Chuck Baldwin: Why We Are Moving To Montana

[FrankRep]

Why We Are Moving To Montana (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=2236)


Chuck Baldwin (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/)
Sept. 15, 2010


By now, readers of this column should be aware of the decision my family and I made to leave the beautiful Gulf Coast beaches, and move to the majestic Rocky Mountains: the Flathead Valley of Montana, to be specific. Mind you, Pensacola, Florida, has been my wife’s and my home for 35 years. It is the place where each of our children was born and raised, and still resides today. Rest assured, each of my family is aware of the cold weather climate to which we are headed. We are also very cognizant of the extremely difficult economic circumstances that exist. The truth is, if we were basing this move on things such as “practicality,” or “job opportunity,” or “a place to retire,” we would either 1) stay where we are, or 2) move somewhere else (someplace warmer), because this move, in many ways, is impractical, financially challenging, and could bring personal discomfort to all of us during those harsh Montana winters. The fact is, none of that has any bearing on our decision to move.

I know unbelievers and skeptics have a hard time when I say this, but, we are moving to the Flathead Valley of Montana for the same reason we moved to Pensacola, Florida, 35 years ago: we know it is God’s perfect will for our lives. Period. Why else would we do it? Why would we leave the comfort and security of home, family, and friends? Why would we attempt such a major move in such an economically depressed housing and job market? Why would I walk away from the church that my wife and I started and have poured our hearts and souls into for over 35 years, and that took such very good care of us? On a human level, this move makes absolutely no sense. But as Christians, we are not supposed to live our lives on a purely human level, are we?

So, instead of moving south (like most every preacher you ever knew over the age of 50), I feel God moving me north (about 75-miles-south-of-the-Canadian-border kind of north!). And so does every man in my family. Count them: that’s 5 households and 17 people ranging in ages from 3 months to the upper 70s (I am 58).

I promise you, we have bathed this move in intense and prolonged prayer and meditation. This was not a quick decision. But why would God move us?

For one thing, it became very plain to me that my ministry was over in Pensacola. The brook had dried up, to borrow from the life of Elijah. And I’ve known too many pastors who allowed their personal affections for a prolonged ministry to obfuscate the clear revelation and reality that their ministries had ended and it was time to move on. And in every such instance, the longer they stayed, the more the ministry declined. I had vowed many years ago to not let that happen to my wonderful church family. They deserved God’s best, even if that meant my departure.

For another thing, my family and I are ardent patriots. To us, freedom and liberty are much more valuable and desirable than wealth and riches–or even comfort and security. And we believe God has been showing us that if there is a place left in America where true freedom has an opportunity to experience a rebirth, it is in the Mountain States of America’s great Northwest. I love the fact that Montana is often referred to as “The Last Best Place.” And as far as freedom and liberty are concerned, it just might be.

Now, we are not naïve. We realize that there are many Big-Government liberals and neocons in the Mountain States who will not be pleased to see us come. When compared to the rest of the country, however (and I’ve seen most all of it), I would dare say that there are more freedom lovers in the Mountain States (per capita and per square mile) than anywhere else in the country.

Since the release of my last two columns announcing our move to Montana, I have received more emails than over the last several months combined. And believe me, I’m talking about hundreds and even thousands of emails. I have received more than 200 emails just from people living in Montana, and 99% of them were enthusiastically supportive. I can assure you, the response that my family and I have received from Montanans has made us feel at home even before getting there.

Many Montanans are excited about the prospect of my starting a new ministry in the Flathead Valley, and once again being able to livestream my messages over the Internet. Others are excited about the prospect of us entering the freedom fight. But most seem excited about both!

Furthermore, it is our studied opinion that America is headed for an almost certain cataclysm. As Christians, we suspect that this cataclysm could include the judgment of God. As students of history, we believe that this cataclysm will most certainly include a fight between Big-Government globalists and freedom-loving, independent-minded patriots. I would even argue that this fight has already started. And as this battle escalates (and it will most assuredly escalate), only those states that are willing to stand and fight for their independence and freedom will survive–at least in a state of freedom. And we believe that God has already put the love of liberty deep into the hearts of the people of the Mountain States; and we further believe that God is already calling (and will continue to call) many other freedom lovers to those states. One thing is for sure: we know He called us!

We are not going to Montana to sunbathe (or even ski); we are not going to play games, or play politics; we are not going to “take it easy,” or “hide,” or hibernate. We are not going to “enjoy the climate.” We are going to fight! We are going to work! We are going to help the freedom-minded people of Montana make their stand for liberty! In many ways, the Mountain States just might become The Alamo of the twenty-first century, with, hopefully, much better results. But if not, I would rather die fighting for freedom with liberty-loving patriots by my side than be shuttled off to some FEMA camp after having been rejected and betrayed by soft-living, comfort-seeking, materialistic statists who simply “don’t get it” and have no desire to “get it,” which seems to be pretty much standard practice for a sizeable majority of people today–Christian and non-Christian–around most of the country.

