Have you read Osama Bin Laden's reasons for attacking us? [MUST READ]

[Matt Collins]

If not, you should. It is VERY eye opening!
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:



Here are a couple of brief excerpts that OBL wrote in his "Letter To America":

SOURCE: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver


As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:



(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.



a) You attacked us in Palestine:



(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily


(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.


(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.



(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;


(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.



(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.



(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.


(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.



(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.


(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.



(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.



(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.



(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.



(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!



(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:



(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.



(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.



(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.



(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.



(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.



(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

I was thinking of a way to remember 9/11 and I figured what better way than to try and understand why we were attacked. Getting this straight from the source seemed appropriate.

[Reason]

The problem is that when the average American reads something like this they don't have the education needed of the events referenced to understand how legitimate so many of the concerns listed really are.

[Ekrub]

No, that must have been his stunt double that wrote that. :rolleyes:

[Matt Collins]

The problem is that when the average American reads something like this they don't have the education needed of the events referenced to understand how legitimate so many of the concerns listed really are.
YouTube - Madeleine Albright Defends Mass-Murder of iraqi Children (500,000 Children dead) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo)

[Southron]

So on other words, he is just as immoral as the US government?

[TNforPaul45]

Osama Bin Laden is an CIA controlled (directly or indirectly) asset. Today we celebrate only self-immolation.

[Anti Federalist]

Osama Bin Laden is an CIA controlled (directly or indirectly) asset. Today we celebrate only self-immolation.

^^^ That.

[lucius]

Matt it is self-evident that you do not understand shit from shinola by posting this crap...my question, are you really that ignorant of Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden, the official fable jammed down our throats 24/7, ie. think 1984's Goldstein, or are you just another tool being used to pimp the liberty segment of the body politic? :mad:


If not, you should. It is VERY eye opening!
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:



Here are a couple of brief excerpts that OBL wrote in his "Letter To America":

SOURCE: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver



I was thinking of a way to remember 9/11 and I figured what better way than to try and understand why we were attacked. Getting this straight from the source seemed appropriate (this is how a tool would talk :rolleyes: :mad:) .

[PatriotOne]

I was thinking of a way to remember 9/11 and I figured what better way than to try and understand why we were attacked. Getting this straight from the source seemed appropriate.

How is a letter that was posted and circulated on the internet getting it straight from the source? There is absolutely no proof this was written by Bin Laden.

[Bergie Bergeron]

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

[Matt Collins]

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
Exactly, but that is not why he said he attacked us.

[Matt Collins]

How is a letter that was posted and circulated on the internet getting it straight from the source? There is absolutely no proof this was written by Bin Laden.If this were indeed "disninfo" don't you think it wouldn't be quite so "anti-American government"? Wouldn't it be more about jihad and sound like the official government line? :rolleyes:

[PatriotOne]

If this were indeed "disninfo" don't you think it wouldn't be quite so "anti-American government"? Wouldn't it be more about jihad and sound like the official government line? :rolleyes:

Justify it how ever you want, but in the end it is still just a letter posted on the internet that has never been proven to come from Bin Laden. Just because it fits your theory still doesn't make it a fact. Disinfo comes in many forms and is aimed at different audiences. This could quite well be aimed at higher levels that weren't willing to believe "they attacked us for our freedoms"

[Matt Collins]

Justify it how ever you want, but in the end it is still just a letter posted on the internet that has never been proven to come from Bin Laden. Just because it fits your theory still doesn't make it a fact. Disinfo comes in many forms and is aimed at different audiences. This could quite well be aimed at higher levels that weren't willing to believe "they attacked us for our freedoms"
Do you have evidence that it did NOT originate from OBL? :rolleyes:

[PatriotOne]

Do you have evidence that it did NOT originate from OBL? :rolleyes:

If that's your burden of proof standard then you are a propagandist's wet dream. I'm satisfied that you have been reduced to a retort most would expect from a 10 year old.

