100+ MPG possible today, with aircon, heater and 200-mile driving range

[free1]

Don't let the mainstream media, oil companies, or politicians (bought and paid for by the big corporations) tell you otherwise.

The "mainstream" category is for cars that seat four people, can carry 10 cubic feet of luggage, have a 200-mile driving range, can accelerate to 60 mph in less than 15 seconds and have a heater, air conditioner and stereo system. The goal is for the mainstream cars to meet most functional requirements for typical drivers while delivering at least 100 miles per gallon. $5 million won.

Li-Ion Motors, got the equivalent of 187 miles per gallon and a $2.5 million prize in the "alternative" category.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/09/automotive-x-prize-100-mpg-winners-announced-.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129893403

[newyearsrevolution08]

ok

so the thought in my head is this

if it is around why hasn't a motor company bought this from them?

I doubt ALL motor builders are neo cons lol

everyone with a brain can't be against us

[crazyfacedjenkins]

These prizes really have been pushing the free market to produce great results. Soon enough we'll see some of these making their way in mass production. Some of them actually like viable.

For example, the low cost space craft challenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansari_X_Prize), they are producing results for a fraction of what NASA would charge. Quite exciting.

[free1]

It looks like these companies want to go on to market their cars. Big oil could buy them out but the designs are already public information due to this contest and there are a lot of people doing this, one article said there were more than 100 competitors in this contest.

"Now all 42 teams that competed in on-the-ground competition will move on to try to bring their designs to market. Li-Ion and Edison2 are working on their next generation vehicles. Li-Ion’s will be a sports car called the Inizio, which is a running prototype now. Edison2 is not yet determined."

I wish they had a retrofit kit for normal cars like mine!

Even if it only got 75 MPG, I would be happy!

[dannno]

I doubt ALL motor builders are neo cons lol


Maybe not neocons, but the CEOs and many of the board members attend Bilderberg, CFR or Bohemian Grove.

[Elwar]

The Chevy Volt will be getting the equivalent of 100+ mpg. I forget how they calculate the equivalency because it's a combination of electric input and gas input. But you could actually never use gas again if you don't drive more than 40 miles per day.

[Blueskies]

The Chevy Volt is a joke. For $40k GM could've a built a much better electric car.

[Koz]

The Chevy Volt is a joke. For $40k GM could've a built a much better electric car.

Not with the union costs they can't.

[Elwar]

The Chevy Volt is a joke. For $40k GM could've a built a much better electric car.

At least with this one you can buy it and you don't have to give it back to Chevy for them to crush.

[noxagol]

I read about this in a Popular Mechanics magazine. Part of the challenge was also working out the business end of the car; creating a business plan and production method for getting the car to market.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Maybe not neocons, but the CEOs and many of the board members attend Bilderberg, CFR or Bohemian Grove.

agreed

money talks for sure and man o man do those guys have some freakin power.

I wonder what that feels like, as far as being able to allow people to live/die at your will. Talk about an ego booster.

[Toureg89]

my bike gets 40+.

some scooters get 80+.

im sure its more than possible with the right technology, and the right equation of low friction moving components, low energy usage electronic systems, and low weight superstructure, to get 200mpg in there near future.

[robert9712000]

the final factor is can the car be produced and sold at a competitive price in the market place?

its all good if it can get 100+ miles but if itll cost 100k to buy one then it wont get much traction in the market place

[free1]

the final factor is can the car be produced and sold at a competitive price in the market place?

its all good if it can get 100+ miles but if itll cost 100k to buy one then it wont get much traction in the market place
How about conversion kits for existing cars?

Now you don't need government approval for the car part, you are just replacing the engine or whatever.

"Save a junker" - New program that saves the environment by not junking perfectly good car shells and turning them into good transportation. (feel free to run with the idea, remember that 'bama has a new free money giveaway program for things like this, get your "fair share" of free re-distributive money today)

[Zippyjuan]

How about conversion kits for existing cars?

Now you don't need government approval for the car part, you are just replacing the engine or whatever.

"Save a junker" - New program that saves the environment by not junking perfectly good car shells and turning them into good transportation. (feel free to run with the idea, remember that 'bama has a new free money giveaway program for things like this, get your "fair share" of free re-distributive money today)

A conventional car would not get 100 mpg with the technology of these new protypes but could probably could get better mileage. Crucial parts include the physical shape of the vehicle- note that it is long and narrow and low with skinnier wheels (less rolling resistance) and its weight- the 100 mpg car only weighs about 840 pounds. Average car on the road is about 4000 pounds. That takes more energy to get moving but once moving has more momentum to carry it on flat or downhill terrain.

