Beck's rally broadcast live on C-SPAN

[tangent4ronpaul]

It just started.

-t

[Baptist]

glad I don't own a TV.

[pacelli]

Oh my god. This is such a fucking joke. This is worse than televangelism.

[ronpaulhawaii]

Is Beck going to play the religion card to maintain divisions?

[pacelli]

At the moment he is playing the "worship the military" card, and first off was a plug to donate money to a military front group. I really don't think I can afford to lose brain cells watching this all day.

[Bruno]

Wow, that "prayer" was something else. I noticed the native american behind him was mouthing his own prayer. Probably something like, "wish they had never landed".

First thing he rolls out after the prayer - Defend our Military! Patriotism rules! American Exceptionallism!

[pacelli]

Oh here we go. "This is a wonderful miracle. Text sowf to xxxx on your cell phone, this may be the largest single crowd ever to be able to do this, it will make a donation of $10. Lets take care of our children, and lets do it right now!"

Congratulations CIA, you did an AWESOME job co-opting the tea party movement.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I have been watching for 20 minutes now and I think I am going to be sick. So far the idea that secession and states rights is wrong has been reinforced. The idea that Lincoln was a saint has been reinforced. The myth that Mary and Abe got along at all has been thrust upon an idiotic crowd and Beck decided that we needed to hear from a mom and not a politician and brought out Palin.... what a f'n joke.

[NiceGoing]

This is quite a satire!!! Somewhere the PTB are gathered laughing their heads off I bet. Ugh!

[Sentient Void]

Wow.

Just. Wow. Tea-Party has absolutely been co-opted by neocon scumbags. Although he had brought some interesting topics we like to be seen/talked about into the MSM... ultimately - Beck is no friend, ultimately, to us.

Sarah Palin makes me *want* to puke a little in my mouth, swallow it, puke, swallow it again - ad infinitum - just for watching this trash rally. As a form of self-punishment. What a bunch of Orwellian doublethink bullshit.

These people are falling for the Hegelian Dialectic hook, line and sinker. Sad.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Someone please shut this woman up..... I cannot stand to hear one more stupid thing come from her mouth and why anyone there even applauded when she said "John McCain" is beyond me..... oh and here we go with the USA, USA, USA chants.....

[Son of Detroit]

I got up early to watch Freedom Watch, but the only TV that gets the channel was put on C-SPAN by my dad and I cannot convince him to change it.

:mad:

[tangent4ronpaul]

It has been pretty bad - a neocon love fest.

I switched over to Freedom Watch and have just been peaking in on the commercials. Judge pissed me off today - some dits U Cal prof saying that the gvmt can do anything they want because of the general welfare clause and the commerce clause and he didn't call her on it. Did use some old arguments about the latter - but ignored that the gen welfare clause is not a enumerated power, but simply pre-amble.

-t

[HOLLYWOOD]

Reminds me of the unconditional love the German people gave to Hitler.

A nation of Zombies... doesn't matter if they are Left or Right handed.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

wow.... some idiot up here saying without America we could not exist....

[tangent4ronpaul]

yeah - this is really, really awful.

Rev Jackson is having a rally later this afternoon. Wonder which will be worse by comparison. Think I'll skip on finding out - but I'm a bit curious which gets the larger turnout.

C-SPAN is taking comments on the rally on their facebook page...

-t

[zach]

that music is ridiculous. xD

[Son of Detroit]

Albert Pujols is now on stage.

Only good part of the rally.

GO ALBERT!
http://www.sportsbettingchamp.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/albert-pujols.jpg

[YumYum]

I'm surprised that the Palin/Beck fans on this forum haven't come to their defense.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

They are not doing so because the Palin/Beck detractors are being proven correct today.

[LibertarianfromGermany]

wow.... some idiot up here saying without America we could not exist....

You'd probably drown without America.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

You'd probably drown without America.

No because I taught myself how to swim a long,long time ago.

[LibertarianfromGermany]

No because I taught myself how to swim a long,long time ago.

that's a long swim... you might want to get some seasteads to keep you afloat :)

[specsaregood]

So in short: Dr. Paul saw this coming and preemptively countered it with his : Tea Party Foreign Policy yesterday?

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

That was perhaps the worst song I have ever heard.

[zach]

what is the point of this rally?? seriously, this is entertainment, yet kind of sad..

[AGRP]

Cliffs so far?

[Son of Detroit]

Cliffs so far?

-God
-Military
-Lots of gospel singing
-Martin Luther King
-Lincoln worship
-Tony La Russa/Albert Pujols

[tangent4ronpaul]

Check out Becks Bus map for this event:

http://www.glennbeck.com/828/828map.html

That's pretty impressive!

-t

[AGRP]

-God
-Military
-Lots of gospel singing
-Martin Luther King
-Lincoln worship
-Tony La Russa/Albert Pujols

I dont know about the military part, but im all for bringing attention to god and uniting races rather than worshiping the state then dividing races.

Then again, i just tunned in.

[erowe1]

I dont know about the military part, but im all for bringing attention to god and uniting races rather than worshiping the state then dividing races.

Then again, i just tunned in.

I'm not going to criticize anyone else's convictions on this. But I'm kind of intrigued and concerned by Beck's religious angle, and by how comfortable so many presumably non-Mormon Christian tea partiers are with it.

If my church made an announcement that they were going to be holding some kind of a joint prayer meeting with a Mormon church, not only would I not attend it, but I'd leave my church over it. My impression of most evangelicals only a decade ago would have been to expect the same. But now I see this new ecumenical movement Beck seems to be leading and I think I might be in a minority on that.

[pacelli]

Now Beck is worshipping the false idol of the washington monument.

This is a masonic wet dream.

[AGRP]

I'm not going to criticize anyone else's convictions on this. But I'm kind of intrigued and concerned by Beck's religious angle, and by how comfortable so many presumably non-Mormon Christian tea partiers are with it.

If my church made an announcement that they were going to be holding some kind of a joint prayer meeting with a Mormon church, not only would I not attend it, but I'd leave my church over it. My impression of most evangelicals only a decade ago would have been to expect the same. But now I see this new ecumenical movement Beck seems to be leading and I think I might be in a minority on that.

I havent heard him mention a particular religion, other than "god."

It would be really cool if he had a muslim and an atheist, but i doubt it will happen.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Gesus... here we go, Glenn Beck Crying again...

Special Ops Charity

http://www.specialops.org/

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Oh Lord... now he is crying talking about the Gettysburg Address.... :mad::mad::mad:

[Son of Detroit]

Bring back Albert Pujols on stage!

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I have had about as much Lincoln worship as I can stand without barfing.. I may have to turn this off for health reasons.

[Paulitical Correctness]

My folks are eating it up.

[sofia]

When an independent or liberal that we might otherwise be able to persuade to our cause....sees this crap on TV ...he/she is bound to have all of their stereotypes about "conservatives" reinforced.

Beck and Palin are total goofballs working for the neo-cons.

[erowe1]

I havent heard him mention a particular religion, other than "god."


Yeah, I wouldn't be comfortable with that. If you want to have a prayer meeting that's for some generic religion that's just about some vague kind of "god" and that includes within it Mormons, Jews, Muslims, evangelicals, deists, Catholics, and anyone else who believes in some god, then I'm not going. Again, I understand if that's not where some others are coming from, but like I said above, a decade ago, I think most evangelicals would have said the same thing.

[ClayTrainor]

heh...

Hope this is getting you warmed up for 2012 guys. The bullshit is only going to get stinkier from this point on. :)

[sofia]

heh...

