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BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:07 PM
Im not exactly a supporter of Beck. I do think hes done some good things. Hes the one that introduced me to the idea of libertarianism. And by default, Ron Paul. I dont like many things about him. But I dont understand why everyone focuses on him so intensely. Hes wrong half the time, and right half the time. Hes just another pundit. So why is there so much hate focused in his direction, and not Rush or O reily? What makes Beck the center of all hate?

AGRP
08-28-2010, 12:12 PM
People can say all they want.

But, whats funny is the very same people who preach capitalism and the free market are overly obsessed with tearing him down. The free market will guide people, in the end, to support groups like C4L.

Look at what C4L has done. We have essesntally taken over the grassroots of the republican party. All of becks followers who wants to become active will fall into the hands of people like us and they will be converted.


People sometimes get too negative and dont realize the power WE have.

Aratus
08-28-2010, 12:16 PM
sarah palin has praised our beloved scott brown in the past.
sarah palin has jist hit our senator with GOP party discipline!
sarah palin just spoke in d.c 'round about 11:30 a.m today?!!

AuH20
08-28-2010, 12:16 PM
People can say all they want.

But, whats funny is the very same people who preach capitalism and the free market are overly obsessed with tearing him down. The free market will guide people, in the end, to support groups like C4L.

Look at what C4L has done. We have essesntally taken over the grassroots of the republican party. All of becks followers who wants to become active will fall into the hands of people like us and they will be converted.


People sometimes get too negative and dont realize the power WE have.

Beck is a gateway drug. Too many people are oblivious to this fact.

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:16 PM
lol, don't start another thread about the guy if you think it's negative for us to focus on him...

it's a good point, we should not focus on the guy... we don't focus on the guy 24/7, but we enjoy sharing our opinions on the guys at time...

Aratus
08-28-2010, 12:18 PM
he's actually more of a PR person than he is a politician, even so... we have to take him seriously!

Deborah K
08-28-2010, 12:18 PM
I think members here hate him for the things he said about us and Ron Paul during the campaign. He tried to make up for it by having him on for a full hour but very few forgave him. Since the time he had RP on for an hour, his opinions on many things have changed although not enough for most on this forum.

He is also very suspicious of 9/11 truth and he jumped the gun when he interviewed Medina after he heard she was a truther (which she isn't). He was very, very unfair toward her. He got a ration for it and feebly tried to backpeddle but to no avail.

These things bother most on this forum to the degree that they work each other up into a lather over it when he comes up. It seems that those here who come from the left hate him more than those here who come from the right. So ideology is probably at the root of some of the hate.

I have mixed feelings about Beck. I watch his show and listen to him on a fairly regular basis. I've read his books. Like it or not, he is having an impact on Americans. The best we can do is use that to our advantage to fully wake people up. I consider Glenn Beck to be a gateway drug.

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:20 PM
I dont care whether we focus on him. I think he makes a lot of good points. I just dont understand the hate directed at him as a person. Im just trying to understand. The libertarians that are anti Glenn Beck sound like Maddow.

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:21 PM
I dont care whether we focus on him. I think he makes a lot of good points. I just dont understand the hate directed at him as a person. Im just trying to understand. The libertarians that are anti Glenn Beck sound like Maddow.


I've watched Maddow, she's capable of making good points as well and has made a handful before...

let's all go to her self-absorbant rally...

TheDriver
08-28-2010, 12:22 PM
Im not exactly a supporter of Beck. I do think hes done some good things. Hes the one that introduced me to the idea of libertarianism. And by default, Ron Paul. I dont like many things about him. But I dont understand why everyone focuses on him so intensely. Hes wrong half the time, and right half the time. Hes just another pundit. So why is there so much hate focused in his direction, and not Rush or O reily? What makes Beck the center of all hate?

Jealousy ....

No, really it's our secret weapon we use to build coalitions with conservative voters. :rolleyes:


Also, some dislike him because he has changed some of his positions and came "our way."

And some just hate him because he's an asshole sometimes.

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Deborah. Well put. Thats probably the most unbiased explanation ive heard yet. But it also makes me fear for the movement. Were so focused on what was that we cant focus on whats happening now. If we always focus on what people once were, then no wonder libertarianism isnt as popular as it should be. We reject every philosophy that even slightly varies. And we reject people because of their past.

