Anti-vaccination statistics

[WaltM]

For those who say "we shouldn't get vaccines because I've heard people get brain damage"

Let's for the sake of argument, say that it's found to be a direct cause.

Name your poison, autism, brain damage, or even death.

Do you base your fears on % probability?

Or, if there's a way to find out if your child is a vulnerable and a have a way to measure whether they're at risk of side effects, would that help?

Because if your attitude is "if there's ANY RISK AT ALL", what AREN'T you afraid to do?

Do you drive ? Or only because you have to?
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Are there other things you do which you KNOW have a 1/100M chance of getting you killed, but don't let the numbers bother you? Granted, when it DOES happen to you, the numbers are irrelevant, but is it warranted and reasonable to avoid doing things based on such small probability?

[Working Poor]

I don't care what link you post I know I stand a pretty good chance of living without having a vaccine.

[olehounddog]

It's not as much the vaccine as it is government telling me I have no choice. Let me decide which if any I want for me or my children.

[ScoutsHonor]

Here's the opinion of the Natural News Editor, Mike Adams:

The Information Page is also well worth the viewing. It's time we dealt with facts, as opposed to giving mindless support to a very dangerous program.


YouTube - Vaccine Zombie video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYI-dC9G0us)
http://www.naturalnews.com/029598_Vaccine_Zombie_vaccination.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/029598_Vaccine_Zombie_vaccination.html)

[Jandrsn21]

Walt this is what the vaccination is all about.

It is the mercury in the vaccines as a preservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

"The element mercury is an ingredient in dental amalgams. Thiomersal (called Thimerosal in the United States) is an organic compound used as a preservative in vaccines, though this use is in decline.[46]"

Mercury if you didn't know is an EXTREMELY toxic metal!

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/effects.htm

"For fetuses, infants, and children, the primary health effect of methylmercury is impaired neurological development. Methylmercury exposure in the womb, which can result from a mother's consumption of fish and shellfish that contain methylmercury, can adversely affect a baby's growing brain and nervous system. Impacts on cognitive thinking, memory, attention, language, and fine motor and visual spatial skills have been seen in children exposed to methylmercury in the womb"

"Symptoms include these: tremors; emotional changes (e.g., mood swings, irritability, nervousness, excessive shyness); insomnia; neuromuscular changes (such as weakness, muscle atrophy, twitching); headaches; disturbances in sensations; changes in nerve responses; performance deficits on tests of cognitive function. At higher exposures there may be kidney effects, respiratory failure and death. People concerned about their exposure to elemental mercury should consult their physician."

That is the whole debate wrapped up in these links.

A mercury compound has been used in the vaccines for decades. Mercury can cause a whole slew of problems. It isn't rocket science, if you decide to get the flu vaccine this year, ask your doctor, does the vaccine have mercury in it. If he doesn't know or says yes. DON'T TAKE IT!

The problem most have with this is the whole conspiracy aspect of the debate. RFK jr and many others believe that certain aspects of the government know about this and have done nothing to stop it. The other part to this is the 2009 flu vaccine was recommended to mainly pregnant women, children, and young adults. You saw the link to the EPA saying what mercury will do to a child and a fetus. It is catastrophic irreversible damage!

People need to find out if the vaccines you are taking has mercury in them, plain and simple. Leave the conspiracy out of it, leave the "scientific facts" out of it. Mercury kills, plain and simple.

This is my opinion and I don't mean to sound cold. If you KNOWINGLY take a vaccine for yourself that has this mercury compound in it, then you deserve what you get. If a child or a pregnant women take it, then may god have mercy on their brain dead souls!

[Zippyjuan]

A mercury compound has been used in the vaccines for decades. Mercury can cause a whole slew of problems.
Only partially true. You are trying to combine two unrelated things here.

Let me point out a couple of things about mercury (which I have posted here before). First, mercury (as a component of thimerisol) is not used in vaccines intended to be given to children so they are not at risk. Secondly, there are two types of mercury- ethyl mercury and methyl mercury. Ethyl mercury is the sort which has been used as a preservative in vaccines (yes, it was used in some versions of the H1N1 vaccine but thimerisol free versions were also available and not in ones intended for children). This type is much less reactive and does not accumulate in the body (it has a half life within the body of seven days). It is also used in incredibly small amounts. Thimerisol is 50% mercury by weight. The vaccines which do contain it may have up to 25 micrograms per dose (for those not metrically inclined, that would be 8.8 times ten to the minus 7th or 0.00000088 ounces- suffice it to say that this is a really, really small amount). One microgram is 1/1,000,000 of a gram. One pound is 454 grams so if you are a person who weighs 150 pounds, that is 68,100 grams of body weight getting .000025 grams of ethyl mercury.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylmercury

Ethylmercury
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search

Ethylmercury (sometimes ethyl mercury) is a cation composed of an ethyl group bound to a mercury(II) centre; its chemical formula is C2H5Hg+. Ethylmercury is sometimes used as a generic term to describe organomercury compounds which include ethylmercury such as ethylmercury chloride and ethylmercury urea.