Hope this is getting you warmed up for 2012 guys. The bullshit is only going to get stinkier from this point on. :)

no. beck emphasized that this rally has nothing to do with politics. It's strictly about "restoring honor"

:rolleyes:

[ClayTrainor]

no. beck emphasized that this rally has nothing to do with politics. It's strictly about "restoring honor"

:rolleyes:

Well, if he said it... it must be true! :p

Just look at how sincere those tears are.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/tv/glenn%20beck%20crying.jpg

[ronpaulhawaii]

ISTM, Beck came out swinging for his God. I tuned out during the first preachers segment... The God I rest my faith on loves when people quietly pray, but this showmanship seems to be using his name in vain...

He doesn't have to come out for any particular theology in order to elevate it as a topic in the general debate. IMO - Anything more than simple acknowledgements to "Divine Providence/etc", at the national level, will undoubtedly cause division among potential allies against true tyranny... Many people lose their ability to think critically in regards to theology and end up mindlessly waving flags for the very things they think they are standing against...

[legion]

I wish Beck would restore America's honor like the feudal japanese used to.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Man, never have I watched a person that loves to hear himself speak. Well, then again... Kieth Olbermann & company share that cake.

Normally I have to go to a BAR to hear such entertainment... give that man a Barstool!

PS: why does C-SPAN show the same Zombies over and over? New Cameraman that can PAN... please.

[ItsTime]

How many people are there?

My guess is big because I can't find it on MSM sites

[CaseyJones]

YouTube - Jethro Tull- Hymn 43 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrId8xH2gh8)

[Deborah K]

I forgot about the rally until I just saw this thread. Now I'm gonna have to go watch it.....on second thought....nah......the local tea party is having a meeting about property rights today. I think I'll stick to my original plans and go to that.

[ItsTime]

I forgot about the rally until I just saw this thread. Now I'm gonna have to go watch it.....on second thought....nah......the local tea party is having a meeting about property rights today. I think I'll stick to my original plans and go to that.

Sounds like a good plan :D

[payme_rick]

will not even drop in for a second on this thing... I drop into his show from time to time and have heard him talk about this thing and it's not for me... it's about attention for himself and basking in his own "glory"... and these people in attendence won't do a damn thing but re-elect the same people they're "supposedly" there complaining about... just a buncha sheep out there...

[HOLLYWOOD]

How many people are there?

My guess is big because I can't find it on MSM sites

ABC/NBC/CNN: 10's of thosuands

FOX: 300-500,000

[ItsTime]

ABC/NBC/CNN: 10's of thosuands

FOX: 300-500,000

For real? lol I was using google news ticker. I didnt want to go to every site, but now I think I will.

[YumYum]

I've been doing a lot of praying lately, and G-d was kind enough to reveal to me that Glenn Beck is the Anti-Christ. You heard it here. I can't believe I get to witness the End Times.

[someperson]

Sounds like the acting troupe is performing as expected.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/515/apathy.png

[Sentient Void]

I'm not personally into the whole 'God' thing (to each their own - I won't knock it)... but Beck did just say 'We must stand for what we know is true... we must stand for our churches, for our temples, and for our MOSQUES'.

I was surprised about that - kinda threw me off.

[ItsTime]

ABC has over 100k

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/glenn-becks-political-restoring-honor-rally-turns-political/story?id=11500623

CNN says large

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/28/glenn.beck.rally/index.html?hpt=T1

msnbc 10s of thousands

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/08/28/4989729-scenes-from-the-national-mall

Fox thousands

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/28/thousands-expected-glenn-beck-rally-civil-rights-leaders-protest-event/

[payme_rick]

and for our MOSQUES'.




ha, lol'd my pants... that's funny... he's such a jokester...

[AGRP]

Beck sure is a good performer.


I hope people can see through it and question what he says.

If his declining ratings since medina are a good indicator, they are.

[tangent4ronpaul]

How many people are there?

My guess is big because I can't find it on MSM sites

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/glenn-becks-rally-feature-sarah-palin-coincides-civil/story?id=11491130

The National Park Service estimates about a 100,000 people will be in attendance. The DC Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency (HSEMA) is preparing for a crowd of between 100,000 and 200,000 for all rallies taking place in the nation's capital that day.

Al Sharpton's National Action Network will hold a "Reclaim the Dream" march, one of several marches commemorating King.

http://www.newser.com/story/99208/beck-america-returning-to-god.html

Attendance: No official crowd estimates, as per usual. The phase of choice in coverage seems to be "tens of thousands."

Read more: http://www.newser.com/story/99208/beck-america-returning-to-god.html#ixzz0xsFXrjws

=======
At the beginning Beck pointed out that the area next to the reflecting pool could hold about 30,000 ppl, and it was packed. He then pointed out 4 or 5 other areas where there was overflow and packed...

-t

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm surprised that the Palin/Beck fans on this forum haven't come to their defense.

They are probably there or at group viewing parties. They'll probably report in after it's over.

Just tuned in. Missed when Beck first came out. Did he start with "My name is Glenn Beck, and I'm an alcoholic?" :rolleyes:

[pacelli]

Wow. Just wow. Bagpipes of "amazing grace" and a sing-a-long. The illuminist symbols are slaying me.

This is a frightening day for our country.

[erowe1]

Beck did just say 'We must stand for what we know is true... we must stand for our churches, for our temples, and for our MOSQUES'.


That's a great example of what I was talking about. Thanks for pointing that out.

[AGRP]

Wow. Just wow. Bagpipes of "amazing grace" and a sing-a-long. The illuminist symbols are slaying me.

This is a frightening day for our country.

Bagpipes and amazing grace is a part of illuminati?

lol

[tangent4ronpaul]

whoops - was way off there...

We are humbled that you are here," he said. "The reflecting pool holds about 200,000 people. This field back here holds about 250- to 300,000 people. They are not only full here, they're full in that field, they're full behind me, and they are now across the street approaching the Washington Monument."

[Sentient Void]

I don't know why there is so much hate, he isn't saying anything bad, just uniting people. And masonic symbols? Give me a break, some of the most honorable men like our founding fathers were masons, it isn't an evil institution.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it. Even if you don't agree with him.

Apart from all the talk about God, the praise for Lincoln, and Sarah Palin's utterly ridiculous jingoism and overall appearance, Beck hasn't been completely retarded. I haven't recalled him saying anything that is anti-liberty at least. Then again, I haven't been watching the whole thing.

I'd like to know exactly what Beck's position on the 'mosque' in NYC is, anyways. See if he actually supports property rights or govt usurpation.

[AGRP]

I don't know why there is so much hate, he isn't saying anything bad, just uniting people. And masonic symbols? Give me a break, some of the most honorable men like our founding fathers were masons, it isn't an evil institution.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it. Even if you don't agree with him.

I dont understand either and i dont trust beck.

I enjoy anyday when god is worshiped rather than the state.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

To me, the goal of this event seems to be to make the tea party and liberty toxic. Beck, Palin, and the rest look like a bunch of sappy Bush saluting goofballs. Anyone remotely independent or moderately left will take one look at it and say, "Screw it, I'm sticking with Obama if that's the alternative."

[BlackSand]

Its corny. But I didnt really heard him say anything controversial. But I did tune in late, and left early. What has he done deserve so much hate?

One of the things I dont like about politics today is that only conservatives talk about God. It gives the impression that conservatives think God is on their side. If liberals talked about God, it wouldnt bother me so much. But since they dont...it makes me uncomfortable that conservatives do.

I also dont think Beck understands the fire hes igniting. It is very easy to radicalize those that believe in God. He always talks about not killing, and respecting and all that stuff...but hes still radicalizing imho.

[payme_rick]

I'd like to know exactly what Beck's position on the 'mosque' in NYC is, anyways.


that's one of the reasons I've tuned into his show at work a little lately... to see where he is on big issues just incase I run into one of his worshipers I can already know where they're at on the subject.... Pat Gray is a "find something illegal about it and stop it"... I don't think Stu/Stew/Stoo/Stu is pro-Mosque, but I haven't heard Beck address it straight-up...