[Ekrub]

Justify it how ever you want, but in the end it is still just a letter posted on the internet that has never been proven to come from Bin Laden. Just because it fits your theory still doesn't make it a fact. Disinfo comes in many forms and is aimed at different audiences. This could quite well be aimed at higher levels that weren't willing to believe "they attacked us for our freedoms"

That is the criteria for "proof" that most 9/11 truthers use.

[PatriotOne]

That is the criteria for "proof" that most 9/11 truthers use.

What letter? Link please.

[Ekrub]

What letter? Link please.

I'm not talking about any one letter, just that "proof" is some website written by some "expert" and it is treated by conspiracy theorists as if it is their Bible.

You said it yourself:


Disinfo comes in many forms and is aimed at different audiences.

[PatriotOne]

I'm not talking about any one letter, just that "proof" is some website written by some "expert" and it is treated by conspiracy theorists as if it is their Bible.

Then say what you mean instead of accusing truthers of relying on a letter posted on the internet. A couple more questions:

Do you know most truthers?
Have you had conversations with them all so that I can rely on your reiterations of what they base their facts on?
What website are you referring to above?
What expert are you referring to above?

[Jace]

..

[sofia]

I'm not talking about any one letter, just that "proof" is some website written by some "expert" and it is treated by conspiracy theorists as if it is their Bible.

You said it yourself:

Tell me...where did u get your information that 911 was the work of Muslims?

Did you figure that out for yourself?...HELL NO>>

You swallowed the crap fed to you by "experts" on the TV......

[PatriotOne]

Tell me...where did u get your information that 911 was the work of Muslims?

Did you figure that out for yourself?...HELL NO>>

You swallowed the crap fed to you by "experts" on the TV......

I think I already ran him/her off. He/she just left the Pavlov dog conditioned response and slobbered a bit (truthers are stupid) but left when I questioned his slobbering.

[coastie]

These letters, as well as others, are covered in depth in at least two of Mike Sheurer's books.

Is the former head of the unit responsible for tracking bin laden lying, as implied by some of you here about this letter? this isnt something new, and there's a mountain of other similar statements from bin laden...

[PatriotOne]

These letters, as well as others, are covered in depth in at least two of Mike Sheurer's books.

Is the former head of the unit responsible for tracking bin laden lying, as implied by some of you here about this letter? this isnt something new, and there's a mountain of other similar statements from bin laden...

Frankly, since Sheurer thinks Bin Laden did 9/11, then I have no use for his book or analysis of anything.

[Jace]

..

[coastie]

Whether he did it or not isn't the point here....And no, I dont see the evidence bin laden did it either

9/11 hasn't been the only terrorist attack, and there is ample evidence he was responsible for numerous other attacks in the world(by his own admission), which still make's Mike's analysis relevant.

[coastie]

Scheuer makes a lot of good points, but he is not right on everything. He failed spectacularly in his efforts to find Osama bin Laden, even with the immense resources of the American government behind him.

Scheuer was obviously looking in the wrong places, chasing a ghost that seems only to exist on our television screens and on the Internet, with multiple shapes and faces, appearing now and again when Americans need a little more motivation for the war on terror.


If you read the books, you would see that it was the people above him that failed, not his unit. They had reliable intelligence several times of his location, and Clinton(and Bush, i believe at least once)-failed to act on it.

[KurtBoyer25L]

I agree that the burden of proof here is on Mr. Collins, but I think ultimately the thoughts and feelings of one Osama Bin Laden or other militant Islamists is a secondary concern for the U.S. in determining our policy. Our goal should not be to pacify Bin Laden or pacify militant exceptionalists in our society, but simply to do what is right. It's wrong to starve children even if their parents hate you; it's wrong to start a war even if the other side wants you to.

[malkusm]

How is a letter that was posted and circulated on the internet getting it straight from the source? There is absolutely no proof this was written by Bin Laden.

I'm pretty sure that the reference for this particular speech is listed in "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Scheuer. I'd look it up myself, but I've had 12 beers, and you shouldn't trust anything I say, source or no source.

[PatriotOne]

If you read the books, you would see that it was the people above him that failed, not his unit. They had reliable intelligence several times of his location, and Clinton(and Bush, i believe at least once)-failed to act on it.

