Seattle: Man shot and killed by cops for whittling.

[Anti Federalist]

Lesson learned:

Any contact with cops is likely to be your last day on earth.



Whittling man fatally shot by police

http://downtownseattle.komonews.com/content/whittling-man-fatally-shot-police

Submitted by KOMO Staff on Monday, August 30th, 04:28pm

YouTube - Whittling man fatally shot by police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQULXaZdfaA&feature=player_embedded)

A man was fatally shot by police in downtown Seattle on Monday afternoon, according to police.

The shooting occurred on the northwest corner of Boren Ave. and E. Howell St. at approximately 4:15 p.m.

Police said an officer was on patrol when he spotted a man sitting on the sidewalk, whittling, and approached him.

The officer told the man to drop the knife several times, police said, but instead of doing so, he stood up. When the man refused to heed to his commands, the officer opened fire and hit the man.

The unidentified man was fatally injured. Nearby witnesses said they heard as many as five shots being fired.

"It was rapid succession of five or six shots, straight to the chest. It was point blank," said one witness who wished to remain anonymous.

According to city code, it is unlawful for anyone to "carry concealed or unconcealed on his or her person any dangerous knife, or carry concealed on his or her person any deadly weapon other than a firearm."

The code qualifies "any dangerous knife" as "any fixed-blade knife and any other knife having a blade more than three and one-half inches in length."

The name of the involved officer has not been released, but Seattle Police Chief John Diaz did comment on his performance.

"He's considered a very good officer. He has a good record," he said.

The officer involved in the shooting has been placed on paid administrative leave as is standard in such cases.

The incident will be reviewed by what the chief calls a shooting review board.

[tpreitzel]

Dear Lord ... Many cops are so wound up through propaganda and myopic laws that they're largely incapable of functioning rationally. Unfortunately, until the propaganda stops and the myopic laws repealed or the cops disarmed, they'll remain a threat to society. Personally, the odds of surviving some time in bar full of armed drunks is probably considerably higher than whittling on some street. Simply tragic and a consequence of paranoia and bad law...

[coastie]

:mad:

Damn, even while an active duty Boarding Officer in USCG-I cant imagine this escalating that far. WTF kind of people are they letting be cops nowadays:confused:

Never mind, I seen these types on my side at times, too, but it never goes this far(yet...). These guys have the power to summarily execute you on the spot-while your devastated family pays higher taxes to pay for the executioner's paid vacation-and inevitable declaration of innocence and courage during the performance of duty...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Anti Federalist]

:mad:

Damn, even while an active duty Boarding Officer in USCG-I cant imagine this escalating that far. WTF kind of people are they letting be cops nowadays:confused:

Never mind, I seen these types on my side at times, too, but it never goes this far(yet...). These guys have the power to summarily execute you on the spot-while your devastated family pays higher taxes to pay for the executioner's paid vacation-and inevitable declaration of innocence and courage during the performance of duty...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Comply, right away, or get shot, no questions asked.

And even "compliance" is often not enough, especially when you have a bunch of these hut hutting assholes all shouting contradictory orders.

[Humanae Libertas]

WTF, another Mobster getting a paid vacation?


Cops sure worry about their safety, but they sure don't give a fuck about yours.

[jclay2]

Comply, right away, or get shot, no questions asked.

And even "compliance" is often not enough, especially when you have a bunch of these hut hutting assholes all shouting contradictory orders.

Yep. Gosh, the shear number of police f*** ups that I have read this year is getting mind numbing. How the sheep don't realize we are in a police state is beyond me. When dealing with cops, they are the supreme overlords. Any resistance (even non violent, non verbal, non threatening) will be terminated at will. What is sad about a ton of these police brutality cases is how the officers are the instigators almost every time. "A man has a knife! Gasp! I must confront him and shoot him 6 times in the cheast." Honestly, these people are pathetic and need to be dismantled. Heaven forbid they see a 13 year old playing with fire crackers or a bb gun.

