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dean.engelhardt
09-11-2010, 09:09 AM
I know there are many of Republican party supports here, and their hearts are in the right place. I never have been able to communicate why I won't blindly support the party. Then I got this email from the LP and they pretty much nailed it.


September 10, 2010

Contact: Wes Benedict, Executive Director
E-mail: wes.benedict@lp.org
Phone: 202-333-0008 ext. 222

Libertarians issue warning to Tea Partiers

WASHINGTON - Looking toward the 9/12 Tea Party events in Washington, DC, Libertarian Party executive director Wes Benedict issued the following warning to Tea Partiers: "Republicans are trying to fool you again."

"There are two kinds of Tea Partiers," said Benedict. "One kind is so blinded by its hatred of Obama and Democrats that it cannot see fault with Republicans. It's the other kind the Libertarian Party is reaching out to."

Libertarian Party staff and volunteers will participate in the Washington, DC Tea Party events on September 12. They will distribute flyers pointing out how the Top 10 Disasters of the 2009-2010 Obama administration mirror the Top 10 Disasters of the 2001-2008 Bush administration.

Benedict continued, "Libertarians have much in common with Tea Party goals of reducing government spending and taxes. While many Tea Party supporters will admit that George W. Bush's administration grew government, Libertarians want to remind Tea Partiers about previous Republican administrations that loved big government.

"Republican Newt Gingrich and the Contract with America promised to eliminate the Departments of Education and Energy. Yet once Republicans took control of Congress, they failed even to reduce the spending on those departments.

"Republican President George Bush, Sr. remains famous for coining the phrase 'Read my lips, no new taxes,' and then raising taxes.

"Republican President Ronald Reagan grew federal government spending to the highest level it had reached since World War II. He also 'saved Social Security' by raising payroll taxes.

"Republican presidential candidate Bob Dole was a huge supporter of taxpayer subsidies for corn and ethanol.

"In 1971, Republican President Richard Nixon instituted wage and price controls. That made a group of free-market supporters so angry that they decided to form the Libertarian Party.

"Republicans seem to think we're idiots. For decades they have paid lip-service to shrinking government, while consistently doing the opposite in office.

"Our fear is that Tea Partiers might say 'This time it will be different.' No it won't. If you vote for Republicans this time, it will just reinforce the message that they can lie to you and grow government with impunity.

"Current Republicans are just as bad as past Republicans.

"This year, Libertarian Party co-founder David Nolan is running for U.S. Senate against Republican John McCain, who famously suspended his 2008 presidential campaign so he could rush back to Washington to bail out the banks.

"Republican leader John Boehner might end up as the next House Speaker, and he voted for George W. Bush's huge 2003 Medicare expansion.

"John Cornyn, Republican senator from Texas, and current chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, voted for the TARP bailouts.

"Ron Paul is probably the only Republican congressman willing to point out the huge cost of America's foreign wars and empire building. Other Republicans pretend that spending trillions on the military just doesn't count as big government.

"With Social Security, Medicare, and military spending making up the vast majority of federal spending, you can't cut significantly without cutting those. But Republicans refuse to touch them.

"Libertarians welcome the Tea Party movement's focus on the problem of government growth. However, we are concerned that Tea Partiers might fall for the Republicans' trickery.

"Republican leaders have brought up distractions like New York City mosques and gay marriage to distract voters from Republicans' big-government track record. We hope that Tea Partiers will see through the smoke and mirrors.

"While our nation is declining dangerously right now, a turnaround could be straightforward and simple with Libertarian steps like these: 1. Bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan; 2. Stop rewarding failed companies with bailouts; 3. Cut taxes and spending and let the free market work.

"The Libertarian Party is fielding 168 candidates for U.S. House, and 20 candidates for U.S. Senate this year. Win or lose, a vote for a Libertarian sends a clear message for smaller government and more freedom. What message does a vote for John McCain send?"

specsaregood
09-11-2010, 09:14 AM
I know there are many of Republican party supports here, and their hearts are in the right place. I never have been able to communicate why I won't blindly support the party. Then I got this email from the LP and they pretty much nailed it.

How many here blindly support the Republican party? Not many(any?) that I recall. Also, your comment seems to imply that you are willing to blindly support the LP, is that the case?

I care little what party banner a candidate runs under, I care about the candidate's character and positions.

As far as that email is concerned, hell yeah support the LP candidate over Mccain, but then again I'm not fond of throwing away my money when there are good liberty candidates running under the Republican banner with good chances of winning if they get monetary support.

MRoCkEd
09-11-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm an (R) because it gives me a say in the primaries; it allowed me to vote for Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. Furthermore, whether you like it or not we have a two-party system and it needs to be utilized in order to affect change from within, which can be done through the delegate and party platform processes. It doesn't stop me from voting LP in the general election when both parties' candidates suck.

angelatc
09-11-2010, 09:22 AM
I got a message from Ron Paul telling me to work within his party.


The Libertarian candidate against McCain could prove a spoiler if he had a war chest. GOP blogger RS McCain is trying to give him a boost - http://theothermccain.com/2010/08/26/the-21-million-arizona-sell-out/

sailingaway
09-11-2010, 09:30 AM
I'm still an (R) because we can elect candidates. I do not 'blindly follow the party' by any means, and would vote for a Libertarian, or any other party if it were better and any of:

a) they might win

b) I was actually offended by the choices between D and R (I'm pretty close to there on the CA governor ballot this year and still don't know how I'll vote.); or

c) they are truly great, inspiring candidates.