They didn't FAIL to act on it. They protected their boogeyman. Until people realize this they will never have a good understanding of what is really happening.

[awake]

“Our enemies . . . can’t stand what America stands for. It must bother them
greatly to know we’re such a free and wonderful place. . . . It must grate
on them greatly.” G.W. Bush

[PatriotOne]

I'm pretty sure that the reference for this particular speech is listed in "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Scheuer. I'd look it up myself, but I've had 12 beers, and you shouldn't trust anything I say, source or no source.

But it started as a letter posted on the internet and was never proven to be from OBL. Doesn't stop people from referencing it though if it fits their theories.

Osama issues new call to arms

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/alqaida.terrorism

Although there is no way to confirm the authenticity of the letter beyond all doubt, senior Arab journalists in the Middle Eastern media believe the letter is from bin Laden. 'It is an extraordinary glimpse into his mind,' one told The Observer.

[Matt Collins]

Yall do realize that Ron often times cites Osama's writings, right?





YouTube - Ron Paul on CNN - Osama Bin Laden, Obama, The Economy - 01-27-09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35mq_uaU7VQ)

[Ekrub]

I think I already ran him/her off. He/she just left the Pavlov dog conditioned response and slobbered a bit (truthers are stupid) but left when I questioned his slobbering.

I understand your emotional investment in conspiracy theories and that you like to feel "enlightened." There is overwhelming evidence that al-Qaeda comitted the attacks. Why don't you tell me what YOU believe.

[Jace]

..

[Ekrub]

I think I already ran him/her off. He/she just left the Pavlov dog conditioned response and slobbered a bit (truthers are stupid) but left when I questioned his slobbering.

I understand your emotional investment in conspiracy theories and that you like to feel "enlightened." There is overwhelming evidence that al-Qaeda comitted the attacks. Why don't you tell me what YOU believe.

[PatriotOne]

I understand your emotional investment in conspiracy theories and that you like to feel "enlightened." Why don't you tell me what YOU believe.

So instead of giving me specifics of the statement you made you have assumed the role of my psychiatrist?

In other words you got no game and just want to change the subject.


There is overwhelming evidence that al-Qaeda comitted the attacks.

The investigators don't even beleve the official story. Why would you?


9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ."

9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"

Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up".

The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission, who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

[PatriotOne]

Yall do realize that Ron often times cites Osama's writings, right?

YouTube - Ron Paul on CNN - Osama Bin Laden, Obama, The Economy - 01-27-09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35mq_uaU7VQ)

I'm sure he cites the bible on occasion also. Would that change you into a Christian?

[PatriotOne]

Exactly.

If Scheuer had actionable intelligence that Clinton and Bush failed to act on, why wouldn't they act on it? What is the reasoning? It only makes sense if they don't actually intend to capture Osama bin Laden, whoever it is that is calling himself that name these days.

The CIA failed to stop 9/11 and they have failed to capture Osama bin Laden. They told us that there were WMDs in Iraq which was a spectacular failure that resulted in war that killed off 4,000 Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis while costing us hundreds of billions of dollars. Is the CIA the most incompetent organization in the history of the world, or is there something else going on here?

Look at that Adam Gadahn guy. He's a fat Jewish kid from LA with ties to the ADL and he can infiltrate Al Qaeda and become one of its top leaders? And the CIA can't find this person? The CIA, with all its billions, cannot infiltrate Al Qaeda, but a Jewish American kid can just join up and make terrorist videos and hang out with bin Laden? Gadahn's videos are inflammatory and justify an American war in the Middle East, while convincingly making the case for the average American that Israel and America are under attack from the same ruthless enemies.

Funny how that works.

Talk about having a big tent! Al Qaeda even allows Jewish ADL peeps to join the cause. Hahahahahaha What a crock. That poor kid had MK Ultra victim written all over him.

[Matt Collins]

I'm sure he [Ron]cites the bible on occasion also. Would that change you into a Christian?
I don't understand your point?

[angelatc]

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.


Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . Quran 2.62

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. Quran 29:46

[PatriotOne]

I don't understand your point?