[Mach]

After being brainwashed so long with all of that Patriot Act Propaganda they seem to become very paranoid schizophrenic. Their bosses get all expense paid Federal trips to learn all about "terrorism," that literally puts them into a whole new SS way of thinking. All of the American people are not even plain old "criminals" anymore, now we are downright "terrorist," and the police are the heroes of this country killing all of the whittlers that be.

[Indy Vidual]

After being brainwashed so long with all of that Patriot Act Propaganda they seem to become very paranoid schizophrenic. Their bosses get all expense paid Federal trips to learn all about "terrorism," that literally puts them into a whole new SS way of thinking. All of the American people are not even plain old "criminals" anymore, now we are downright "terrorist," and the police are the heroes of this country killing all of the whittlers that be.

+1984



WTF, another Mobster getting a paid vacation?...

This story is pretty extreme!
I need an (unpaid) vacation from RPF's; Have fun everybody............

[GunnyFreedom]

Yeah, all my paperwork is ready. I can't wait any more. Although I hate the idea of needing one, I'm filing for my CC permit on Tuesday.

[CasualApathy]

This is insane, shooting a guy with a knife 5-6 times in the chest at point blank range?! WTF!
That being said, if a cop comes up to you and pulls his gun telling you to drop the knife, THEN DROP THE DAMN KNIFE!... Knowing how paranoid, unreasonable and uncaring some cops can be, why would you want to confront him? No use in being right if you are dead...

[mrsat_98]

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story/Homeowner-I-shot-police-officer-in-self-defense/GySFZzUQukiYdY9fxIWZEw.cspx?rss=315

In our hood we just shoot em.

[fisharmor]

He's considered a very good officer. He has a good record.

Note the use of the present tense, he currently has a good record.

[Pericles]

:mad:

Damn, even while an active duty Boarding Officer in USCG-I cant imagine this escalating that far. WTF kind of people are they letting be cops nowadays:confused:

Never mind, I seen these types on my side at times, too, but it never goes this far(yet...). These guys have the power to summarily execute you on the spot-while your devastated family pays higher taxes to pay for the executioner's paid vacation-and inevitable declaration of innocence and courage during the performance of duty...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Had this conversation with a couple of good cops (long since retired) over 15 years ago. They told me it is the relaxed standards - when they joined, the background check was extensive "and we are going to talk to every teacher you had all the way back to first grade" and they left you with the feeling that you could just withdraw your application now because they were sure to find some disqualification. Now they will take anybody, and even a non violent felony conviction might get waived. We all see the result.

[aGameOfThrones]

He's considered a very good officer. He has a good record.

Note the use of the present tense, he currently has a good record.



Present or future! If you kill people minding their own business not hurting anyone is consider having a "good record". It's not until they are video tape that maybe, that's a maybe that they'll get some sort of punishment, and that's a maybe.

[Bern]

The news report didn't offer any testimony from the supposed eye witness as to whether or not the man with the knife made any threatening moves with the knife once he stood up. His comment that the cop should have shot him in an extremity to diffuse/resolve the situation indicates to me that it is likely. Sad story.

[fedup100]

This is insane, shooting a guy with a knife 5-6 times in the chest at point blank range?! WTF!
That being said, if a cop comes up to you and pulls his gun telling you to drop the knife, THEN DROP THE DAMN KNIFE!... Knowing how paranoid, unreasonable and uncaring some cops can be, why would you want to confront him? No use in being right if you are dead...

The man was known in the community, he sat there for two years making those totems. He was a cripple, alcoholic and deaf in one ear. He probably never heard the insane murderer's commands.

[Hunter Gatherer]

damn, I plan on moving to seattle in a couple of weeks.

[Jeremy]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[libertybrewcity]

This cop needs to go to jail for life.

[MelissaWV]

The man was known in the community, he sat there for two years making those totems. He was a cripple, alcoholic and deaf in one ear. He probably never heard the insane murderer's commands.

