Pastor Chuck Baldwin moves to Montana

[Agorism]

Any senate or other openings there?

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin613.htm

[james1906]

Once the locals stop running him off the road for having Florida license plates, he'll be elected to office.

[Baptist]

If we stay in the states, we will be heading to Montana in 3 years. No offense to the free-staters, but the West is where it's at.

[sailingaway]

I sort of wish Ron had, he'd have Senate in the bag. there are a ton of Ron Paul supporters in Montana, so its more a matter of 'what does he want' that an RP supporter isn't already going for...

[t0rnado]

God has led us to the conviction that Montana (along with other Mountain states) is going to be the tip of the spear in the freedom fight; and we believe God wants us to be part of that fight.

What the fuck

[jclay2]

What the fuck

What, would you rather prefer he move to Massachusetts?

[daviddee]

...

[Vessol]

Well he couldn't have chosen a better state to move to IMO.

If I could I'd move back to Montana in a heartbeat. But not much educational or job opportunities there..

This ad was a big WTF though

http://www.newswithviews.com/images/Bannors/blood315x55.gif

[daviddee]

...

[Monarchist]

I do not want left wing wackos running my life, but I really, really do not want Religious wackos running it. The left wing wants my money and guns... The religious nuts have a tendency for killing and burning... justified by the good book.

Do you know anything about Chuck Baldwin other than the silly caricature you cooked up in your head?

[FrankRep]

The Liberty movement is slowly but surely being hijacked by the religious nut jobs. They want freedom... Freedom to impose their will upon thee.

The Liberty movement in America was started by religious Nut jobs, the founding fathers!


The War on Religion (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html)

Rep. Ron Paul, MD



The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.

[daviddee]

...

[heavenlyboy34]

If we stay in the states, we will be heading to Montana in 3 years. No offense to the free-staters, but the West is where it's at.

Except for California. ;):eek:

[libertybrewcity]

Well he couldn't have chosen a better state to move to IMO.

If I could I'd move back to Montana in a heartbeat. But not much educational or job opportunities there..

This ad was a big WTF though

http://www.newswithviews.com/images/Bannors/blood315x55.gif

WTF is right.

[libertybrewcity]

I had some religious nut job come up to me at the Glenn Beck rally and say that Jesus Christ is all we need. He said, I started reading the prophecies and they have all come true so far. He started talking about the 2nd coming of Christ.

If i wasn't holding the Ron Paul sign I would have told him to get the hell out of my face. I respect believers but there is a line that once is crossed, I want no association.

[low preference guy]

in before the thread turns into a religious flame war.

[james1906]

http://www.newswithviews.com/images/Bannors/blood315x55.gif
Looks like a campy slasher movie.

[daviddee]

...

[puppetmaster]

Except for California. ;):eek:


add Oregon, Western Washington......LOL

[speciallyblend]

Whether it be: Religions whack jobs, homosexuals, or various other militant groups... They have some sort of mental defect that forces them to reveal themselves within two minutes of conversation. Like clock work I have to hear about when someone came out of the closet, when they found Jesus/Allah/Santa Claus, and that for some reason we are all so special that "he" is coming in our lifetime.

When I go to Liberty rallies, Ron Paul, etc. you can tell the whackjobs who are looking to co-opt the movement pretty quick. As once you speak about true Liberty issues they shutdown and start murmering "Jesus" "Jesus"

There was a good post about this the other day on Market Ticker:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=165544

that about sums it up! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I voted for Chuck Baldwin but i in no way endorse the cp! I couldn't vote for mccain after what the gop did to ron paul republicans at conventions in colorado, nevada and almost every other state!! the cp convention turns me off to the party! reminded me of a bad church sermon, but that plays to the cp members not me!!

Chuck Baldwin and the cp/tp/lp members would be more effective in the gop as republicans but i guess they don't get what Ron Paul is saying!!

