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Anti Federalist
09-07-2010, 11:43 PM
Cops and College: Do Police Need Book Smarts?

Better-educated police officers resort less often to using force, research shows.

By Melinda Burns

http://www.miller-mccune.com/legal-affairs/cops-and-college-do-police-need-book-smarts-21852/?utm_source=Newsletter125&utm_medium=email&utm_content=0907&utm_campaign=newsletters

Weighing in on a long-simmering dispute, a recent study for the Police Quarterly shows that officers with some college education are less likely to resort to force than those who never attend college.

The study found no difference with respect to officer education when it came to arrests or searches of suspects. But it found that in encounters with crime suspects, officers with some college education or a four-year degree resorted to using force 56 percent of the time, while officers with no college education used force 68 percent of the time. “Force” included verbally threatening suspects, grabbing or punching them, using mace or pepper spray, hitting suspects with a baton, handcuffing, throwing to the ground, or pointing or firing a gun at them.

“Up until now, the studies have been much more anecdotal, indicating that education may matter,” said William Terrill, an associate professor of criminal justice at Michigan State and a co-author of the study. “We found that a college education significantly reduces the likelihood of force occurring. The difference is real. It truly is because the officer was more educated, not because the suspect was more resistant.”

Read the rest at link...

WaltM
09-08-2010, 12:16 AM
good idea, force education on them so they won't use force on us later :)

Humanae Libertas
09-08-2010, 02:53 AM
In that case, all cops should be required to have a Master's Degree.

EndDaFed
09-08-2010, 02:59 AM
I think the doctorate level is what we should aim for.

Paleo
09-08-2010, 03:32 AM
agreed. At the very least, cops should be required to have a JD.

Ireland4Liberty
09-08-2010, 06:16 AM
..But doesn't this not suggest that the cops do not get the required education at the academy?:confused:

pcosmar
09-08-2010, 06:53 AM
..But doesn't this not suggest that the cops do not get the required education at the academy?:confused:

"Training" is not necessarily "Education".

roho76
09-08-2010, 07:01 AM
Makes sense. Bullies in schools are not usually honor roll students if you know what I mean. Bullies are bullies because they don't know how to get the desired outcome through any other means. It's a "I want that/this. Give it to me or I'll kick your ass" mentality. It's only natural that that type of mentality would naturally gravitate towards a career in law enforcement.

Slutter McGee
09-08-2010, 07:11 AM
College education shouldn't be necessary. But unfortunately, the ability to reason is not being taught at the high school level.

Ultimately, I think this is much more a matter of intelligence rather than education. And I think there is some degree of correlation between intelligence and a college education.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

brenden.b
09-08-2010, 07:15 AM
I'm guessing maturity has something to do with it too. Spending four to five years in college can mature a person, while some of the younger/more aggressive officers who join the force at age 21 usually are hot heads who never really matured.

pcosmar
09-08-2010, 07:19 AM
College education shouldn't be necessary. But unfortunately, the ability to reason is not being taught at the high school level.

Ultimately, I think this is much more a matter of intelligence rather than education. And I think there is some degree of correlation between intelligence and a college education.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

:confused:
I know many intelligent folks that could never afford college. I also know a number of idiots with college degrees. (often funded by others).
Even college "education" does not guarantee intelligence.
I don't see the correlation.

BlackTerrel
09-08-2010, 07:33 AM
:confused:
I know many intelligent folks that could never afford college. I also know a number of idiots with college degrees. (often funded by others).
Even college "education" does not guarantee intelligence.
I don't see the correlation.

I know short people in the NBA. I also know very tall people who aren't in the NBA and never played basketball. But in general I'd say there is a correlation between being tall and being in the NBA.

Are you really saying there is NO correlation between intelligence and college education? It doesn't have to be 1 to 1.

pcosmar
09-08-2010, 07:44 AM
I know short people in the NBA. I also know very tall people who aren't in the NBA and never played basketball. But in general I'd say there is a correlation between being tall and being in the NBA.

Are you really saying there is NO correlation between intelligence and college education? It doesn't have to be 1 to 1.