This is one of the things that makes me fearful for some of my friends. I know quite a few deaf or blind folks, and shudder at the fact that the police don't seem to think that they might exist. Imagine if the guy was totally deaf, looking down, whittling, oblivious to the cop's shouting and not looking at him (so didn't see the gun, etc.). Maybe he just happened to get up. Oh, yeah, I could see that being a misunderstanding... but... worthy of death? Jeez.

[Bern]

On page 3 or so of the comments to the article, someone said the victim had been increasingly hostile to police recently and this event wasn't entirely unexpected.

[aGameOfThrones]

On page 3 or so of the comments to the article, someone said the victim had been increasingly hostile to police recently and this event wasn't entirely unexpected.

If true, maybe it was because the police were increasingly hostile with the victim. After all, he got shot 6 times in the chest for whittling and causing no harm to anyone or anything.

[libertybrewcity]

On page 3 or so of the comments to the article, someone said the victim had been increasingly hostile to police recently and this event wasn't entirely unexpected.

There was no reason to stop him in the first place.

[oyarde]

I am speechless . Insanity .

[MelissaWV]

On page 3 or so of the comments to the article, someone said the victim had been increasingly hostile to police recently and this event wasn't entirely unexpected.

While I understand your point, perhaps he was hostile towards police because they were pestering him for whittling. Also, this implies that the police knew the guy was increasingly hostile... so why bother him? There's knowledge that the guy is just sitting there whittling. If there were reports of his being hostile towards people, who then sought the aid of police, who were then confronted with an angry man with a knife, perhaps the story would be a little different. Even then, the matter of so many shots at close range would remain a mystery.

[TC95]

This pig needs to go to jail for life.

No. He needs to be tried for murder and given the death penalty. I guarantee you they'd be giving someone else the death penalty if someone murdered that cop.

http://www.theolympian.com/2010/09/02/1355868/death-penalty-decision-due-in.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Anti Federalist]

The man was known in the community, he sat there for two years making those totems. He was a cripple, alcoholic and deaf in one ear. He probably never heard the insane murderer's commands.

Please post a link to that info, thanks.


This is one of the things that makes me fearful for some of my friends. I know quite a few deaf or blind folks, and shudder at the fact that the police don't seem to think that they might exist. Imagine if the guy was totally deaf, looking down, whittling, oblivious to the cop's shouting and not looking at him (so didn't see the gun, etc.). Maybe he just happened to get up. Oh, yeah, I could see that being a misunderstanding... but... worthy of death? Jeez.

There have been more than a few cases of people being dragged out of their cars for DWI or drugs, tased and in some cases killed, when the reality was they were in diabetic shock and could not "comply".

Or crippled...I could post a thousand of these stories.

Youngstown cop beat me, paralyzed man says
http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/mar/10/city-cop-beat-me-paralyzed-man-says/
Daniel said a tow truck rode by the accident shortly after his brother left the scene, and he slid into the driver’s seat to flag down the driver. Daniel asked the driver for assistance, but said he did not need to have the police called.

The tow truck driver, according to police reports, however, called police because he thought he saw a gun inside the vehicle in which Daniel was sitting. Police did not find a gun, but did find a black stick inside the vehicle.

Joliff arrived at the scene of the accident shortly after the call from the tow truck driver.

Daniel said Joliff, at gun point, used an expletive and told him he would hurt him if he moved. Daniel said he told the officer he was paralyzed and could not walk, but the officer told him to be quiet.

Daniel said Joliff handcuffed him through the window, then punched him in the mouth. He said the officer dragged him from the SUV causing his pants to come down.

Daniel said he asked the officer to help get him out of the road because he is handicapped, but was again told to shut up. He said he asked two other officers who had arrived at the scene for help, and Joliff again hit him in the mouth.

[RedStripe]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2h4w515.gif

[fedup100]

Please post a link to that info, thanks.