The Mountain States are also attractive due to the distance separating them from the great regions of the country in which the tables are truly stacked against any growth and extension of the principles of federalism or limited government, namely, the Northeast, Southeast, and Southwest (with my apologies to freedomists in those areas). Big-city liberalism dominates most of the states in these regions. The federal government has invested billions of dollars and thousands of personnel establishing and oiling the Orwellian machine in these areas. There are exceptions, of course, but they are few and far between, and therefore, quite isolated should any kind of serious stand be required.

Add to the intrinsically oppressive nature of big-city liberalism and UN-sponsored globalism the out-of-control illegal immigration problem along the Southern Border and one has a recipe for disaster! And that is exactly what is coming: a disaster!

If I am correct in my analysis, and Montana (and surrounding states) really is in store for a FREEDOM RUSH, then it is certain that patriotic businessmen, laborers, tradesmen, professionals, clergymen, physicians, technicians, and people from virtually every walk of life will find themselves among the “gathering of eagles.” From an economic and spiritual perspective alone, the prospect of such a rush could be not only exciting, but also historic!

Therefore, let no more be said of hardship! Our Pilgrim forebears crossed the Atlantic Ocean without maps and with no one to greet them in their quest to find a land of liberty. Our Patriot forebears challenged the greatest military force in history (at that time) and stood on Lexington Green, Concord Bridge, and Bunker Hill to defend this land of liberty. And our Pioneer forebears traversed thousands of miles in covered wagons with no roads or bridges in their quest to carve a land of liberty out of the wilderness. Traveling 2,500 miles in trucks and cars across mostly an Interstate highway system, sleeping in hotels, and eating at restaurants seem like mighty puny sacrifices to make to find that land where this latter-day remnant can live and stand together.

Yes, I realize the real work will only begin once we have arrived. I completely understand that Montana is not the Garden of Eden and that the Serpent is already there, waiting for us. I expect a fight. And I know I speak for the men of my family when I say, Bring it on! Freedom and liberty, along with the Natural Law principles of federalism and independence, are worth fighting for. In fact, they are worth dying for. So, living or dying, we intend to circle the wagons around the State of Montana and fight to our dying breath for the right of that State to live free! And while we are at it, we believe God will let us help many good, freedom-loving people of Montana find true inner freedom that comes from Christ alone. After all, any true student of American history knows that revival and revolution go hand in hand.

To borrow from the Apostle Paul, “And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto [Montana], not knowing the things that shall befall me there.” (Acts 20:22) But I also have faith in another Biblical principle: that God opens doors that no man can shut (Rev. 3:8). And for the Baldwin family, that open door is the Flathead Valley of Montana. And no recession, or ridicule, or opposition, or false accusation, or cold and snow can shut that door. Montana, here we come!


SOURCE:
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=2236

[Fredom101]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

[pcosmar]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

If that is the case, this country was founded by crazy people.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

Or even earlier,

In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together into a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620.

Crazy,,
:rolleyes:

[Cowlesy]

If that is the case, this country was founded by crazy people.


Or even earlier,


Crazy,,
:rolleyes:

Clinically insane!

[Pennsylvania]

Chuck, you're willing to completely relocate your family across the country to another state and you chose...........Montana?

Wow, take that FSP, you statist scumbags!

[dean.engelhardt]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

He's probaly buying God a case of beer for helping him moving.

[DirtMcGirt]

Why not Free State Project?

[Cowlesy]

Why not Free State Project?

I don't think Chuck is a radical libertarian/anarchist/atheist --- not saying that all Free State Project people are by any stretch, but given Baldwin is a Pastor and ran on the Constitution Party line, I'd think Montana is better suited to him.

Can't blame him. Big Sky country is beautiful, and certainly not as balmy as Florida.

[FrankRep]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

:eek:

Ron Paul Endorses Chuck Baldwin for President
http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-23/ron-paul-endorses-chuck-baldwin-for-president/

[georgiaboy]

Pretty darned inspiring if you ask me. Good luck and Godspeed, Chuck!

[Daamien]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. Nothing against Chuck Baldwin personally, but it's rather odd that he wouldn't take any responsibility for the decision to move.

By the way, God wanted me to post this.

[Icymudpuppy]

Montana these days is more freedom loving than New Hampshire. The only thing NH has on MT is no seatbelt laws. MT has a lot more on NH.

[sevin]

I like Chuck Baldwin, but I never understood how pastors can relocate just because "God told them to." Unless you literally hear God's voice telling you to move, you're just interpreting all the "signs" the way you want to.

[KCIndy]

Montana these days is more freedom loving than New Hampshire. The only thing NH has on MT is no seatbelt laws. MT has a lot more on NH.


Agreed.

On top of that, there's the simple matter of population density. Reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like Baldwin is expecting some sort of SHTF scenario. Speaking as someone who has been to New Hampshire and all up and down the East Coast, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the New England states in the event of a true governmental/financial collapse.