No I don't.
Those with intelligence will often get a degree if possible, many do not.
and those with low intelligence will often get a degree for employment purposes or because they are directed to by others. But it doesn't make them any more intelligent.
I have seen many that were educated far beyond their capacity.

specsaregood
09-08-2010, 07:47 AM
“Up until now, the studies have been much more anecdotal, indicating that education may matter,” said William Terrill, an associate professor of criminal justice at Michigan State and a co-author of the study. “We found that a college education significantly reduces the likelihood of force occurring. The difference is real. It truly is because the officer was more educated, not because the suspect was more resistant.”


Yeah, I don't think it is BECAUSE of the education; but probably some correlation with the type of people that are more likely to go to college.

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 07:48 AM
I know short people in the NBA. I also know very tall people who aren't in the NBA and never played basketball. But in general I'd say there is a correlation between being tall and being in the NBA.

Are you really saying there is NO correlation between intelligence and college education? It doesn't have to be 1 to 1.

The shorter NBA players' heights do not matter, as they tend to have astounding vertical leaps that make up for whatever shortcomings they might have standing still. A vertical leap of over 40 inches goes a long way towards making you able to compete with someone almost a foot taller than you are.

Likewise, those who don't go to college may have experience or awesome skills that make up for classroom knowledge. The "correlation" between intelligence and college education? I don't really see it. You do have to be intelligent to pass certain classes, obviously. There are no dumbasses that pass the super high math class levels at the top universities. However, how much intelligence is involved in starting a business and making it successful? How many people who own small businesses have limited/no college? Now, how much intelligence does it take to know that you'd be better served by spending four years building wealth/experience rather than building debt/general knowledge?

Intelligence is a tough thing to measure. Just because it takes intelligence to pass a lot of college courses... does not mean that not going to college indicates a lack of intelligence. The rooster crows before the dawn, but it does not cause the sun to rise. Intelligence comes into play when you make a good decision for yourself based on your strengths, your goals, your situation in general, no?

PatriotOne
09-08-2010, 07:52 AM
Both stats are horrifying regardless of education. Forced used on suspects by the college educated is still 56%.


But it found that in encounters with crime suspects, officers with some college education or a four-year degree resorted to using force 56 percent of the time, while officers with no college education used force 68 percent of the time. “Force” included verbally threatening suspects, grabbing or punching them, using mace or pepper spray, hitting suspects with a baton, handcuffing, throwing to the ground, or pointing or firing a gun at them.

Slutter McGee
09-08-2010, 07:58 AM
:confused:
I know many intelligent folks that could never afford college. I also know a number of idiots with college degrees. (often funded by others).
Even college "education" does not guarantee intelligence.
I don't see the correlation.

I think you probably failed logic. Correlation is different than causation. I would give you an anology but Black Terrel's is perfect.

If you can't understand that highly intelligent people are more likely to attend and graduate college than unintelligent people, then common sense seems lost on you.

That certainly doesn't mean that all intelligent people graduate college. Look at Bill Gates. And it certainly doesn't mean that all people who graduate are intelligent.

There is simply, a correlation.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

specsaregood
09-08-2010, 07:59 AM
Are you really saying there is NO correlation between intelligence and college education? It doesn't have to be 1 to 1.

No I don't.

Sure you do. How many mentally retarded folk do you see going to college? That right there is correlation.

Intelligence is a tough thing to measure. Just because it takes intelligence to pass a lot of college courses... does not mean that not going to college indicates a lack of intelligence.
He never said it did. There is no way you can honestly answer NO to BT's question, stated as it was.

Slutter McGee
09-08-2010, 08:02 AM
Likewise, those who don't go to college may have experience or awesome skills that make up for classroom knowledge. The "correlation" between intelligence and college education? I don't really see it. You do have to be intelligent to pass certain classes, obviously. There are no dumbasses that pass the super high math class levels at the top universities. However, how much intelligence is involved in starting a business and making it successful? How many people who own small businesses have limited/no college? Now, how much intelligence does it take to know that you'd be better served by spending four years building wealth/experience rather than building debt/general knowledge?

Intelligence is a tough thing to measure. Just because it takes intelligence to pass a lot of college courses... does not mean that not going to college indicates a lack of intelligence. The rooster crows before the dawn, but it does not cause the sun to rise. Intelligence comes into play when you make a good decision for yourself based on your strengths, your goals, your situation in general, no?