There have been more than a few cases of people being dragged out of their cars for DWI or drugs, tased and in some cases killed, when the reality was they were in diabetic shock and could not "comply".

Or crippled...I could post a thousand of these stories.

Youngstown cop beat me, paralyzed man says
http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/mar/10/city-cop-beat-me-paralyzed-man-says/
Daniel said a tow truck rode by the accident shortly after his brother left the scene, and he slid into the driver’s seat to flag down the driver. Daniel asked the driver for assistance, but said he did not need to have the police called.

The tow truck driver, according to police reports, however, called police because he thought he saw a gun inside the vehicle in which Daniel was sitting. Police did not find a gun, but did find a black stick inside the vehicle.

Joliff arrived at the scene of the accident shortly after the call from the tow truck driver.

Daniel said Joliff, at gun point, used an expletive and told him he would hurt him if he moved. Daniel said he told the officer he was paralyzed and could not walk, but the officer told him to be quiet.

Daniel said Joliff handcuffed him through the window, then punched him in the mouth. He said the officer dragged him from the SUV causing his pants to come down.

Daniel said he asked the officer to help get him out of the road because he is handicapped, but was again told to shut up. He said he asked two other officers who had arrived at the scene for help, and Joliff again hit him in the mouth.

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=91

The cop is lying, witnesses say the cop ran up to the sitting man and shot him. Te man was a cripple, I assure you he was not advancing on the loser murderer with a badge.

scroll all the way down to the last story.


Williams was 50-years-old. He walked with a pronounced limp and was deaf in one ear, according to friends. The officer says he stopped when he saw Williams with his knife because something "didn't feel right".

[forsmant]

wtf. I carry a knife all the time. A box cutter. I am a carpenter. I like sharp things. WTF. Is the cop at least fired and charged with murder?

[Mini-Me]

wtf. I carry a knife all the time. A box cutter. I am a carpenter. I like sharp things. WTF. Is the cop at least fired and charged with murder?

You know, it's a pretty sad world. Exhibit A: The question you asked is not supposed to sound absurd and comical, but somehow it does. :-/

[Mach]

Acting Deputy Chief Nick Metz said Tuesday that Birk was stopped in his car at a red light as he headed south on Boren when he spotted Williams walking in a crosswalk "carrying a wooden board and a knife."

"He could see the blade of the knife and the man was doing something to the board," Metz said. :rolleyes:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012769201_copshooting01m.html

[Vessol]

I can't wait until they shoot an old lady for knitting on a bus because whittling needles can be sharpened and used for weapons!

[Bern]

I hate abuse of authority as much as the next person, but those of you characterizing this incident as someone being shot for whittling are disingenuous.

Even if the guy was deaf - you don't advance on a policeman with an open blade in your hand. That's just never going to end well.

[MelissaWV]

I hate abuse of authority as much as the next person, but those of you characterizing this incident as someone being shot for whittling are disingenuous.

Even if the guy was deaf - you don't advance on a policeman with an open blade in your hand. That's just never going to end well.

I don't see any convincing evidence of "advancing" going on, and I also don't see justification for that many gunshots at point blank range. My question to you is whether or not taking a step or two with a blade in your hand, after standing from using that blade, is worthy of instant death penalty? Consider this: Do you really think this would have ended differently if the person paused to put the blade away? To close it (assuming it's that kind of knife)? To fling it on the ground (if it was flung "in the officer's direction" it would have seemed threatening, too)? To gently set it on the ground? Which of these would the officer have accepted as good enough to keep the guy alive? If you can't answer the very last question, then neither could the guy who was sitting there whittling.

The officer, though, did save that board from certain destruction.

I can absolutely understand the point of view of the police in some circumstances, but this one stinks in so many ways. :(

[Anti Federalist]

I hate abuse of authority as much as the next person, but those of you characterizing this incident as someone being shot for whittling are disingenuous.

Even if the guy was deaf - you don't advance on a policeman with an open blade in your hand. That's just never going to end well.

What would happen if you did it?