And did Medina ever come out and say "I am not a truther"? Can someone link me to that?

Matt Collins
08-28-2010, 12:24 PM
He colluded with Rick Perry's campaign to torpedo Debra Medina. He is a snake and is not to be trusted.

Aratus
08-28-2010, 12:25 PM
alex jones is more blunt and more honest.
howard stern is an entertainer and showman.
don imus has an almost mark twain reserve + wit.
jack hunter should run for public office a.s.a.p ...i feel...
by comparison, glenn beck is "limbaugh~lite" + sophmoric.

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:27 PM
yah, not jealous of beck here...

I will point out that I don't talk of beck to neocon beck fans as I talk of him here... I point out where he may be wrong, but you gotta lead these neocon beck fans, not run 'em off... but chances are if you're posting on here you don't need to be led too much further, so open game on his ass here...

Deborah K
08-28-2010, 12:33 PM
Deborah. Well put. Thats probably the most unbiased explanation ive heard yet. But it also makes me fear for the movement. Were so focused on what was that we cant focus on whats happening now. If we always focus on what people once were, then no wonder libertarianism isnt as popular as it should be. We reject every philosophy that even slightly varies. And we reject people because of their past.

And did Medina ever come out and say "I am not a truther"? Can someone link me to that?

I don't consider myself a libertarian. Not by party affiliation nor platform. I'm a registered non-partisan and have been for over 15 years. I don't trust the party system. The only litmus test I have is whether a candidate is willing to adhere to the Constitution or not. If they don't, they should be booted out at the first vote against it. Platforms mean nothing to me.

erowe1
08-28-2010, 12:33 PM
Today is the day of his big 8/28 rally. Are we not supposed to talk about it? Or are we supposed to talk about it without talking about Beck?

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:35 PM
I think we need to hijack Glenn Beck. Can you imagine if he went anti neo con? Or if Palin really did reveal herself as the idiotic progressive neo con that she is, and he supported Paul in 2012? He did say he was more Paul than Palin, but disagreed with how Paul spread hte message, or something along those lines. I think he wants to slowly move to Paul instead of rushing towards him.

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:36 PM
Today is the day of his big 8/28 rally. Are we not supposed to talk about it? Or are we supposed to talk about it without talking about Beck?

You're not supposed to talk about it on a thread talking about it in the sense we shouldn't talk about it when there was another thread already talking about it...

can these threads be merged to make one more spot for something non-GB? one thread on the first page is enough...

which thread should I continue posting on? same argument on both!

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:39 PM
I think we need to hijack Glenn Beck. Can you imagine if he went anti neo con? Or if Palin really did reveal herself as the idiotic progressive neo con that she is, and he supported Paul in 2012? He did say he was more Paul than Palin, but disagreed with how Paul spread hte message, or something along those lines. I think he wants to slowly move to Paul instead of rushing towards him.

Hey if he actually moves over to Paul, and shows up in nut-cutting time and endorses big and serious libertarians GREAT, maybe he HAS changed... but until then the two libertarians I wanted most in office, Paul as Prez and Medina as the governor of my state, have been SHOT DOWN by the man in favor of moderate republicans... until he actually goes balls to the wall with it, he's not trusted by me...

ClayTrainor
08-28-2010, 12:40 PM
:)


When it comes to dealing with media personalities, apathy is the way. If you allow yourself to become emotionally invested in these characters, you lose. It is akin to theatre; the performers seek to evoke a response from the audience. It matters not whether you love or hate any given character, as long as you respond.

A silent audience is failure. A silent audience is death. Please remember this ;)

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:42 PM
Im not even talking about 8/28. Im talking about in general. Before Beck even mentioned this rally, there was more focus on him than anyone else. I just want to understand why libertarians focus on him more than any other pundit.

payme_rick
08-28-2010, 12:44 PM
Im not even talking about 8/28. Im talking about in general. Before Beck even mentioned this rally, there was more focus on him than anyone else. I just want to understand why libertarians focus on him more than any other pundit.


we don't really FOCUS on him as much as some of us at times enjoy talking about him...


why are you so focused on defending him all day?

rprprs
08-28-2010, 12:46 PM
He colluded with Rick Perry's campaign to torpedo Debra Medina. He is a snake and is not to be trusted.

