Is it legal for a college professor to require you to purchase their textbook?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I was told this by someone, but I can't find any hint of it on the internet.

[driege]

Why wouldn't it be legal? Unless by require you mean with a gun to your head.

[MikeStanart]

You signed up for their class, didn't you?

Tough. haha.

It goes with the territory. I actually had a prof do that but the class was literally created with the book in mind; so it actually worked quite well.

[oyarde]

Sadly , yes , most likely if it is used for part of the curriculum . Can you get a used one cheaper ?

[jsu718]

This is what your college library is for... or having roommates/friends that have the same class and sharing books. I have never seen a college prof actually check to see if you have purchased a book... and that is through two schools and two degrees.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I'm waiting to see if I actually need the book for course material, like a writing assignment for example. I only asked because one professor told me it indeed is illegal to profit from your class. (To be clear I meant require it as it will be a part of class you can't live without, not actually forcing you to buy it)

[legion]

If you plan on getting out of school any time soon, it's better to not fight the system when it comes to trifling issues.

Hang on the professors every word, memorize, memorize, regurgitate.

[WaltM]

no more than it's illegal for you to be required to attend class and pay your tuition.

you're not forced to stay in a class or pass the class, so do what you like.

you have no RIGHT to pass a class , nor are you entitled to be treated fairly by your teacher.

[WaltM]

I'm waiting to see if I actually need the book for course material, like a writing assignment for example. I only asked because one professor told me it indeed is illegal to profit from your class. (To be clear I meant require it as it will be a part of class you can't live without, not actually forcing you to buy it)

what that teacher said was, a teacher is not allowed to choose something for their own direct financial benefit.

a teacher shouldn't choose one textbook over another because he/she was paid to make that decision.

however, a teacher has every right to require you comply with his/her standards to obtain the grade you wish. and the book he/she chooses to use, can be obtained by any legal means.

it is of course, not always easy to see if a teacher is favoritist towards a certain book, but if it was found a teacher was compensated for a decision, that's illegal. if it was found a teacher directly sold a book to a student that's above market price, that's illegal.

I DO however, wish professors would work with students to ensure they get the best book for the best price.

[WaltM]

If you plan on getting out of school any time soon, it's better to not fight the system when it comes to trifling issues.

Hang on the professors every word, memorize, memorize, regurgitate.

yep!

if you can afford to fight, have fun. I think it's better to suck it up, get over it, and work for change later.

this is NOT to say you shouldn't know your rights and work to create change while you can, but don't argue or piss off teachers unless its necessary.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

yep!

if you can afford to fight, have fun. I think it's better to suck it up, get over it, and work for change later.

this is NOT to say you shouldn't know your rights and work to create change while you can, but don't argue or piss off teachers unless its necessary.

I'd only fight if I knew I had a legitimate reason. I honestly am tired of just dealing with it, I've dealt with lots of things, and then just more crap pops up. This is the same school trying to require me to take vaccines, and I won that fight.

[legion]

I'd only fight if I knew I had a legitimate reason. I honestly am tired of just dealing with it, I've dealt with lots of things, and then just more crap pops up. This is the same school trying to require me to take vaccines, and I won that fight.

Let me guess... you fought the bacterial meningitis vaccine? Doh.

[Dr.3D]

I've had several profs who wrote the book for the class, required the book for the class and charged around $100 for the book that was only around 150 pages, those pages were then placed in a three ring notebook the student had to purchase separately.

[Bruno]

College is a racket.

My third year German textbook was Hagar the Terrible, a friggin comic book. They would not let me test out of the class. It is all about the $$, not about educating students.

[oyarde]

Absolutely . I wish many more people understood that .

[WaltM]

I'd only fight if I knew I had a legitimate reason. I honestly am tired of just dealing with it, I've dealt with lots of things, and then just more crap pops up. This is the same school trying to require me to take vaccines, and I won that fight.

can you tell us how that goes?

is this a 4 year university?

[WaltM]

College is a racket.

My third year German textbook was Hagar the Terrible, a friggin comic book. They would not let me test out of the class. It is all about the $$, not about educating students.