[virgil47]

Until the cost of replacement batteries no longer equal 25% of the cost of the vehicle and last longer than 10 years the electric auto industry is stillborn and will never live.

[oyarde]

Until the cost of replacement batteries no longer equal 25% of the cost of the vehicle and last longer than 10 years the electric auto industry is stillborn and will never live.

True , also there is the added problem of the natural resources used to make the batteries which leans toward costs not coming down much .

[Zippyjuan]

Also if everybody adopts electric cars you then need to generate all the electricity to charge all those batteries with. That means more power plants being constructed- and most of them will be buring some form of fossil fuel- transfering the fossil fuel burned by the cars to the fossil fuel burned by the power generation source.

[oyarde]

Also if everybody adopts electric cars you then need to generate all the electricity to charge all those batteries with. That means more power plants being constructed- and most of them will be buring some form of fossil fuel- transfering the fossil fuel burned by the cars to the fossil fuel burned by the power generation source.

Pretty much what I think . Coal generated electricity to charge ultra expensive batteries that will not last long enough to pay off the car .

[Ninja Homer]

ok

so the thought in my head is this

if it is around why hasn't a motor company bought this from them?

I doubt ALL motor builders are neo cons lol

everyone with a brain can't be against us

Tucker cars weren't shut down because they made crappy cars... it was a result of the Big Three automaker's lobbyists getting the SEC to shut them down. That was over 60 years ago. Think about how much power they must have now.

Big automakers are perfectly happy with selling crappy cars as long as they're all using about the same technology.

The whole "if that technology really worked, then somebody would be making lots of money off it" argument doesn't hold water when corporations have control of the government.

[legion]

Unfortunately this vehicle complies with next to none of the FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html

You can read them at the above link.

[oyarde]

Tucker cars weren't shut down because they made crappy cars... it was a result of the Big Three automaker's lobbyists getting the SEC to shut them down. That was over 60 years ago. Think about how much power they must have now.

Big automakers are perfectly happy with selling crappy cars as long as they're all using about the same technology.

The whole "if that technology really worked, then somebody would be making lots of money off it" argument doesn't hold water when corporations have control of the government.

Or when govt. owns the corp .

[free1]

Until the cost of replacement batteries no longer equal 25% of the cost of the vehicle and last longer than 10 years the electric auto industry is stillborn and will never live.

The date says it's 2010, you might want to look up Lithium-ion polymer batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery

GM Says Chevy Volt Battery Will Have a 10-Year 150,000-Mile Warranty
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/05/gm-says-chevy-volt-battery-will-have-a-10-year-150000-mile-warranty/

Lithium Iron Phosphate
http://www.a123systems.com/a123/technology/life
"A123’s Nanophosphate™ technology delivers exceptional calendar and cycle life. At low rates our ANR26650M1 cells can deliver thousands of cycles at 100% Depth-of-Discharge (DOD), a feat unmatched by most commercial lithium ion cells. Even when cycled at 10C discharge rates, our cells deliver in excess of 1,000 full depth-of-discharge cycles. Our batteries are projected to last up to 10 years in usage and are well-suited for automotive applications including hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV). And at high rates with 100% DOD, they deliver excellent life performance for cordless applications."

You can buy them today if you want to mess with this technology yourself, ($4 for a small one) but the A123 ones would be better if you don't mind waiting.
http://www.all-battery.com/lifepo4battery.aspx
"Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal"
"1/3 weight of Lead Acid and 65% weight of NIMH"


Also if everybody adopts electric cars you then need to generate all the electricity to charge all those batteries with. That means more power plants being constructed- and most of them will be buring some form of fossil fuel- transfering the fossil fuel burned by the cars to the fossil fuel burned by the power generation source.

Wind, solar and fusion (yes we are close) will be pushed more to compensate. Build it (cars) and they will come (and make the energy available).

And if you don't drive all that much, which would be the case if gas was $15 a gal, most people would re-arrange their lives to be more "green" by necessity, and you could generate the power at home. There are currently $1.65 per watt panels you can buy one at a time right now today.

So now we are back to simply price, and hopefully as more people buy these and stop thinking so damn negative about electric, it will happen soon.

