their lives) and assimilate them, and how Washington dealt with (after creating, in part) the Whiskey Rebellion.

[wormyguy]

Those are all bad. But what is it about Nixon, Hoover, and Kennedy in particular that makes you say no one outside that short list approaches them in horribleness? Their bad policies strike me as the simple run-of-the mill tyranny we've come to expect from all US presidents.

Hoover caused the Great Depression due to his idiotic socialism, although he was a good enough person. Kennedy and Nixon were pretty bad just policy-wise, but they were absolutely horrible people, so they get bumped up onto the list.

[RforRevolution]

Worst presidents ever, imo? The ones who are ranked the best on "official historical rankings" are typically the worst. Usually, the higher the death toll under a president the better his ranking in official polls.

Best presidents ever, imo? The ones who are ranked the worst on "official historical rankings" are typically the best. The ones who leave people alone are always ranked the "worst."

This is one of the best indicators that "official" history is complete BS.

[oyarde]

I think the most damaging president is still to come

a hybrid of bush/obama with more drive towards "progress".

I cannot take anymore of that evil "progress " .

[oyarde]

Obama ( money spent ) , Wilson and Johnson brought us the UN and medicare . In the future these three will have cost more than all the others combined.

[Brian4Liberty]

Johnson - Great Society.

[Minuteman2012]

1.Wilson
2. Roosevelt
3. Lincoln
4. Obama
5. Bush Jr.

[Galileo Galilei]

In my lifetime, the worst president was Bush 41. The drug war was worse than the war on terror.

[cindy25]

worst by far FDR
1) peacetime draft
2) internment of Japanese
3) Social security
4) proposal to draft women (passed house before he died)
5) personally immoral (died with mistress)
6) confiscation of gold

contenders
Truman -recognized Israel
Wilson- arrests during WWI; draft

LBJ
Medicare
Medicaid
ended student deferments

Obama and Bush 41 spending

[oyarde]

worst by far FDR
1) peacetime draft
2) internment of Japanese
3) Social security
4) proposal to draft women (passed house before he died)
5) personally immoral (died with mistress)
6) confiscation of gold

contenders
Truman -recognized Israel
Wilson- arrests during WWI; draft

LBJ
Medicare
Medicaid
ended student deferments

Obama and Bush 41 spending

I think you have it .

[Deft9]

This is like a game of pick the smelliest piece of shit.

[Imaginos]

Wilson.

[oyarde]

Wilson.

That guy was evil . Reminds me of the current one .

[low preference guy]

That guy was evil . Reminds me of the current one .

Nah, Wilson was way smarter. Obama is evil, but not as smart.

[Athan]

Who do you think it is? I'm gonna say Woodrow Wilson, with FDR at a close second.

Wilson
FDR
Dubbya
Nixon

I can't decide.

[oyarde]

That guy was evil . Reminds me of the current one .

True. I still say the three costliest economic terrorist presidents are Obama,Wilson and Johnson . Somebody want to total up what Medicare and Medicaid have cost since inception ? Then add Obamas spending to that .

[Andrew Ryan]

Without a doubt FDR.

[Humanae Libertas]

Here's my list...

1. Woodrow Wilson - Federal Reserve, Revenue Act of 1913, Harrison Narcotics Tax Act, World War I, Racial Segregation in Federal agencies, League of Nations, and FBI.

2. Franklin D. Roosevelt - New Deal, Social Security, Japanese internment camps, Pearl Harbor/World War II, United Nations.

3. Harry Truman - CIA, Atomic Bomb, Cold War, NATO, Truman Doctrine, Berlin Airlift, Korean War.

4. George W. Bush - PATRIOT ACT, Homeland Security, TSA, No Child Left Behind, War on Terror, 9/11, Medicare expansion, Clear Skies Act of 2003.

5. Abraham Lincoln - Civil War, Slavery, Revenue Act of 1862.

6. Lyndon Johnson - Medicare/Medicaid, Civil Rights Act, War on Poverty, Vietnam War, Higher Education Act of 1965, Gun Control Act of 1968.

[lucius]

Best President--Polk hands down...

Worst President--Grant, but he was dying of throat cancer, he had vices...

[cindy25]

Wilson
FDR
Dubbya
Nixon

I can't decide.

Nixon should not be on this list; he ended the draft, and that alone should exempt him

[oyarde]

Nixon should not be on this list; he ended the draft, and that alone should exempt him

If I make a short list and keep it to damage done W. would not even make the list and Nixon would not except for one reason.

[paulitics]

FDR
Teddie Roosevelt
Truman
Dubya
LBJ
Clinton
Reagan



and of course Woodrow is the biggest traitor.

[Anti Federalist]

Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010
1. Lincoln

2. Wilson

3. Roosevelt

EXACTLY my picks....hard to think of more damaging presidents.

Ditto that, mine as well.

[Pericles]

Ditto that, mine as well.
I concur.

[anaconda]

1. Wilson
2. Bush/Obama (same president)
3. Franklin Pierce
4. FDR
5. Teddy Roosevelt

Not Lincoln?