Yes.
I can't believe we're still rehashing the whole Beck/Medina thing, but as long as we do, you'll find me coming down on the right side of the argument. ;)
Beck is to be judged on HIS actions alone, and not on the words of Medina. Her words are completely immaterial to the argument. Beck's intent and motive are not.

someperson
08-28-2010, 12:46 PM
Have you ever found yourself writing diatribe after diatribe, post after post, as part of an impassioned attack on some character in the media? Have you ever found yourself irrationally defending or promoting one of these individuals as if they had no access to a global communications medium? These are both symptoms of the turquoise plague... better known elsewhere as "ill-considered emotional investment in media personalities" (or maybe it was just a bad day lol).

The remedy to this malady is apathy. If you still have that apathy you tossed out in 2008, please go find it again. Yes... it has a purpose, after all :)

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 12:50 PM
Id say im pretty apathetic about him. I see the idiot things he does, and the good things he does. I recognize both. I just want logical arguments for the passionate hate that most libertarians have. Ive always thought of libertarians as logical. But when it comes to GB...they lose their heads. I see lots of ad hominems and name calling, and the same 3 events that can be perceived from 6 different angles.

Deborah K
08-28-2010, 12:52 PM
Have you ever found yourself writing diatribe after diatribe, post after post, as part of an impassioned attack on some character in the media? Have you ever found yourself irrationally defending or promoting one of these individuals as if they had no access to a global communications medium? These are both symptoms of the turquoise plague... better known elsewhere as "ill-considered emotional investment in media personalities" (or maybe it was just a bad day lol).

The remedy to this malady is apathy. If you still have that apathy you tossed out in 2008, please go find it again. Yes... it has a purpose, after all :)

While it is true that becoming emotionally invested in a TV personality is nutballish, the fact is, people do it all the time. They do it to musicians, politicians, actors. Cult of personality.

Observing it with a critical eye and using their influence to our advantage seems like the only purposeful route to take.

LibertyMage
08-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I dont care whether we focus on him. I think he makes a lot of good points. I just dont understand the hate directed at him as a person. Im just trying to understand. The libertarians that are anti Glenn Beck sound like Maddow.

During the 2008 presidential primaries, our main enemies were the neocons and Beck was one of them. Because of this, the liberty movement is ultra suspicious of those we see as wolves in sheep's clothing and we are quick to go for the throats of those who stray.

TNforPaul45
08-28-2010, 12:58 PM
Im not exactly a supporter of Beck. I do think hes done some good things. Hes the one that introduced me to the idea of libertarianism. And by default, Ron Paul. I dont like many things about him. But I dont understand why everyone focuses on him so intensely. Hes wrong half the time, and right half the time. Hes just another pundit. So why is there so much hate focused in his direction, and not Rush or O reily? What makes Beck the center of all hate?

I am glad that Beck introduced you to Libertarianism. Now quickly flee away from Glenn Beck's version of it and go get some Rothbard/Mises/DiLorenzo books and keep waking up.

[Corrected for Inaccuracy]


People can say all they want.

But, whats funny is the very same people who preach capitalism and the free market are overly obsessed with tearing him down. The free market will guide people, in the end, to support groups like C4L.

Look at what C4L has done. We have essesntally taken over the grassroots of the republican party. All of becks followers who wants to become active will fall into the hands of people like us and they will be converted.


People sometimes get too negative and dont realize the power WE have.

I personally do not have a problem with Glenn Beck's freedom to say whatever the heck he wants. I do not want to "tear" him down. But I will not cease in pointing out that he is the: 1. Most Vocal member of this new "Tea Party" movement, and that 2. He and his ilk have done, and are doing, and will do, everything they can to co-opt the real Liberty message started by Ron Paul and present the GOP as the solution to our country's ills. He is a vociferous liar and is wearing a mask, and he is helping to keep the people asleep to ideals of True Liberty, and simultaneously presenting "liberals" with someone who they can point and laugh at, and keep THEIR people asleep as well. In this, Beck is a Trifecta of Wrong.


He colluded with Rick Perry's campaign to torpedo Debra Medina. He is a snake and is not to be trusted.

Listen to The Collins. Us Tennessee Boys know what we are talking about :)


Im not even talking about 8/28. Im talking about in general. Before Beck even mentioned this rally, there was more focus on him than anyone else. I just want to understand why libertarians focus on him more than any other pundit.