[oyarde]

The date says it's 2010, you might want to look up Lithium-ion polymer batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery

GM Says Chevy Volt Battery Will Have a 10-Year 150,000-Mile Warranty
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/05/gm-says-chevy-volt-battery-will-have-a-10-year-150000-mile-warranty/

Wind, solar and fusion (yes we are close) will be pushed more to compensate. Build it (cars) and they will come (and make the energy available).

And if you don't drive all that much, which would be the case if gas was $15 a gal, most people would re-arrange their lives to be more "green" by necessity, and you could generate the power at home. There are currently $1.65 per watt panels you can buy one at a time right now today.

So now we are back to simply price, and hopefully as more people buy these and stop thinking so damn negative about electric, it will happen soon.

The negative will not be there if the costs are acceptable .

[virgil47]

The date says it's 2010, you might want to look up Lithium-ion polymer batteries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery

GM Says Chevy Volt Battery Will Have a 10-Year 150,000-Mile Warranty
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/05/gm-says-chevy-volt-battery-will-have-a-10-year-150000-mile-warranty/

Lithium Iron Phosphate
http://www.a123systems.com/a123/technology/life
"A123’s Nanophosphate™ technology delivers exceptional calendar and cycle life. At low rates our ANR26650M1 cells can deliver thousands of cycles at 100% Depth-of-Discharge (DOD), a feat unmatched by most commercial lithium ion cells. Even when cycled at 10C discharge rates, our cells deliver in excess of 1,000 full depth-of-discharge cycles.Our batteries are projected to last up to 10 years in usage and are well-suited for automotive applications including hybrid electric vehicles (HEV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV). And at high rates with 100% DOD, they deliver excellent life performance for cordless applications."

You can buy them today if you want to mess with this technology yourself, ($4 for a small one) but the A123 ones would be better if you don't mind waiting.
http://www.all-battery.com/lifepo4battery.aspx
"Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal"
"1/3 weight of Lead Acid and 65% weight of NIMH"



Wind, solar and fusion (yes we are close) will be pushed more to compensate. Build it (cars) and they will come (and make the energy available).

And if you don't drive all that much, which would be the case if gas was $15 a gal, most people would re-arrange their lives to be more "green" by necessity, and you could generate the power at home. There are currently $1.65 per watt panels you can buy one at a time right now today.

So now we are back to simply price, and hopefully as more people buy these and stop thinking so damn negative about electric, it will happen soon.


If you'd care to reread my post I think you'll find that I did say that the batteries will last about 10 years. Again so what! If they cost 25% of the cost of the vehicle people will not buy them. Are you advocating being forced to buy a new vehicle every 10 years? Of course this does not even begin to address the ecological concerns of the manufacturing and disposal of these highly touted batteries or the infrastructure and generating facilities required to simply recharge them.

[free1]

The negative will not be there if the costs are acceptable .
The other interesting thing is that GM is figuring into the price that these cars will need one battery change out in the 10 years (on GM's dime). But the battery guys say it's 10 years and I bet they are being conservative about that.

On top of that the technology is pretty new and will only improve over time.

So what may happen is you will see a $15,000 drop in price after they have a chance to test the batteries over time and realize that no change out will be needed (including price dropping competition from other car makers). They have already been testing the batteries since I think about 2007, and the tests are for harsh outdoor car like situations, including vibration.

Plus, as the battery companies ramp up production, and add automation / robotics to do that, the price will continue to drop.

People really have to factor in all the angles when figuring out how new technology will affect the future. Plus political and economic things are going to start to change drastically in November, and there's a lot of socialists out there that thought they had it made, but forgot to factor in all the angles :)

The socialists will have to drop off the government dole and go work at a battery factory!

[oyarde]

The other interesting thing is that GM is figuring into the price that these cars will need one battery change out in the 10 years (on GM's dime). But the battery guys say it's 10 years and I bet they are being conservative about that.

On top of that the technology is pretty new and will only improve over time.

So what may happen is you will see a $15,000 drop in price after they have a chance to test the batteries over time and realize that no change out will be needed (including price dropping competition from other car makers). They have already been testing the batteries since I think about 2007, and the tests are for harsh outdoor car like situations, including vibration.

Plus, as the battery companies ramp up production, and add automation / robotics to do that, the price will continue to drop.