I'd say he wouldn't shed a tear or raise much hell if the government were to go anti-mosque... he's serious about 9/11: Medina...

[DirtMcGirt]

Albert Pujols is now on stage.

Only good part of the rally.

GO ALBERT!
http://www.sportsbettingchamp.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/albert-pujols.jpg


What did Albert and Tony Larussa talk about... For anyone who doesn't know Albert has a very successful charity foundation as well as being arguably the best hitter ever...

http://www.pujolsfamilyfoundation.org/

[HOLLYWOOD]

Bag Pipes & Beck Crying again... Move to HOLLYWOOD Glenn, great script!

WTF?Give Praise... "Lord, From Baghdad to Kandahar... carry a big stick at the reflecting pool... Lord bless Glenn Beck for what he's done and Sarah Palin..." :rolleyes:

This is getting frigin ridiculous... "God Bless, Goodnight... trailer Evangelical "Collection Basket" music.

http://www.brightestyoungthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/faith1eh3.jpg

[erowe1]

I dont understand either and i dont trust beck.

I enjoy anyday when god is worshiped rather than the state.

I'm not watching. But is that really what's happening?

It kind of sounds to me, both from what people are saying here, and from the ways I heard Beck talk about it in the weeks leading up to this, like when you look behind the curtain of this vague unifying ecumenical god that Beck is worshiping, you'll see the state there. What else does it mean when he selects the Lincoln memorial as the place of worship and calls it hallowed ground? If that's what's happening, then the god-talk isn't some silver lining, it's an insidious poison that makes this worse than it would be if they really were just worshiping the state overtly.

[someperson]

When it comes to dealing with media personalities, apathy is the way. If you allow yourself to become emotionally invested in these characters, you lose. It is akin to theatre; the performers seek to evoke a response from the audience. It matters not whether you love or hate any given character, as long as you respond.

A silent audience is failure. A silent audience is death. Please remember this ;)

[lucius]

Fuck Glen Beck from behind with the ice-pick...how many times do you have to be burned by this controlled corporate gatekeeper?

[ClayTrainor]

When it comes to dealing with media personalities, apathy is the way. If you allow yourself to become emotionally invested in these characters, you lose. It is akin to theatre; the performers seek to evoke a response from the audience. It matters not whether you love or hate any given character, as long as you respond. A silent audience is death. Please remember this.

Well said!

I really appreciate your presence on this board. I just had to say it. :)

[AuH20]

I don't know why there is so much hate, he isn't saying anything bad, just uniting people. And masonic symbols? Give me a break, some of the most honorable men like our founding fathers were masons, it isn't an evil institution.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it. Even if you don't agree with him.

I agree though I'm not thrilled with his fascination with MLK.

[Son of Detroit]

What did Albert and Tony Larussa talk about... For anyone who doesn't know Albert has a very successful charity foundation as well as being arguably the best hitter ever...

http://www.pujolsfamilyfoundation.org/

La Russa pretty much just introduced Albert. Albert talked about his foundation and how important charity and faith are to him.

[TNforPaul45]

Jo Dee Messina is Yelling at the crowd now...or is that supposed to be singing?

[payme_rick]

Jo Dee Messina is Yelling at the crowd now...or is that supposed to be singing?

Ugh, not that annoying, ugly woman... wonder how many times she had to suck tim mcgraw's member to get a gig...

[thehunter]

So why can't we get a rally together?:confused:

[thehunter]

Ugh, not that annoying, ugly woman... wonder how many times she had to suck tim mcgraw's member to get a gig...

It's one thing to attack a rally for its views, but are the personal attacks called for?

[payme_rick]

So why can't we get a rally together?:confused:


good question... I have thought about it a little, but not enough to put it in writing...

[AGRP]

I'm not watching. But is that really what's happening?

It kind of sounds to me, both from what people are saying here, and from the ways I heard Beck talk about it in the weeks leading up to this, like when you look behind the curtain of this vague unifying ecumenical god that Beck is worshiping, you'll see the state there. What else does it mean when he selects the Lincoln memorial as the place of worship and calls it hallowed ground? If that's what's happening, then the god-talk isn't some silver lining, it's an insidious poison that makes this worse than it would be if they really were just worshiping the state overtly.

I understand that too.

But, also the overt tone is god and that is what will be taken away from the statist media. I didnt like many parts of the speech. I hated like the part where he said to pledge 10% of your income to your church. It tarnished the entire speech and i somehow believe he was told that by church groups. Im reminded how alex jones says the church is in a lot of ways the state itself since they team up with the state in many ways (what you touched on).

Also, there wasnt a lot of discussion about "restoring" OTHER than god. Maybe i tuned in late.

But, the take away here for me is that the statist media will HATE what went on today and thats a great day if you ask me.

[erowe1]

I don't know why there is so much hate, he isn't saying anything bad, just uniting people.

I guess part of where I differ from you is in how I perceive the goal of uniting people. You apparently see it as good. I'm more suspicious.

When people are free they don't naturally unite, especially on matters of religion. When I see a movement that revolves around getting free people who would naturally disperse from one another to unite instead, it looks fishy to me. I put one-world religion in a similar category to one-world currency, and one-world government.

How fitting that this rally to unite people would put forth as its hero the uniter par excellence, Lincoln.

[payme_rick]

It's one thing to attack a rally for its views, but are the personal attacks called for?


when it comes to that crap they're pumping out of Nashville, abosofuckinglutely!

[someperson]

Well said!

I really appreciate your presence on this board. I just had to say it. :)
Thanks Clay! It means a lot coming from you. Much respect :)

[BlackSand]

So the general gist of why everyone here hates him is...

He's Christian and proud of it?

I want a better reason to hate him...

[clarity]

Glenn Beck is a follower of a false prophet and is shepherding a large group of God's people right over a cliff.

[erowe1]

So the general gist of why everyone here hates him is...

He's Christian and proud of it?

I want a better reason to hate him...

Beck's a Mormon. And apparently not all that proud of it, since he wants all the non-Mormons to think he's the same thing they are, whatever it may be.

I wonder if in this entire rally that's all about faith he mentioned what his own faith is. My guess is no. I'll respect him just a little more if I'm wrong.

[payme_rick]

I want a better reason to hate him...


because he's fake... good points on a lot of issues, but he's fake...

he wants to french-kiss Rick Perry, too!

[BlackSand]

Im mormon. So your logic isnt really working on me.

He wants to unite people behind God. Not a specific religion. Hes not advertising Mormonism. He just wants people to believe in God. I DONT have an issue with that. Now if you say hes using God for political gain...then Id understand your hate. Or if he was trying to convert his mass following to mormonism, because its the religion he believes in...Id be ESPECIALLY uncomfortable with that.

And what do you mean fake?

And I think he turned his back on Rick Perry.

[payme_rick]

And what do you mean fake?

And I think he turned his back on Rick Perry.

Obviously if a fan of his thinks he turned his back on Rick Perry, the "fake" is working...

[payme_rick]

To answer the other part about God and Beck etc..., most of us don't like mixing church and politics... I'm Christian, I pray, but I check it at the door with politics...

[AuH20]

So the general gist of why everyone here hates him is...

He's Christian and proud of it?

I want a better reason to hate him...

Statists and the general power structure hate his guts. He can bloviate about God and MLK as long as he wants, if he continues to smash these coldblooded bastards on a daily basis. Beck, Jones, Church and Napolitano all in their own little way chip away at the empire's lies.

[TNforPaul45]

It's one thing to attack a rally for its views, but are the personal attacks called for?

It's not a personal attack, it's fact.

9 out of 10 Chiropractors agree that empirical data shows that Jo Dee Messina is both Ugly and Annoying, with a moderating factor of stupidity affecting both dependent variables.

[AGRP]

People are analyzing this waaaaay too much.

Beck is not ron paul. Hes not mlk. Hes media.