Libertarians focus on him because he is as far opposed to true liberty as anyone. Listen to his words, but also focus on his actions. Look at who he stands with and for. Listen to his positions on foreign policy. He says "all religions must stand together" and at the same time says "we must support Israel in it's right to bomb another country."

Voluminous Falsity is abhorrent to a free thinking Libertarian.

heavenlyboy34
08-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Im not exactly a supporter of Beck. I do think hes done some good things. Hes the one that introduced me to the idea of libertarianism. And by default, Ron Paul. I dont like many things about him. But I dont understand why everyone focuses on him so intensely. Hes wrong half the time, and right half the time. Hes just another pundit. So why is there so much hate focused in his direction, and not Rush or O reily? What makes Beck the center of all hate?

Because Rush and O'Reily are known neocons, and don't try to influence the liberty movement. Beck poses as a libertarian, and misleads people who are new to libertarianism. :p

AuH20
08-28-2010, 01:03 PM
Id say im pretty apathetic about him. I see the idiot things he does, and the good things he does. I recognize both. I just want logical arguments for the passionate hate that most libertarians have. Ive always thought of libertarians as logical. But when it comes to GB...they lose their heads. I see lots of ad hominems and name calling, and the same 3 events that can be perceived from 6 different angles.

They've completely lost their minds. They really think Beck is Jim Jones and he can magically wave his fingers and command millions against their will. It's hilarious to ponder. All I know is that Beck pushes his enormous audience to read Hayek, Clousen, Woods, Griffin and other non-mainstream authors. So I 100% applaud him in his education efforts, despite disagreeing with him on a few issues.

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Woah, woah, woah. GB is a pundit that is wrong half the time. NOT Ron Paul. You misread what I wrote. Most likely my fault. I am sorry.

So the key to the hate is "He's a typical wolf, but disguised in sheeps clothing. And that makes him more dangerous."

TNforPaul45
08-28-2010, 01:09 PM
Woah, woah, woah. GB is a pundit that is wrong half the time. NOT Ron Paul. You misread what I wrote. Most likely my fault. I am sorry.

So the key to the hate is "He's a typical wolf, but disguised in sheeps clothing. And that makes him more dangerous."

Acknowledged. And it's not hate. I don't generally "hate" anyone. Severe Dislike would be more like it. My comment signature explains my position, in the words of Jefferson: "I swear on the alter of God eternal hostility against every form of Tyranny over the mind of Man."

Anyone who lies, misleads, misdirects, omits, falsely reshapes or reframes truth and wisdom is a Tyrant over the mind of man, because they only strengthen the shackles of ignorance that hold the mind down.

BlackSand
08-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Everyone shapes truth. Even libertarians. We consistently ignore Australia and their low gun crime late because they dont have a right to guns. And instead we focus on Switzerland, because they all have guns and a low gun crime rate. And then even as I say this, youre reasoning in your head about why that is to fit your own opinion.

All truth is relative...so to speak.

Aratus
08-28-2010, 01:16 PM
when Glenn Beck has people exposed to books other than mayhap Oprah's reading club,
folks sometimes humour non-mainstream ideas, admittedly! ---IMOHO--- AuH20 is correct!!
often we see true believers + mass media people desiring to have a cult form around them!!!
if half the crowd is there in d.c becuz they all are tea party express and they want the GOP to take
them seriously, and this rally is an intro into the super~tuesday sweepstakes proper... oh! my!my!my!

AuH20
08-28-2010, 01:19 PM
when Glenn Beck has people exposed to books other than mayhapOprah's reading club,
folks sometimes humour non-mainstream ideas, admittedly! ---IMOHO--- AuH20 is correct!
often we see true believers + mass media people desiring to have a cult form around them!!!

You nailed it. If you carefully read Hayek, Skousen, Quigley or Woods and then closely examine Palin's platform, let's just say you're not going to be enamored with her. The cat is already out of the bag with the literature he pushes. From a statist MSM perspective, it's very radical subject matter. I want Glenn Beck to continue push controversial information into the public arena, regardless if he says something stupid on occasion.

erowe1
08-28-2010, 01:37 PM
If you carefully read Hayek, Skousen, Quigley or Woods and then closely examine Palin's platform, let's just say you're not going to be enamored with her.

I think the only one of those Beck has actually carefully read is Skousen. But whatever he's read, it hasn't stopped him from being enamoured with her and others as bad as her.