If we cannot secure a GOP Ron Paul nomination. Then i can only pray Ron Paul breaks ranks because of the gop's failures but i highly doubt that since Ron paul has said no on this himself! back to square one it seems after yrs of supporting Ron Paul!! Liberty Party maybe?? if the ron paul republicans and the tp/cp/lp and indy's would stop sitting on their azzez and form a new brandname/party if the gop fails us!! Then we might go further in the near future but alot has to happen until then i guess!!

[Sola_Fide]

What the fuck


I wouldn't dismiss the reason that some people come to the idea of Liberty.

I don't dismiss the pot-heads who come to the message of Liberty because they want to smoke in freedom. I also don't dismiss the Christians who come to the Liberty movement guided by faith.

We are all seeking the same political goal...

[amy31416]

Do you know anything about Chuck Baldwin other than the silly caricature you cooked up in your head?

OOOOOOOHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....until this post, I was thinking that you guys were talking about Alex Baldwin or his funny-looking brother, and I was quite perplexed.

Makes sense now, except I don't think that Chuck comes off as a religious fanatic as others have said. I'm not thrilled about the CP, but it's probably better than the GOP.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Once the locals stop running him off the road for having Florida license plates, he'll be elected to office.


Draft Chuck for Governor!

The notion that Chuck Baldwin could get elected anything significant, especially a statewide election, is pretty hilarious.

But Montana is a great state. And really, the state I've always thought should have been the free staters' target instead of New Hampshire; which continues to be infested by democrat-voting Massholes at a rate much greater than the 'FSP' can ever hope to match.


Whether it be: Religions whack jobs, homosexuals, or various other militant groups... They have some sort of mental defect that forces them to reveal themselves within two minutes of conversation.

Haha, you mean like you in this thread? You saw a "Chuck Baldwin moves to Montana" thread and apparently felt weirdly possessed to go into a anti-religious rant over it. Don't think for one second that there aren't a group of atheists, like any other religion, that want to shove their beliefs in unwanting peoples' faces too.

[nobody's_hero]

I wouldn't dismiss the reason that some people come to the idea of Liberty.

I don't dismiss the pot-heads who come to the message of Liberty because they want to smoke in freedom. I also don't dismiss the Christians who come to the Liberty movement guided by faith.

We are all seeking the same political goal...

True. The "Black Regiment's" rally cry during the lead-up to the War for Independence was, "No king but king Jesus." Now, you don't have to believe in kings or Jesus, or Jesus kings, or whatever, but apparently it worked. Christians at that time believed that God was the provider, and there was no need for government hand-outs and creeping-control. Some might think it's a bunch of silly nonsense, but at least that line of thinking helped get government off of our backs.

[NewFederalist]

I wonder just how well the Baldwins will do in Montana? After reading the article I am still unclear if the move is to start another ministry or to find a more fertile place to become politically active.

[james1906]

The notion that Chuck Baldwin could get elected anything significant, especially a statewide election, is pretty hilarious.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Jore

[Baptist]

Daviddee, you should ridicule and slander people more often. It's a good way to bring them around to your position.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Jore

Sigh. I see I need to repeat myself, even though you quoted the exact same sentence:


The notion that Chuck Baldwin could get elected anything significant, especially a statewide election, is pretty hilarious.

A middling state house seat is not, to me anyway, "significant."

And I doubt Baldwin could win even that. Much less anything actually important like U.S. House, U.S. Senate or Governor.

[Agorism]

I think he could get elected.

[Sola_Fide]

True. The "Black Regiment's" rally cry during the lead-up to the War for Independence was, "No king but king Jesus." Now, you don't have to believe in kings or Jesus, or Jesus kings, or whatever, but apparently it worked. Christians at that time believed that God was the provider, and there was no need for government hand-outs and creeping-control. Some might think it's a bunch of silly nonsense, but at least that line of thinking helped get government off of our backs.

Exactly...