People really have to factor in all the angles when figuring out how new technology will affect the future. Plus political and economic things are going to start to change drastically in November, and there's a lot of socialists out there that thought they had it made, but forgot to factor in all the angles :)

The socialists will have to drop off the government dole and go work at a battery factory!

Something would have to happen to drop that price tag drastically , I know of no person who would pay 40,000 for that vehicle .

[free1]

If you'd care to reread my post I think you'll find that I did say that the batteries will last about 10 years. Again so what! If they cost 25% of the cost of the vehicle people will not buy them. Are you advocating being forced to buy a new vehicle every 10 years? Of course this does not even begin to address the ecological concerns of the manufacturing and disposal of these highly touted batteries or the infrastructure and generating facilities required to simply recharge them.

You are already "forced" to buy a new car every 10 years, they fall apart, unless you don't put any miles on them and park them in a garage all day long. In that case, you will never need a new battery. (or a car for that matter)

Please click on the links I provided you.

"ecological concerns" - "Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal"

Please click on the links. It's not 1980 anymore.

We don't actually "throw away" car batteries, they get recycled. Remember that core charge you had last time you got a battery? You had to return your old one or pay up. It's a very profitable business recycling them.

"generating facilities" - "build it and they will come"

"1,000-megawatt Blythe, CA solar power cleared by state regulators"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260925

[oyarde]

You are already "forced" to buy a new car every 10 years, they fall apart, unless you don't put any miles on them and park them in a garage all day long. In that case, you will never need a new battery. (or a car for that matter)

Please click on the links I provided you.

"ecological concerns" - "Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal"

Please click on the links. It's not 1980 anymore.

We don't actually "throw away" car batteries, they get recycled. Remember that core charge you had last time you got a battery? You had to return your old one or pay up. It's a very profitable business recycling them.

"generating facilities" - "build it and they will come"

"1,000-megawatt Blythe, CA solar power cleared by state regulators"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260925

I drove a new 1991 S 10 Chevy every day until fall of 2005 in the rust belt , never garaged it , never washed it . $9000 sticker , but I got 4 or 5 k for my 1986 Silverado trade in .

[free1]

Here's another one they are using in the new Mercedes-Benz A-Class E-Cell electric car, the Zebra Battery.

"high-energy battery made from common salt, ceramics and nickel" 100% recyclable
http://www.solartaxi.com/technology/zebra-battery/


http://evworld.com/currents.cfm?jid=145

[virgil47]

You are already "forced" to buy a new car every 10 years, they fall apart, unless you don't put any miles on them and park them in a garage all day long. In that case, you will never need a new battery. (or a car for that matter)

Please click on the links I provided you.

"ecological concerns" - "Environmentally Friendly Non-toxic, non-contaminating and No rare metal"

Please click on the links. It's not 1980 anymore.

We don't actually "throw away" car batteries, they get recycled. Remember that core charge you had last time you got a battery? You had to return your old one or pay up. It's a very profitable business recycling them.

"generating facilities" - "build it and they will come"

"1,000-megawatt Blythe, CA solar power cleared by state regulators"
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260925



Ecological concerns are simply a euphemism for we want to control you're buying habits by the Al Gores of the world. They also a way to control and damage an existing economy. When the "BOMB" didn't work those wishing to destroy our country and way of life went "GREEN". Well "GREEN" is working.

[free1]

Ecological concerns are simply a euphemism for we want to control you're buying habits by the Al Gores of the world. They also a way to control and damage an existing economy. When the "BOMB" didn't work those wishing to destroy our country and way of life went "GREEN". Well "GREEN" is working.
A lot of ecological concerns are real, we don't want companies dumping toxic waste and things like that, but of course the politicians can go overboard sometimes.

[Jim Casey]

Something would have to happen to drop that price tag drastically , I know of no person who would pay 40,000 for that vehicle .
Production of the Volt is already increasing because of demand, and foreign manufacturers are taking out loans to keep up.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/17/electric-cars_n_718810.html

Thanks to strong demand, GM is doubling its production capacity for the highly anticipated Chevy Volt. Nissan has even taken a $1.6 billion U.S. Department of Energy loan to modify an existing US plant to manufacture the Leaf.

The Chevy Volt is a joke. For $40k GM could've a built a much better electric car.
With a larger bailout package, the car might have been available for less.