[JamesButabi]

Montana these days is more freedom loving than New Hampshire. The only thing NH has on MT is no seatbelt laws. MT has a lot more on NH.

NH has no income tax; Montana is close to 7%. NH has a huge citizen legislature that makes barely any money.

Maybe hes not aware of the FSP? A good portion of NH is very religious oriented and theres an abundance of small church towns.

[Southron]

I wish him well. Perhaps he can help keep Montana from becoming Colorado...

[georgiaboy]

Maybe hes not aware of the FSP? A good portion of NH is very religious oriented and theres an abundance of small church towns.

Chuck knows about FSP, I'd wager.

He wrote in his post that the Montana/NW geography/populace was more favorable from his perspective to the defense, maintenance, and growth of the liberty movement than the NE, SE, or SW.

[RM918]

I voted for him. He may be far, far more religious than I am, but I count it as a personality quirk. Good for him if he's happy that way. So long as God doesn't force him to compromise his principles, he's good people.

[bruce leeroy]

while I understand where Baldwin is coming from, I couldnt do that. I'm so dyed in the wool Texan that I piss shiner bock; I dont think I could ever leave Texas.

[pcosmar]

NH has no income tax; Montana is close to 7%. NH has a huge citizen legislature that makes barely any money.

Maybe hes not aware of the FSP? A good portion of NH is very religious oriented and theres an abundance of small church towns.

I have no doubt he is aware. There are pockets of liberty minded folks all over the country.
he even mentioned that there are some in Florida, but that they are isolated and will likely be overrun.
My state of Michigan has pockets, more in the very rural areas.. So much so that the UP is almost a separate state. But we have literally no voice in state politics of policies.
SHTF, we will be ignored as usual.
This is a good thing.

As to NH, (I have been watching, hopefully) They have a huge socialist influx from surrounding areas. Those hoping for the FSP are largely outnumbered as yet.
There are good and bad areas all across the country.
I have hope that pockets of liberty will remain.
I think I am in one of them.
:cool:

[brenden.b]

Perhaps he should start a run for Governor while he is up there. If Tancredo can somehow pull it off in Colorado, or even make a good showing, it could bode well for a Constitution Party Gubernatorial candidate elsewhere, and why not the more liberty-minded Montana?

[ChaosControl]

He's awesome. Welcome to the Northwest. :D

[1000-points-of-fright]

Why We Are Moving To Montana (http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=2236)

To raise a crop of dental floss?

[amy31416]

My only complaint is that I want states like Montana to stay low in population so it's easier for me when I move out that way.

Other than that, I wish Baldwin all the best.

[ChaosControl]

NH has no income tax; Montana is close to 7%. NH has a huge citizen legislature that makes barely any money.

Maybe hes not aware of the FSP? A good portion of NH is very religious oriented and theres an abundance of small church towns.

NH is also infected with masshole syndrome.
NH is surrounded by filth. The NE is the absolute worst region in this country. The NW is the best. :D

[ravedown]

for some reason when i read " God told me to move to Montana" i hear " God told me to bomb Iran..." I know it's a stretch but didn't this guy run for office?

[pcosmar]

I know it's a stretch but didn't this guy run for office?

Yes, He was a huge Ron Paul supporter, And was endorsed by Ron Paul when he dropped out of the race.
:cool:

And he got my vote.

btw, his positions are very nearly identical to Dr. Paul's. The only difference is professions Ron is a doctor and Chuck is a minister.

[lester1/2jr]

"because we're white power weirdies"

[Sola_Fide]

^^^weak


I guess Ron is "white power" too, huh?

[KCIndy]

for some reason when i read " God told me to move to Montana" i hear " God told me to bomb Iran..." I know it's a stretch but didn't this guy run for office?


I don't agree with Baldwin on a lot of theological issues, but I'll say this for him: I have been impressed with his ability to separate his religious views from his ideas about government and foreign policy.

If you go back and read some of his columns on government and foreign policy, you'll see that Baldwin does NOT favor the initiation of force or intrusive interventions with other nations. He is very UNLIKE most other evangelicals in this regard. I've never seen him suggest bombing anyone.

[specsaregood]

NH has no income tax; Montana is close to 7%.

But NH has killer property taxes last I checked and I'd wager real estate costs more.



Estimated at 8.6% of income, Montana's state and local tax burden percentage comes in at 40th nationally, which is significantly below the national average of 9.7%.


How does NH compare to MT's 8.6%? I looked online and found something like 7.6%
Not too far off.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/468.html

[Sola_Fide]

I don't agree with Baldwin on a lot of theological issues, but I'll say this for him: I have been impressed with his ability to separate his religious views from his ideas about government and foreign policy.

If you go back and read some of his columns on government and foreign policy, you'll see that Baldwin does NOT favor the initiation of force or intrusive interventions with other nations. He is very UNLIKE most other evangelicals in this regard. I've never seen him suggest bombing anyone.