[YumYum]

I spent time growing up in Montana. Railroad communities hate outsiders. Because the movie stars and rich people have bought ranches up there, there is an increasing hatred by the native Montanans for people who move there from out-of-state. Its no fun if you want to be a part of the community.

There is a religious cult north of Yellowstone called the "Hutterites". Because they do not marry anyone outside of their cult, they have had serious problems with children being born with Down Syndrome and also hemophilia due to inbreeding. They literally posted an advertisement in the Bozeman college newsletter wanting young, good looking, intelligent, strong/ healthy young men to breed their young women to bring new blood into their group.

Montana is a breeding ground for religious cults, like the group C.U.T. (Church Universal and Triumphant) founded by the late Elizabeth Clare Prophet.

[American Idol]

Do you know anything about Chuck Baldwin other than the silly caricature you cooked up in your head?

Pssst...I wonder if they realize that he was endorsed for President in 2008 by some guy named Ron Paul...:rolleyes:

[FrankRep]

True. The "Black Regiment's" rally cry during the lead-up to the War for Independence was, "No king but king Jesus." Now, you don't have to believe in kings or Jesus, or Jesus kings, or whatever, but apparently it worked. Christians at that time believed that God was the provider, and there was no need for government hand-outs and creeping-control. Some might think it's a bunch of silly nonsense, but at least that line of thinking helped get government off of our backs.

Chuck Baldwin: Resurrecting The Black Regiment; Patriot-Preachers of Colonial America
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=208698

[UnReconstructed]

I like Montana and I am the same denomination as Baldwin and I had hoped to visit his church in P'Cola. That being said, I am also anarchist and don't support any government other than self governance. I also don't support hate and ignorance. I don't know who controls the ads on that site but this is pretty bad:

http://www.newswithviews.com/images/Bannors/blood315x55.gif

Christians aren't going to reach many gays with ads like that right in the middle of blog.

Also, NH and the FSP are the "tip of the spear". That is where we are going hopefully, next summer.

[amy31416]

I spent time growing up in Montana. Railroad communities hate outsiders. Because the movie stars and rich people have bought ranches up there, there is an increasing hatred by the native Montanans for people who move there from out-of-state. Its no fun if you want to be a part of the community.

There is a religious cult north of Yellowstone called the "Hutterites". Because they do not marry anyone outside of their cult, they have had serious problems with children being born with Down Syndrome and also hemophilia due to inbreeding. They literally posted an advertisement in the Bozeman college newsletter wanting young, good looking, intelligent, strong/ healthy young men to breed their young women to bring new blood into their group.

Montana is a breeding ground for religious cults, like the group C.U.T. (Church Universal and Triumphant) founded by the late Elizabeth Clare Prophet.

Man. That is quite a sales pitch....Montana it is!

[BlackSand]

Anything in the constitution that says states cant be as religious as they want? I say Chuck Baldwin FTW!

Also when I first saw the thread, i thought you meant Alec...or Jane Cobb (dont remember his real name).

[UnReconstructed]

I spent time growing up in Montana. Railroad communities hate outsiders. Because the movie stars and rich people have bought ranches up there, there is an increasing hatred by the native Montanans for people who move there from out-of-state. Its no fun if you want to be a part of the community.

There is a religious cult north of Yellowstone called the "Hutterites". Because they do not marry anyone outside of their cult, they have had serious problems with children being born with Down Syndrome and also hemophilia due to inbreeding. They literally posted an advertisement in the Bozeman college newsletter wanting young, good looking, intelligent, strong/ healthy young men to breed their young women to bring new blood into their group.

Montana is a breeding ground for religious cults, like the group C.U.T. (Church Universal and Triumphant) founded by the late Elizabeth Clare Prophet.

I believe this to be true.

[Cowlesy]

Always have been a fan of Chuck Baldwin. Sometimes his columns get a little too black helicopter to me, but I maintain he gives the best freedom-sermons I've ever heard on his church's Sunday AM Livestream.