The Chevy Volt will be getting the equivalent of 100+ mpg. I forget how they calculate the equivalency because it's a combination of electric input and gas input. But you could actually never use gas again if you don't drive more than 40 miles per day.
The success of the Volt in terms of giving Americans a real choice to reduce dependence on foreign oil is going to vindicate a lot of Obama voters and has a strong chance to assure his reelection in 2012.

Not with the union costs they can't.
The costs to the American job market for outsourcing jobs is much higher, and labor unions are the strongest force out there to keep that from happening.

[specsaregood]

You are already "forced" to buy a new car every 10 years, they fall apart, unless you don't put any miles on them and park them in a garage all day long. In that case, you will never need a new battery. (or a car for that matter)


You either don't expect much out of your vehicles, or don't know about proper maintenance procedures. There is no reason a car shouldn't last well over 10yrs.

[free1]

You either don't expect much out of your vehicles, or don't know about proper maintenance procedures. There is no reason a car shouldn't last well over 10yrs.
You need to drive them. 250,000 miles is about the limit, then it's tranny and motor time. About the same percentage as the cost of batteries so I don't see the big difference.

And the cost of the batteries will go down over time and their lifetime will only increase, solar will get cheaper, so it's a good choice to go electric.

You also need to calculate all the gas you will buy over those years, compared to the electric costs.

If you don't go more than about about 50 miles a day, it's all electric. And that will increase as they develop better technology over those 10 years. Trade in, trade up.

I also like the idea that all those short trips to the local store could be done without sending a dime to the oil companies, or IRAQ. Solar panels could provide enough for the house and the short trips.

And that the electric power will come from America.

[roho76]

The Chevy Volt will be getting the equivalent of 100+ mpg. I forget how they calculate the equivalency because it's a combination of electric input and gas input. But you could actually never use gas again if you don't drive more than 40 miles per day.

I worked with a guy the other day at a Chrysler plant who made an electric vehicle out of a 88 or 89 Ford Ranger. It gets 45 to 50 miles to the charge. I'm uploading pics to my Photobucket account and will post in a minute or two.


The Chevy Volt is a joke. For $40k GM could've a built a much better electric car.

They did it was called the EV-1


Not with the union costs they can't.

Truth sandwich.


At least with this one you can buy it and you don't have to give it back to Chevy for them to crush.

I couldn't believe they did that. What a sad day for GM.

[free1]

Super deals on solar panels, close to $1 a watt!
http://sunelec.com/

Check e-bay for the grid tie inverters for around $200. You can stack them and buy them as needed.

The idea of a grid tie inverter is to simply pump the solar panel / wind energy into the grid for use at your house. No messing with batteries, and your meter will run backwards which is sort of like a battery, then you can use that extra power as needed.

We are talking 2 wires here, (+) plus and (-) minus.

Not exactly rocket science. Plug the inverter into a standard outlet and you are making your own electricity.

Other energy saving suggestions:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=256732

[specsaregood]

You need to drive them. 250,000 miles is about the limit, then it's tranny and motor time. About the same percentage as the cost of batteries so I don't see the big difference.


And 250k.miles/10 years is about double the national average of miles driven per year on a vehicle.

And I've never gotten less than 250k miles out of a vehicle.

[free1]

And I've never gotten less than 250k miles out of a vehicle.
And $20,000+ donated to the oil companies each time.

The Nissan Leaf will be about $25,000

[specsaregood]

And $20,000+ donated to the oil companies each time.

Well about half goes for taxes.

[Razmear]

The first Aptera prototype hit the road in 2007:
http://www.aptera.com/details.php
It gets over 250mpg and is projected to cost under $30,000.
The hybrid version uses a small gas generator to power an electric drive motor.
It also looks very cool:
http://www.aptera.com/sites/default/files/noodle/drive_node_1.png
One interesting fact from one of their vids I saw a few years back, the windshield wipers on an average car create more wind resistance than the entire Aptera vehicle.
eb

http://www.aptera.com/sites/default/files/pics/Aptera%202e%20K.jpg

[free1]

Nissan Leaf, "after tax savings, net as low as $25,280"
Range –100 miles/charge based upon EPA LA4 test cycle
100% electric – no gasoline required
5 passengers, 5 doors
Posted estimated equivalent 367 mpg figure derived by using the Department of Energy formula
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/feature/pricing_information

Nissan says it will cost about $2.75 to charge the car, another way to say it is "fill the tank" for a 100 mile trip on 3 bucks!
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/list/charging

[virgil47]

A lot of ecological concerns are real, we don't want companies dumping toxic waste and things like that, but of course the politicians can go overboard sometimes.