And actually, I think a lot of the establishment Republicans who are the most dangerous are very well read, and understand exactly where we're coming from. Take a look at this article by Mitch Daniels, for example:
http://fivebooks.com/interviews/mitch-daniels-on-american-conservatism

Matt Collins
08-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Yes.
I can't believe we're still rehashing the whole Beck/Medina thing, but as long as we do, you'll find me coming down on the right side of the argument. ;)
Beck is to be judged on HIS actions alone, and not on the words of Medina. Her words are completely immaterial to the argument. Beck's intent and motive are not.
I never said anything about her words. I simply said that Beck colluded and coordinated with Rick Perry to bring down Medina.

AuH20
08-28-2010, 02:02 PM
I think the only one of those Beck has actually carefully read is Skousen. But whatever he's read, it hasn't stopped him from being enamoured with her and others as bad as her.

And actually, I think a lot of the establishment Republicans who are the most dangerous are very well read, and understand exactly where we're coming from. Take a look at this article by Mitch Daniels, for example:
http://fivebooks.com/interviews/mitch-daniels-on-american-conservatism

Beck isn't enamored with Palin, due to her widely publicized moderate stances and general lack of knowledge. ATM I think he tepidly supports her as purely an alternative to Obama. If Rand Paul was on the national stage, he'd easily support him over her, since their views are much more in lockstep.

BTW I'm not concerned with current crop of politicians. It's the masses. The masses will create their own representatives in time. I view this entire political struggle as a battle of ideas. Politicians are the vessels and we must imbue them with the truth. It's not going to happen spontaneously.

Pericles
08-28-2010, 02:19 PM
They've completely lost their minds. They really think Beck is Jim Jones and he can magically wave his fingers and command millions against their will. It's hilarious to ponder. All I know is that Beck pushes his enormous audience to read Hayek, Clousen, Woods, Griffin and other non-mainstream authors. So I 100% applaud him in his education efforts, despite disagreeing with him on a few issues.
Yeah, its like why communists hate socialists - insufficient ideology of a pure nature. Ironic for people who believe in freedom. They can't disagree without being disagreeable.

rprprs
08-29-2010, 12:40 PM
I never said anything about her words. I simply said that Beck colluded and coordinated with Rick Perry to bring down Medina.

I know you didn't, Matt. I was agreeing with your post and then elaborating with thoughts of my own in relation to some of the earlier post in the thread. Sorry if that wasn't clear. :)

RM918
08-29-2010, 12:53 PM
We'll see in 2011-2012 whether the fears about him are well-founded.

Fredom101
08-29-2010, 01:18 PM
He's completely unprincipled. He's pro-WAR for crying out loud. He's not a thinker. He's a TV propagandist. He's a wolf in sheeps clothing for those that cannot see.

YumYum
08-29-2010, 01:18 PM
All his sham emotions and rhetoric is a smokescreen to the "real" Glenn Beck. His agenda is first and foremost unconditional 100% support for the Israeli government. How can he attack our own government and yet he never, ever finds fault with the Israeli government?

Do you have a puke bag nearby?

YouTube - Glenn Beck and John Bolton discuss Obamas UN speech and Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuw2bZW_BnY)

Aratus
08-29-2010, 01:22 PM
glenn beck is a hawk...

Imaginos
08-29-2010, 01:35 PM
Glenn Beck is a neocon infiltrator.
There's nothing libertarian about his position on American foreign policy and especially the Middle East issue.
And he insists America should support and fight for Israel to the end.
For me, Beck is nothing but a neocon infiltrator/ traitorous snake.

Imaginos
08-29-2010, 01:38 PM
All his sham emotions and rhetoric is a smokescreen to the "real" Glenn Beck. His agenda is first and foremost unconditional 100% support for the Israeli government. How can he attack our own government and yet he never, ever finds fault with the Israeli government?

Do you have a puke bag nearby?

YouTube - Glenn Beck and John Bolton discuss Obamas UN speech and Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuw2bZW_BnY)
Bingo!
And I always have a puke bag ready when I talk about Glenn Beck.
:D

axiomata
08-29-2010, 01:45 PM
I never said anything about her words. I simply said that Beck colluded and coordinated with Rick Perry to bring down Medina.
Do you have proof of collusion?