Good for Chuck and his 17 family members who are moving to Montana. I hope the move goes easily for them, and that he continues to write and preach!

[ChaosControl]

Montana is a good state. Any of the North-West area is good once you go east of the cascade mountains.

[Wesker1982]

Its going to be a bit colder here than in Florida.

[Southron]

Wonder what kind of freedom fighting they will be doing with 900,000 residents. Seems more like a place you would go to escape people.

I don't doubt the locals won't be happy with outsiders trying to change things.

[pcosmar]

Wonder what kind of freedom fighting they will be doing with 900,000 residents. Seems more like a place you would go to escape people.

I don't doubt the locals won't be happy with outsiders trying to change things.

Who says he is trying to "change" things? It seems that there are a lot of freedom minded folks in Montana.
Perhaps he is just going to join them.
:cool:

[Cowlesy]

Who says he is trying to "change" things? It seems that there are a lot of freedom minded folks in Montana.
Perhaps he is just going to join them.
:cool:

That, and maybe people there convinced him to join them, but one never can be sure.

[AuH2O]

There is a religious cult north of Yellowstone called the "Hutterites". Because they do not marry anyone outside of their cult, they have had serious problems with children being born with Down Syndrome and also hemophilia due to inbreeding. They literally posted an advertisement in the Bozeman college newsletter wanting young, good looking, intelligent, strong/ healthy young men to breed their young women to bring new blood into their group.

Montana is a breeding ground for religious cults, like the group C.U.T. (Church Universal and Triumphant) founded by the late Elizabeth Clare Prophet.

Easy on the rhetoric dude, the Hutterites are a legitimite Anabaptist religious sect, just like the Amish or the Mennonites.

And in regard to the "WTF?" that set off the religious tangent -- it's so crazy that a PASTOR might say that God had a hand in a major life decision like moving halfway across the country? Davidee, you should probably relax a bit, otherwise your atheism might get even more zealous than any evangelical's Christianity.

[Cowlesy]

Easy on the rhetoric dude, the Hutterites are a legitimite Anabaptist religious sect, just like the Amish or the Mennonites.

And in regard to the "WTF?" that set off the religious tangent -- it's so crazy that a PASTOR might say that God had a hand in a major life decision like moving halfway across the country? Davidee, you should probably relax a bit, otherwise your atheism might get even more zealous than any evangelical's Christianity.

He's just trollin'; sometimes we forget that not everyone knows YumYum is here for the lulz.

[YumYum]

He's just trollin'; sometimes we forget that not everyone knows YumYum is here for the lulz.

Coming from a mod, you are joking, right?

[jmdrake]

I love the rewriting of history by religious whack jobs.

Please reference where it states in the founding documents of this country anything about religion... other than the explicit rule against a religious test to hold office.

Now compare that to today where every religious whackjob even remotely related to politics feels it their right to insert it whenever they can... as you have.

Disregarding your disillusion, and soon to be cherry picked examples, a large percentage of this country did not want this country to become a theocracy... as many today would like it to be.

I take it you don't think the declaration of independence is a "founding document" then? :rolleyes:

Anyway, did you read the author of the article Frank posted? It was Ron Paul. Care to change your definition of "religious whack job"? Whether you think this country was founded by religious people, the Ron Paul movement itself was founded by one. I don't 100% agree with Dr. Paul in his "war on religion" assessment (more like 85 - 90%) but I'm not so naive as to think a movement started by an overt Christian [b]who later endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president" has been "taken over" by "religious whackjobs". If anything it's been infiltrated by militant atheists. If both sides could realize the common enemy is the state we might get somewhere. If not, this movement is eventually just going to splinter.

[silentshout]

Trading one batch of extremists for another batch is not progress.

The Liberty movement is slowly but surely being hijacked by the religious nut jobs. They want freedom... Freedom to impose their will upon thee.