If, all things being absolutely equal, you would walk, with no charges filed and not even an arrest, then OK, maybe it was a justified shoot.

Now, given the circumstances of this particular case, would that be true?

[Vessol]

YouTube - WA Police TASER Another Man To Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5UYdtkzJFM)

[BuddyRey]

This story brings to mind that South Park episode, where Jimbo and Ned had a hunting show, but because of new laws on the books, they could now only kill animals in self-defense. To get around this, they would approach their game and yell into the video camera, "it's headed right for us!", even though the unsuspecting critter was clearly standing around, disinterested.

Now, I'm not saying that this is what happened to the whittler in Seattle, but isn't it interesting how often we hear this same excuse from trigger-happy cops around the country when their misdeeds are called into question? Also, how easy would it be for these police to prove their claims of self-defense, when we know they have dashcams and witnesses galore? I say that until we see the dashcam footage, these officers should be suspended without pay.

[RCA]

This story brings to mind that South Park episode, where Jimbo and Ned had a hunting show, but because of new laws on the books, they could now only kill animals in self-defense. To get around this, they would approach their game and yell into the video camera, "it's headed right for us!", even though the unsuspecting critter was clearly standing around, disinterested.

Now, I'm not saying that this is what happened to the whittler in Seattle, but isn't it interesting how often we hear this same excuse from trigger-happy cops around the country when their misdeeds are called into question? Also, how easy would it be for these police to prove their claims of self-defense, when we know they have dashcams and witnesses galore? I say that until we see the dashcam footage, these officers should be suspended without pay.

Spot on with the South Park reference!

[aGameOfThrones]

YouTube - WA Police TASER Another Man To Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5UYdtkzJFM)


:mad::mad::mad:

[Anti Federalist]

This story brings to mind that South Park episode, where Jimbo and Ned had a hunting show, but because of new laws on the books, they could now only kill animals in self-defense. To get around this, they would approach their game and yell into the video camera, "it's headed right for us!", even though the unsuspecting critter was clearly standing around, disinterested.

Now, I'm not saying that this is what happened to the whittler in Seattle, but isn't it interesting how often we hear this same excuse from trigger-happy cops around the country when their misdeeds are called into question? Also, how easy would it be for these police to prove their claims of self-defense, when we know they have dashcams and witnesses galore? I say that until we see the dashcam footage, these officers should be suspended without pay.


Lol, yeah right...:D

YouTube - south park clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5pGeCUM-Y)

[fedup100]

We need a new category here on the forum for Jack boot abuse, it is so out of control, the covers must be lifted so the whole country can get a good whiff.

YouTube - Savannah PD assault Last Biscuit's Momma Ally for filming them (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umylqFZrL3U)

[osan]

Comply, right away, or get shot, no questions asked.

And even "compliance" is often not enough, especially when you have a bunch of these hut hutting assholes all shouting contradictory orders.

I've lived all over the USA and one thing I noticed is that in gun friendly states the cops tend to be more polite and careful in the way they approach and interact with "ordinary" citizens.

Here in WV the cops are generally pretty polite. They know they risk getting shot deader'n stone if they get cute. There are, of course, exceptions.

About 3 years ago our esteemed Summers county sheriff, Gary Wheeler, got caught playing the fiddle with another man's wife. Hubby beat the living snot out of the sheriff and Gary didn't dare do anything "official", like arresting him for assaulting an officer. Had he, chances are fair to middling he would have up and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. That's one of the reasons I like it here.

I've lived in Seattle. It is a liberal shit-hole in terms of politics. That the cops there would such cowards doesn't surprise me in the least.

I feel there needs to be a serious reining-in of the police all over this nation. If people hung together and stopped putting up with this sort of crap, it would stop happening. If any cop trying this sort of thing was met by, say, a dozen pissed off locals all pointing guns at him, chances are pretty good he would get some religion, pack his pistola up and go home. We have this circumstance because we put up with it.