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 03:20 PM
Neocon isnt a good argument. Hes just as neocon as every other commentator. What Im asking is what makes him the center of the hate. Oreily gets better ratings. Rush is more idiotic. Theres so many neocons to choose from...and we chose this guy to focus on.

AuH20
08-29-2010, 03:26 PM
Neocon isnt a good argument. Hes just as neocon as every other commentator. What Im asking is what makes him the center of the hate. Oreily gets better ratings. Rush is more idiotic. Theres so many neocons to choose from...and we chose this guy to focus on.

The problem is that he isn't a neocon. Neocons are Krauthammer, Kristol and Medved. This chronic mislabeling is almost as frustrating as mainstream GOPers who erroneously label every Ron Paul supporter as a drug-addled libertarian. Our side screams Neocon without any thought and they scream Paultard leftist. I hate it.

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 03:42 PM
AuH20, youre already on my good list for that comment. Attack the issues, not the people. Youre part of the solution.

But how ISNT he a a neocon?

AuH20
08-29-2010, 03:48 PM
AuH20, youre already on my good list for that comment. Attack the issues, not the people. Youre part of the solution.

But how ISNT he a a neocon?

Neocon status goes beyond one or two foreign policy issues. Neoconservatism is a diluted version of progressivism, in that they strongly believe in centralized planning and control. Neocons are opposed to bringing the country back to it's constitutional underpinnings. You won't see many Neocons attacking the validity of the New Deal legislation or clamoring for an end to the Federal Reserve. Yes, Beck has an obvious affinity for Israel. With that said, he has declared that he'd like to see our global influence shrink, by closing bases abroad and shuffling the troops home.

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 03:53 PM
he has declared that he'd like to see our global influence shrink, by closing bases abroad and shuffling the troops home.

Thats (good) news to me.

And I guess everyone has a different definition of neocon. Politics always gets more confusing when terms are given new definitions by the masses.

YumYum
08-29-2010, 03:56 PM
Neocon isnt a good argument. Hes just as neocon as every other commentator. What Im asking is what makes him the center of the hate. Oreily gets better ratings. Rush is more idiotic. Theres so many neocons to choose from...and we chose this guy to focus on.

Because he pretends to be one of us. O'Reilly told John Stossel that Libertarians are lunatics, and Rush can't stand Ron Paul. But Beck, probably better than any other neocon, sounds like a Taft/Goldwater/Paul/Libertarian/Conservative/Republican until foreign policy regarding the issue of protecting Israel and fighting Israel's wars comes up. He puts Israel's interest ahead of our own country's interest and would send me and my generation to our deaths in a heartbeat to fight for the Israeli government.

By his own admission, he supports Israel 100% unconditionally because of his own religious beliefs. I don't know what Mormons believe regarding Israel, but Beck thinks that G-d is behind Israel and we must do whatever it takes to protect it.

Ron Paul's position on foreign policy is the number one issue with Ron Paul and Ron Paul supporters. Why? Because when Ron Paul ran for president, the first thing he said he would do is bring home all the troops, shut down all the bases, and cut off all foreign aid. After that, he would tackle the problem with domestic entitlements and waste.

If Beck would change his tune regarding foreign policy, which includes shedding American blood for Israel, I wouldn't be so critical of him.

As far as all the different flavors of neocons go, if a so called conservative believes everything that Ron Paul stands for and is in agreement with him except where foreign policy is concerned, then they are a neocon. The neocons are a tool of the Zionist to keep America actively fighting wars, especially in the Mideast. By keeping America as a warmongering nation and policing the world, we can, and will, fight Israel's wars.

ronpaulhawaii
08-29-2010, 04:48 PM
... Our side screams Neocon without any thought and they scream Paultard leftist. I hate it.

I hear you here. It's kinda like at the early second wave tea parties, after Fox and the establishment (including Beck) turned the outrage away from the bailouts (which was uniting left and right) towards the Health Care debate, suddenly the growing crowd was splintered with partisans going right and yelling, "Socialist!", partisans running to the left yelling, "racist!" and us r3VOLutionaries standing in the same place saying, "Damn!"


Neocon isnt a good argument. Hes just as neocon as every other commentator. What Im asking is what makes him the center of the hate. Oreily gets better ratings. Rush is more idiotic. Theres so many neocons to choose from...and we chose this guy to focus on.

He is not the center of anything but his own universe. Methinks you are making a bit of a mountain out of a hill here.