Would RP citing a verse in the bible prove to you it was inspired by God? I would say not. So why would you try to prove the so-called OBL letters authenticity by saying RP quotes from it?

[angelatc]

Scheuer makes a lot of good points, but he is not right on everything. He failed spectacularly in his efforts to find Osama bin Laden, even with the immense resources of the American government behind him.
.

During Clinton's tenure, when Scheuer was in charge, they pinpointed OBL's exact location at least twice, but Clinton refused to approve the strike.

[low preference guy]

During Clinton's tenure, when Scheuer was in charge, they pinpointed OBL's exact location at least twice, but Clinton refused to approve the strike.

Ron Paul would probably have not approved it either.

[Matt Collins]

Would RP citing a verse in the bible prove to you it was inspired by God? I would say not. So why would you try to prove the so-called OBL letters authenticity by saying RP quotes from it?Why would Ron cite something that he would think is false? This makes no sense. :confused:


So you are saying that Ron is wrong? :rolleyes:

[Dianne]

Plus he's dead, and Bhutto, Benazir, 1953–2007, prime minister of Pakistan even told us who killed him in her interview with David Frost (just days before her death, convenient, right?)

YouTube - bin Laden's Dead.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zQ0G_K_tss)

This video becomes harder and harder to get, so be sure you save it. Even search for the expanded version showing that David Frost never blinks an eye at the Prime Minister's comments regarding OBL.

[Sands2]

If Native Americans started killing us it would be justified.

Right?

We have killed many more Native Americans than Joos have killed Arabs.

We have occupied a larger area for much longer.

[low preference guy]

If Native Americans started killing us it would be justified.

Right?

We have killed many more Native Americans than Joos have killed Arabs.

We have occupied a larger area for much longer.

You have killed Native Americans? You should go to jail.

[Indy Vidual]

YouTube - Madeleine Albright Defends Mass-Murder of iraqi Children (500,000 Children dead) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo)

+/- 1984 :eek:

[Sands2]

Osama said in the PBS interview that he was after us for putting US troops on Holy Land ( Saudi Arabia).


".. What is the meaning of your call for Muslims to take arms against America in particular, and what is the message that you wish to send to the West in general?

The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target. And not exempt of responsibility are those Western regimes whose presence in the region offers support to the American troops there. We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ..."
<p>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

[Sands2]

You have killed Native Americans? You should go to jail.
<p>
Any on one on their soil, is an accessory after the fact.

[Sands2]

Describe the situation when your men took down the American forces in Somalia.

After our victory in Afghanistan and the defeat of the oppressors who had killed millions of Muslims, the legend about the invincibility of the superpowers vanished.

Our boys no longer viewed America as a superpower. So, when they left Afghanistan, they went to Somalia and prepared themselves carefully for a long war.

They had thought that the Americans were like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world. ...

As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger.

He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled, and America had to stop all its bragging and all that noise it was making in the press after the Gulf War in which it destroyed the infrastructure and the milk and dairy industry that was vital for the infants and the children and the civilians and blew up dams which were necessary for the crops people grew to feed their families.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

[malkusm]

From Imperial Hubris:


To recognize the validity of this point, always keep in mind how easy it is for Muslims to see, hear, experience, and hate the six U.S. policies bin Laden repeatedly refers to as anti-Muslim:


U.S. support for Israel that keeps Palestinians in the Israelis' thrall.
U.S. and other Western troops on the Arabian peninsula.
U.S. occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
U.S. support for Russia, India, and China against their Muslim militants.
U.S. pressure on Arab energy producers to keep oil prices low.
U.S. support for apostate, corrupt, and tyrannical Muslim governments.

[Jace]

..

[angelatc]

Ron Paul would probably have not approved it either.

But that was in response to the allegation that Scheuer had failed in locating Bin Laden.

And remember Bin Laden was behind the first bombing of the towers, too. I think that there is a chance that Paul would have signed off on such a mission, in the form of a "Letter of Marque And Reprisal."

[PatriotOne]

Osama said in the PBS interview that he was after us for putting US troops on Holy Land ( Saudi Arabia).


".. What is the meaning of your call for Muslims to take arms against America in particular, and what is the message that you wish to send to the West in general?