[osan]

He's considered a very good officer. He has a good record.

Note the use of the present tense, he currently has a good record.

All bad records have to start somewhere.

[osan]

This cop needs to go to jail for life.

No. He needs to be publicly executed for murdering a citizen.

[Anti Federalist]

i've lived all over the usa and one thing i noticed is that in gun friendly states the cops tend to be more polite and careful in the way they approach and interact with "ordinary" citizens.

Here in wv the cops are generally pretty polite. They know they risk getting shot deader'n stone if they get cute. There are, of course, exceptions.

About 3 years ago our esteemed summers county sheriff, gary wheeler, got caught playing the fiddle with another man's wife. Hubby beat the living snot out of the sheriff and gary didn't dare do anything "official", like arresting him for assaulting an officer. Had he, chances are fair to middling he would have up and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. That's one of the reasons i like it here.

I've lived in seattle. It is a liberal shit-hole in terms of politics. That the cops there would such cowards doesn't surprise me in the least.

I feel there needs to be a serious reining-in of the police all over this nation. If people hung together and stopped putting up with this sort of crap, it would stop happening. If any cop trying this sort of thing was met by, say, a dozen pissed off locals all pointing guns at him, chances are pretty good he would get some religion, pack his pistola up and go home. We have this circumstance because we put up with it.

+1776

[osan]

While I understand your point, perhaps he was hostile towards police because they were pestering him for whittling. Also, this implies that the police knew the guy was increasingly hostile... so why bother him?

Because they can.

[osan]

Acting Deputy Chief Nick Metz said Tuesday that Birk was stopped in his car at a red light as he headed south on Boren when he spotted Williams walking in a crosswalk "carrying a wooden board and a knife."

There is )was??) a guy in Seattle who used to dress in full Japanese battle array, replete with katana and wakizashi. At first, Seattle cops had a shit when they say him parading around like that. By some miracle they failed to shoot his ass dead and got "used" to seeing him that way and left him alone. This attitude of forbearance appears to have gone the way of the dodo.

[Mach]

Some update, the witnesses, of course, were telling the truth.

------------------------

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013082467_shooting06m.html


* Autopsy report on John T. Williams' wounds (PDF)
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2010/10/05/2013082602.pdf)



Woodcarver was shot four times in his side by officer, autopsy shows

John T. Williams, the First Nations woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.

By Steve Miletich

Seattle Times staff reporter


John T. Williams, the woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.

"There's nothing looking like he was facing toward him," Seattle attorney Tim Ford said of Williams' position as the officer fired. "It was all right side."

Ford, in an interview with The Seattle Times, provided a portion of an autopsy report prepared by the King County Medical Examiner's Office relating to the gunshot wounds.

Ford questioned whether the officer needed to shoot if Williams wasn't directly facing him. "... Where is the threat?" he said.

Seattle police have previously said that Officer Ian Birk fired four rounds from a distance of nine to 10 feet. But police officials have not disclosed where Williams was struck, how many times or the precise positions of Birk and Williams.

Sgt. Sean Whitcomb, the department's chief spokesman, said he couldn't comment on autopsy results because of confidentiality rules governing the investigation.

Sgt. Rich O'Neill, the president of the Seattle Police Officers' Guild, said Tuesday that he could not comment on the shooting investigation. But O'Neill said, in general, an armed person who is standing sideways to an officer can still pose a threat.

Birk, 27, shot Williams at Boren Avenue and Howell Street after he stopped his patrol car at a red light and saw Williams carrying a small knife that turned out to be used for carving.

Williams, 50, who was a member of Nuu-Chah-Nulth First Nations in British Columbia, ignored three commands to drop the knife, police officials said. The department originally said Williams advanced on Birk, but later retreated on that statement.

Video from a camera in Birk's patrol car, which hasn't been made public, shows Williams crossing the street in front of Birk and, moments later, the officer crossing in front of his car to the northwest corner of Boren and Howell, Deputy Police Chief Nick Metz said at an Aug. 31 news briefing.