College IS a racket, that is not to say there aren't people who came out educated.

Where do lawyers, doctors, and engineers come from? Oh nevermind, in your fantasyland they'll come from "free markets" , who needs them anyway?

[Bruno]

College IS a racket, that is not to say there aren't people who came out educated.

Where do lawyers, doctors, and engineers come from? Oh nevermind, in your fantasyland they'll come from "free markets" , who needs them anyway?

Nice distortion of my entire point, walt :rolleyes:

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Let me guess... you fought the bacterial meningitis vaccine? Doh.

No, 5 separate vaccines. My state is vaccine happy. They've tried making it mandatory for giving school children flu shots I believe. I'm not sure how that went, it's so hard to keep up with current events. Also, the meningitis vaccine is only required at my school if you live in dorms. I commute.


can you tell us how that goes?

is this a 4 year university?

Yes


You signed up for their class, didn't you?

Tough. haha.

It goes with the territory. I actually had a prof do that but the class was literally created with the book in mind; so it actually worked quite well.

I signed up for it because it's required of my major. I don't really have a problem with buying a book. But if the book is 110 dollars when every other book about the same subject is 40 dollars, and that coincidentally is written by my professor, I have a problem with that.

[phill4paul]

If you plan on getting out of school any time soon, it's better to not fight the system when it comes to trifling issues.

Hang on the professors every word, memorize, memorize, regurgitate.


yep!

if you can afford to fight, have fun. I think it's better to suck it up, get over it, and work for change later.

this is NOT to say you shouldn't know your rights and work to create change while you can, but don't argue or piss off teachers unless its necessary.

Either of these quotes depends on ones reason for going to college.

If it is to attain a degree, be vetted and obtain a license then follow this advise.

If you are going to college to LEARN something then go with what you feel you should do.

History is replete with individuals that challenged the established order and later went on to become teachers in there own right.

Good luck on whichever path you choose.:)

[legion]

College is a racket.

My third year German textbook was Hagar the Terrible, a friggin comic book. They would not let me test out of the class. It is all about the $$, not about educating students.

Perhaps you should have considered going to a better school or picking a better major at that school instead of condemning the whole system.

[WaltM]

Perhaps you should have considered going to a better school or picking a better major at that school instead of condemning the whole system.

that's what i said.

its pretty sad (childish is probably the appropriate word) that people take anecdotal, nearly isolated incidents and series of facts (unconnected to each other, and probably mutually exclusive) to fuel their anti-establishement agenda (as if they have a perfect alternative)

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

that's what i said.

its pretty sad (childish is probably the appropriate word) that people take anecdotal, nearly isolated incidents and series of facts (unconnected to each other, and probably mutually exclusive) to fuel their anti-establishement agenda (as if they have a perfect alternative)

College textbooks are a serious business. Especially when they try to push students to buy the newest editions, which are really just a few typo fixes and the rearrangement of chapters.

[oyarde]

College textbooks are a serious business. Especially when they try to push students to buy the newest editions, which are really just a few typo fixes and the rearrangement of chapters.

Serious business is right . You can go to your local chain bookstore and buy about anything for $20 . Everything required at school is 4 to 5 times that . Students need to help themselves out and seek used books .

[WaltM]

College textbooks are a serious business. Especially when they try to push students to buy the newest editions, which are really just a few typo fixes and the rearrangement of chapters.

I know, I've been there.

College textbooks, as an issue, no matter how bad, does not invalidate or dismiss the importance, usage, and credibility of the college school system as a whole.

(not saying you were doing so, just responding to Bruno & others)

[Dreamofunity]

One professor at my school uses The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal by Ayn Rand, and The Use of Knowledge in Society by Hayek for a class.

I'd gladly buy the text books that semester.

[low preference guy]

One professor at my school uses The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal by Ayn Rand, and The Use of Knowledge in Society by Hayek for a class.

I'd gladly buy the text books that semester.

what? where do you study?