I can see no reason to vote for a failed R party hack like Barr instead of a failed party hack like McCain. However, I wrote in Ron Paul in Ca where I had that option.

On top of the above, I have a reason I'm not an 'L', having looked into it years ago -- drugs are not my primary issue and while I'm for legalization of marijuana, someone who runs with that as their primary issue with little to say on other issues doesn't seem like a serious candidate to me. I'm speaking specifically of an election a decade ago when I looked up a couple of Libertarian candidates, liking the SOUND of the philosophy and found nothing on their web pages about economic or other policy, all about drugs. It did color the party for me. I now know better, but it is no less spotty as to candidates than the GOP, to my mind. Part of that is that they have to have people run to keep ballot access, and I understand that pressure, but .....

I'm open to voting for Libertarian candidates who are good candidates, but the two party system being what it is, I think Ron is right that the best way to create change is by working within the GOP. I do think ballot access and debate access rules need to change, however. I don't LIKE the fact of the two party duopoly.

specsaregood
09-11-2010, 09:45 AM
I'm open to voting for Libertarian candidates who are good candidates, but the two party system being what it is, I think Ron is right that the best way to create change is by working within the GOP. I do think ballot access and debate access rules need to change, however. I don't LIKE the fact of the two party duopoly.

From what I've been seeing I think the CP has a greater chance of making inroads and becoming a viable 3rd party -- even if those chances are remote.

Assuming their isn't a liberty candidate on the ballot running under the rep or dem banners, I go in voting preference order of: CP, LP, GP, Rep., Dem.

pcosmar
09-11-2010, 09:47 AM
I am an Independent, and don't follow any party line.
I have often voted (R), but have been neo-Conned in the past, so I am quite cautious.

I hope Ron decides to run again. He has become much better known since the last time.

it is not about party. It is about principal.

btw, Michigan is an Open Primary State.
:cool:

Kregisen
09-11-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm an (R) because it gives me a say in the primaries; it allowed me to vote for Ron Paul and Peter Schiff. Furthermore, whether you like it or not we have a two-party system and it needs to be utilized in order to affect change from within, which can be done through the delegate and party platform processes. It doesn't stop me from voting LP in the general election when both parties' candidates suck.

Exactly. I'm an R so I can vote in the primaries and TRY to change the republican party....but when we fail and a bad candidate wins the nomination, I'll vote libertarian.

Ekrub
09-11-2010, 11:19 AM
I find the CP and LP to be more in line with my beliefs, but they have no real chance. Voting for liberty Republican (Or Democrat) candidates gives you way more of a chance of getting a candidate in the general. Hell, look at Alvin Greene, my man on the scene. Just by putting a (D) next to his name he got the Democratic Senate nomination.

TCE
09-11-2010, 12:51 PM
Nolan will get crushed and he'll look like a complete and total fool for even attempting to challenge McCain. The LP has no use and it will never be a viable party if it keeps up its pointless shenanigans. I vote for LP candidates when there is no good R or D alternative, which in my state is often, but I know they'll never stand a chance because the organization is terrible. I wonder how many more decades it'll take them to realize going local is their best chance to rise through the ranks.

libertarian4321
09-12-2010, 08:35 PM
Those are a few of the many reasons I am no longer a Republican.

SevenEyedJeff
09-12-2010, 09:16 PM
Exactly. I'm an R so I can vote in the primaries and TRY to change the republican party....but when we fail and a bad candidate wins the nomination, I'll vote libertarian.

^^This. But beware of the libertarian candidate also. Remember Bob Barf? Would have voted CP last time but NO third party was on my ballot in this state! No write-ins allowed either! :o Had choice of :McCain, and Obama. I left it blank. I had to suppress the urge to rip up my ballot in front of the election staff present, but then I would have had no say in the state and US races either. (Not that anything real great was available there either, the main one was a house race between a democrat, and a republican that voted for the bailout LOL.)

Wish we had more parties on our ballots in OK, back when I lived in MN they had 12 choices for President and multiple parties in the other races too. I have written my Congressmen but nothing ever changes. Ho hum.

wormyguy
09-12-2010, 09:20 PM
I'm not an (R), or an (L) for that matter, because MA has semi-open primaries such that unaffiliated voters can vote in either one.

TCE
09-12-2010, 09:25 PM
^^This. But beware of the libertarian candidate also. Remember Bob Barf? Would have voted CP last time but NO third party was on my ballot in this state! No write-ins allowed either! :o Had choice of :McCain, and Obama. I left it blank. I had to suppress the urge to rip up my ballot in front of the election staff present, but then I would have had no say in the state and US races either. (Not that anything real great was available there either, the main one was a house race between a democrat, and a republican that voted for the bailout LOL.)

Wish we had more parties on our ballots in OK, back when I lived in MN they had 12 choices for President and multiple parties in the other races too. I have written my Congressmen but nothing ever changes. Ho hum.

Actually, your State Representative can help regarding ballot access, your Congressman can't help.

susano
09-12-2010, 09:56 PM
I became an (R) delegate because the C4L asked me to. Went to the state convention where the establishment is very entrenched. I'll continue to participate on that level but I'm going to focus my attention even more locally. Someone I know who is an expert in common law told me the three most important offices are sheriff, district attorney and registrar of deeds. Those are the three offices needed to take back govt at the county level

I'm of the opinion that president is a selected not elected office. All my votes are mere protest votes. It's hopeless.

Libertarians are not fully in line with the constitution, which is where I am. As long as we have a government, I want that.

Interesting that the letter didn't mention abolishing the Fed. For me, that is the number one issue.