You are confusing correlation and causation. And intelligence is NOT difficult to measure. It is a measure of somebodies intelligent quotient. And don't give the political BS concerning emotional intelligence, and all the other kinds of self-esteem boosting crap.

Nobody claimed that not going to college indicates lack of intelligence. Simply, that there is a large degree of correlation when looking at the statistics.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Sure you do. How many mentally retarded folk do you see going to college? That right there is correlation.

He never said it did. There is no way you can honestly answer NO to BT's question, stated as it was.

It's a lop-sided question, hence why I threw in the rooster logic.

Surely you can't say there's no correlation between having legs and going to college? The vast majority of people in college have legs.


Familiar examples of dependent phenomena include the correlation between the physical statures of parents and their offspring, and the correlation between the demand for a product and its price. Correlations are useful because they can indicate a predictive relationship that can be exploited in practice. For example, an electrical utility may produce less power on a mild day based on the correlation between electricity demand and weather. Correlations can also suggest possible causal, or mechanistic relationships; however, statistical dependence is not sufficient to demonstrate the presence of such a relationship.

To say there's a correlation does say something about the non-college population.

I don't think it's as simple as people want to make it seem, which is why I made the post that I did. Then again, there are a lot of folks who just think college = smart. There's no changing that idea.

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 08:11 AM
You are confusing correlation and causation. And intelligence is NOT difficult to measure. It is a measure of somebodies intelligent quotient. And don't give the political BS concerning emotional intelligence, and all the other kinds of self-esteem boosting crap.

Nobody claimed that not going to college indicates lack of intelligence. Simply, that there is a large degree of correlation when looking at the statistics.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

You're basing "intelligence" simply off of someone's score on a test where they manipulate little blocks, say what's missing in the picture, and put pictures in order (among other things... but... yeah)? That may be the saddest thing I've heard in a long while.

I suppose we should be thankful that these high-IQ college grads only beat their suspects half the time. Replicating patterns with cubes really prepared them for that line of work.

Jordan
09-08-2010, 08:13 AM
To say there's a correlation does say something about the non-college population.

I don't think it's as simple as people want to make it seem, which is why I made the post that I did. Then again, there are a lot of folks who just think college = smart. There's no changing that idea.

Dude, all he's saying is that people who go to college are on average smarter than those who don't.

Obviously there are some very intelligent people who haven't gone to college. Obviously there are some very dumb people who have.

The point is, however, that when averaged, those who have gone to college are smarter than those who haven't.

FWIW: I know some very intelligent people who have not gone to college, and some very dumb people who have. I wouldn't use it as a barometer, but most do. Unfortunately, the world requires we play by societal rules, not what is "right" or what we perceive to be "right."

paulitics
09-08-2010, 08:17 AM
Study is meaningless. Those with expensive college degrees should have at least taken a basic statistics course to know better, but often common sense is lacking.

First off, 56% vs 68% is not that big of a difference to say that education is the cause. There are likely confounding variables at play, with age being the largest factor. And perhaps those with college degrees are less likely to be assigned to the most dangerous jobs, because of their "credentials".
I think intelligence is the key, not education.

specsaregood
09-08-2010, 08:17 AM
Surely you can't say there's no correlation between having legs and going to college? The vast majority of people in college have legs.

I think you would have to compare the ratio of people with legs that go to college vs. people without legs that go to college to make that statement. You might actually find correlation of people without legs being more likely to go to college. ie: disability scholarships/grants, the need to for a office-job that requires college education, and other reasons


Then again, there are a lot of folks who just think college = smart. There's no changing that idea.
I'm certainly not saying that, there are a lot of dumbasses in college and I only pursued my college degree in underwater basketweaving after having made my way in the world in lieu of a degree.

lucius
09-08-2010, 08:19 AM
Ok, I used to hang-out with the SWAT cops during Dr. Paul's pres run and found them to be extremely disagreeable as human beings...dregs come to mind...retarded might-makes-right luciferian tools etc...but they told me that the San Antonio force will not recruit officers with an IQ over 100 because they feel that higher intelligence interferes with effective execution of orders/solutions...NFS, so I believe this topic about advanced education...the force needs sharp tools not humane-philosophers...