The camera did not capture video of the shooting, but Birk can be heard on an audio recording ordering Williams three times to drop the knife, Metz said at the briefing.

Williams collapsed on the sidewalk along Howell Street, where he was pronounced dead.

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Williams had been standing and facing north when he was struck by the shots, Ford said, citing witness accounts. Birk had approached Williams from the side, in an east-to-west direction, stopping just to the east of Williams, Ford said.

Williams was shot once in the right chest, with an exit wound in his left armpit, according to the autopsy report. A second shot entered the right side of Williams' chin, with an exit wound on the left side of his chin, the report said.

Williams was shot a third time in his upper right arm, the report said. The round exited the arm and then entered and exited his chest, according to the report.

A fourth shot struck Williams' right forearm, exiting through the upper arm, the report said.

Ford said that the autopsy didn't show in which order the shots were fired, but that ballistics experts might be able to determine that.

It has not been disclosed in which hand Williams was carrying the legal, 3-inch folding knife recovered by police at the scene.

The autopsy report also noted that a pair of headphones attached to an AM-FM radio were found with Williams' body, Ford said. The report didn't specify where the headphones were retrieved, Ford said.

Williams' family has said he probably didn't even hear the officer command him to drop the knife because he was deaf in one ear and wearing headphones.

Whitcomb, the police spokesman, said autopsy results were available to the department's Firearms Review Board, which completed a confidential inquiry into the shooting during a one-day proceeding that ended Monday evening.

The board was to determine if the shooting was justified, not justified or accidental and submit its preliminary findings to Police Chief John Diaz.

Diaz was to make his own preliminary confidential finding, pending an expected King County court inquest that could bring out more information.

In a written statement released Tuesday, the department said, the confidential preliminary findings have been submitted to Diaz. "Per Department Policy — and to support the integrity of the upcoming King County Inquest — the Department will not comment on any findings or recommendations," the statement said.

The Firearms Review Board will reconvene after the evaluation of criminal liability by the inquest jury and King County prosecutor, the statement said.

Birk, who joined the department about two years ago, will remain on routine paid administrative leave.

[dannno]

You know, it's pretty funny but I went to a rap concert in Seattle last year and I entered the establishment twice.. first, listened to some music, then went out to a bar with my friend and returned..

Both times I was searched and patted down at the door, and when I was in for the second time I was randomly going through my pockets and realized I had my knife on me.. in the concert.. I'd ACCIDENTALLY snuck it through security who did pat down searches TWICE!!

I had no idea it was illegal to carry knives in the city at all..

[Brian4Liberty]

The autopsy report also noted that a pair of headphones attached to an AM-FM radio were found with Williams' body, Ford said. The report didn't specify where the headphones were retrieved, Ford said.

Williams' family has said he probably didn't even hear the officer command him to drop the knife because he was deaf in one ear and wearing headphones.

Knew that was coming. Deaf or headphones, turns out to be both. What the hell is wrong with our Police training? This shoot first, ask questions later bs has to stop.

[dannno]

^Wow.

[youngbuck]

Knew that was coming. Deaf or headphones, turns out to be both. What the hell is wrong with our Police training? This shoot first, ask questions later bs has to stop.

This is not even close to just being a matter of police training. It's a matter of common sense, respect, self-control, and discretion. More and more cops seem to be lacking these nowadays.

If you ask me, this was murder.

[Brian4Liberty]

This is not even close to just being a matter of police training. It's a matter of common sense, respect, self-control, and discretion. More and more cops seem to be lacking these nowadays.

If you ask me, this was murder.

Oh you mean if he used his brain instead of being programmed like a robot? ;)

[ChickenHawk]

You know, it's pretty funny but I went to a rap concert in Seattle last year and I entered the establishment twice.. first, listened to some music, then went out to a bar with my friend and returned..