Hes not the one who is taking over the republican party.

Its us! Were putting the boots on the ground. (C4L)

[clarity]

I think Glenn Beck wants to unite us under Ba'al, not God.

[TNforPaul45]

I think Glenn Beck wants to unite us under Ba'al, not God.

Where is Teal'c when you need him?

[payme_rick]

It's not a personal attack, it's fact.

9 out of 10 Chiropractors agree that empirical data shows that Jo Dee Messina is both Ugly and Annoying, with a moderating factor of stupidity affecting both dependent variables.

I don't know what's funnier, the fact that a study was done on it, or that they used chiropractors for the study ha... good one...

[sofia]

So the general gist of why everyone here hates him is...

He's Christian and proud of it?

I want a better reason to hate him...

i hate him because he is a neo-con warmongering Israeli owned FAKE who is infiltrating the right-libertarian faction in order to mislead us....

He is a LIAR....

he NEVER supports TRUE liberty candidates.....he helped Rick Perry and John McCain immensely...

He ignored Rand ..ignored Schiff...ignored Hostettler......and he ridicules Ron Paul....


and his "Christianity" is an act....true Christians dnt wear it on their sleeve constantly....Beck is a swaggert

[erowe1]

Im mormon. So your logic isnt really working on me.

Why not?


He wants to unite people behind God. Not a specific religion. Hes not advertising Mormonism. He just wants people to believe in God. I DONT have an issue with that.
I don't know enough about Mormonism to understand how a Mormon can believe that it's possible for people who aren't Mormons to unite with Mormons behind God without converting to Mormonism. If there's a belief in Mormonism that accommodates that, then I suppose you would quite naturally approve. But many faiths that include belief in God are exclusivist by nature, and adherents to those faiths can't pretend to be united behind God with those of different faiths. And to be honest, I guess I don't even see what the point of this ecumenical "uniting behind God" is, what it's supposed to look like, and why it's supposed to be a good thing.

Like I said above, any effort to unite diverse people as a supposed end unto itself always makes me suspicious.



Now if you say hes using God for political gain...then Id understand your hate. Or if he was trying to convert his mass following to mormonism, because its the religion he believes in...Id be ESPECIALLY uncomfortable with that.


I'm not sure exactly what his game is, but whatever it is, it's definitely political.

I'd actually be much more appreciative of what he's doing if he did try to convert them to Mormonism.

[BlackSand]

YouTube - Glenn Beck Says Rick Perry Is Not What He Seems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MnL8k7kdI)

How Glenn Beck feels about Rick Perry. I still dont understand how hes fake. I do think hes honest. Hes a lot of things, but I do think hes honest.

@payme_rick THAT I understand. And Im kind of in the same boat. I dont like mixing religion and God. It makes me uncomfortable. Government and political hacks will always hijack the message of God. Separation of church and state was to protect the churchs as much as it was to protect the state.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'm kinda surprised that people are surprised there is not much 3VOL here for a media shill who called us "terrorists", sabotaged Medina, and generally exudes a diet of "honey, honey, poison" I mean really, these boards have been host to TONS of Beck back and forth... and people act surprised that it continues :confused:


So why can't we get a rally together?:confused:

We can, and have, just not on a scale that can be bought with Koch, Murdoch support...

[AGRP]

I still dont understand how hes fake. I do think hes honest. Hes a lot of things, but I do think hes honest.


Were you around during the medina fiasco?

[AuH20]

Oh boy. The kossacks are on a roll.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/28/896932/-Dear-Mr-Beck:-Let-me-tell-you-about-White-Privilege

[payme_rick]

YouTube - Glenn Beck Says Rick Perry Is Not What He Seems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MnL8k7kdI)

How Glenn Beck feels about Rick Perry. I still dont understand how hes fake. I do think hes honest. Hes a lot of things, but I do think hes honest.

@payme_rick THAT I understand. And Im kind of in the same boat. I dont like mixing religion and God. It makes me uncomfortable. Government and political hacks will always hijack the message of God. Separation of church and state was to protect the churchs as much as it was to protect the state.

k, the video says 2-8... on 2-11 Beck said he wanted to french-kiss Rick Perry when he helped to derail Debra Medina's run in the primaries, closing the door on any chance Perry could lose the republican nomination...

[BlackSand]

@Erowe 1 Now youre really confusing me. Youd be okay if he was trying to convert his mass following to his religion? Im uncomfortable with that because I dont want to ask someone at my church and ask why hes mormon, and his answer is "Glenn Beck." I also dont want to ask someone at my church what their political views are and hear "Glenn Beck because hes inspired by God."

Im much more comfortable with him helping people get behind a UNIVERSAL truth. There is a God. yes. Mormons believe that they are the only true church. BUT we dont condemn those that believe in other religions. There is truth in all churches. Im glad hes trying to bring God back into peoples lives. but Id be comfortable if he made it about mormonism. If youre interested in mormonism, listen to Thomas Monson, not Glenn Beck.


And as far as the people hes helped in the past, and the people hes condemned in the past. Hes pulled a 360. He is MOVING towards libertarianism. But is not there yet. hes sort of a neo libertarian.

And if you hate him because hes a neocon. hes no more a neocon than any other pundit. So I dont understand why you focus on him so much.

[tangent4ronpaul]

We can, and have, just not on a scale that can be bought with Koch, Murdoch support...

What's the largest rally we've pulled together? It looks like Beck got 100,000 ppl.

He also raised 5.5M, or 55,000 individual $10 donations. I don't think we've done that well with the money bombs ever...

-t

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't know enough about Mormonism to understand how a Mormon can believe that it's possible for people who aren't Mormons to unite with Mormons behind God without converting to Mormonism.

His model for this event is AA. It's about looking towards a higher power for strength, comfort, and encouragement (and in this case, Beck also wants the higher power to act). It's not about any specific religion.

[Aratus]

Bag Pipes & Beck Crying again...

http://www.brightestyoungthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/faith1eh3.jpg


i have to again totally respect what rep. ron paul recently
logically said about NYC, ground zero and legal contracts!

[erowe1]

His model for this event is AA. It's about looking towards a higher power for strength, comfort, and encouragement (and in this case, Beck also wants the higher power to act). It's not about any specific religion.

Good point. I forgot about the AA influence on him.

But I think he's using that model in an innovative way that it's not really good for. In the case of AA, the unifying factor that people of different faiths share is getting sober. That's the purpose they all have that brings them together. It's not to unify behind a vague unifying god as an end unto itself.

I tend to think that there's also another nonreligious unifying factor here, and that it's a political one. I'd rather Beck just say so, rather than suppress that by saying, "This isn't about politics." It still wouldn't be the kind of rally I would get into, but I could at least feel like it's clear what it's about. And for all my aversion to this vague ecumenical getting behind god idea, I'm all for joining with people of different faiths to get behind a political agenda we share, while being perfectly honest about our religious differences and not downplaying their importance in the process.

[Mini-Me]

Good point. I forgot about the AA influence on him.

But I think he's using that model in an innovative way that it's not really good for. In the case of AA, the unifying factor that people of different faiths share is getting sober. That's the purpose they all have that brings them together. It's not to unify behind a vague unifying god as an end unto itself.

I tend to think that there's also another nonreligious unifying factor here, and that it's a political one. I'd rather Beck just say so, rather than suppress that by saying, "This isn't about politics." It still wouldn't be the kind of rally I would get into, but I could at least feel like it's clear what it's about. And for all my aversion to this vague ecumenical getting behind god idea, I'm all for joining with people of different faiths to get behind a political agenda we share, while being perfectly honest about our religious differences and not downplaying their importance in the process.

I know what you mean. It's like he's getting everyone all up in an emotional and religious fervor to dull their critical thinking for some yet-to-be-revealed hidden purpose. The whole "unity for unity's sake with no political agenda" pretense is totally transparent, given that it's an obviously right-wing partisan rally. There's just something creepy and ominous about it.