[WaltM]

Serious business is right . You can go to your local chain bookstore and buy about anything for $20 . Everything required at school is 4 to 5 times that . Students need to help themselves out and seek used books .

not always that easy, but usually it is.

the sad thing is, every student will have an opportunity within the 4 years to be "unlucky" when it comes to them to buy the first new book. Both every other semester, you usually get to buy used.

in any case, I don't think anybody disagrees with me, that you have a right to not take the class, or wait until you can get your book for cheap or free to take the class (you can decide on your own what's more valuable, 4 months of school time, or $200)

the professor has every right to grade you as he/she wishes, provided he holds all students to the same standards, you have a lot of incentive not to piss a teacher off, and lots of incentive to be a teacher's friend (without kissing his ass)

I am NOT saying college textbooks are a non-issue, nor that by comparison, it's a smaller issue. It's an issue, I've dealt with it and I encourage everybody to seek out their options.

My recommendation, based on experience, is to ask the teacher upfront

a) do I need it? How much do I need it in terms of doing homework and passing the class

b) is it available at the library? I want to cooperate but am poor, are there options?

c) would you try to make some copies available in your office, or on reserve at the library if one were to donate a copy for you?

Most teachers are reasonable, some do not have time.

If worst comes, make friends. Team up with a good friend and split the cost, share it back and forth, do your homework together, take turns taking it home. Take the initiative to be the "good one" who brings it more, uses it on pace, and finishes on time.

Bookstores and publishers want to make money, but they can't keep selling it expensively if they're not selling.

[Fox McCloud]

there are some professors that will do this, once in a while; sometimes they'll do it and never use the book; in that case, I suspect its a way to artificially boost sales....either that, or the book was so terrible that s/he has so many sitting around that s/he's decided to push them onto the students.

[Natalie]

The teacher can't do anything to you if you don't buy the book. It's not like he will even know if you have the book or not, unless you guys are supposed to bring it to class or something.

Books are way cheaper if you order them online. Sometimes you can avoid buying the text book if you have really good notes. I did not buy the texts for either of my summer school classes because I didn't want to spend the money on them, and I did fine in the classes. I had to buy the texts for my classes this semester though.

[Dreamofunity]

what? where do you study?

Florida State Univerty.

Randall Holcombe is the professor, Market Ethics is the class.

(http://www.randallholcombe.com/courses/eco3933.pdf)

I have him for History of Economic Ideas right now, as he only teachers Market Ethics in the spring.

The first day of class he read out of Human Action, showed a model that shows inflation is a monetary phenomenon and not just a change in prices (when he could have used any example for explaining why we use models), and constantly bashes government intervention in the market making the case for a truly free-market.

He spoke at our YAL meeting too.

The guy is a regular badass (economically/libertarianally speaking), and one of the reasons I chose FSU (I had to choose a Florida school either way).

[low preference guy]

Florida State Univerty.

Randall Holcombe is the professor, Market Ethics is the class.

(http://www.randallholcombe.com/courses/eco3933.pdf)

I have him for History of Economic Ideas right now, as he only teachers Market Ethics in the spring.

The first day of class he read out of Human Action, showed a model that shows inflation is a monetary phenomenon and not just a change in prices (when he could have used any example for explaining why we use models), and constantly bashes government intervention in the market making the case for a truly free-market.

He spoke at our YAL meeting too.

The guy is a regular badass, and one of the reasons I chose FSU (I had to choose a Florida school either way).

wow. didn't know a class like that in an American college existed.

[Dreamofunity]

wow. didn't know a class like that in an American college existed.

Me either. I knew he leaned Austrian before I took his class, since he has some material up at Mises.org, but I never thought there would be a class that uses Rothbard's book as the text book.

Although in all his classes he requires a 20 page paper, which kind of sucks, but for History of Economic Ideas I get to write 20 pages on Mises.

I am excited for spring. Just looking through the Syllabus for Market Ethics:


A. Are there laws of social science? (Ludwig von Mises)

B. Does foreign aid help or harm recipients?

18. Is orderly anarchy feasible?

21. Taxation is theft.
C. Unethical for individuals; ethical for government?

[libertybrewcity]

My Hinduism teacher wrote our Hinduism textbook and many of the articles. It was only 30 bucks or something. You can usually buy it online for cheaper or sell it back at the end of the semester.