Slutter McGee
09-08-2010, 08:43 AM
You're basing "intelligence" simply off of someone's score on a test where they manipulate little blocks, say what's missing in the picture, and put pictures in order (among other things... but... yeah)? That may be the saddest thing I've heard in a long while.

I suppose we should be thankful that these high-IQ college grads only beat their suspects half the time. Replicating patterns with cubes really prepared them for that line of work.

So now are you arguing that there is no correlation between IQ scores and intelligence? Really?

In addition, I have presented no actual evidence to confirm that intelligence, rather than education makes one less likely to beat people.

I simply recognized that there is a correlation between education and intelligence, and that in my opinion the latter is more likely the cause for this statistic.

Understanding patterns and the ability to reason are what IQ tests are. I am not claiming that IQ tests prepared somebody for their job as a police officer. I am arguing that IQ tests are a good representation of intelligence. And that those with higher intelligence are more likely to rely on reason.

Surely you understand that police who can reason well are more likely to be less abusive than those who don't and rely on brute force and emotion.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

specsaregood
09-08-2010, 08:52 AM
Worth reposting:
http://nyletterpress.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/police-reject-candidate-for-being-too-intelligent/



Police Reject Candidate for Being Too Intelligent

A US man has been rejected in his bid to become a police officer for scoring too high on an intelligence test.

Robert Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took an exam to join the New London police, in Connecticut, in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125.

But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

Mr Jordan launched a federal lawsuit against the city, but lost.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Mr Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

He said: “This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class. I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”

He said he does not plan to take any further legal action and has worked as a prison guard since he took the test.

The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average

lucius
09-08-2010, 08:53 AM
Agree...


So now are you arguing that there is no correlation between IQ scores and intelligence? Really?

In addition, I have presented no actual evidence to confirm that intelligence, rather than education makes one less likely to beat people.

I simply recognized that there is a correlation between education and intelligence, and that in my opinion the latter is more likely the cause for this statistic.

Understanding patterns and the ability to reason are what IQ tests are. I am not claiming that IQ tests prepared somebody for their job as a police officer. I am arguing that IQ tests are a good representation of intelligence. And that those with higher intelligence are more likely to rely on reason.

Surely you understand that police who can reason well are more likely to be less abusive than those who don't and rely on brute force and emotion.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 08:57 AM
Study is meaningless. Those with expensive college degrees should have at least taken a basic statistics course to know better, but often common sense is lacking.

First off, 56% vs 68% is not that big of a difference to say that education is the cause. There are likely confounding variables at play, with age being the largest factor. And perhaps those with college degrees are less likely to be assigned to the most dangerous jobs, because of their "credentials".
I think intelligence is the key, not education.

I would be more interested to see where the police officers came from. It's unlikely that college education is as significant as the study tries its damnedest to point out that it is, and that it has to do more with the culture the officers grew up in. Something like that can statistically reinforce something like college education.

* * *

There is a correlation between succeeding at college and being intelligent. That's not what was in the OP, though, or what Slutter has brought forth in subsequent posts. The OP talks about "some college" and a four-year degree within the same category. What you guys are arguing is that, regardless of outcome, there is a correlation between intelligence and attending college at all. How smart is it, precisely, to go to college and yet fail, wasting time/money?


As reported in a Bureau of Justice Statistics study from 2003, 83 percent of all U.S. police agencies require a high school diploma, but only 8 percent require some college. Only 1 percent of police agencies require a four-year college degree.



The primary independent variable in the analysis is the education level of the officer. The officer’s education is captured using two dichotomous measures, one for some college exposure but no baccalaureate degree, and one for a 4-year degree. The reference category consists of encounters involving officers with a high school diploma or less.


The present analysis itself is not capable of providing a satisfactory answer as to how and why education may or may not matter.


Future research should include a multitude of measures to better capture officer exposure and involvement in higher education. Potential measures may include whether the degree was earned prior to, or during, police employment as well as whether college major, extracurricular activities, and grade point average matters in some way (see Hudzik, 1978).


...the ability to conduct any type of meaningful qualitative analysis was elminated.


The relationship between higher education and officer behavior remains unresolved; however the potential for research in this area is both abundant and exciting.