Or it could be that he actually reads and applies his Bible and the modern evangelical movement doesn't. It could be that his Biblical theology is informing his political views:)

[KCIndy]

Or it could be that he actually reads and applies his Bible and the modern evangelical movement doesn't. It could be that his Biblical theology is informing his political views:)


Yeah, as soon as I posted that I realized I could have phrased it better.

I wasn't taking a shot at evangelicals as a whole. I've just been amazed at how many self-proclaimed evangelicals have been eager to start dropping bombs. I've had discussions/disagreements about this with friends who are convinced the U.S. needs to bomb and invade Iran immediately because Iran is a "threat" to Israel. The view seems to be that they're afraid "God will punish us" if we don't go to war on behalf of the Israelis.... it's unnerving.

[teamrican1]

NH has a huge citizen legislature that makes barely any money.

Montana has a small legislature that meets for 90 days once every two years and gets paid $80 a day during that session. On this point I think Montana wins. Income Tax and Seatbelt advantage to New Hampshire though But really, how long can that last? The Smoking Ban went down in NH just recently. Seat Belts are sure to follow.

[ravedown]

Yeah, as soon as I posted that I realized I could have phrased it better.

I wasn't taking a shot at evangelicals as a whole. I've just been amazed at how many self-proclaimed evangelicals have been eager to start dropping bombs. I've had discussions/disagreements about this with friends who are convinced the U.S. needs to bomb and invade Iran immediately because Iran is a "threat" to Israel. The view seems to be that they're afraid "God will punish us" if we don't go to war on behalf of the Israelis.... it's unnerving.

this may deserve its own thread but i was recently informed by a family member who is a devout church goer that a common political message being shared in many churches around the country has to do with what can only be described as the early stages of a holy war with islam, and obama's presidency as one of the "signs". i admit im out of touch with all of this but i was wondering if anyone else has heard crap like this?

[Romulus]

I say good for him. As long as he stays in the country to fight, that's all that matters.

[Vessol]

Take me with you Chuck! :(

Someday..someday I shall return.

[kahless]

Any survivalist knows that when shit hits the fan the last place you want to be is near any large population center or megalopolis. That unfortunately leaves the cold mostly north and central states west of the Mississippi.

I completely understand where Chuck is coming from and face the same dilemma making the decision of getting out of the People's Republic of New York. I just hate the cold but there seems to be little chance of rolling back legislation or stopping the two party government worshipers east of the Mississippi. :(

Freedom loving people stand more of a chance banding together and consolidating power in these states to be the shining light for the rest of the country and world to follow.

Good luck Chuck!

[newbitech]

I have been writing this treatise to myself for years now. There are many things that I will need to do to prepare myself for such a move, such as learn to hunt, learn to grow in a harsh climate, and find some money for land.

However, this small voice inside of me has been getting louder and louder. That voice is adventurous, full of faith that I will find a way to survive, and most of all, the desire to be around other individuals who are willing to take that risk and get outside of their comfort zones to live a private life and work and trade with like minded individuals.

I also feel like Montana is like the Alamo. It seems to be my last resort, a place where I will want to hold out. Being single, it does scare me somewhat that I will not find a mate in such a climate. There are very few women who have the courage to make such a trek on their own. I would have to definitely get better at online dating to be able to convince that women to move out to Montana to marry me.

Of course, I may luck out and find someone who has the courage to do this on her own, but I have never been lucky like that lol.

So, I could be celibate if it means fighting for my freedom. I'd probably need to find someone like Chuck Baldwin and his family and go work on his property, clearing trees, tending to his garden or raising his livestock. I am totally willing to be a hired hand and a servant to someone who is wealthy and believes in freedom. It be nice if he had some single daughters too!

[Daamien]

NH is also infected with masshole syndrome.
NH is surrounded by filth. The NE is the absolute worst region in this country. The NW is the best. :D

Ouch, that hurt my feelings.

[ChaosControl]

Ouch, that hurt my feelings.

Why? You aren't responsible for all that the NE is anymore than I am responsible for the crap that Seattle is.

[Daamien]

I was just kidding. I'd think you'd like the more rural areas in NE at least.

[mconder]

I have been writing this treatise to myself for years now. There are many things that I will need to do to prepare myself for such a move, such as learn to hunt, learn to grow in a harsh climate, and find some money for land.

However, this small voice inside of me has been getting louder and louder. That voice is adventurous, full of faith that I will find a way to survive, and most of all, the desire to be around other individuals who are willing to take that risk and get outside of their comfort zones to live a private life and work and trade with like minded individuals.

I also feel like Montana is like the Alamo. It seems to be my last resort, a place where I will want to hold out. Being single, it does scare me somewhat that I will not find a mate in such a climate. There are very few women who have the courage to make such a trek on their own. I would have to definitely get better at online dating to be able to convince that women to move out to Montana to marry me.

Of course, I may luck out and find someone who has the courage to do this on her own, but I have never been lucky like that lol.