I can agree with you completely on this statement.

[virgil47]

You need to drive them. 250,000 miles is about the limit, then it's tranny and motor time. About the same percentage as the cost of batteries so I don't see the big difference.

And the cost of the batteries will go down over time and their lifetime will only increase, solar will get cheaper, so it's a good choice to go electric.

You also need to calculate all the gas you will buy over those years, compared to the electric costs.

If you don't go more than about about 50 miles a day, it's all electric. And that will increase as they develop better technology over those 10 years. Trade in, trade up.

I also like the idea that all those short trips to the local store could be done without sending a dime to the oil companies, or IRAQ. Solar panels could provide enough for the house and the short trips.

And that the electric power will come from America.

Unfortunately you will not be allowed to charge your vehicle at home unless the gov. installs a charging station there because you will not be paying your highway taxes. The cost of electricity for use in vehicles will be substantially higher than the cost for home use. So while you are calculating the cost of gas over the life of the vehicle try to guess what the cost of electricity will be to refuel your electric vehicle. There are so many unknowns when it comes to electric vehicles that any statements made on the cost projection is totally unreliable. Without substantial provable savings the public simply won't buy into electric vehicle technology.

[free1]

Unfortunately you will not be allowed to charge your vehicle at home unless the gov. installs a charging station there because you will not be paying your highway taxes. The cost of electricity for use in vehicles will be substantially higher than the cost for home use. So while you are calculating the cost of gas over the life of the vehicle try to guess what the cost of electricity will be to refuel your electric vehicle. There are so many unknowns when it comes to electric vehicles that any statements made on the cost projection is totally unreliable. Without substantial provable savings the public simply won't buy into electric vehicle technology.
You are kidding right?

Are you quoting some sci-fi movie you watched?

$3 a "fill up" is not enough "substantial provable savings", the fact that you can generate your own power AT HOME with solar and wind isn't good enough?

And right now you pay for the power at the same rate as you do for your house. And you can have ANY normal, qualified electrician from the phone book install a plug if you don't already have one in your garage.

If the government tries to change those things they are going to have a pretty good fight on their hands.

Besides that, the government is giving big tax incentives for people to get these cars. WTF is that all about in your dream world?

What idiot would pay a higher KWH rate for power in their house just because they have an electric car?

Road taxes - tires.

Let's try this one - While you are calculating how wonderful your gas powered car is, the government WILL raise fuel taxes to pay the national debt, and gas prices will be X 4 in a year according to dictators that WILL appear right after we leave IRAQ.

How ridiculous is that?

Pessimistic much?

You don't like big oil, and yet you poo-poo technology that's right in your face that will help get rid of it.

You don't like pollution, yet the answer sits right there.

No, no - no one is going to get an electric car, it's too (insert some lame excuse here).

Yet, every time I go somewhere I see 3 or 4 Toyota ELECTRIC hybrid cars in the parking lot, just in the area I am walking through. And those people probably drove there without using a drop of gas.

[free1]

Here's what a Toyota Prius Hybrid looks like from the back, look for them the next time you are in a big parking lot. They are easy to spot once you know what they look like.

http://www.soultek.com/images/toyota_prius_hybrid_car_blue.jpg

Front

http://www.new-cars.com/2004/toyota/2004-toyota-prius.jpg

[Ninja Homer]

75 mpg home built hybrid from 1979 using WWII era technology: http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1979-07-01/Electric-Car-Conversion.aspx

Modern hybrids like the Prius are a joke.

[virgil47]

You are kidding right?

Are you quoting some sci-fi movie you watched?

$3 a "fill up" is not enough "substantial provable savings", the fact that you can generate your own power AT HOME with solar and wind isn't good enough?

And right now you pay for the power at the same rate as you do for your house. And you can have ANY normal, qualified electrician from the phone book install a plug if you don't already have one in your garage.

If the government tries to change those things they are going to have a pretty good fight on their hands.

Besides that, the government is giving big tax incentives for people to get these cars. WTF is that all about in your dream world?

What idiot would pay a higher KWH rate for power in their house just because they have an electric car?

Road taxes - tires.

Let's try this one - While you are calculating how wonderful your gas powered car is, the government WILL raise fuel taxes to pay the national debt, and gas prices will be X 4 in a year according to dictators that WILL appear right after we leave IRAQ.

