WTC Steel Columns to Be Installed at 9/11 Museum

[Matt Collins]

WTC Steel Columns to Be Installed at 9/11 Museum



SOURCE:
http://www.newsmax.com/US/US-Attacks-Redevelopment/2010/09/07/id/369318

[Matt Collins]

This ought to start an interesting discussion I'm sure...heh

[Vessol]

I'll just leave this here. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/Vessol/cross911.jpg

[Matt Collins]

Well that image is gonna take this thread in an entirely new direction.

[MelissaWV]

I'll just leave this here. :)


A bit of a false premise. Events are often far more complicated than people realize. The idea that God should intervene when you believe it is convenient or logically saves lives is based on the short-sighted and usually unilateral analysis of evidence lain before you.

People often talk, to choose a very simple example, about going back in time and killing Hitler. This would stop the Holocaust, they say, and save millions. It would also maybe stop WWII, which would save so many more lives. There is no real evidence that nothing like the Holocaust would have happened, though. There is also zero evidence that it would have stopped WWII from taking place, particularly since the Japanese were already doing all sorts of creative things in the Far East. The conditions in Germany were such, also, that if no decisive leader with national plans for expansion and delusions of grandeur arose, the people would have endured their own brand of hardship, and many would have died (even, strangely enough, many of those who would have died in camps and on forced marches). Assuming the world cruised on past this, there would have been the trouble with the USSR and other nations. Their development would have been different, and the Bomb was still going to be developed one way or another. It might not have been used right away, but that race was still hotly underway, and Man does not create such weapons to leave them idle. So, given all of this, would going back and killing Hitler really do a whole hell of a lot? *shrugs*

The same could be said for "preventing 9/11." Do you really think an attack was not going to happen at some point? Would saving 3,000+ people, and the many thousands more who died in the wake of the event, be the greater path to take? What would the consequences have been? What would be going on now? What would take the place of this fear and hatred, and all this ridiculous faux-Patriotism?

Taking it as a given that there's a God who can interfere, perhaps He would also know enough that interfering would not be for the best, and that the world is a machine that must be allowed to run. Otherwise, He would not have created things thus, and would have instead made it so people live on and on and on until they die a natural death, and are replaced at a steady rate. Even then, someone would cry "what is God if He lets us die of old age?" People are never really satisfied, on the whole, with their lot.

[MelissaWV]

Well that image is gonna take this thread in an entirely new direction.

Rather than being Truther-bait? Don't you have enough of those threads already to be tenting your fingers and grinning sardonically down (up?) your nose at people who don't believe the official story and posit their own version of events?

[Kludge]

Mel's reply was, as usual, tl;dr. The cross of metal was seen as something God left to inspire the folks. The argument is "why did God intentionally leave you guys a piece of metal implying the struggles Jesus went through instead of just not allowing the crucifixion or 9/11 tragedy to occur?"

The truly crucial response here, however, is "I hope the steel doesn't melt by the time they transport it to the museum."

[MelissaWV]

My response actually took up less space than Vessol's. Perhaps it was the words themselves that were too long, or that I didn't use colorful text. For someone who doesn't read my responses, you certainly do comment on many of them. :rolleyes:

[Kludge]

My response actually took up less space than Vessol's. Perhaps it was the words themselves that were too long, or that I didn't use colorful text. For someone who doesn't read my responses, you certainly do comment on many of them. :rolleyes:

I don't think I do. I have time to waste - doesn't mean I'm going to waste it reading something which doesn't stimulate.

Vessol made a powerful argument in just over 20 words. The retort should be similar in length. I don't think I'm alone in associating wordiness with waste.

[MelissaWV]

I don't think I do. I have time to waste - doesn't mean I'm going to waste it reading something which doesn't stimulate.

Vessol made a powerful argument in just over 20 words. The retort should be similar in length. I don't think I'm alone in associating wordiness with waste.

Douchebag. :D

[Vessol]

I want to clarify that I'm not an atheist as that image makes me out to be. I do get agitated though with a lot of people who seem to claim that they are blessed and given miracles in many such trifling matters when others whom are possibly just as faithful get the short end of the stick.

I remember when I was religious and younger I went to a Youth Group and there was a kid who had a tooth ache, we were then directed to pray over him for God to heal his tooth ache. At the time I thought this was incredibly silly and I downright thought it was BS when 10 minutes later the kid screams "My tooth doesn't hurt anymore! Praise Jesus!"

I guess the extent of this idea is best described in question form.

"Why doesn't God heal amputees?"
If God is believed to cure and heal so many people, why is it always in ways that are subjective and can not be verifiable concluded that it was indeed a miracle. If God can cure cancerous tissue growth as many claim, why can he also not make a new arm materialize on someone's amputated arm?

Oh and I also did post this so this didn't sink into the boring Truther arguments.

[Zippyjuan]

Supose God did prevent all forms of suffering. Would people feel the need to recognize Him? Do people pray "Thank you God for letting me get a job today" or is it "Please God, help me find a job"? ""Praise God that I am in good health" or is it "Please God, help heal me"?

[Vessol]

Well we are God's children, are we not?

Would you rather your children say "Thanks daddy for the great dinner!" or would you rather they say "Please daddy! Can I have some food! I'm literally starving to death!"

As for people recognizing him, the whole invisible and subjective powers isn't really winning many new converts. You'd think that if any of the various Gods that mankind has worshipped, that at least one of them would show themselves and their power and end this whole "Which God is real" argument out of the tens of thousands of Gods that there are.

[libertybrewcity]

maybe they'll weld them better this time..

[Galileo Galilei]

This is an outrage!

[JenH88]

$45 million dollar museum... f*ck...

[oyarde]

$45 million dollar museum... f*ck...

I agree with that , but would not care if I am not paying for any of it .

[Trigonx]

Mel's reply was, as usual, tl;dr. The cross of metal was seen as something God left to inspire the folks. The argument is "why did God intentionally leave you guys a piece of metal implying the struggles Jesus went through instead of just not allowing the crucifixion or 9/11 tragedy to occur?"

The truly crucial response here, however, is "I hope the steel doesn't melt by the time they transport it to the museum."

tl;dr = too long; didn't read??

or something else? I've seen it before, but never knew what it stood for.

[NoHero]

Was just reading this interesting article: http://www.livescience.com/health/thinking-about-god-calms-believers-100805.html

Edit: In before this thread is moved to off topic.

[james1906]

tl;dr = too long; didn't read??

or something else? I've seen it before, but never knew what it stood for.

gtfg

[Yieu]

I don't think I do. I have time to waste - doesn't mean I'm going to waste it reading something which doesn't stimulate.

Vessol made a powerful argument in just over 20 words. The retort should be similar in length. I don't think I'm alone in associating wordiness with waste.


Douchebag. :D

In context, that is quite humorous. Few words, yet a powerful statement.

[pcosmar]

Hard to tell from the extremely poor quality low rez photo, But was that metal fatigue , shearing or cuts?
;)

[Yieu]

As for people recognizing him, the whole invisible and subjective powers isn't really winning many new converts. You'd think that if any of the various Gods that mankind has worshipped, that at least one of them would show themselves and their power and end this whole "Which God is real" argument out of the tens of thousands of Gods that there are.

Oh, you didn't know? He did (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna). :D