So, I could be celibate if it means fighting for my freedom. I'd probably need to find someone like Chuck Baldwin and his family and go work on his property, clearing trees, tending to his garden or raising his livestock. I am totally willing to be a hired hand and a servant to someone who is wealthy and believes in freedom. It be nice if he had some single daughters too!

It would be interesting to start a social network site focused on the survival of it's members. Have a communications, food and shelter plan in the case of emergencies all around the country. Only allow people who have property or skills that can benefit the people of this "survival network." I wonder if something like this could work?

[ChaosControl]

I was just kidding. I'd think you'd like the more rural areas in NE at least.

Possibly. It usually is the urban areas that suck, regardless of the location. (Example being Atlanta is just as bad as Seattle is just as bad as San Francisco). The NE just happens to be more urban.

But I'll stick the NW.

[fj45lvr]

Possibly. It usually is the urban areas that suck, regardless of the location. (Example being Atlanta is just as bad as Seattle is just as bad as San Francisco). The NE just happens to be more urban.

But I'll stick the NW.


Exactly....the real struggle is between "urban" and "rural" citizens...

[Baptist]

Montana these days is more freedom loving than New Hampshire. The only thing NH has on MT is no seatbelt laws. MT has a lot more on NH.

Yeah, I agree. Montana and the West is where it is at. We are dedicating the whole month of October to finding a job in Montana or Utah.

NH 2008 = Paul 8%
Montana 2008 = Paul 25%

Nuff said.

[edit]
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=MT
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/county/#val=MTREPMAPCAUCUS1

[bruce leeroy]

Possibly. It usually is the urban areas that suck, regardless of the location. (Example being Atlanta is just as bad as Seattle is just as bad as San Francisco). The NE just happens to be more urban.

But I'll stick the NW.

I wouldnt say all urban areas suck
Ive lived in both Dallas(both inner city and suburban) and Houston, and to be honest I prefer either place to most others.............Now new orleans and OKC both sucked donkey balls though

[bunklocoempire]

To raise a crop of dental floss?


LOL! Good, somebody had to say it.:D

Good for you Chuck, Montana will be better for it.:)


Bunkloco

[Anti Federalist]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

Why must you mock?

People of faith make decisions based on that faith everyday.

Like PCO said, the country was founded by "crazy" people making a life or death move, based on faith.

[Wesker1982]

It would be awesome living here if it wasn't normal for temperatures to get -40 or colder in the winter. Winter here sucks, bad, and its winter 8 months out of the year.

[ChaosControl]

I wouldnt say all urban areas suck
Ive lived in both Dallas(both inner city and suburban) and Houston, and to be honest I prefer either place to most others.............Now new orleans and OKC both sucked donkey balls though

I wouldn't live in an urban area even if I was offered 1,000,000/year salary.

Heck my area of around 40k is excessively large. I need a town thats under 2k. I swear I'd be homicidal if I had to live in a metro area.

[bruce leeroy]

I wouldn't live in an urban area even if I was offered 1,000,000/year salary.

Heck my area of around 40k is excessively large. I need a town thats under 2k. I swear I'd be homicidal if I had to live in a metro area.


another thing about the dallas-fort worth area, is for the most part, even in large sections of the inner city, the population density is nowhere near what it is in Los ANgeles or New orleans or philly

[KCIndy]

I wouldn't live in an urban area even if I was offered 1,000,000/year salary.

Heck my area of around 40k is excessively large. I need a town thats under 2k. I swear I'd be homicidal if I had to live in a metro area.


I know what you mean.

The little town where I live has a population under 7K. And there are plenty of times it STILL feels crowded. If I had to live in a big city I would go nuts in very short order.

[Baptist]

Here is one of the countless reasons why West > East.

http://eadiv.state.wy.us/images/Trends/2k_night.jpg

[Baptist]

And although dated (2002), this article sums up great things about Montana.
http://freestateproject.org/archives/state_reports/montana1



Montana Report
by Ben Irvin
A few days ago on one of the FSP discussion groups I mentioned that in 56 years (almost 57 years) I have lived (for sixty days or more) in 89 communities in every state between the Hundredth Meridian and the Sierra Nevada Mountains (except Nebraska and North Dakota). As a teenager I was interested in freedom and in seeking a place and way for achieving it. As early as 1962 I researched the advantages of secession. Thus, my interest in things relating to the primary goal of the Free State Project is long-standing. I have given, over the past forty years, considerable thought to the subject.

My years of contemplation and research have led me to a conclusion about which state is most amenable to the Jeffersonian concepts of independence, limited government, and liberty. That state would be Montana. Indeed, if freedom alone is the primary objective, no other state comes close.

My choice of Montana is not based so much on collected statistical data as on subjective reality (Transcendentalism Lives!). Since my childhood I have been in and out of Montana many times (living in other states). I currently - for the past two years - have lived in Idaho. One thing that I and freedom loving Montanans notice when forced to live away from Montana is the much higher level of statism, coercion (governmental and social), regulation, etc. that exists in other states. In some states the heavy hand of government is more pronounced (WA, OR, TX, KS, CA). In other states not so much (NV, ID, and WY). However, in all states the degree of liberty seems much less than in Montana. Most Montanans that move away mention this reduction of liberty ("We have to behave here; for, we're not in Montana any more, etc.). I've noticed that even my use of language seems restricted outside of Montana.