Ethylmercury is one of the metabolites of thiomersal,[1] which is used as a preservative in some vaccines. Thiomersal is the ethylmercury-releasing compound sodium ethylmercuric thiosalicylate, C9H9HgNaO2S, which is made from the combination of ethyl mercuric chloride, thiosalicylic acid, sodium hydroxide and ethanol.

Unlike methylmercury, ethylmercury has not been found to bioaccumulate.[2] The toxicity of ethylmercury is not well studied, but exposure standards based on methylmercury (such as those currently recommended by the United States Environmental Protection Agency‎) are not demonstrated to be equivalent for ethylmercury.[3]


The other type is methyl mercury. This is the more toxic form and it can accumilate in fatty tissues in the body. This is the one you want to watch out for- but it is not the type used in any sort of vaccine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylmercury


Methylmercury (sometimes methyl mercury) is an organometallic cation with the formula [CH3Hg]+. It is a bioaccumulative environmental toxicant.



[edit] Structure
"Methylmercury" is a shorthand for "monomethylmercury", and is more correctly "monomethylmercuric cation". It is composed of a methyl group (CH3-) bonded to a mercury atom; its chemical formula is CH3Hg+ (sometimes written as MeHg+). As a positively charged ion it readily combines with anions such as chloride (Cl−), hydroxide (OH-) and nitrate (NO3−). It also has very high affinity for sulfur-containing anions, particularly the thiol (-SH) groups on the amino acid cysteine and hence in proteins containing cysteine, forming a covalent bond. More than one cysteine moiety may coordinate with methylmercury,[1] and methylmercury may migrate to other metal-binding sites in proteins.[2]



Human health effects
Ingested methylmercury is readily and completely absorbed by the gastrointestinal tract. It is mostly found complexed with free cysteine and with proteins and peptides containing that amino acid. The methylmercuric-cysteinyl complex is recognized by amino acid transporting proteins in the body as methionine, another essential amino acid.[10] Because of this mimicry, it is transported freely throughout the body including across the blood-brain barrier and across the placenta, where it is absorbed by the developing fetus. Also for this reason as well as its strong binding to proteins, methylmercury is not readily eliminated. Methylmercury has a half-life in human blood of about 50 days.[11]


This is the sort of mercury described in the post above.

My thoughts on vaccines? Yes for the childhood vaccinations with exceptions for things like HepB. Flu vaccine? Personal choice. Don't see the need for it myself. I do agree that H1N1 and its vaccine was massively overhyped.

If you would like to be an informed consumer (which is a good thing), this page has a list of vaccines and their allowable amounts (if any) for thimerisol and ethyl mercury. http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228.htm

[Jandrsn21]

Definitely good info.

I wasn't using the methyl mercury quote from the EPA to describe the effects on the body from the vaccine form. Since ethyl mercury isn't well tested, ( yet injected into our bodies ) I had to go for the other effects of mercury that we know. Now I understand, that different compounds of the same element will have completely different effects on the body. I just find it most alarming that ethyl mercury is something so widely accepted and used is being injected into people, with no indication of what it is does. The FDA has really dropped the ball on this one.

I do agree with your assessment on the flu hype. We are just vaccine crazy these days. I am not going for the genocide conspiracy. But you could think of the corporate interests teaming up with the FDA and the WHO. Same with the EPA and IPCC.

At this point It is safe to say, we have very little clue about how the world works. A group of "scientists" were able to convince a large portion of the population that Global Warming was going to kill us all. My point is unless you know for certain you should tread carefully. It is clear at this point the government has no interest in your health, well being, or future. Everything they do needs to be questioned.

Also my rule of thumb is, if the government and all the major news programs are reporting it or advocating it, think or do the opposite :)

[Golding]

It's not as much the vaccine as it is government telling me I have no choice. Let me decide which if any I want for me or my children.I agree with this. I think MMR is a fine vaccine, but people deserve to decide whether they get injected with it.

[YumYum]

This country is having an epidemic of young people and young adults with autism. I went to a meeting on autism at Vanderbelt Medical and heard testimony from parents that their child was normal until they got a vaccination. I know someone personally that became autistic from vaccinations.