In any examination of the impact of higher education on police behavior, the most prudent policy implication regard whether police departments should include a college degree as a prerequisite for employment. The findings of the present analysis alone do not warrant a reversal of the statement of the National Academics Panel on Police Policy and Performance (Skogan & Frydl, 2004) when it found that there was insufficient evidence to recommend a college education requirement for employment as a police officer. This is not particuarly good news for proponents of higher education (although it does not represent bad news either). There is simply not enough quality evidence to determine whether higher education has a desirable effect on police performance.

You guys read that, right?

* * *

I doubt any of these officers who are beating up on suspects are particularly intelligent in any practical sense. The argument that they're more intelligent because they went to college is silly; they are still demonstrating the same idiotic behavior to the same extent as their non-college counterparts. More interesting is the study's Table 8, which happens to show no huge statistical leap between "some college" and "4-year degree." It doesn't make a difference whether or not you actually graduate, which seems to put the "it takes intelligence to graduate" argument for the difference between the percentages stated in the OP into question.

Or I could have typed something much shorter, but obviously that wasn't cutting it. I made the erroneous assumption that you had read the article and accompanying literature, or at least skimmed it for raw data relevant to the discussion. :D

wizardwatson
09-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Makes sense. Bullies in schools are not usually honor roll students if you know what I mean. Bullies are bullies because they don't know how to get the desired outcome through any other means. It's a "I want that/this. Give it to me or I'll kick your ass" mentality. It's only natural that that type of mentality would naturally gravitate towards a career in law enforcement.

Hmmm, your argument is not lacking in finesse, but all I really hear is nerds are pussies.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RMHL0hLrIYs/TIekvzG_YkI/AAAAAAAABDA/GHOW4Od0Nz0/s800/ogre_nerds.jpg

This thread is full of Nerd.

Slutter McGee
09-08-2010, 09:53 AM
I would be more interested to see where the police officers came from. It's unlikely that college education is as significant as the study tries its damnedest to point out that it is, and that it has to do more with the culture the officers grew up in. Something like that can statistically reinforce something like college education.

* * *

There is a correlation between succeeding at college and being intelligent. That's not what was in the OP, though, or what Slutter has brought forth in subsequent posts. The OP talks about "some college" and a four-year degree within the same category. What you guys are arguing is that, regardless of outcome, there is a correlation between intelligence and attending college at all. How smart is it, precisely, to go to college and yet fail, wasting time/money? I doubt any of these officers who are beating up on suspects are particularly intelligent in any practical sense. The argument that they're more intelligent because they went to college is silly; they are still demonstrating the same idiotic behavior to the same extent as their non-college counterparts. More interesting is the study's Table 8, which happens to show no huge statistical leap between "some college" and "4-year degree." It doesn't make a difference whether or not you actually graduate, which seems to put the "it takes intelligence to graduate" argument for the difference between the percentages stated in the OP into question.

Or I could have typed something much shorter, but obviously that wasn't cutting it. I made the erroneous assumption that you had read the article and accompanying literature, or at least skimmed it for raw data relevant to the discussion. :D

You are still missing the point. The article claims that education makes police less likely to use force. I disagree. I think that it is intelligence, and that education is simply a correlating factor. We are not arguing that all who graduate or attend college are intelligent. Simply that there is some correlation.

Now whether or not the article is correct in its argument is up for debate. But surely we recognize that there are a number of police who are not abusive. What do you believe the reason is? There could be a number of contributing factors including military service, education, intelligence, environment, upbringing, age, and many other things.

Nobody is arguing against that. But if such correlation between education and police abuse really exists, I believe it is more a factor of intelligence, because intelligence reflects ones ability reason. And there is enough correlation between intelligence and education to lead to an erroneous conclusion.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

Isaac Bickerstaff
09-08-2010, 10:09 AM
I think it is simpler than intelligence or education in the classic sense. The truth is that you either innately have or learn patience in order to attend college for any length of time, quite possibly to one's own detriment.

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 10:27 AM
You are still missing the point. The article claims that education makes police less likely to use force. I disagree. I think that it is intelligence, and that education is simply a correlating factor. We are not arguing that all who graduate or attend college are intelligent. Simply that there is some correlation.

Now whether or not the article is correct in its argument is up for debate. But surely we recognize that there are a number of police who are not abusive. What do you believe the reason is? There could be a number of contributing factors including military service, education, intelligence, environment, upbringing, age, and many other things.