Liberty Indicators:

* Small Police Force

One thing that visitors notice when visiting is the unusually low number of visible police cars. Indeed it is possible to drive completely through the state (all 800+ miles) and never see a policeman. In fact, Montana does not have a state police force, but rather a highway patrol. Ten years ago I was a good friend of one of the state's few highway patrol officers. I asked him how many officers were on duty at any time. He responded that at maximum there are 108 officers and at minimum 42 officers on duty at any time. Remember, Montana is larger in square miles than Germany. County and city law enforcement numbers are also low. In Ravalli County (seventh largest in population) there are at times only three sheriff's deputies on duty. Montana Highway Patrol officers are trained to serve and protect the public and little else.
* Socio-Cultural Background

About 10% of Montana's population is American Indian. The primary tribes (those with national homelands) are: Atsina (Gros Ventre), Chippewa, Blackfeet, Crow, Cree, Dakota, Assiniboine, Northern Cheyenne, Salish, and Kutenai. All of the states tribes have declared sovereignty from Montana and are fiercely independent (they acknowledge no Montana laws and few federal). Many non-Indians prefer to live on Indian land (12% of Montana) because of this almost total lack of restrictive rules, taxes, regulation,etc. Montana also has a very large French and Metis (French-Indian) population. Most of the French population are the descendents of mountain men and fur traders from the early 19th Century. They also tend to be independent in behavior. Probably Montana's single largest ethnic group is the Irish. They first came to the state to pan for gold and later to work in the copper mines of Butte. Little needs to be said about the frontier Irish and an independent nature. All three primary ethnic groups are enculturated to individualism and liberty ... all are free spirits.
* Isolation

About thirty years ago there was a popular book (in Montana at least) entitled Montana: A Two Lane Highway in a Four Lane World." Many thought the book amusing in the way that it portrayed the so-called backward and country ways/manners of Montana and Montanans. What was most illuminating about the book were the ways Montanans did most things differently than the rest of America (more about that later): no speed limits or anti-prostitution law enforcement, little liquor or gambling control, active gun culture, no sales tax, no pornography regulation, no "open container" laws or anti-nudity ordinances (seldom enforced), etc. The book made the case that because of Montana's isolation, the frontier values of 1889 and before had become part and parcel of Montana's political and cultural climate. In other words, the raw individualism and spirit of liberty of the men and women that settled and tamed Montana (somewhat) are still a living entity in the Montana of 1972 (and today).

Montana's isolation has caused the state to be more self-sufficient than most. The state has its own private television network (The Montana Television Network-MTN), canning factories (Redlodge Brands, etc.), railroads (Montana Rail Link, + Butte, Anaconda and Pacific, etc.), truck farming regions, independent telephone companies (about 50), refineries and steel factories, etc. The state is set up to survive with or without the rest of America.
* Other Freedom Indicators

There are numerous other freedom indicators. One should remember that libertarian philosophy is not always an exact match with freedom as experienced by an individual. One such freedom is Montana's constitutional mandate that the state owns all water within the borders of Montana (up to the high water mark). This constitutional law is unique. In effect it allows anyone to hunt, fish, camp, target practice, live, hike, explode fire-crackers, etc. on any river, stream, creek, or brook in the state below the high water mark. Anyone that has tried to fish, hunt, etc. in say Colorado knows the value of such a law.

Montana's 1972 Constitution allows counties and local government to be creative. Both counties and cities may be easily altered or abolished. About twenty years ago, all the towns and cities in Silver Bowl County (Butte) eradicated (unincorporated) themselves. All city governments, police forces, fire departments, etc. were abolished in the county. A new Silver Bowl County government was established that saves the taxpayers millions of dollars each year. Montana makes it very difficult for rural areas to be annexed by incorporated cities/towns, for a majority of the citizens must agree to be annexed . The state makes incorporating (cities and towns) very unrewarding. Once incorporated you do not get any money from the state or county ... a town is on its own. As recently as 1992, the fourth largest urban community in the state (Billings Heights) was unincorporated. Anyone that has ever driven through either rural or urban Montana can sense the almost total lack of zoning ordinances. People build what they want, where they want, on their own property.

