What pastor Jones should do

[wizardwatson]

It's a long shot that he would do this but one can hope.

He should take this opportunity to show what hypocrites these demagogues are and say, "Yeah, we're not going to burn Koran's we just wanted to show how upset the world would get over something so small while great tragedies are occurring even now that no one is paying attention to."

That would be a great kick in the nads to all this "high horse" posturing being done from the lowest of douchebags, to the highest of douchebags like the prez.

Take this snippet that Obama said (article here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/09/AR2010090901878.html?hpid=topnews)):


Obama added: "Look, this is a recruitment bonanza for al-Qaeda. You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan. This could increase the recruitment of individuals who would be willing to blow themselves up in American cities or European cities."


Violence in Pakistan from book-burning, Oh My!

Here's whats happening now in Pakistan Chocolate Jesus (article here (http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/03-pakistan-flood-crisis-bigger-than-tsunami-haiti-un-ss-05)):


ISLAMABAD: The number of people suffering from the massive floods in Pakistan could exceed the combined total in three recent megadisasters - the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the 2005 Kashmir earthquake and the 2010 Haiti earthquake - the United Nations said Monday.

The death toll in each of those three disasters was much higher than the 1,500 people killed so far in the floods that first hit Pakistan two weeks ago. But the Pakistani government estimates that over 13 million people have been affected - two million more than the other disasters combined.

Anyway, its clear this is both orchestrated and ultimately a non-issue being used to increase tensions. I hope Jones plans to teach a lesson from this but I'm definitely hoping against the odds.

[fisharmor]

At the same time, Muslim Imams should orchestrate a Bible burning, and announce this message:

"This is the freedom that your soldiers are supposedly protecting by bombing weddings and gunning down reporters in the middle of the street.

Maybe after we're both done with our publicity stunts, we can sit down and talk about how to be better neighbors to each other."

[MelissaWV]

What is infinitely more likely is for Pastor Jones to say "I have excellent news! I've been praying and praying about this, and wanted to let you know that God has told me not to burn the books! He has told me that books are sacred, precious, vital ways to distribute information, and that there are better ways to spread my message than this act!" and while people are still staring at him... "I also wanted to let you know, by the way, that my publisher has run another printing of my new book 'Islam is of the Devil' which had previously sold out. Yes, all the publicity this has brought me has helped sell what would have been a non-event of a book, and bring you all here to a church with around 50 members (some of which are just children of existing members). It is a miracle! Oh and there is furniture inside, which I was going to sell on eBay, but... you know... if anyone here is interested in buying it?"

Why should he care whether or not there's a message of peace attached to any of this? The guy is a scammer, has been, and ever shall be... douche without end (amen).

[wizardwatson]

What is infinitely more likely is for Pastor Jones to say "I have excellent news! I've been praying and praying about this, and wanted to let you know that God has told me not to burn the books! He has told me that books are sacred, precious, vital ways to distribute information, and that there are better ways to spread my message than this act!" and while people are still staring at him... "I also wanted to let you know, by the way, that my publisher has run another printing of my new book 'Islam is of the Devil' which had previously sold out. Yes, all the publicity this has brought me has helped sell what would have been a non-event of a book, and bring you all here to a church with around 50 members (some of which are just children of existing members). It is a miracle! Oh and there is furniture inside, which I was going to sell on eBay, but... you know... if anyone here is interested in buying it?"

Why should he care whether or not there's a message of peace attached to any of this? The guy is a scammer, has been, and ever shall be... douche without end (amen).

Well, you're probably right, I don't know his backstory.

Money rules. As I've said before, its legal to burn anything you own except money, that's a federal offense.

Money is the real God of this spaceship we call earth.

[BlackTerrel]

What is infinitely more likely is for Pastor Jones to say "I have excellent news! I've been praying and praying about this, and wanted to let you know that God has told me not to burn the books! He has told me that books are sacred, precious, vital ways to distribute information, and that there are better ways to spread my message than this act!" and while people are still staring at him... "I also wanted to let you know, by the way, that my publisher has run another printing of my new book 'Islam is of the Devil' which had previously sold out. Yes, all the publicity this has brought me has helped sell what would have been a non-event of a book, and bring you all here to a church with around 50 members (some of which are just children of existing members). It is a miracle! Oh and there is furniture inside, which I was going to sell on eBay, but... you know... if anyone here is interested in buying it?"

Why should he care whether or not there's a message of peace attached to any of this? The guy is a scammer, has been, and ever shall be... douche without end (amen).