[Bruno]

Perhaps you should have considered going to a better school or picking a better major at that school instead of condemning the whole system.

Iowa State University is an accredited school. Yes, this was my experience.

I'll elaborate.

In my experience, college is a racket. Although I had a 3.64 and a 2 year degree, they made me take a whole class on one book, (ironically Don Quiote) to "prove that I could read and write English" though I had straight A's in comp classes and was a State of Iowa scholar.

Although I lived a year in Germany as a foreign exchange student, they would not let me pass out of any 3rd year German classes (I had passed 1st and 2nd year at Drake). Instead, they decided to hand me a comic book, claim this would educate me on German grammar, and make me pay for said education.

My personal experience was that college (Iowa State University) was a racket. They didn't care about my education, just getting me to pay for classes that I didn't need. And I experienced simliar issues with books that others have shared. I'm paying $50+ for beaten up book that is 8 years old? Or $150 for a text book? Or for the 2nd edition of a book because the professor wrote it and changed a chapter so that everyone has to buy the new version and the old one is outdated? C'mon.


that's what i said.

its pretty sad (childish is probably the appropriate word) that people take anecdotal, nearly isolated incidents and series of facts (unconnected to each other, and probably mutually exclusive) to fuel their anti-establishement agenda (as if they have a perfect alternative)

I care not what you think of me, Walt. Your should look within yourself a little more before you call others childish.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I was told this by someone, but I can't find any hint of it on the internet.

If money is the problem here's some advice. When I was in college I always bought the previous edition of the book on amazon for a few bucks, saved thousands.

If you go to college, it's their rules. I don't see the point in bucking the trend when you are paying for your own indoctrination. You would have a case if purchasing your education was mandatory.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

My recommendation, based on experience, is to ask the teacher upfront

a) do I need it? How much do I need it in terms of doing homework and passing the class

b) is it available at the library? I want to cooperate but am poor, are there options?

c) would you try to make some copies available in your office, or on reserve at the library if one were to donate a copy for you?

Most teachers are reasonable, some do not have time.

If worst comes, make friends. Team up with a good friend and split the cost, share it back and forth, do your homework together, take turns taking it home. Take the initiative to be the "good one" who brings it more, uses it on pace, and finishes on time.

Bookstores and publishers want to make money, but they can't keep selling it expensively if they're not selling.

Great advice, pretty much what I did.

Books are really small potatoes stuff to bitch about, hell I usually would take out 4-5 books per class just to get as much bang for my buck.

[WaltM]

Iowa State University is an accredited school. Yes, this was my experience.

I'll elaborate.

In my experience, college is a racket. Although I had a 3.64 and a 2 year degree, they made me take a whole class on one book, (ironically Don Quiote) to "prove that I could read and write English" though I had straight A's in comp classes and was a State of Iowa scholar.


many state schools are ineffecient in that way, hardly my first complaint about them.




Although I lived a year in Germany as a foreign exchange student, they would not let me pass out of any 3rd year German classes (I had passed 1st and 2nd year at Drake). Instead, they decided to hand me a comic book, claim this would educate me on German grammar, and make me pay for said education.


were you an in or out of state student?

while you DO pay your tuition, aren't most public school tuitions paid more by the taxpayer than the student?

of course, even if it were paid by taxpayers, it'd still be a racket, but I don't think it's right to say "they made you pay for it" when you're usually paying the smaller slice of the total.




My personal experience was that college (Iowa State University) was a racket. They didn't care about my education, just getting me to pay for classes that I didn't need. And I experienced simliar issues with books that others have shared. I'm paying $50+ for beaten up book that is 8 years old? Or $150 for a text book? Or for the 2nd edition of a book because the professor wrote it and changed a chapter so that everyone has to buy the new version and the old one is outdated? C'mon.


expensive yes, unnecessary, probably.

not to compare evils, but you know yourself, compared to tuition, living costs, $500 a semester in books hardly compares to $5k a semester in tuition or living.

this of course, is the common argument used to justify the high costs of books. I know that. But getting your books for free won't knock much off of your total costs of schooling (unless you're a penny pincher who eats fast food, which I am).