Look no further than Beck's religious rally this weekend. Slowly the "Tea Party" and Liberty Movements are being overtaken by the nutters.

I do not want left wing wackos running my life, but I really, really do not want Religious wackos running it. The left wing wants my money and guns... The religious want submission and have a long history of imposing their will with killing and burning... justified by the good book. Government, Religion, etc... control mechanisms. Run from them.

this.

[Brian4Liberty]

Divide and conquer...everyone take a side, quick. Somewhere Bill Kristol is smiling...

---

Let's take our Red Herring test:

- Emotional? Check.
- Dedicated and vocal opposing forces, split approximately 50/50? Check.
- Utterly meaningless to the Oligarchy (except as a Red Herring)? Check.
- Religious, racial or ethnic undertones? Check.
- Mostly meaningless in fiscal government terms? Check.

Gentlemen (and Ladies), we have a Red Herring...

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/shite/red_herring3.jpg

[speciallyblend]

Who says he is trying to "change" things? It seems that there are a lot of freedom minded folks in Montana.
Perhaps he is just going to join them.
:cool:

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ montana is better then anything east of denver!!

[Vessol]

Yumyum made a partially correct assertion that Montanan's hate outsiders.

This is partially true as many Californians and Texans recently have moved up to Montana and bought tons of land and then don't use it. Many are rich, snotty and try to bring their ideas to Montana.
One example I'll use that pissed many people off is that a Californian man bought a house that was next to a cattle farm. He then tried suing the cattle farm for the smells of the cattle next to his house.

If you move to Montana, don't be like that. Montanans are very much culturally libertarian and anti-Federalist. It's also a very beautiful state, IMO the most beautiful considering how sparsely populated it is.

[ChaosControl]

This is partially true as many Californians and Texans recently have moved up to Montana and bought tons of land and then don't use it. Many are rich, snotty and try to bring their ideas to Montana.

Many Californians moved up to Washington and turned this state into California Jr. I can understand Montana's dislike of carpetbaggers.

Kind of like all the Massholes who move to NH and **** things up there. I hate these people who screw stuff up then move to a place less screwed up only to **** it over too.

[Indy Vidual]

...There is a religious cult north of Yellowstone called the "Hutterites". Because they do not marry anyone outside of their cult, they have had serious problems with children being born with Down Syndrome and also hemophilia due to inbreeding....

Yum Yum? :eek:

[fj45lvr]

Except for California. ;):eek:

Oregon and Washington are left wing enclaves too (at least the metropolitan areas that have the majority of voters)....Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah all have serious potential. Nevada is turning due to Vegas populous.

[LibertyEagle]

Anyway, did you read the author of the article Frank posted? It was Ron Paul. Care to change your definition of "religious whack job"? Whether you think this country was founded by religious people, the Ron Paul movement itself was founded by one. I don't 100% agree with Dr. Paul in his "war on religion" assessment (more like 85 - 90%) but I'm not so naive as to think a movement started by an overt Christian [b]who later endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president" has been "taken over" by "religious whackjobs". If anything it's been infiltrated by militant atheists. If both sides could realize the common enemy is the state we might get somewhere. If not, this movement is eventually just going to splinter.

+1

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Can it with the rude as all hell insults against Christians! I find it more than curious that the same people who talk of liberty out of one side of their mouth, just cannot manage to not bash Christians every chance they get, out of the other. Or does the idea of liberty only come up when someone hates God as much as you do?

Ron Paul is a Christian and this forum bears his name. If you think he is a a "fanatic" or "extremist" because he holds those beliefs, why are you here?

LE most people who like Ron Paul could care less about his religion because he neither wears it on his sleeve, nor does he try and "convert" everyone. It's fine if you are religious, but those of who aren't spiritual/religious/what have you, generally don't take too kindly to being bullied over the head with it. Take for instance Jehovah's Witnesses....that shit is annoying and rightfully pisses a lot of people off.