[Zippyjuan]

Autism rates began to rise in the 1990's- when the definition of autism was changed to include a wide range of conditions. Those conditions used to be classified as something else such as perhaps mild retardation. At the same time as autism rates rose, the diagnosis of these other consitions went down by a comparable amount- reflecting more a change in diagnosis rather than in increased incidence of autism. It is now called "autism spectrum disease" rather than autism to reflect the expanded definition. If you added oranges (a bad example) to what you call apples, suddenly your total number of what are called apples will soar. But the number of what was once called apples does not necessarily rise. Autism is identified based on the development (or lack thereof) of children at a particular age- as early as 18 months or as late as three years. This time period also coinsides with the ages for some vaccinations but that is not proof that the vaccines caused the condition. Autism rates have also risen with TV viewing increases. Perhaps it is TV causing it?

[Jandrsn21]

Walt it could be the broad spectrum you talk about. Classification of new and more broad illnesses is a good way to sell pills! My parents and grandparents are shocked about how many kids are diagnosed with these problems. They said in their day things like this didn't exist. If a kid had "add" what they called laziness, he would get a firm spanking and sent to study. Problem solved I'd say. lol My grandpa was so strict on behavior he would often spank us before he left us to the baby sitter, "in case we decided to act up!" guess what we didn't, we did our homework, we were good, when he was around lol.

Today's responses to kid's health is horrible. Just dump as many pills and vaccines into them, for all the problems we find wrong. Your kid acts up, give him some Ritalin. Guess what kids act up!! You have to teach them to act in line, period. I think most of today's kids problems have to due with the food, tv, and lack of discipline. Kids are poisoned these days, coke, artificial sweeteners, fast food, junk food, maybe the vaccines, and fluoridated water. It is getting pretty bad. Kids need good nutrition, from embryo to adulthood. Organic raw food, reverse osmosis for their water, limit junk food and candy. Some parents are just really bad about this. For tens of thousands of years, people have ate only natural food, our bodies need it, or we get what we have today, record cancer, heart disease, sickness, autism. It is really catastrophic. Parents are too eager just feed the kids, something cheap and convenient and if they act up, just give them pills. It' sad really :(

[WaltM]

It's not as much the vaccine as it is government telling me I have no choice. Let me decide which if any I want for me or my children.

do you believe people infected with AIDS have the same rights as other people to "choose" what to do with their children?

[WaltM]

The Information Page is also well worth the viewing. It's time we dealt with facts, as opposed to giving mindless support to a very dangerous program.


I consider NaturalNews.com a propaganda site, with mindless supporters, rather than facts.

[WaltM]

Walt this is what the vaccination is all about.

It is the mercury in the vaccines as a preservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(element)

"The element mercury is an ingredient in dental amalgams. Thiomersal (called Thimerosal in the United States) is an organic compound used as a preservative in vaccines, though this use is in decline.[46]"

Mercury if you didn't know is an EXTREMELY toxic metal!

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/effects.htm


Zippyjuan explained this quite well to you.

this is what happens when you only take part of the information and believe what you want. (it's called cherry picking, and essential method of formulating conspiracy theories).

[WaltM]

I agree with this. I think MMR is a fine vaccine, but people deserve to decide whether they get injected with it.

are people who have a fatal disease free to choose whether they want to be guarantined?

Are people who are criminals free to choose whether they want to live at home and travel at their leisure?

[paulpwns]

I consider NaturalNews.com a propaganda site, with mindless supporters, rather than facts.

And you yet believe big pharma and you believe they are safe.....

[WaltM]

And you yet believe big pharma and you believe they are safe.....

not quite

[Jandrsn21]

Zippyjuan explained this quite well to you.

this is what happens when you only take part of the information and believe what you want. (it's called cherry picking, and essential method of formulating conspiracy theories).

No cherry picking, I never said they used the element mercury in the vaccines, it is an organic compound, I am well aware of that. The only comparison we have to any other mercury compound is methyl mercury and mercury itself. I wasn't trying nor did I say that these compounds are in the vaccines. I was simply saying we don't know what the effects of the compound is on the human body yet we pump ourselves full of it. Pretty fn retarded if you ask me. We inject pregnant women and newborns with this substance and we don't know it's full side effects, that isn't a conspiracy theory, that's a fact.

I didn't draw a conspiracy theory either way, I only mentioned what others believe. I was just warning about the dangers of pumping the population full of synthetic compounds that we have no idea what they do to us.