Both times I was searched and patted down at the door, and when I was in for the second time I was randomly going through my pockets and realized I had my knife on me.. in the concert.. I'd ACCIDENTALLY snuck it through security who did pat down searches TWICE!!

I had no idea it was illegal to carry knives in the city at all..

It's not. Only fixed blades and knives over 3.5" are illegal to carry concealed. The knife the whittling guy had was legal.

[Reason]

YouTube - Shooting Of Woodcarver John T Williams NOT Justified! Preliminary Finding By Seattle Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o58qvWmSgz4)

[fedup100]

The cop is a murder, needs to tried and sent to the gallows.

[jclay2]

The cop is a murder, needs to tried and sent to the gallows.

nope, instead he gets a paid vacation. What an awesome system. The cop gets to stay at home and play Halo for murder. Isn't the government great! And they say that only cops should have guns. What a joke.

[Acala]

This is the result of standard training.

Cops are now trained that a suspect with a knife in hand is a deadly threat anywhere within 21 feet of the officer. This has also been erroneously taught as "you are justified in shooting anyone with a knife within 21 feet if they do not respond to command".

See:

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/

The police in this country have been turned into killing machines. Even the "good" cops that are not sadistic bullies have been trained into being hair-trigger mayhem makers.

[Anti Federalist]

This is the result of standard training.

Cops are now trained that a suspect with a knife in hand is a deadly threat anywhere within 21 feet of the officer. This has also been erroneously taught as "you are justified in shooting anyone with a knife within 21 feet if they do not respond to command".

See:

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/

The police in this country have been turned into killing machines. Even the "good" cops that are not sadistic bullies have been trained into being hair-trigger mayhem makers.

^^^^ Is correct. :mad:

[Bern]

Inquest begins: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/433244_inquest12.html

Witness testimony: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2013914908.html

Dashcam video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=956_1292627716

[amy31416]

From the Witness testimony Bern posted:

Ford=Williams' family attorney
Birk=Cop that killed Williams
Williams=Victim


Ford said this seemed contrary to the officer's earlier description of Williams. The attorney pointed out that in Birk's "use of force" statement — required of officers after they use force in the performance of their duties — Birk said Williams was "oblivious" and showed "complete disregard" to the fact that he was crossing the intersection in front of the officer's patrol car.

Ford read from Birk's statement to investigators and played the radio call the officer made immediately after shooting Williams. Ford points out that in both instances Birk reported the "subject wouldn't drop the knife," but did not mention being fearful of an impending attack.

Ford also asked Birk whether he was trained in de-escalating tense situations. Birk said he was and that he had successfully used the techniques in the past.

Ford again played the dash-cam video and audio from Birk's patrol car in which Birk can be heard yelling, "Hey, hey, hey," followed by three commands to "Put down the knife."

Ford then asked if Birk could point out "the places where you are not trying to be overbearing and intimidating?"

Ford asked Birk to demonstrate the "aggressive" move he said Williams made toward him before the shooting. The officer made a half turn with a pen in his hand to simulate the knife Williams held.

Ford asked Birk if he continued to move toward Williams after he ordered him to drop the knife. Birk said he did not.

Ford then showed the dash-cam video that shows Birk's shadow moving toward Williams after he began yelling at Williams to put the knife down.

Birk also testified that he was surprised to find that Williams' knife was closed after the shooting.

Birk said that after he shot Williams, the officer put his foot on the closed knife near Williams' body because he knew it was important evidence and for "officer safety."

"Did you think, 'My God, the knife is closed?' " asked Ford.

"It did surprise me having just seen Mr. Williams with the knife in his hand," said Birk.

[fisharmor]

So, quick question about what happens if hell actually freezes over and he gets sentenced to prison...
Where do sentenced cops go?
I'd have trouble believing they go to the general prison population - I don't think they'd last a week.
So does that mean the public gets to support separate prisons?

(Yes, I know the answer to "where to murdering cops go" is actually "to another department" - I'm just fantasizing about what would happen if they had to sentence one.)