[JK/SEA]

I know what you mean. It's like he's getting everyone all up in an emotional and religious fervor for some yet-to-be-revealed hidden purpose. There's just something creepy about it.

Yep...definite agenda. He didn't put this little show on for nothing. Something is up for sure.

[Mini-Me]

Yep...definite agenda. He didn't put this little show on for nothing. Something is up for sure.

It creeps me the hell out. You know what I think of when I hear, "U-S-A!" chants? I think of this:

At this moment the entire group of people broke into a deep, slow, rhythmical chant of "B-B! . . . B-B! . . . B-B!" over and over again, very slowly, with a long pause between the first "B" and the second -- a heavy, murmurous sound, somehow curiously savage, in the background of which one seemed to hear the stamp of naked feet and the throbbing of tom-toms. For perhaps as much as thirty seconds they kept it up. It was a refrain that was often heard in moments of overwhelming emotion. Partly it was a sort of hymn to the wisdom and majesty of Big Brother, but still more it was an act of self-hypnosis, a deliberate drowning of consciousness by means of rhythmic noise. Winston's entrails seemed to grow cold. In the Two Minutes Hate he could not help sharing in the general delirium, but this subhuman chanting of "B-B! . . . B-B!" always filled him with horror. Of course he chanted with the rest: it was impossible to do otherwise. To dissemble your feelings, to control your face, to do what everyone else was doing, was an instinctive reaction. But there was a space of a couple of seconds during which the expression in his eyes might conceivably have betrayed him.

[BlackSand]

Beck ends critical thinking. Is that why you hate him? I somewhat understand that. Although because of him, books like Atlas shrugged are best sellers again...And he constantly tells people to go to the library and learn...

[erowe1]

@Erowe 1 Now youre really confusing me. Youd be okay if he was trying to convert his mass following to his religion? Im uncomfortable with that because I dont want to ask someone at my church and ask why hes mormon, and his answer is "Glenn Beck." I also dont want to ask someone at my church what their political views are and hear "Glenn Beck because hes inspired by God."


I can see that. It seems like you want him to be either political or religious, but not both.

I feel kind of the same way, only I would add to that that if he does want to be both, then when he plays the religious angle, it should be an overtly Mormon one, not some all-inclusive thing.

If the so-called god that he's trying to bring into people's lives is just whatever they already believe in anyway, then he's not doing anything. So, I don't think that his real purpose with this rally is any kind of spiritual awakening, it's to manipulate the way people look at their own spiritual lives and the spiritual lives of everyone else in this Glen Beck movement, and to minimize whatever perceptions they might have about being different, and to maximize their perception of being the same. He's trying to make sure that, whenever he talks about something he supports, he has this "God" trump card that will work on as many people as possible, no matter what they believe.

[payme_rick]

Beck ends critical thinking. Is that why you hate him? I somewhat understand that. Although because of him, books like Atlas shrugged are best sellers again...And he constantly tells people to go to the library and learn...

I'm not saying he hasn't done good, I've always insisted he has done good, but those people in washington with him right now worship the guy and will do what he suggests is the right thing, not what they think is the right thing and he knows it...

[Aratus]

dear sweet glenn beck = rush!Limbaugh*LITE ...? i gonzo opine

[ronpaulhawaii]

What's the largest rally we've pulled together? It looks like Beck got 100,000 ppl.

He also raised 5.5M, or 55,000 individual $10 donations. I don't think we've done that well with the money bombs ever...

-t

We'd get up to around 12k.

This ain't just "Beck" getting them together...

We raised over 6 million at the first revived "Tea Party" 12/16/07

Here is an overhead pic of today that was just on FB

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs207.ash2/47020_1345653089926_1489234237_30731983_1842639_n. jpg

It creeps me out to see the word "hate" being used frivolously...

[TNforPaul45]

YouTube - Glenn Beck Says Rick Perry Is Not What He Seems (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MnL8k7kdI)

How Glenn Beck feels about Rick Perry. I still dont understand how hes fake. I do think hes honest. Hes a lot of things, but I do think hes honest.

@payme_rick THAT I understand. And Im kind of in the same boat. I dont like mixing religion and God. It makes me uncomfortable. Government and political hacks will always hijack the message of God. Separation of church and state was to protect the churchs as much as it was to protect the state.

BlackSand, it's a technique called leading. Mixing a little bit of truth in with a bigger lie helps people to swallow it better. Even more effective if you mix in some religious emotion with it. In the vast majority of people, emotional reaction helps to validate statements, whether the statements are true or false.

Glenn Beck bashes big government, says rick perry is bad (but then later says he's good, as was stated above), he rails on a few things that we all fervently believe. Then,.....he says that the GOP is the answer. He sits there and says that putting an R or D back in control wont help.......which we all agree,.......but then marches out Sarah Palin and other Neocon controlled assets.

And don't forget he goes to ball games with Geraldo and Bill Oreilly and laughs at everyone they've foolded

http://i35.tinypic.com/2cenbph.jpg

This is what we are talking about. He is Sincere only in his effort to be insincere.

[Aratus]

.


--------------sarah palin is not a d.c creature...!
-------how will the WaPo spin this all...?
dare i look or ask again this Q...!


.

[Deborah K]

I can see that. It seems like you want him to be either political or religious, but not both.

I feel kind of the same way, only I would add to that that if he does want to be both, then when he plays the religious angle, it should be an overtly Mormon one, not some all-inclusive thing.

If the so-called god that he's trying to bring into people's lives is just whatever they already believe in anyway, then he's not doing anything. So, I don't think that his real purpose with this rally is any kind of spiritual awakening, it's to manipulate the way people look at their own spiritual lives and the spiritual lives of everyone else in this Glen Beck movement, and to minimize whatever perceptions they might have about being different, and to maximize their perception of being the same. He's trying to make sure that, whenever he talks about something he supports, he has this "God" trump card that will work on as many people as possible, no matter what they believe.

I have a theory. I think he is laying the groundwork to become a religious leader of sorts. I think he sees his days as a TV commentator and radio talk show host coming to an end for various reasons. One being that he can't say what he really wants to say like he'd be able to with his own ministry. The other being that the opposition to him has been fairly successful with their boycott projects.

He seems sincere in his quest to learn about the impact that religion had on the founding. He believes that the country was founded by divine inspiration (I believe that as well). He seems to want to get back to that principle because he believes that prayer, especially en masse, is impactful and effective. Non-religious people will NEVER understand this. But those of us who have a relationship with God understand it completely.

[amonasro]

Beck ends critical thinking. Is that why you hate him? I somewhat understand that. Although because of him, books like Atlas shrugged are best sellers again...And he constantly tells people to go to the library and learn...

We hate him because 2/3 of the time he's an awesome, libertarian minded cheerleader for conservative politics, and 1/3 of the time he's a warmongering neocon who works for the establishment. That and he's either sunk or ignored multiple liberty candidates' campaigns. And he called Ron Paul supporters terrorists. We hate him because when he shows his true colors, he does an immense amount of damage to the real liberty movement.

If/when Ron runs in 2012, will Beck support him? If your answer is yes, you have a lot to learn :)

[Brian4Liberty]

Good point. I forgot about the AA influence on him.

But I think he's using that model in an innovative way that it's not really good for. In the case of AA, the unifying factor that people of different faiths share is getting sober. That's the purpose they all have that brings them together. It's not to unify behind a vague unifying god as an end unto itself.

I tend to think that there's also another nonreligious unifying factor here, and that it's a political one. I'd rather Beck just say so, rather than suppress that by saying, "This isn't about politics." It still wouldn't be the kind of rally I would get into, but I could at least feel like it's clear what it's about. And for all my aversion to this vague ecumenical getting behind god idea, I'm all for joining with people of different faiths to get behind a political agenda we share, while being perfectly honest about our religious differences and not downplaying their importance in the process.