I care not what you think of me, Walt. Your should look within yourself a little more before you call others childish.

gladly.

[WaltM]

Great advice, pretty much what I did.

Books are really small potatoes stuff to bitch about, hell I usually would take out 4-5 books per class just to get as much bang for my buck.

very true.

it gets even funnier.

when I was in junior college, I was once mad when I heard a teacher say "This book for $45 is a BARGAIN, because we'll use every chapter of it!"

From a publishing, book buying perspective, the book was worth $20 max, and probably less after it's replace with a new edition. Was the information in there interesting? HELL YES (but so are many used books, books are very cheap these days if you know how to find the remainder and used market).

I found later, that I ONLY complained for pay $50 a class, $200 a semester in books, because tuition was cheap, and I lived at home. When I did go to a university where tuition was $5k a year, had to pay $500 in rent per month. Paying $500 a semester in books was a bargain, it's a matter of context and perspective.

I found that instead of worrying about $500 a semester, I'll learn to save it other places and get it over with. If I ever had to repeat a class or make up a grade, I'd be happy to pay another $1K for the lost time and effort, so why not do it ASAP?

[WaltM]

If money is the problem here's some advice. When I was in college I always bought the previous edition of the book on amazon for a few bucks, saved thousands.

If you go to college, it's their rules. I don't see the point in bucking the trend when you are paying for your own indoctrination. You would have a case if purchasing your education was mandatory.

you'll save the most money by actually not going to school.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

To the OP, go on the torrent sites and check out that huge book collections available for any given subject. I know the original subject is with regards to the professor's book, usually in house items, but you usually don't encounter them often.

The torrents are so extensive now, they include everything from HS physics all the way up to graduate level courses in general relativity. All within one monolithic torrent file. I got a ton of Austrian Economics books that way, print them out as booklets and read away.

[Bruno]

many state schools are ineffecient in that way, hardly my first complaint about them.




were you an in or out of state student?

while you DO pay your tuition, aren't most public school tuitions paid more by the taxpayer than the student?

of course, even if it were paid by taxpayers, it'd still be a racket, but I don't think it's right to say "they made you pay for it" when you're usually paying the smaller slice of the total. Regardless of how much of the pie I was paying for, they were unnessarily required- a pie that neither I nor other taxpayers needed to pay for.


expensive yes, unnecessary, probably.

not to compare evils, but you know yourself, compared to tuition, living costs, $500 a semester in books hardly compares to $5k a semester in tuition or living.

this of course, is the common argument used to justify the high costs of books. I know that. But getting your books for free won't knock much off of your total costs of schooling (unless you're a penny pincher who eats fast food, which I am).




gladly.

In-state tuition.

When I say, "they made me pay for it" I mean that they required payment for clases that were unjustifiable and unnecessary.


Imagine you were made to take a class on how to use the internet, and how to read and write english, both of which you obviously are already proficient. Would you be upset that you were paying for required classes that you didn't need, and wasting a semester of your time doing it, or would you be happy that you were only paying a smaller portion of the bill because taxpayers were picking up the rest of the tab?

[WaltM]

In-state tuition.

When I say, "they made me pay for it" I mean that they required payment for clases that were unjustifiable and unnecessary.


Imagine you were made to take a class on how to use the internet, and how to read and write english, both of which you obviously are already proficient. Would you be upset that you were paying for required classes that you didn't need, and wasting a semester of your time doing it, or would you be happy that you were only paying a smaller portion of the bill because taxpayers were picking up the rest of the tab?

i wouldn't be happy that I'm wasting the time, but if it was class so stupid and boring and unnecessary, it wouldn't be too wasteful of time either, i'd just squeeze it in when I have time, sit in, and do my homework, it's stupid and boring anyway. it's life, not all things go as you wish.