The call to wage war against America was made because America has spear-headed the crusade against the Islamic nation, sending tens of thousands of its troops to the land of the two Holy Mosques over and above its meddling in its affairs and its politics, and its support of the oppressive, corrupt and tyrannical regime that is in control. These are the reasons behind the singling out of America as a target. And not exempt of responsibility are those Western regimes whose presence in the region offers support to the American troops there. We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region. ... Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ..."
<p>
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html


The world's most wanted man giving a casual interview to an ABC reporter. Nothing odd with that.

You have been described as the world's most wanted man, and there is word that the American government intends to put a price on your head - in the millions - when you are captured. Do you think they will do that? And does it bother you?

[freshjiva]

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.


This raises a doubt in my mind. The part about Indian oppression of Kashmir, particularly. Being an Indian American, and somewhat well tuned to the conflict surrounding Kashmir, I may be beginning to see that not all of Osama bin Laden's gripes against the United States are really as reasoned as we here would think.

India has no record of any oppression of Kashmiris. It is an official state of India, with Srinagar its biggest commercial city and it is well connected by rail and road to New Delhi.

The state was originally a royal province that patronized the Kashmiri Pundits, a class of wealthy Hindu scholars, poets, writers, and philosophers. Kashmir has a long history of being a haven for both Hindu and Buddhist thought, extending back to the time of India's Golden Age under the Mauryan Empire.

For Osama bin Laden calling Kashmiris being oppressed by India is a gross distortion of history, because Muslims began violently invading those lands in the 15th century, millennia after it was settled by Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs.

But besides all that, when did the United States ever back India in the Kashmir conflict? If anything, the US has been supplying monetary aid and equipment to Pakistan!

If bin Laden's Kashmir example doesn't hold any real ground, I wonder what else might not either...

[Jace]

..

[Pericles]

This raises a doubt in my mind. The part about Indian oppression of Kashmir, particularly. Being an Indian American, and somewhat well tuned to the conflict surrounding Kashmir, I may be beginning to see that not all of Osama bin Laden's gripes against the United States are really as reasoned as we here would think.

India has no record of any oppression of Kashmiris. It is an official state of India, with Srinagar its biggest commercial city and it is well connected by rail and road to New Delhi.

The state was originally a royal province that patronized the Kashmiri Pundits, a class of wealthy Hindu scholars, poets, writers, and philosophers. Kashmir has a long history of being a haven for both Hindu and Buddhist thought, extending back to the time of India's Golden Age under the Mauryan Empire.

For Osama bin Laden calling Kashmiris being oppressed by India is a gross distortion of history, because Muslims began violently invading those lands in the 15th century, millennia after it was settled by Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs.

But besides all that, when did the United States ever back India in the Kashmir conflict? If anything, the US has been supplying monetary aid and equipment to Pakistan!

If bin Laden's Kashmir example doesn't hold any real ground, I wonder what else might not either...

Exactly - let's say that everything in the letter is true just for the sake of argument there is a legit beef with the USA.

Does that justify the murder of anyone found with the territorial limits of the USA because they failed to stop those policies?

Or, another way of looking at the problem, what has Sweden done to deserve this:
YouTube - Sweden is being destroyed. A low intensity civil war has already started. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QILt8mnZnMs&feature=related)

[angelatc]

This raises a doubt in my mind. The part about Indian oppression of Kashmir, particularly. Being an Indian American, and somewhat well tuned to the conflict surrounding Kashmir, I may be beginning to see that not all of Osama bin Laden's gripes against the United States are really as reasoned as we here would think.

India has no record of any oppression of Kashmiris. It is an official state of India, with Srinagar its biggest commercial city and it is well connected by rail and road to New Delhi.

The state was originally a royal province that patronized the Kashmiri Pundits, a class of wealthy Hindu scholars, poets, writers, and philosophers. Kashmir has a long history of being a haven for both Hindu and Buddhist thought, extending back to the time of India's Golden Age under the Mauryan Empire.

For Osama bin Laden calling Kashmiris being oppressed by India is a gross distortion of history, because Muslims began violently invading those lands in the 15th century, millennia after it was settled by Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs.