How ridiculous is that?

Pessimistic much?

You don't like big oil, and yet you poo-poo technology that's right in your face that will help get rid of it.

You don't like pollution, yet the answer sits right there.

No, no - no one is going to get an electric car, it's too (insert some lame excuse here).

Yet, every time I go somewhere I see 3 or 4 Toyota ELECTRIC hybrid cars in the parking lot, just in the area I am walking through. And those people probably drove there without using a drop of gas.

Do you really think the gov. is not going to charge you a highway tax? The folks in Cali. that started using used grease and oil thought that as well until the state started sending out bills. It's hard to regulate used oil and grease but it is not difficult to regulate and meter electricity. Unless the gov. gets their tax up front as when you buy the vehicle by taxing you for the estimated mileage the vehicle will go in it's life time they will indeed require you to recharge your vehicle at a state approved and metered station. The gov. will allow no freebies. They want their pound of flesh.

[free1]

Check out the solar panel on top of this car
http://jalopnik.com/5058132/pininfarina-b0-electric-car-153-mile-range-80-mph-top-speed

Pininfarina B0 Electric Car: 153 Mile Range, 80 MPH Top Speed
they have received more than 6,000 orders for the Bluecar and that the debut of the new car is set for 2011

[free1]

Do you really think the gov. is not going to charge you a highway tax?
Keep living in that little imaginary pessimistic bubble of yours...

Examples: "Illinois, North Carolina, Texas, Rhode Island and Indiana have exempted drivers burning kitchen grease from paying such a tax (road tax)." -Los Angeles Times, May 6, 2008. --- NOTE 2008

The state of Texas extending biodiesel’s exemption for road tax to renewable diesel (2009)

By 2012, the program is estimated to cut petroleum use by up to 3.9 billion gallons and cut annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 13.1 million metric tons, the equivalent of removing 2.3 million cars from the road.

So are you saying you would just bend over and take it without a fight?

Road taxes are on tires still. And you still need tires.

Some States are considering, let me repeat, considering a per mile driven tax using GPS monitors, but think about how popular that would be to us freedom loving privacy concerned Ron Paul type of people.

Plus, I doubt they will jump on any crazy tax ideas after this November shows them who's in charge. They are already shaking in their boots!

People in general seem to want to move more towards zero emission vehicles, reducing big oil dependence, which would include electric cars, so they will make more incentives towards that, not things to discourage it, see the examples above.

[virgil47]

Keep living in that little imaginary pessimistic bubble of yours...

Examples: "Illinois, North Carolina, Texas, Rhode Island and Indiana have exempted drivers burning kitchen grease from paying such a tax (road tax)." -Los Angeles Times, May 6, 2008. --- NOTE 2008

The state of Texas extending biodiesel’s exemption for road tax to renewable diesel (2009)

By 2012, the program is estimated to cut petroleum use by up to 3.9 billion gallons and cut annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 13.1 million metric tons, the equivalent of removing 2.3 million cars from the road.

So are you saying you would just bend over and take it without a fight?

Road taxes are on tires still. And you still need tires.

Some States are considering, let me repeat, considering a per mile driven tax using GPS monitors, but think about how popular that would be to us freedom loving privacy concerned Ron Paul type of people.

Plus, I doubt they will jump on any crazy tax ideas after this November shows them who's in charge. They are already shaking in their boots!

People in general seem to want to move more towards zero emission vehicles, reducing big oil dependence, which would include electric cars, so they will make more incentives towards that, not things to discourage it, see the examples above.

Yep some states are offering bait to get folks to switch but the no tax scenario will rapidly come to a screeching halt once the gasoline stops flowing. You must remember that the U.S. gov. also charges a gasoline tax and believe me they will still want that income. Electric cars have several disadvantages over gasoline driven cars one being the lack of the ability to store fuel for a crisis. People in general are not dumb enough to buy into this "green" socialist movement that the progressives have been pushing. Oil independence is already possible if we drill for oil at home and only consume that oil.

[klamath]

What will kill the vehicle is government crash testing and safety features. The MPG is going to go way down when they have to start adding crumple zone materials, airbags, gas tank protection etc.

[Liberty4life]

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Geet/

YouTube - GEET LAWNMOWER WATER POWER HYBRID PART 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHg3nrJZQ1I)

The GEET Plasma-Vortex Engine: A Live Demonstration (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6849353333190625456#)