There are some valid reasons that Beck gets skewered here. He really pulled some underhanded stunts against us and has never acknowledged them in any meaningful way.

One thing I see is that we have been working our ass of waking people up, and when they first start to look critically they find Beck, with his honey honey poison, who diverts them from swallowing the whole pill. We cannot address fiscal issues without addressing foreign policy and anyone who ignores that is suspect.

Yes, it is great that Beck has people reading decent authors, but perhaps his bosses know the actual amount of people who will read those books is insignificant for their purposes. Yes, his show does shake people enough that we grow, but if the tea-o-cons grow faster we lose...

The Rush/Hannity/Bill crowd is not low-hanging fruit. The Beck crowd is...

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 04:58 PM
So Beck is worse because hes not a clear cut enemy. Hes 80% libertarian and 20% neocon republican.

I still dont understand. Id rather people listen to Beck than to Hannity. Like I said earlier, Beck introduced me to Libertarianism. Hes doing a lot for the movement as a whole. He is not nearly as neocon as most other pundits. And definitely more libertarian. He associates with the Judge and Stossel. He didnt originally help Ron Paul, but hes moving in the right direction. What I think we should be doing is stop outright criticizing him and assassinating his character, and instead try to push him towards out side. Can you imagine if he endorsed Ron Paul? Even if Beck doesnt agree with 100% of everything he says, he has said "Im more Ron Paul than I am Sarah Palin." and he constantly (or at least used to, back when I actually watched his show) talked about politicians that actually have integrity.

Instead of criticizing him, we should try to convince him that Palin is just McCain with boobs. And that Ron Paul is the only honest politician that has even the slightest chance of winning the presidency.

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 05:03 PM
And you posted while I was in the middle of writing. Hate that. haha

ronpaulhawaii. Good argument. I can see that. He has changed the focus of the Tea Party a bit. Be hes also the one that made it popular in the first place. Do you really think it would be as big if it werent for Faux news?

AuH20
08-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Instead of criticizing him, we should try to convince him that Palin is just McCain with boobs. And that Ron Paul is the only honest politician that has even the slightest chance of winning the presidency.

But at the same time, Beck isn't going to back a horse that can't win. Ron's biggest problem is his sloppy communication with primary voters. If Ron could just learn how to communicate better without pissing off three-quarters of likely republican voters, he could win the nomination. I don't mean abandoning principles, but do a better job of communicating the ills of a reckless foreign policy. And as the polls indicate, Ron performs much better in a general election scenario against a democratic opponent. I think Beck backs Palin simply because the electoral landscape is so barren. If Ron could somehow break past the fringe status, I have no doubt in my mind, that Beck would endorse him.

BlackSand
08-29-2010, 05:21 PM
I agree with the last part of what you said. But half the reason Paul is out there is to spread the message. To him thats just as important as actually winning. And part of the reason I like Paul is how he handled the election. He explained his principles. Didnt beat around the bush. Said it like it is. And makes everything he says reasonable. I would hate for him to become another politician afraid to talk about a principle because its unpopular.

*In the voice of Gary Oldman*
Ron Paul is the politician we need. But not the politician we want.

YumYum
08-29-2010, 05:48 PM
But at the same time, Beck isn't going to back a horse that can't win. Ron's biggest problem is his sloppy communication with primary voters. If Ron could just learn how to communicate better without pissing off three-quarters of likely republican voters, he could win the nomination. I don't mean abandoning principles, but do a better job of communicating the ills of a reckless foreign policy. And as the polls indicate, Ron performs much better in a general election scenario against a democratic opponent. I think Beck backs Palin simply because the electoral landscape is so barren. If Ron could somehow break past the fringe status, I have no doubt in my mind, that Beck would endorse him.

You've lost me here. What exactly would you have Ron Paul say differently from what he has said in the past?

AuH20
08-29-2010, 05:54 PM
You've lost me here. What exactly would you have Ron Paul say differently from what he has said in the past?

I'm thinking more of "know your audience", especially during the infamous 2008 primary debate. He could have made those points without giving the Neos ammunition to mislabel him as a leftist. He should have never taken the bait with the 9/11 question in the SC primary debate. That's all people remember from an otherwise solid debate on his part. He let his enemies define him. If he was a little defter, he could have avoided that entire imbroglio. Some folks left that debate thinking Paul was more Noam Chomsky than Robert Taft.