And this scammer no-nothing "Pastor" who has all of 50 members in his broke Church (that last I heard couldn't pay their rent) has the President on his knees begging him to back down. Obama is basically grovelling in front of this guy. WTF is going on?

[Vessol]

I think that every Church that wants to should burn a Qu'ran. Just for the hell of it. Then every Mosque should burn a Bible.

I think in a hidden way all these people are admitting that a lot of Muslims are fucking crazy.

What I mean is, if you burn a bible some people may be upset but it really isn't that big of a deal. By burning a Qu'ran you're gonna get death threats and all sorts of crazy ass shit just like in the Netherlands. I'm not really a fan of political correctness.

So really, I think that Hilary Clinton and all these other people making such a big fuss over this fucking thing really are just insulting Muslims in a hidden way rather than an open way of burning the Qu'ran.

[fisharmor]

So really, I think that Hilary Clinton and all these other people making such a big fuss over this fucking thing really are just insulting Muslims in a hidden way rather than an open way of burning the Qu'ran.

That certainly fits in with their pursuit of racist policies in schools, in order to combat racism.

[wizardwatson]

Whats the real message here? It seems to me the message is, attack the sacred cows of Islam and you'll get some press.

I'm just wondering why we haven't had a flood of youtube's of Neo-nazi's and whatnot burning Korans. Perhaps because most people aren't as retarded as the media would have us believe.

The MSM and TPTB seem desperate for us to hate each other. But it seems rather than all of us seeing that, most are picking a side.

It's weird, cuz I've said numerous times that insulting Islam, burning a Koran, or drawing a picture of Mohammed is much more of a sacred cow than saying the N-Word is. Now it seems the MSM wants to say to the masses, "look at these sacred cows!" Like the emperor in star wars, "Give in to your hate. Even now I see the hate building within you. Release it!"

Just too weird, really.

[johngr]

Don't drink the Kool-Aid. Oh, sorry, wrong Pastor Jones.

[idirtify]

A lot of what Jones revealed (intentionally or accidentally) about Islam is true for many religions. When hoards of believers actually believe their scriptures are the sacred words of the one god, a “cultural narcissism” takes hold. Naturally any one group who has a monopoly on religious truth also has a monopoly on “good”; and even though humility may be a part of their moral code, their feeling of self-importance inescapably becomes dominant. Not only do they feel their texts are sacred enough to justify violence against anyone who “defiles” them (disagrees), but their identity with the ultimate “good” justifies virtually any means. If you saw TJ Holmes’s interview on CNN today with a Muslim leader, you saw a very clear example of what I’m talking about. And if you have been in many religious discussions on LF, you may have seen the same principle in effect here. Basically these religious believers take what is normally considered criminal/aggression and miraculously turn it into a right. In any other situation where one party in a disagreement resorts to violence, it’s a crime; but when a religious group does it (turns to aggression when encountering an attack on their beliefs), it’s seen as a right. Hopefully this recent fiasco can be better understood in these terms and a lesson can be learned by a believer who might tend to over-react with aggression at a mere disagreement with his belief.

Pastor Jones should just point at all the threatened and predicted Muslim reactions and say: “See, I told you. I was never gonna burn anything; I just wanted to show what would happen.”

[idirtify]

Bump

You commonly hear lots of people describe the Koran burning as “religious intolerance”, but it’s not. The burning is only a demonstration of a disagreement. It harms absolutely no one. The only real intolerance in this picture would be any violent reaction to the burning. I’m astounded by how many people don’t even understand such a basic concept.

[wizardwatson]

Bump

You commonly hear lots of people describe the Koran burning as “religious intolerance”, but it’s not. The burning is only a demonstration of a disagreement. It harms absolutely no one. The only real intolerance in this picture would be any violent reaction to the burning. I’m astounded by how many people don’t even understand such a basic concept.

Just because something "doesn't hurt" anyone doesn't mean it isn't wrong. Calling children names doesn't hurt anyone. Making fun of someone in a wheelchair or with glasses doesn't hurt anyone. Telling a 5 year old there's no Santa Claus doesn't hurt anyone.

There are lots of things in the realm of ethics and morals that don't violate the "principle of non-aggression" that are still things one shouldn't do.

And there was no violent reaction to the "threatened" burning by pastor jones. Just some dudes burning an effigy of Jones, which Jones said showed how "violent" the religion was. This from the guy church "pastor" with so much faith in God that he feels the need to brandish a loaded handgun. There's threatened and perceived violence on both sides but no one was "hurt" or "harmed".

I don't care if someone burns a Koran other than the fact that they are wasting a perfectly good heat source. But other people do.