If I were to draw a theory, I wouldn't go with the genocide model. People and even myself have a hard timing drawing that conclusion. My idea is that the substance may be unsafe and since it has been used for so long and may have caused so much trouble. The companies and the regulators can't admit anything is wrong, otherwise these pharma corps would be sued into bankruptcy. ( and we wouldn't want that now, think of how many people would lose their jobs :( .....usa, usa, usa, usa, usa!!! )

You also have to look at the history of what our government does. The air is safe to breath at the WTC!!! Yeah that worked out. The levies will hold, well not quite. No need for respirators, oil is safe to inhale all day! The seafood is safe to eat, even though they dumped millions of gallons of corexit and the oil is still in the gulf. Lead is safe in gas, just add a teaspoon! Flouride is safe for water, take your pills. We need to shutoff energy consumption, or global warming will kill us all!!....... starting to see a pattern here.

It is safe to say, the government doesn't give a d**n. Also, unless you are a chemist, doctor, biologist. How are you going to know about all these things. You have to do the research yourself. There are so many conflicting views, so many stories, and so many spins. After looking at global warming and the propaganda they threw at us. It is safe to say we may actually know very little about things. That to me is a good place to be, I would rather not know, then know a bunch of bs.

Then again this is coming from a person who doesn't even take aspirin. Call me paranoid, but I don't think it is right to treat our bodies like toxic waste bins. Our food, water, air, medication, and information all toxic and unfit for our needs.

Also I didn't cherry pick anything. Should of said a mercury compound is in the vaccine. I clarified what I meant right after his statement. I am aware of the differences between, methyl, ethyl, and elemental. I was saying the mercury is toxic and methyl is as well. ( only thing I had to compare it with, didn't mean to mix the two up. ) My concern is we have been using this since the 30's I believe and we don't know what it does to our bodies. That to me is very alarming and needs to be stopped until we do find out fully. Especially when children and fetus' are involved.

[NiceGoing]

Great post!

[lucius]

It's not as much the vaccine as it is government telling me I have no choice. Let me decide which if any I want for me or my children.

I agree...nothing more to be said.

[ScoutsHonor]

I consider NaturalNews.com a propaganda site, with mindless supporters, rather than facts.

And your "opinion" is based on........?

[BlackSand]

An interesting poll would be to ask...

Do you think that if the government had knowledge that 1 in 10000 shots caused autism, but guaranteed against a break out of a deadly disease, would the government...
a. Hide the statistics, and continue giving shots
b. Give parents the choice of whether or not theyre kids get the shot
c. take the drug off the market

[WaltM]

And your "opinion" is based on........?

peer reviewed science.

I don't follow drug companies, just as I don't follow oil companies.

I don't follow research done by funds coming from industry.

I try to follow research done by wasted taxpayer money from the government.
(because even if it's immoral to steal from the taxpayers, at least you can't accuse them of being biased for profit).

[WaltM]

An interesting poll would be to ask...

Do you think that if the government had knowledge that 1 in 10000 shots caused autism, but guaranteed against a break out of a deadly disease, would the government...
a. Hide the statistics, and continue giving shots
b. Give parents the choice of whether or not theyre kids get the shot
c. take the drug off the market

most likely A, it's what a responsible government does.

That also depends on how deadly and popular the disease is.

[BlackSand]

Thats why I think it would be an interesting poll question. I think most people would pick A and that would waken up a lot of people to these type of issues regarding trust of government.

[WaltM]

Thats why I think it would be an interesting poll question. I think most people would pick A and that would waken up a lot of people to these type of issues regarding trust of government.

I'm not sure that's a good thing to be woken up about.

Given how the average person reacts to statistics they don't and can't understand.

That's exactly what's already happened, that people who have no frame of reference or perspective, overreacting to autism scares.

Essentially, what you're asking for is, that people do what they choose, if they believe one person in 10,000 can't hurt.

[ScoutsHonor]

peer reviewed science.

I don't follow drug companies, just as I don't follow oil companies.

I don't follow research done by funds coming from industry.

I try to follow research done by wasted taxpayer money from the government.
(because even if it's immoral to steal from the taxpayers, at least you can't accuse them of being biased for profit).

"Peer-reviewed science"? OK - it's obvious you have no legitimate basis for your comment. That being the case, you'd best stop libelling an innocent, ethical health organization.

End of discussion.

[WaltM]

"Peer-reviewed science"? OK - it's obvious you have no legitimate basis for your comment.


Do you? What would be one?



That being the case, you'd best stop libelling an innocent, ethical health organization.

End of discussion.

are you talking about NaturalNews.com ?

What's ethical about them?

What would make them non-innocent?