Of course there are the militant atheists, but its more blowback because of militant Christians, and vice versa. They feed off each other. Besides, many people are rightfully worried about a Theocracy which is every bit as tyrannical or more tyrannical than our current State, especially given the fact that many many evangelicals are highly politically conservative (E.g. outlaw any activity not condoned in the Bible).

I also find it a tad bit amusing you correlate Christianity with liberty, but whatever. :D

[LibertyEagle]

I also find it a tad bit amusing you correlate Christianity with liberty, but whatever. :D

Yeah, amazing isn't it? :rolleyes:



“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” -- Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Virginia (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch15s28.html)

Samuel Adams when discussing how to understand the Declaration of Independence:

In short, it is the greatest absurdity to suppose it in the power of one, or any number of men, at the entering into society, to renounce their essential natural rights, or the means of preserving those rights; when the grand end of civil government, from the very nature of its institution, is for the support, protection, and defence of those very rights; the principal of which, as is before observed, are Life, Liberty, and Property. If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.
...
These [rights] may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.
The Rights of the Colonists, by Samuel Adams (http://www.constitution.org/bcp/right_col.htm)

Samual Adams when the Declaration of Independence was signed:

“We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.”

Benjamin Franklin to George Whitefield, March 1764.

A bible and a newspaper in every house, a good school in every district – all studied and appreciated as they merit – are the principal support of virtue, morality, and civil liberty.



Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death
Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775.

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

[Sola_Fide]

I also find it a tad bit amusing you correlate Christianity with liberty, but whatever. :D


It's weird, I always find it amusing that people correlate atheism with Liberty, since the most "altrustic" political systems in history have been the atheistic communist systems.:)



When Ayn argued against altruism as a virtue, she had atheistic Communism in mind more than Christian America.

[Matt Collins]

Chuck Baldwin is not necessarily a theocrat. Try reading some of his writings in full.

[Cowlesy]

I find it a bit amusing how the heavy "anti-State" people bash Baldwin for being a Pastor, given how much he rails against the State while not advocating for a theocracy, but rather we all peacefully co-exist.

Who did Ron Paul endorse for President of the United States in 2008? Chuck Baldwin.

There's a reason I don't bash people like Richard Dawkins; because while I may have a thin idea about what he stands for, I haven't read his work, so piling on when people start thumping him is just mob mentality.

[jmdrake]

LE most people who like Ron Paul could care less about his religion because he neither wears it on his sleeve, nor does he try and "convert" everyone. It's fine if you are religious, but those of who aren't spiritual/religious/what have you, generally don't take too kindly to being bullied over the head with it. Take for instance Jehovah's Witnesses....that shit is annoying and rightfully pisses a lot of people off.


How do you know for a fact that Ron Paul doesn't? Are you with him every waking hour? You see his political persona and assume rightly or wrongly that's the whole man. He endorsed Chuck Baldwin for president. That should tell you something. As a member of a southern baptist church in good and regular standing, I would bet you a dime to a dollar that if he has never tried to evangelize himself, he has donated money that in part went to evangelism either in the U.S. or abroad. Also why is it any worse for Jehovah's Witnesses to knock on doors to try to "covert" people to their view of eternity, but ok for Ron Paul supporters across the country to call people and interrupt their evening to support X, Y or Z candidate? We are about to enter a presidential election cycle where all of us will be asked, and many will volunteer, to knock on doors in places like Iowa and New Hampshire as well as our own neighborhoods. We will be looking for political "converts". Something to think about when bashing others.

[Southron]

You know, I wish him the best in Montana. It just seems like a good place to fade into obscurity.

Fair or not, he's probably going to get less coverage that far away from the East (socialist) coast. Perhaps he doesn't mind.

[Agorism]

bump

YouTube - The Constitution Party returns ~ Baldwin 08' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdKbThyFMtk)

YouTube - Buck for Chuck~* 9-20-08 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-xSDlSISSY&feature=related)