[goopc]

I guess most of you haven't read about the real Lincoln. He imprisoned tens of thousands of political dissenters, denied postal service to anti-war newspapers, effectively ended federalism/secession/nullification, suspended habeas corpus (used the military to arrest people), and he even exiled the leading anti-war Democrat from the Union.


Lincoln's Tariff War (http://mises.org/media/1699)
Abraham Lincoln and the Triumph of Mercantilism in America (http://mises.org/media/1701)
Lincoln vs. the Constitution (http://mises.org/media/1703)


Especially check out the third talk.

[acptulsa]

If I make a short list and keep it to damage done W. would not even make the list and Nixon would not except for one reason.

Oh, Dubya would be high indeed on my list. Or, at least, Cheney would.

Otherwise, word. There has been much discussion in the thread as to whether Reagan, the guy who sold himself as more than a little libertarian, tried to live up to that or was purposely setting himself up as the 'bait and switch' candidate. Well, folks, Nixon ran as a law-and-order candidate. This, my friends, was no accidental misrepresentation of his own kind self.


Worst presidents ever, imo? The ones who are ranked the best on "official historical rankings" are typically the worst. Usually, the higher the death toll under a president the better his ranking in official polls.

Best presidents ever, imo? The ones who are ranked the worst on "official historical rankings" are typically the best. The ones who leave people alone are always ranked the "worst."

This is one of the best indicators that "official" history is complete BS.

Absolutely. Just ask someone in charge of making 'official' histories whether Coolidge was any good or not. Then ask one of us.

[erowe1]

I guess most of you haven't read about the real Lincoln. He imprisoned tens of thousands of political dissenters, denied postal service to anti-war newspapers, effectively ended federalism/secession/nullification, suspended habeas corpus (used the military to arrest people), and he even exiled the leading anti-war Democrat from the Union.


Lincoln's Tariff War (http://mises.org/media/1699)
Abraham Lincoln and the Triumph of Mercantilism in America (http://mises.org/media/1701)
Lincoln vs. the Constitution (http://mises.org/media/1703)


Especially check out the third talk.

I guess you haven't read most of the posts in this thread.

[Matt Collins]

Mike Church and Dr. Kevin Gutzman discuss whether or not George Washington's birthday is worth celebrating:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuNl8iepOOs

[KurtBoyer25L]

I read a novel called "The Winds of War" by Herman Wouk (who wrote The Caine Mutiny), where the idea is floated (albeit by a fictional German general) that the most fundamental difference between FDR and Hitler (or Stalin or Mussolini) is that his side won, and so the history books recorded that he was a good guy. I tend to agree with that. But I think Wilson ties for the worst ever after hearing y'all give the facts on him.

[ElCount]

How the hell have only a couple of people mentioned Truman? And one person mentioned Truman for recognizing Israel? How about authorizing the use of atomic weapons?

[Erentheca]

I read a novel called "The Winds of War" by Herman Wouk (who wrote The Caine Mutiny), where the idea is floated (albeit by a fictional German general) that the most fundamental difference between FDR and Hitler (or Stalin or Mussolini) is that his side won, and so the history books recorded that he was a good guy. I tend to agree with that. But I think Wilson ties for the worst ever after hearing y'all give the facts on him.

Indirectly, some of the seeds of the Vietnam War were sown by Wilson.

[Galileo Galilei]

Mike Church and Dr. Kevin Gutzman discuss whether or not George Washington's birthday is worth celebrating:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuNl8iepOOs

George Washington is one of the truly remarkable human beings in all of human history. I just read a book on the Mexican revolution, one of the French revolution, and a third on the revolutions in South America, all which occurred in short proximity to the American Revolution. The difference between Washington and everyone else, is, frankly, stark. In all the other revolutions you had butcher after butcher taking over then another butcher taking over the previous butcher, etc.

In Mexico in particular, you started with Hidalgo and Allende who were at each others throats flipping sides, then Morales, then Mina, then Iturbide, then Santa Ana, and I missed a whole bunch. We had one Benedict Arnold, the Mexicans had many dozens. You also had the various castes of society constantly changing sides which one group pillaging the others and vie-versa.

If you haven't read a full book on the Mexican Revolution, you can't get the full flavor of what it was like and appreciate the greatness of George Washington.

[goldencane]

Wilson and FDR are the worst by far, for reasons already explained.

A lot of libertarians like to say Lincoln was the worst by far, but I think it is just the "popular" pick because he is considered by the masses to be the best and there is that whole shock factor/go against the grain mentality. People choose to overlook one big thing. He obviously did a lot of bad things that have been mentioned here, but he did play a big role in the ultimate abolition of slavery. His reasons for doing so may not have been the right ones and his methods may not have been close to the best, but slavery is the greatest atrocity toward liberty. He did a lot of anti-liberty things, but he did make progress when it came to abolishing slavery. Many other presidents have done everything that goes against liberty and nothing that improves liberty. Lincoln at least did something that improved liberty.