My guess is that he sees it as "a nation has to believe or be faithful in God to be successful." He is obsessed with the old Testament stories about Israel's ups and downs depending upon how "godly" they were at the time. The same old thing that some charlatans have been pushing forever: "this or that bad thing happened because we lost our way with God." It's nondenominational in Beck's eyes as long as you are agreeing that it's the God of Abraham that you are reaching out to, thus he includes Mormons, Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Muslims.

It is an attempt to merge Church and State to a certain extent. Due to factional differences, the end result is usually something like adding "under God" to a pledge or "In God We Trust" to money. This compromise is evident in the founding documents, where we have references to a nondenominational God. (Singular, as it is pretty much in reference to the God of Abraham).

As for people who see something nefarious or dangerous about it, if it goes wrong, a concern might be that it pretty much turns into a "war on non-believers"...the road to hell is paved with good intentions...


I have a theory. I think he is laying the groundwork to become a religious leader of sorts. I think he sees his days as a TV commentator and radio talk show host coming to an end for various reasons. One being that he can't say what he really wants to say like he'd be able to with his own ministry.

Very possible. Many successful people have given one career up to pursue a religious career.

[pacelli]

he whole "unity for unity's sake with no political agenda" pretense is totally transparent, given that it's an obviously right-wing partisan rally. There's just something creepy and ominous about it.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2634771/2/istockphoto_2634771-hitting-a-nail-on-the-head.jpg

[BlackSand]

Oh im sure he will support Palin over RP anyday unless something unexpected happens and Palins does something that cant be covered up by political posturing. Any thats impossible. Everything can be covered by that.

[dude58677]

If Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, Lew Rockwell, Andrew Napilitano,Tom Woods, Trevor Lyman, Michael Boldin, and Matt Collins etc all spoke at the rally, I'd be impressed. The fact that they didn't speak sickens me. Our movement has been hijacked.:mad::mad::mad:

[specsaregood]

I have a theory. I think he is laying the groundwork to become a religious leader of sorts. I think he sees his days as a TV commentator and radio talk show host coming to an end for various reasons. One being that he can't say what he really wants to say like he'd be able to with his own ministry.

I could see that, he has that jimmy swaggart crying down pat. Plus there is the whole mormon prophecy about eventually the "constitution hanging by a thread" and how the mormons will be the people leading us back. So there ya have the religion + politics angle merged.

[rprprs]

<snip>... the take away here for me is that the statist media will HATE what went on today and thats a great day if you ask me.

The one and only positive to be garnered from this entire fiasco.

[BlackTerrel]

I'm not going to criticize anyone else's convictions on this. But I'm kind of intrigued and concerned by Beck's religious angle, and by how comfortable so many presumably non-Mormon Christian tea partiers are with it.

If my church made an announcement that they were going to be holding some kind of a joint prayer meeting with a Mormon church, not only would I not attend it, but I'd leave my church over it. My impression of most evangelicals only a decade ago would have been to expect the same. But now I see this new ecumenical movement Beck seems to be leading and I think I might be in a minority on that.

Of all the reasons to criticize Beck his religion is what you choose?

[erowe1]

Of all the reasons to criticize Beck his religion is what you choose?

Well, since the topic of this thread is a religious rally that he held today, why would I bring in anything else?

"I don't like this prayer meeting because of an unrelated incident several months ago."

[BlackSand]

Hes no advocating Mormonism. Hes advocating God. And if my (mormon) church said were getting together with the central christian church down the street (anti mormon, preach harshly against us in their meetings) to have a pro god party...I would go in a heart beat.

[pacelli]

Funny how he was promoting God but violated the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th, and 9th commandments within the first hour.

[BlackTerrel]

Well, since the topic of this thread is a religious rally that he held today, why would I bring in anything else?

"I don't like this prayer meeting because of an unrelated incident several months ago."

I haven't watched it but is Mormonism a part of this rally? I haven't seen anyone mention it but you.

[Deborah K]

Funny how he was promoting God but violated the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th, and 9th commandments within the first hour.

Care to elaborate? He violated the 4th commandment - honor thy mother and thy father?

[Mini-Me]

Funny how he was promoting God but violated the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th, and 9th commandments within the first hour.

I need to remember that most people here didn't grow up Catholic. When you mentioned the 9th, I was wondering for a second about whose wife he was coveting while he was up there. ;)

[Mini-Me]

Care to elaborate? He violated the 4th commandment - honor thy mother and thy father?

I think he meant the one about the Sabbath. The precise division of the Ten Commandments is kind of a denominational thing, I think...

[erowe1]

I haven't watched it but is Mormonism a part of this rally? I haven't seen anyone mention it but you.

It doesn't seem to be. And if you've read what I've written, that's precisely why I have a problem with it. I'd respect him more if he made his Mormonism a part of it and said so explicitly, unabashedly, and knowing that in doing so he would offend the non-Mormons there.

[Deborah K]

I need to remember that most people here didn't grow up Catholic. When you mentioned the 9th, I was wondering for a second about whose wife he was coveting while he was up there. ;)

Haha true! And for Catholics, the 4th commandment is about honoring our parents but it's the 5th commandment for protestants. :)

[BlackSand]

How did be break any of those commandments? Hes talking about the Abrahamic God. Which mormons believe in. I dont see any engraved images. I didnt hear him using the lord thy gods name in vein. Its saturday, not sunday. I cant remember what 8 and 9 are off the top of my head. But I think one of them is stealing, which I havent seen him do.

[erowe1]

Hes no advocating Mormonism. Hes advocating God. And if my (mormon) church said were getting together with the central christian church down the street (anti mormon, preach harshly against us in their meetings) to have a pro god party...I would go in a heart beat.

And again, I don't know enough about Mormonism to know if you're representative in that, or if it's in agreement with Mormon doctrine or not. But as I said, I'm pretty sure that not too long ago, very few evangelicals would have been on board with it. Obviously Beck has been somewhat successful in his recent mission to unite conservativish people in devotion to a vague god of all religions.

[BlackSand]

1 No other god
2 no graven image
3 name in vein
4 sabath day
5 honor father and mother
6 kill
7 adultery
8 steal
9 lie
10 covet

Thats how I know them

[Pericles]

I'm not saying he hasn't done good, I've always insisted he has done good, but those people in washington with him right now worship the guy and will do what he suggests is the right thing, not what they think is the right thing and he knows it...

We have to give him credit for getting about 1 million people to show up for something - which the tea party can only do with combines local efforts. The central question is can Beck learn from the history he professes to love? If he has stopped learning - that is it. If he can finally get his head around the damage Lincoln did to the Constitution, then there is hope.

[silentshout]

To me, the goal of this event seems to be to make the tea party and liberty toxic. Beck, Palin, and the rest look like a bunch of sappy Bush saluting goofballs. Anyone remotely independent or moderately left will take one look at it and say, "Screw it, I'm sticking with Obama if that's the alternative."

yep. As well as the god talk mixed up with the military and jingoism. (Although I am not religious, don't have a problem with religious people..whatever you are into is no big deal to me. However, mixing religion and military/nationalism gives me the creeps.)

[tangent4ronpaul]

WOW! - when I started this thread I thought it would get a few views and go into thread free fall.... Just WOW!

-t

[silentshout]

I understand that too.

But, also the overt tone is god and that is what will be taken away from the statist media. I didnt like many parts of the speech. I hated like the part where he said to pledge 10% of your income to your church. It tarnished the entire speech and i somehow believe he was told that by church groups. Im reminded how alex jones says the church is in a lot of ways the state itself since they team up with the state in many ways (what you touched on).

Also, there wasnt a lot of discussion about "restoring" OTHER than god. Maybe i tuned in late.