Nobody is arguing against that. But if such correlation between education and police abuse really exists, I believe it is more a factor of intelligence, because intelligence reflects ones ability reason. And there is enough correlation between intelligence and education to lead to an erroneous conclusion.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

You were talking about graduates earlier. Are you no longer doing that? The article talks about both graduates and those with "some college," and I pointed you to the raw data which would seem to indicate there really isn't any difference in the behavior between those who succeed and those who do not. Therefore, since it takes more intelligence to succeed, and to get past those higher-level college classes, you could argue that the degree-holders have a higher incidence of intelligence (or high IQ, if you prefer?) yet they don't have a much lower incidence of using force. Intelligence, then, doesn't seem to be the determining factor per this study's data.

The reason I brought up the graduates versus non-graduates thing is because there is obviously a difference between "some college" (where you go and fail, or drop out, or otherwise just don't finish for some reason) and getting your degree. Also, if you notice I did quote the portion of the study that says it would be advantageous to figure out who's still in college at the time they become a police officer, and who goes on to finish. That would make the study a lot more sound. As it stands, the thing doesn't say much (and admits as much).

I already posted earlier about intelligence being more about knowing yourself and making smart decisions. That might or might not be college. I don't buy there being a correlation between intelligence and education, but I'm biased, and my view of intelligence is not defined by blocks and pictures so much as by adaptation and utilization/efficiency. To each their own :) We are never going to agree on that one.

Anti Federalist
09-08-2010, 10:40 AM
Higher education does not necessarily equate to a obviation of the will to dominate, the whole surveillance state/prison grid being erected around us is being built by PhDs working at shadowy government agencies like NSA or DARPA hand in hand with the brightest minds at places like MIT and Stanford.

But certainly there is some correlation between education or the person who has the patience and fortitude to stick out a four year degree program as opposed to the 'roided out hot heads who beat/tase/shoot first and ask questions later.

libertybrewcity
09-08-2010, 10:51 AM
Keyword. less likely. They still use force.

MelissaWV
09-08-2010, 11:15 AM
At least Google Ads has some levity....

This thread now brings up an ad to "volunteer to work with monkeys" for me.

Hmmm! Wonder what they're trying to say!?

NCGOPer_for_Paul
09-08-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm glad to see this coming back up. For information purposes, I have practical knowledge in this arena. I have a Criminal Justice degree from the University of Delaware, 1992 graduate. When I was a student, the new thing in policing was to recruit college graduates, pay a little higher than the street recruit, and try to use the college grads as model officers. It actually is a pretty good model, however, in many of the cities where it was tried, the police unions rebelled against the practice. They didn't like the idea of the cop with the BA making $5k a year more than the cop without a degree. This, even though the "community policing" model led by the college grad cops had a siginficant influence on crime reduction.

The thought behind the college degreed cop is, that cop isn't going to go into every situation with a gun drawn, taser at the ready, or a club out ready to bash heads. The degreed cop is more likely to gain control of a situation by hearing all sides and then being able to use his/her brain to make a decision based upon the scene, rather than the call. It did work in many places with a distrust of the police. A cop who rationally thought out situations was more respected by the public. It also led to better community relations, and the public was more ready to help the police in dealing with the problems in their communties, because police response tended to be more targeted rather than random.

Due to the success of these programs, veteran cops resented the degreed officers and used the power of the union to go after fast risers. They also found ways to set up the degreed officers when on patrol. Many of these degreed officers left the force after 2-3 years of making a difference, but their fellow "boys in blue" stabbed them in the back. Also, many cheifs of police found that the degreed officers weren't great when following orders. They didn't like officers saying DUI checkpoints are unconstitutional, and refusing to carry out other orders that were iffy constitutionally.

After 9-11, police forces didn't want thought in their ranks, they wanted and still want obedience to orders rather than processing information. Hence, thug cops. I'm glad this argument and policing model is getting some attention again.

BlackTerrel
09-08-2010, 12:04 PM
At least Google Ads has some levity....

This thread now brings up an ad to "volunteer to work with monkeys" for me.

Hmmm! Wonder what they're trying to say!?

Hahahaha.... now there is a link to work with Homeland Security.