If bin Laden's Kashmir example doesn't hold any real ground, I wonder what else might not either...

Kashmir is a hotly disputed territory, with 3 different religions (Islam, Buddhism, and Hindu) each holding a majority in the 3 different sections of it, not exactly what your phrase "an official state of India" implies. Pakistan got nuclear weapons as a result of the war over Kashmir, part of which involves a dispute over where the boundaries were actually drawn. (The thinking was that if they didn't get them, India was going to nuke Pakistan.)

I'm not saying that India should give away a piece of her land, but both countries (as well as Bin Laden) are quite adept at using Kashmir as a pawn in a political game.

[susano]

I understand your emotional investment in conspiracy theories and that you like to feel "enlightened." There is overwhelming evidence that al-Qaeda comitted the attacks. Why don't you tell me what YOU believe.

What evidence? The Dancing Israelis? The 60 some Mossad agents deported right after 9/11? Oh, wait, Mossad is Israel, not Al Qaeda.



Daily UMMAT: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?

USAMA BIN LADEN: In the name of Allah (God), the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the Earth as an abode for peace, for the whole humankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad (saw) for our guidance. I am thankful to The Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and momin (true Muslim) people of Pakistan who refused to believe the lies of the demon (Pakistani military dictator General Pervez Musharraf).

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel. There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya and Bosnia? Only one conclusion could be derived from the indifference of the United States and the West to these acts of terror and the patronage of the tyrants by these powers that America is an anti Islamic power and it is patronizing the anti-Islamic forces. Its friendship with the Muslim countries is just a show, rather deceit. By enticing or intimidating these countries, the United States is forcing them to play a role of its choice. Put a glance all around and you will see that the slaves of the United States are either rulers or enemies of Muslims.

The U.S. has no friends, nor does it want to keep any because the prerequisite of friendship is to come to the level of the friend or consider him at par with you. America does not want to see anyone equal to it. It expects slavery from others. Therefore, other countries are either its slaves or subordinates. However, our case is different. We have pledged slavery to God Almighty alone and after this pledge there is no possibility to become the slave of someone else. If we do that it will be disregardful to both our Sustainer and his fellow beings. Most of the world nations upholding their freedom are the religious ones, which are the enemies of the United States, or the U.S. itself considers them as its enemies.

The countries which do not agree to become the U.S. slaves are China, Iran, Libya, Cuba, Syria [Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia] and Russia. Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive. They can be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the U.S. itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups, which are capable of causing a large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.

Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat. In the same way, whether it is President Bush or any other U.S. President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.

http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

[freshjiva]

Kashmir is a hotly disputed territory, with 3 different religions (Islam, Buddhism, and Hindu) each holding a majority in the 3 different sections of it, not exactly what your phrase "an official state of India" implies. Pakistan got nuclear weapons as a result of the war over Kashmir, part of which involves a dispute over where the boundaries were actually drawn. (The thinking was that if they didn't get them, India was going to nuke Pakistan.)

I'm not saying that India should give away a piece of her land, but both countries (as well as Bin Laden) are quite adept at using Kashmir as a pawn in a political game.

What is disputed is who the entire region of Kashmir belongs to. In terms of official administration, however, the boundaries are clearly defined today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Kashmir_map.svg/764px-Kashmir_map.svg.png

Jammu and Kashmir (shown in blue above) is an official incorporated state of India, administered by India, and whose citizens are Indian. Then there are the Northern Areas, shown in green above, which is operated and controlled by Pakistani administrators.

Kashmiris, and many activists on both Indian and Pakistani sides, however, are divided in who they feel the region rightfully belongs to. Some want the entire region to join Pakistan, some want to remain as India, and others want complete autonomy. Most of the population of Kashmir, however, is Muslim, so they feel like Pakistan should annex that entire region. India, of course, will not allow this, because they feel Kashmir has always been a part of the traditional India, pre-Islamic conquest.

[Jace]

..

[jake]

So Matt, you want us to take our marching orders from Osama Bin Laden?!? FOR SHAME! :D