But, the take away here for me is that the statist media will HATE what went on today and thats a great day if you ask me.

Well, if you talk about God with a backdrop of restoring America and glorifying the military, that seems pretty statist, or at least confusing the two. Also, it basically says to anyone who doesn't believe (or those who do believe but choose not to attend a church), is that they aren't part of America. I guess that is the intention....

[silentshout]

I have a theory. I think he is laying the groundwork to become a religious leader of sorts. I think he sees his days as a TV commentator and radio talk show host coming to an end for various reasons. One being that he can't say what he really wants to say like he'd be able to with his own ministry. The other being that the opposition to him has been fairly successful with their boycott projects.

He seems sincere in his quest to learn about the impact that religion had on the founding. He believes that the country was founded by divine inspiration (I believe that as well). He seems to want to get back to that principle because he believes that prayer, especially en masse, is impactful and effective. Non-religious people will NEVER understand this. But those of us who have a relationship with God understand it completely.

Btw, you can believe in God and not be religious nor belong to a church. And prayer en masse seems to contradict the prayer in private thing, seems a bit like the Pharisees if you ask me.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Btw, you can believe in God and not be religious nor belong to a church. And prayer en masse seems to contradict the prayer in private thing, seems a bit like the Pharisees if you ask me.

Look up the gospel of St Thomas

-t

[thehighwaymanq]

One thing I must say: the set up was terrific. With him walking back and forth like his show, and being close to ground level with the people.

I love how this was set up both for a speaker and for the audience`

[Brian4Liberty]

The precise division of the Ten Commandments is kind of a denominational thing, I think...

Lol! Yeah, go directly to the source (Bible) and try to look up the ten commandments. Good luck numbering them.

[TNforPaul45]

If you are Christian and you want to get really technical about it, there are 12 Commandments now.

The King of Kings added 2 more.

[EDIT] Oh, and He eliminated thousands and thousands of stupid Jewish/Old Testament rules, which makes life a little easier.

[pacelli]

If you are Christian and you want to get really technical about it, there are 12 Commandments now.

The King of Kings added 2 more.

[EDIT] Oh, and He eliminated thousands and thousands of stupid Jewish/Old Testament rules, which makes life a little easier.

There are 759 statutes, judgments, and commandments in the old & new testaments. Count them up. There aren't thousands. There are more laws in your state's traffic code than the entire scripture.

PS- Matthew 4:4 disputes your opinion that God eliminated a single law from the old testament. Did you know that when Jesus spoke the words in Matthew 4:4, not one book of the new testament had been written?

[Deborah K]

Btw, you can believe in God and not be religious nor belong to a church. And prayer en masse seems to contradict the prayer in private thing, seems a bit like the Pharisees if you ask me.

Right. I believe in God and don't belong to a church. Prayer en masse does not contradict prayer in private. Both are good and both are needed. There's a passage in the bible that reads something like: where there are two or more gathered in my name, I am among you.

[puppetmaster]

I'm not going to criticize anyone else's convictions on this. But I'm kind of intrigued and concerned by Beck's religious angle, and by how comfortable so many presumably non-Mormon Christian tea partiers are with it.

If my church made an announcement that they were going to be holding some kind of a joint prayer meeting with a Mormon church, not only would I not attend it, but I'd leave my church over it. My impression of most evangelicals only a decade ago would have been to expect the same. But now I see this new ecumenical movement Beck seems to be leading and I think I might be in a minority on that.


not a big difference between evangelical Christians and the Mormons. I know the southern baptists used to hold meetings and call theses other religions "cults" but they are very similar. If you look into the Mormon religion you would see that they are Christians also.
It is the "my religion is better than yours BS" I am not a fan of organized religion but to each his own.

disclaimer: I was baptized Mormon, I have been to many baptist churches and several catholic....do not go to any of them now.

[BlackSand]

We are pretty dang off topic as it is...sooo...

I understand the mindset that puppetmaster talks about, cause I was there once. I was born mormon, became agnostic, then atheist, realized its stupid to be atheist and went back to being agnostic. And now Im back to being Mormon. And I dont want to be preachy or anything...even though I know thats exactly what Im doing. But how do you know what to believe when you can interpret everything in a 1000 ways? People use the bible to justify anarchy, fascism, socialism, theocracy and everything in between. Some say God is this and others that. Some say you are saved if only you have faith, others say that faith is acts, and you can only be saved by your acts? How do you come to your own conclusions, and know with any confidence that your beliefs are correct? Wouldnt God give us an organized religion to help us understand? Or is "Trying to do whats right to the best of my knowledge" good enough?

Not a rhetorical question.

[Deborah K]

We are pretty dang off topic as it is...sooo...

I understand the mindset that puppetmaster talks about, cause I was there once. I was born mormon, became agnostic, then atheist, realized its stupid to be atheist and went back to being agnostic. And now Im back to being Mormon. And I dont want to be preachy or anything...even though I know thats exactly what Im doing. But how do you know what to believe when you can interpret everything in a 1000 ways? People use the bible to justify anarchy, fascism, socialism, theocracy and everything in between. Some say God is this and others that. Some say you are saved if only you have faith, others say that faith is acts, and you can only be saved by your acts? How do you come to your own conclusions, and know with any confidence that your beliefs are correct? Wouldnt God give us an organized religion to help us understand? Or is "Trying to do whats right to the best of my knowledge" good enough?

Not a rhetorical question.

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

[YumYum]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

Well, its not as simple as that. Almost every religion condemns those that are not followers of like faith. Even Jesus, who I admire and respect, talked about Judgment Day. The problem with people of different religions is when they take it upon themselves to start judging and punishing others, instead of waiting on their Higher Power to do the killing for them.

[puppetmaster]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

What you say is harmless, and vastly different than the actions from the majority of religions and there followers.

I do not understand why people fight and kill over their religious beliefs if it is so "basic" as you say.

[Deborah K]

Well, its not as simple as that. Almost every religion condemns those that are not followers of like faith. Even Jesus, who I admire and respect, talked about Judgment Day. The problem with people of different religions is when they take it upon themselves to start judging and punishing others, instead of waiting on their Higher Power to do the killing for them.

Yes it is as simple as that. It is not for us to judge whose religion is right or wrong. That has more to do with the closed mindedness of humanity and less with a core belief in doing what is right - which is to love and be loveable.

[Southron]

Well, its not as simple as that. Almost every religion condemns those that are not followers of like faith. Even Jesus, who I admire and respect, talked about Judgment Day. The problem with people of different religions is when they take it upon themselves to start judging and punishing others, instead of waiting on their Higher Power to do the killing for them.

To some extent Christians must judge others who call themselves Christians. It is essential to preserve the church's integrity. Anyone who calls themselves a Christan is fair game imo.

Edit. Apologies for further thread derailment.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yes it is as simple as that. It is not for us to judge whose religion is right or wrong. That has more to do with the closed mindedness of humanity and less with a core belief in doing what is right - which is to love and be loveable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.[1]

Briefly put, in pantheism, "God is the whole"; in panentheism, "The whole is in God." This means that the Universe in the first formulation is practically the Whole itself, but in the second the universe and God are not ontologically equivalent. In panentheism, God is not necessarily viewed as the creator or demiurge, but the eternal animating force behind the universe, some versions positing the universe as nothing more than the manifest part of God. In some forms of panentheism, the cosmos exists within God, who in turn "pervades" or is "in" the cosmos. While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and some forms hold that the universe is contained within God.[2] Hinduism is highly characterized by Panentheism and Pantheism[3].

You might also look at the spiritual teachings of Steven Gaskin and the Farm in Summersville TN, that basically say all religions have merit and basically teach the same things.

-t

[YumYum]

To some extent Christians must judge others who call themselves Christians. It is essential to preserve the church's integrity. Anyone who calls themselves a Christan is fair game imo.