Members of the Free State Project should notice how the state treats it 57 Hutterite communities. Hutterites are a communal ethnic group that has frozen its social and religious culture in the rural 16th Century German-Tyrolean culture of its origin. Hutterites are a pure communist society that has a unique religion and speaks in an archaic German dialect. The culture refuses to acknowledge the state or to vote or serve in the military in any capacity. Traditionally they have refused to send any of their children to public schools. Each Hutterite community buys large land tracks and expands every 20-25 years (they have a very high birth rate). Although their social culture is frozen in time, their technical culture demands the most modern equipment available. Many consider them the most efficient farmers in the world. Because of their unusual culture and life-style, most states and provinces have legislated against them. They have been "outlawed" in North Dakota, and severe restrictions have been placed on them in South Dakota, Alberta, and elsewhere. Only Montana has made a successful accommodation with them ("The Hutterite Act" of 1956). Under the compromise, Hutterites may buy all the land they want, live communally, and live their own culture without any interference from Montana. Their only compromise was in education. All Hutterite children (from age 7-14) must attend Montana public schools. However, all schools may be at the principle church building (in a colony), and all the children (100%) may be Hutterite. In addition, the school board was allowed be all Hutterite and a third of the instruction could be whatever the Hutterite desire. The agreement allowed the colonies to select the teacher (who is not permitted to reside in the colony). The Hutterite are also exempted from serving in the Militia of Montana. Because of this agreement, almost all new colonies started since 1960 are in Montana. Because of their high birth rate, archaic Tyrolean-German has become the third most common language used by Montanans (Crow is second) under eighteen years of age.

For many years a few large corporations owned most of the private land in the state. Because of this the state has placed severe restrictions on giant corporations and has designed legislation that helps small businesses. An example of this would be the gambling laws. To keep large Las Vegas type corporations away from the state, Montana puts a limit of 25 gambling machines per private company (usually Keno or poker machines). Anyone that has a beer, wine, or hard liquor permit may establish a casino. Anyone with $250.00 can get a beer permit (no limits). A gambling permit also costs $250.00. The cost of the permit is used to pay private machine inspectors that check every thirty days to make sure the machines are paying off at the listed rate (80%). Because service stations like Conoco are individually owned, they (Conoco) have become the largest casino name in the state. At least half of all gasoline stations are casinos. It should be noted that an individual might own an unlimited amount of (limited to 25 machines per location) casinos.

The Constitution of Montana is stronger than the interpreted U.S. Constitution in regards to privacy rights. A man's home is his castle. The State Supreme Court has ruled (on several occasions) that a person's vehicle is considered one's home. Thus, probable cause or a search warrant must be used to search an automobile. A few years ago the Missoula city police thought that a new "cash cow" would be to check for drunk drivers exiting from "tail-gate parties" at University of Montana football games. This lasted for only one weekend before a state judge ruled that such police actions were in violation of the Montana Constitution. The state has no "open container" laws. Indeed, many Montanans build elaborate bars on the dash area of their vehicles.

Restrictions on freedom are not limited to government. Social-cultural limitations on lived freedom are often as severe as anything that government might impose. On paper, Utah has a high level of liberty; however, in practice, Utah is very restrictive on personal freedom. An example would be the recent news story about a suburban Utah lady who worked in her garden every day clad only in a very revealing Bikini. Local socio-cultural traditions forced the local city government to prohibit her from dressing in a Bikini.

This would never happen in Montana. Many former out-of-state people (now long-time residence of Montana) mention this freedom from conservative values that exists in Montana. Try wearing your Colt .45's when entering a saloon in Colorado (or Kansas, etc.). This is common in Montana; for, the spirit of the old West (closely related to the spirit of 1776) still lives in the "Big Sky." Try taking your children with you to a casino in Nevada. In Montana, not only are children welcomed in casinos, they can bring you your whiskey ditch to drink. Before July 1, 1993 it was legal for a ten year old to enter a hard liquor bar/casino and order and smoke a pack of cigarettes. The law was only changed because of Federal pressure (Montana was the 50th state to establish an age limit on the purchase of tobacco products). Montana law also makes it illegal for police to arrest a publicly intoxicated person unless that person's health is in immediate danger or the person is breaking the law. A famous business in Missoula (Montana's second largest city) is called "The Joint Effort." Last year the FBI and DEA tried to get the city of Missoula to deny the business a business license and close it down. The city told the Feds to back off and stop interfering with private businesses and with regulations that are solely the concern of state or local governments (thus far, the feds have done what they were told).

The state constitution is very strong in free speech/press rights. I have read several times that Montana is one of only four states (I don't know the other three) that has total freedom of speech and press. The state also prohibits local governments from interfering with freedom of speech and press. Out-of-staters that enter an adult bookstore are always shocked. Any and all sexual acts imaginable with man or beast are for purchase. A decade ago I was the head administrator for a school in northern Idaho (a much different cultural realm than Montana). The high school 4-H club had a conference to attend in southeastern Idaho. It was easiest to get to the conference by driving through western Montana. At Missoula, Montana the bus broke down and all the students had to spend a night in a local motel that just happened to be across the street from a typical Montana Adult bookstore and recreation center. Some of the students managed to sneak away from the chaperons and get into the adult center. They are still talking about this in that small community in northern Idaho. It seems, that some students saw a whole new world that was and is unimaginable in Idaho (or most of America). There were two special school board meetings called to discus the "sin" Idaho teenagers had been exposed to. However, I did notice, as time moved on, that a higher than average number of our students decided to attend colleges in Montana.