[BlackTerrel]

And there was no violent reaction to the "threatened" burning by pastor jones. Just some dudes burning an effigy of Jones, which Jones said showed how "violent" the religion was. This from the guy church "pastor" with so much faith in God that he feels the need to brandish a loaded handgun. There's threatened and perceived violence on both sides but no one was "hurt" or "harmed".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-protest-20100913,0,4630198.story


Reporting from Kabul, Afghanistan —
Two people were killed and about half a dozen others injured in continuing protests Sunday against an American pastor's plan — abandoned two days earlier — to burn copies of the Muslim holy book.

Violence stemming from the now-defunct threat by a heretofore little-known pastor, Terry Jones, illustrated the depth of outrage inspired in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world over his church's declared intent to desecrate the Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on U.S. soil.

Jones is an idiot. But not as big an idiot as the people killing other people (also Muslims?) because someone 5,000 miles away threatened to burn a book.

[Brian4Liberty]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-protest-20100913,0,4630198.story

Jones is an idiot. But not as big an idiot as the people killing other people (also Muslims?) because someone 5,000 miles away threatened to burn a book.

There are certainly plenty of idiots to go around, but taking the LA Times story at face value is risky. How do we know that protest was related to the book burning? They have protests and riots there all the time. And they are rioting over upcoming elections. They are protesting their government. The LA Times may very well have twisted the story for their own agenda. By the end of the story, they do mention other factors...


Days of unrest over the threatened Koran-burning coincided with rising tensions in advance of Saturday's parliamentary elections. Many observers fear that vote will be plagued by both fraud and violence.

Taliban fighters have vowed to try to disrupt the balloting for the lower house of parliament, the second such vote since the austere Islamist movement was toppled by a U.S.-led invasion nearly nine years ago.

Western leaders have characterized the elections as a means of strengthening and showcasing Afghanistan's still-young democracy. But the insurgents, capitalizing on already potent anti-government sentiment in many parts of the country, have denounced the balloting as a farce meant to prop up a corrupt central government.

As with last summer's presidential election, the mere act of casting a vote places ordinary Afghans at considerable risk. The massive vote-rigging that accompanied the balloting of August 2009 left many people reluctant to take their lives in their hands in order to go to the polls.

[BlackTerrel]

The LA Times may very well have twisted the story for their own agenda. By the end of the story, they do mention other factors...

Here's 1,574 other sources from Google News with the same story. Including Russia Today, Tehran Times (Iran), Sydney Morning Herald (Australia), Xinhua (China) and others. Either they all coordinate and have the same agenda or it actually happened.

http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=afghanistan&ncl=d_KWIIY5ODvT0PMiV41RyDXb5zzUM

[Vessol]

A vocal minority of Muslims are batshit crazy. I don't think anyone can deny that.

[johngr]

A vocal minority of Muslims are batshit crazy. I don't think anyone can deny that.

I'd deny the "minority" part.

[BlackTerrel]

I'd deny the "minority" part.

That doesn't shock me. You don't really like anyone do you John?

[Brian4Liberty]

Here's 1,574 other sources from Google News with the same story. Including Russia Today, Tehran Times (Iran), Sydney Morning Herald (Australia), Xinhua (China) and others. Either they all coordinate and have the same agenda or it actually happened.

http://news.google.com/news/story?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=afghanistan&ncl=d_KWIIY5ODvT0PMiV41RyDXb5zzUM

Hmmm. All that link brings up are unrelated stories about Afghanistan.

As for the coordination aspect, a story from a single news source like Reuters can be reused by thousands of news outlets. I may need to start another thread on this subject, as "news" coordination is a big issue.

[BlackTerrel]

Brian you are right. The link changed. That's google not me.

See here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=260505

[wizardwatson]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-protest-20100913,0,4630198.story



Jones is an idiot. But not as big an idiot as the people killing other people (also Muslims?) because someone 5,000 miles away threatened to burn a book.

Yeah, I saw that actually, but the victims were actual Afghan soldiers I believe. Not that it makes a difference just saying it wasn't Americans. It's the equivalent of riot police getting killed.

Jones did have a point, but ultimately Americans are just as violent in my opinion, we're just vicariously violent.

Anyway, you're right though my point was muted by that story somewhat. I even posted about that story elsewhere myself.

[tropicangela]

And this scammer no-nothing "Pastor" who has all of 50 members in his broke Church (that last I heard couldn't pay their rent) has the President on his knees begging him to back down. Obama is basically grovelling in front of this guy. WTF is going on?

He and his 30-member congregation are moving the church to Fort Myers, FL.

http://www.fox4now.com/news/local/127896838.html