Edit. Apologies for further thread derailment.

I don't get that from anything that Jesus taught. Jesus condemned the rich and the Jewish leaders. He also lost it and overturned the moneychangers tables. But he gave a command to his followers to "love one another", and the problem that Christians get into is when they start claiming that they are the "true" followers of Christ. So, a person can be judged as not being Christian, not necessarily because they commit gross sins such as adultery or murder, but just because they believe differently from the mainstream teachings of Christendom.

Getting back to Beck, does he as a Mormon, accept all faiths as being the right way to G-d and salvation? Because if he does, then he is going against the teachings of the Mormon faith, which is according to them, " the true faith".

My point: trying to unite religions is either hypocritical or a political/religious stunt to gain everyone's approval.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Right. I believe in God and don't belong to a church. Prayer en masse does not contradict prayer in private. Both are good and both are needed. There's a passage in the bible that reads something like: where there are two or more gathered in my name, I am among you.

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

[puppetmaster]

I don't get that from anything that Jesus taught. Jesus condemned the rich and the Jewish leaders. He also lost it and overturned the moneychangers tables. But he gave a command to his followers to "love one another", and the problem that Christians get into is when they start claiming that they are the "true" followers of Christ. So, a person can be judged as not being Christian, not necessarily because they commit gross sins such as adultery or murder, but just because they believe differently from the mainstream teachings of Christendom.

Getting back to Beck, does he as a Mormon, accept all faiths as being the right way to G-d and salvation? Because if he does, then he is going against the teachings of the Mormon faith, which is according to them, " the true faith".

My point: trying to unite religions is either hypocritical or a political/religious stunt to gain everyone's approval.

All religions are the "True Faith" in their opinions.....

thats the problem.....Beck is part of that problem.....

[YumYum]

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

Jesus said the same thing in the Book of John. The Samaritan woman told Jesus: " 'Sir, I perceive you are a prophet. Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship.' Jesus said to her: 'Believe me, woman. The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you people worship the Father'."

John 4: 20-23

He went on to say: "...the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him'."

[BlackSand]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

*facepalm* sorry, I wasnt clear. I was talking about puppetmaster who had posted before me. I didnt call god a puppet master. My bad. haha

And I am mormon, so I feel I understand better where Beck is coming from. As far as I know, hes never really talked in depth about Mormon doctrine. But I can tell you that what he did at that rally wouldnt be condemned by our church (unless it was done for political purposes, which some of you would say is true).

But my church often says "There is truth in all religion, they just dont have the full restoration of the truth." Which means this to me. If someone has a choice of being Catholic, or atheist, I would encourage them to be catholic. Because that way they could still get in touch with their spiritual side, and the catholic religion still teaches good things.

[YumYum]

All religions are the "True Faith" in their opinions.....

thats the problem.....Beck is part of that problem.....

A question I have, and maybe someone on this forum who is a Mormon can answer, is how does the Mormon Church feel about Glenn Beck patronizing other religions, which, according to the Mormons, are "false"?

[BlackSand]

A question I have, and maybe someone on this forum who is a Mormon can answer, is how does the Mormon Church feel about Glenn Beck patronizing other religions, which, according to the Mormons, are "false"?

Love it. We dont want to be the religion that condemns everyone if they dont follow our beliefs absolutely. We try to be as kind as possible, and as a whole, treat all religions with respect.

I dont even like that you used "false". All religions have truth to varying degrees. To call a religion 'false' seems to condemn everything they do and believe.

[YumYum]

Love it. We dont want to be the religion that condemns everyone if they dont follow our beliefs absolutely. We try to be as kind as possible, and as a whole, treat all religions with respect.

I dont even like that you used "False". All religions have truth to varying degrees. To call a religion 'false' seems to condemn everything they do.

So, what you are saying is that I don't have to become a Mormon to gain everlasting salvation and have G-d's approval?

[BlackSand]

So, what you are saying is that I don't have to become a Mormon to gain everlasting salvation and have G-d's approval?

Actually a really complicated issue. We believe that people are judged by the knowledge that they have. So a person that never learned about Christ cant be condemned for not following him. So I cant really judge whether someone can be saved or not cause I dont know what they know, or the chances theyve had at expanding their knowledge of God, or the times theyve felt the spirit and ignored it...etc. Its very individual. Only God knows intentions and knowledge and all that stuff.

Edit: I feel like I didnt do a good job at capturing the whole picture. So Im also going to add this. Third Article of Faith: We believe that through the atonement of Jesus Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the principles and ordinances thereof. (Quoted from memory, so the exact phrasing might be off). The ordinances spoken of are baptism by immersion, a temple ordinance, being sealed for time and all eternity with your spouse. I think those are the big three. If you want to understand this better then youre going to have to go to the church site (Mormon.org) and look up baptisms for the dead. That would probably explain the concept pretty well.

This has been a non profit advertisement. :p

[erowe1]

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

The Gospel of Thomas didn't "get pulled from the Bible." It was written in the 2nd century and was accepted as Scripture by a gnostic offshoot of Christianity that didn't have a robust and coherent enough theology to be able to survive. So those who accepted it as Scripture died off in short order with no converts. And outside their circles, Christians never accepted it as Scripture to begin with, so when they rejected it, they were just rejecting what they had always rejected, they weren't removing it from some status as Scripture that it at one time had for them.

It's also not a very good source for authentic sayings of Jesus. The only historically reliable sayings in it are the ones that are paralleled in the much earlier gospels that you can still read in a New Testament today. And even for those sayings, Thomas doesn't provide an independent source for them, but only got them by copying them from those gospels, as has been shown by instances where Thomas includes elements that can be attributed to the redactional work of those earlier gospel's authors.

[tangent4ronpaul]

The Gospel of Thomas didn't "get pulled from the Bible." It was written in the 2nd century and was accepted as Scripture by a gnostic offshoot of Christianity that didn't have a robust and coherent enough theology to be able to survive. So those who accepted it as Scripture died off in short order with no converts. And outside their circles, Christians never accepted it as Scripture to begin with, so when they rejected it, they were just rejecting what they had always rejected, they weren't removing it from some status as Scripture that it at one time had for them.

It's also not a very good source for authentic sayings of Jesus. The only historically reliable sayings in it are the ones that are paralleled in the much earlier gospels that you can still read in a New Testament today. And even for those sayings, Thomas doesn't provide an independent source for them, but only got them by copying them from those gospels, as has been shown by instances where Thomas includes elements that can be attributed to the redactional work of those earlier gospel's authors.

don't think so - have a source?

-t

[erowe1]

don't think so - have a source?

-t

Sure. You can read the section on the Gospel of Thomas in volume 1 of John Maier's series of books on the historical Jesus, A Marginal Jew. If you can get ahold of Christopher Tuckett's article, “Thomas and the Synoptics,” Novum Testamentum 30 (1988), that would be even better.

[silentshout]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

The harm doesn't come from that..it comes when the religion and government work together to deny rights to either people who don't believe in the same thing or have the "wrong" lifestyle.

[silentshout]

I get confused between this one and panendeism. I find philosophies like this fascinating, though.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.[1]

Briefly put, in pantheism, "God is the whole"; in panentheism, "The whole is in God." This means that the Universe in the first formulation is practically the Whole itself, but in the second the universe and God are not ontologically equivalent. In panentheism, God is not necessarily viewed as the creator or demiurge, but the eternal animating force behind the universe, some versions positing the universe as nothing more than the manifest part of God. In some forms of panentheism, the cosmos exists within God, who in turn "pervades" or is "in" the cosmos. While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and some forms hold that the universe is contained within God.[2] Hinduism is highly characterized by Panentheism and Pantheism[3].

You might also look at the spiritual teachings of Steven Gaskin and the Farm in Summersville TN, that basically say all religions have merit and basically teach the same things.

-t