Montana is the place of choice for anti-socials to retreat. The Unabomber, the Freemen, Peter Fonda, etc. all selected the state to become hidden. Because of Montana's reputation and laws the feds usually treat Montana and Montanans with knit gloves (compared to other states). In 1996 a group of "Freemen" were surrounded in a remote area of eastern Montana. The feds, apparently either fearful of Montana's laws (it is illegal under the state constitution for any armed band of people to enter the state without the permission of the legislature or governor) or people, the FBI requested that the Montana Highway Patrol and the Governor be in charge of surrounding and arresting the Freeman. Governor Raicott agreed, but later billed the FBI 4.8 million dollars. During the siege (that went on for weeks) a federal agent was never seen on TV. Of course, the Montana Highway Patrol arrested all 24 people without a shot being fired. Compare this with Waco and the way the FBI treated Texans, Texas law, and Texas law enforcement officials. The "Gestapo" behaves in Montana.

In summary, experienced or real freedom is higher in Montana than any other state. Not only is the heavy hand of government noticed less in Montana, the heavy hand of conservative social morality is at a lower level than any other state. One can dump a broken down 1958 Studebaker in the front yard and sit on it everyday in one's underwear drinking beer, wearing a holstered .45 auto, and make obscene gestures at traffic passing by in the largest city in Montana and not get arrested (unless, of course, one throws beer bottles or shoots at the passing vehicles). If freedom is the primary objective of the Free State Project, then Montana is the best place to locate. It is the place Thomas Jefferson would live in if he were alive.

July 24, 2002

[speciallyblend]

This guy sounds crazy to me. God is moving him north? Why can't he take responsibility for this decision?

i hear what you are saying! Nothing against chuck baldwin but the cp would be better off if they just showed up to gop meetings and reclaimed the gop and tone down their sermon a bit! the main stream voter will never find the cp appealing! I voted for the man but the cp convention reminded me more of a sermon then a party convention!!

[TNforPaul45]

I have had this overwhelming urge for a few years now to get west of the Mississippi as soon as possible....

[heavenlyboy34]

i hear what you are saying! Nothing against chuck baldwin but the cp would be better off if they just showed up to gop meetings and reclaimed the gop and tone down their sermon a bit! the main stream voter will never find the cp appealing! I voted for the man but the cp convention reminded me more of a sermon then a party convention!!

What makes you think that? Power just for power's sake is no better than no power at all. :p Silly GOPers.

[klamath]

My son and family live in sanders county MT one of the counties that voted for RP in 2008. The libertarian Republicans there are more religious than NE libertarians. I spend a lot of time there with the family. I can fully see why Chuck chose MT. The Prochoice libertarians probably are as distasteful to him as the neocon republicans. It is both killing for convenence.

[TheTyke]

Yeah, I agree. Montana and the West is where it is at. We are dedicating the whole month of October to finding a job in Montana or Utah.

NH 2008 = Paul 8%
Montana 2008 = Paul 25%

Nuff said.

[edit]
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=MT
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/county/#val=MTREPMAPCAUCUS1

I bet he had those numbers in mind.

[Ninja Homer]

I'd like to move to Western Montana in about 3 years, for pretty much the same reasons (well, except for the God telling me to part). The difference is, coming from Minnesota, I'm looking forward to much warmer winters and less humid summers.

[speciallyblend]

What makes you think that? Power just for power's sake is no better than no power at all. :p Silly GOPers.

silly ron paul supporters who refuse to win Ron Paul the gop nomination in 2012!

stop dreaming unless you want to win Ron Paul the nomination!!! enjoy obama. you can thank yourself for his 2nd term when he wins!!

[heavenlyboy34]

silly ron paul supporters who refuse to win Ron Paul the gop nomination in 2012!

stop dreaming unless you want to win Ron Paul the nomination!!! enjoy obama. you can thank yourself for his 2nd term when he wins!!


:rolleyes: Come now. You know better than to play dialectics with me. You're the one who's dreaming if you think simply winning an election will change anything.

[speciallyblend]

:rolleyes: Come now. You know better than to play dialectics with me. You're the one who's dreaming if you think simply winning an election will change anything.

i do know that. that is why i am focusing locally on county seats and in future elections town council! I am also trying to help out in state races! Doing my best to multi-task;) I have kinda of written off the rest of the country. I am focusing on the United States of Colorado:)

[Agorism]

YouTube - The Constitution Party returns ~ Baldwin 08' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKbThyFMtk)

YouTube - Buck for Chuck~* 9-20-08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-xSDlSISSY&feature=related)

[nobody's_hero]

The Chuck Baldwin youtube montage with Johnny Cash's song was one of my favorites of the 2008 year. Thanks for posting that, I had given up trying to find it.

[youngbuck]

"because we're white power weirdies"

What happened to you that allows you to feel proud while proclaiming your ignorance?