[CaliforniaMom]

Is there any site where I can read about the real Lincoln? The sites listed on the previous page were audio, not text.
I had the typical public school education, and of course my school never said a negative word about Lincoln. So I'm curious why so many regard him as the worst.
Can anyone recommend a good history book that covers the facts that are left out of most regular history books?

[MJU1983]

Wilson

You guys and gals already covered pretty much anything else that could be said. :)

[MJU1983]

Is there any site where I can read about the real Lincoln? The sites listed on the previous page were audio, not text.
I had the typical public school education, and of course my school never said a negative word about Lincoln. So I'm curious why so many regard him as the worst.
Can anyone recommend a good history book that covers the facts that are left out of most regular history books?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/lincoln-arch.html

You can also search here: http://mises.org/

This book by Judge Nap also touches on Lincoln: http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Government-Told-You-Deception/dp/1595552669


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPRc1pDPPSg

[Grievance]

An interesting book on this topic came out a few years ago by Ivan Eland called Recarving Rushmore where he ranks all of the presidents based on peace, prosperity, and liberty.

His Top 5:
John Tyler
Grover Cleveland
Martin Van Buren
Rutherford B. Hayes
Chester Arthur

His Bottom 5 (starting with the worst):
Woodrow Wilson
Harry Truman
William McKinley
James Polk
George W Bush

Lincoln and FDR are in the bottom 10 as well.

Here is a video of Ron Paul interviewing the author on Book TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTm5fwCD-0M

[CaptainAmerica]

Abraham Lincoln

1.Pretended to care about freedom of others while holding mass hangings of native americans
2.Suspended the U.S. Constitution and raised armies to be used on U.S. soil against the Insurrection Act of 1807
3.Lincoln imprisoned 13,000 political prisoners who criticized his policies
4.Lincoln made the first sanctions in U.S. history against the states which declared independence.
5.Lincoln pretended to advocate freedom of slaves while perpetuating the holding of slaves in northern states

[erowe1]

George Washington is one of the truly remarkable human beings in all of human history. I just read a book on the Mexican revolution, one of the French revolution, and a third on the revolutions in South America, all which occurred in short proximity to the American Revolution. The difference between Washington and everyone else, is, frankly, stark. In all the other revolutions you had butcher after butcher taking over then another butcher taking over the previous butcher, etc.

In Mexico in particular, you started with Hidalgo and Allende who were at each others throats flipping sides, then Morales, then Mina, then Iturbide, then Santa Ana, and I missed a whole bunch. We had one Benedict Arnold, the Mexicans had many dozens. You also had the various castes of society constantly changing sides which one group pillaging the others and vie-versa.

If you haven't read a full book on the Mexican Revolution, you can't get the full flavor of what it was like and appreciate the greatness of George Washington.

Is celebrating a politician for being less bad than he might have been anything like celebrating a tumor for being benign?

[Galileo Galilei]

Is celebrating a politician for being less bad than he might have been anything like celebrating a tumor for being benign?

celebrating the lack of death and destruction is a great thing.

[Grubb556]

In no particular order

Wilson - militarily aggresive
FDR - militarily aggresive
LBJ - militarily aggresive
Lincoln - militarily aggresive
Truman - militarily aggresive

[erowe1]

celebrating the lack of death and destruction is a great thing.

OK. I guess I just see not killing people as what you're supposed to do. I haven't killed anyone either.

[vita3]

Dubya & Cheney.

[123tim]

Worst President Ever?

The next one?
And then the one after that?


(If the good Dr. doesn't make it.)

[Galileo Galilei]

OK. I guess I just see not killing people as what you're supposed to do. I haven't killed anyone either.

self-defense? Heard of that?

[Ronpauljones]

What makes Lincoln or Teddy the worst president? (real question, I'm not defending them)

[Vessol]

Why Every President Sucked, in song form!

http://whyeverypresidentsucked.com/

[Athan]

1. Wilson
2. Nixon
3. FDR (Also known as DUR)
3. Dubbya
4. Obama

[MarcNY]

Gotta Wilson.
2. Andrew Johnson
3. Nixon
4. GW

[Tim Calhoun]

Wilson, FDR, and LBJ

Wilson - the IRS and the Fed.. enough said
FDR - made the Great Depression "Great"
LBJ - by far the worst. Everything he did was a disaster. From Vietnam to the War on Poverty.

[Rothbardian Girl]

1. Wilson (Federal Reserve, WWI, eugenicist, racist, etc)...
2. Just about every president of the 20th and 21st centuries
3. Lincoln, although I don't particularly have any strong dislike for the man like some here do.
4. Everyone else

There hasn't been one good president; all of them have mucked around in some fashion. I have a soft spot for Cleveland though, and it's not just because of his fabulous mustache. :D

[Cutlerzzz]

1: Wilson
2: Lincoln
3: FDR
4: Teddy Roosevelt(I wonder how many here have heard of the US Philippines War? Probably the ugliest foreign war in US history, and the government has erased it from most history books)
5: LBJ

[Zatch]

1. Lincoln


The great centralizer

[Bordillo]

Fdr